flyinion
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I swear I read this somewhere a few weeks ago and I can not find the info now. What is the general recommendation on how full to fill a res? I have maybe 1/4 inch of space at the top right now of air. Should I top this off all the way or leave it?
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ty_ger07
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/07 13:55:51
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I've left air ("expansion room"), I have topped it off to the very top; I have noticed absolutely no difference and no leaks or alarming observations either way.
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Cool GTX
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/07 14:33:59
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I usually have about 1 inch air gap at top ... mostly so I do not over fill & spill
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/07 15:40:25
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Ok thanks guys. I'll probably leave it for now then.
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Cool GTX
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/07 15:45:00
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Some have even built custom loops with No reservoir ... its painful to fill those designs Enjoy your new build
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DEJ915
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/07 18:03:04
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You just need the level high enough that air bubbles don't get sucked into the loop. As long as you don't have that the level is high enough.
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/07 18:50:19
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Maybe it was a looks thing I was reading then. I might still top it a bit. Wasn't sure if filling it completely could cause an issue with heating and cooling expansion.
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/11 11:36:30
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So I topped it up a bit. There's still a very small gap when the system is off. I noticed something odd that I assume is normal but figured I'd ask. Didn't want to start a 2nd thread for this, but might have to if it's not being seen. Right now the res looks clear and free of small bubbles. Once the system is under load and the liquid starts warming up a bit small bubbles start showing up. Is this normal? I can't seem to find any info one way or another. I do have the pump connected to the PWM pump header on my mobo, but I have the "fan curve" on it set to a constant speed no matter the temp (about 70%). Maybe I need to monitor the pump speed closely and see if the mobo is speeding it up under load without me realizing it and it's just making it more turbulent and creating bubbles with that small air gap?
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Cool GTX
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/11 13:32:35
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Normal air trapped throughout your loop - will eventually work out to the reservoir sometimes rocking is needed as the air can be trapped - the bubbles will rise to the highest point. I run my pump on full to help remove these "tiny bubbles" - usually most are gone in 2 or 3 days
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/11 17:39:17
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Cool GTX Normal air trapped throughout your loop - will eventually work out to the reservoir sometimes rocking is needed as the air can be trapped - the bubbles will rise to the highest point. I run my pump on full to help remove these "tiny bubbles" - usually most are gone in 2 or 3 days
Thanks, yeah I did a bunch of rocking for a few days after I filled it and thought I had it all out. These only show up after I've been gaming/etc. for a while and everything has warmed up. Maybe the heat it forcing more bubbles out.
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Delirious
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/11 17:49:09
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I'd fill it more than needed to prevent air bubbles from re-entering the system. I fill mine about 1/2 inch from the top because I like the water moving at the top and reflecting light back down into the reservoir. It gives it a shimmering effect and looks nice.
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/11 18:31:14
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Delirious I'd fill it more than needed to prevent air bubbles from re-entering the system. I fill mine about 1/2 inch from the top because I like the water moving at the top and reflecting light back down into the reservoir. It gives it a shimmering effect and looks nice.
Yeah it's filled nearly to the top now but it does still have that movement effect like the first pic.
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/12 19:00:11
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Soooo it seems like maybe I still have air in the system a week later? I turned the PWM from 70 up to 100% for some load temp testing and after an hour like that, this happened. The res turned into a hazy mess filled with fine bubbles and I can hear air going through maybe the rad where it wasn't doing that before. Going to assume I need to at least run it at 100 for a while till this settles down? I don't think I'm getting air in anywhere and there's no leaks. Thinking this might be affecting temps a bit too?
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jonkrmr
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 09:03:26
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You are probably sucking air into the pump intake from the res. In your pic, I see a tube inside the res coming up from the bottom of the res. I assume you have this as the coolant return into the res? It is high up in the res close to the top so the higher you turn up the pump RPM, the more coolant flow you get which will cause more turbulence at the top of the res where you have a small air gap. This turbulence will create air bubbles in the coolant which then swirl around in the res and most likely get sucked back into the pump intake. Your res is not that tall so the effect is more pronounced that a taller res with a greater distance from the top to bottom of it. Filling your res all the way leaving no air gap would for the most part correct this turbulence effect and the expansion\contraction of the coolant would not be an issue as you have soft tubing which will stretch (expand) under pressure. Look at my system in my Mod Rigs. I have a taller res (200mm) and have a fill tube coming out of the top of it and I fill my res all the way up into the fill tube. Coolant will lower in the fill tube a little when the pump is on because the coolant pressure in the loop expands the soft tubing a bit. This allows me to keep the res filled completely with no air gap so no coolant return turbulence happens in the res at all. After all the air is purged from my loop after initial filling, the res is crystal clear of any air bubbles what so ever and no new air bubbles get introduced in to the res from turbulence in the res.
post edited by jonkrmr - 2019/09/13 09:08:06
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 10:16:57
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jonkrmr You are probably sucking air into the pump intake from the res. In your pic, I see a tube inside the res coming up from the bottom of the res. I assume you have this as the coolant return into the res? It is high up in the res close to the top so the higher you turn up the pump RPM, the more coolant flow you get which will cause more turbulence at the top of the res where you have a small air gap. This turbulence will create air bubbles in the coolant which then swirl around in the res and most likely get sucked back into the pump intake. Your res is not that tall so the effect is more pronounced that a taller res with a greater distance from the top to bottom of it. Filling your res all the way leaving no air gap would for the most part correct this turbulence effect and the expansion\contraction of the coolant would not be an issue as you have soft tubing which will stretch (expand) under pressure. Look at my system in my Mod Rigs. I have a taller res (200mm) and have a fill tube coming out of the top of it and I fill my res all the way up into the fill tube. Coolant will lower in the fill tube a little when the pump is on because the coolant pressure in the loop expands the soft tubing a bit. This allows me to keep the res filled completely with no air gap so no coolant return turbulence happens in the res at all. After all the air is purged from my loop after initial filling, the res is crystal clear of any air bubbles what so ever and no new air bubbles get introduced in to the res from turbulence in the res.
Thanks I'll check it out. Hopefully I can swap the res tube out when I move to a bigger case. Yes the center tube is the return. I thought I had all the air out when I was running at 70% but noticed a small amount of bubbles after long gaming sessions when things were warmed up. Then I raised the pump speed to do some temp testing at various pump/fan configs and yeah that pic was the result. Besides the micro-bubbles I also got a few solid air bubbles migrating into the res as well so I think there was some air still trapped from the build a week ago.
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jonkrmr
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 10:47:23
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Small bubbles of air trapped in the radiator(s) will eventually work themselves out over time. The micro bubbles you see are again most likely from air bubbles from turbulence in your res being pulled back into the loop from the pump intake. The pump will mash them up into micro bubbles which get trapped in the coolant and for the most part flow through the loop and back into the res. This would be the air noise you keep hearing happening in your loop. From a temp standpoint, the micro bubbles in the coolant will not have really any effect on overall temps in the loop. The bigger concern from excessive air\micro bubbles in the loop is the pump cavitating or running dry for too long which can damage the pump. Same thing happens on mine when I first fill and bleed my loop until they finally rise to the top of my res where they can escape out of the res up into my fill tube. On my system, this process takes about a day or two of running and rocking my system to get all the air out of my rads and GPU block as my GPU block also tends to collect some micro bubbles in the crevasses inside the block.
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 11:38:47
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jonkrmr Small bubbles of air trapped in the radiator(s) will eventually work themselves out over time. The micro bubbles you see are again most likely from air bubbles from turbulence in your res being pulled back into the loop from the pump intake. The pump will mash them up into micro bubbles which get trapped in the coolant and for the most part flow through the loop and back into the res. This would be the air noise you keep hearing happening in your loop. From a temp standpoint, the micro bubbles in the coolant will not have really any effect on overall temps in the loop. The bigger concern from excessive air\micro bubbles in the loop is the pump cavitating or running dry for too long which can damage the pump. Same thing happens on mine when I first fill and bleed my loop until they finally rise to the top of my res where they can escape out of the res up into my fill tube. On my system, this process takes about a day or two of running and rocking my system to get all the air out of my rads and GPU block as my GPU block also tends to collect some micro bubbles in the crevasses inside the block.
Thanks for the info. I think my plan at this point is to leave it on 100% for another day or two then drop it back to 70%. I'm surprised the pump is pulling in air since the turbulence is at the top and the pump intake is at the bottom of the res.
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jonkrmr
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 13:30:51
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flyinion
jonkrmr Small bubbles of air trapped in the radiator(s) will eventually work themselves out over time. The micro bubbles you see are again most likely from air bubbles from turbulence in your res being pulled back into the loop from the pump intake. The pump will mash them up into micro bubbles which get trapped in the coolant and for the most part flow through the loop and back into the res. This would be the air noise you keep hearing happening in your loop. From a temp standpoint, the micro bubbles in the coolant will not have really any effect on overall temps in the loop. The bigger concern from excessive air\micro bubbles in the loop is the pump cavitating or running dry for too long which can damage the pump. Same thing happens on mine when I first fill and bleed my loop until they finally rise to the top of my res where they can escape out of the res up into my fill tube. On my system, this process takes about a day or two of running and rocking my system to get all the air out of my rads and GPU block as my GPU block also tends to collect some micro bubbles in the crevasses inside the block.
Thanks for the info. I think my plan at this point is to leave it on 100% for another day or two then drop it back to 70%. I'm surprised the pump is pulling in air since the turbulence is at the top and the pump intake is at the bottom of the res.
Yes but those air bubbles at the top of the res will get pulled around the res from the turbulence and the suction of coolant being pulled into the bottom of the res at the pump intake. As the bubbles of air swirl around the res, if they swirl too low in the res they get pulled down to the pump intake from the suction force of the pump. Kind of a black hole effect
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jonkrmr
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 13:34:50
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A small amount of air bubbles being pulled into the pump and through the loop isn't going to hurt anything or really affect temps and will eventually purge out of the loop so no worries.
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 13:41:47
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Thanks. Yeah I also wasn't sure if I was seeing normal behavior or just had some air still trapped. That why I thought I might run it at 100 for a couple days. At 70% PWM (4200/4800 rpm though) it was basically clear but I was noticing under load (no change in pump speed just coolant temp) bubbles would start showing up. Not a lot, but more than none. Then turning the pump up brought out a whole lot of stuff and I wasn't quite sure what was going on. Like was I actually pushing trapped air, recirculating it, or creating it even.
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jonkrmr
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 14:40:44
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To be honest in your situation with such a short res, running your pump at 100% is just going to keep introducing air bubbles into to the rest of your cooling loop and radiator as this is going to create a lot of turbulence in the res and push air bubbles down in the res to keep getting sucked back into the pump. That air will collect at the top of your radiator as the position of your radiator has its' inlet and outlet facing down. The pump at 100% will help push that collected air in the radiator out but also introduce more air into the loop from the res turbulence it creates. Your best bet is to turn down the RPM of the pump so it does not create so much turbulence in the res. Turning the pump on and off in cycles will do more to push the air out of the radiator than letting it run at 100% for an extended period. The initial surge of water pressure through the loop and radiator will push the air out of the radiator. You might also want to lean you PC back on it's back side so that the outlet port on the rad starts to face up (rad more on its' side than flat). This will give an easy path for the air to escape the radiator and go back into the res but be careful not to starve the pump for coolant as this will just defeat the purpose and introduce more air into the loop.
post edited by jonkrmr - 2019/09/13 14:42:52
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 15:19:22
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jonkrmr To be honest in your situation with such a short res, running your pump at 100% is just going to keep introducing air bubbles into to the rest of your cooling loop and radiator as this is going to create a lot of turbulence in the res and push air bubbles down in the res to keep getting sucked back into the pump.
Sounds good. I'll just set it back to 70% where it was doing good 90% of the time on bubbles before (only showed up with heat). At least I'm learning. Like I've learned I need a taller res as soon as I move cases lol. Also yeah, I've moved it around a lot, being careful to not let the pump go dry of course.
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jonkrmr
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 16:55:03
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Don't get me wrong, the short res is just fine. Just that it will take a bit longer to get all the bubbles out because of what I said earlier and with high flow pumps can create more turbulence that can cause air bubbles to form in the res and potentially be pulled back into the pump and loop. I had the room in my case so went with a taller res so this would not be as much of an issue and quicken the air purging process. Even on my taller res, I still pull some air bubbles back into the pump and loop when first filled and going through the air purging process . BTW, clean looking system you have. Nice! (post more pics of it on your Mod Rigs )
post edited by jonkrmr - 2019/09/13 16:58:13
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 17:13:48
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jonkrmr Don't get me wrong, the short res is just fine. Just that it will take a bit longer to get all the bubbles out because of what I said earlier and with high flow pumps can create more turbulence that can cause air bubbles to form in the res and potentially be pulled back into the pump and loop. I had the room in my case so went with a taller res so this would not be as much of an issue and quicken the air purging process. Even on my taller res, I still pull some air bubbles back into the pump and loop when first filled and going through the air purging process . BTW, clean looking system you have. Nice! (post more pics of it on your Mod Rigs )
Yep I'll be getting more pics and some benchmarks for the ModsRigs site and a build thread in the ModsRigs forum after this weekend. I need to get my custom PSU cables put in before I take final pics. They showed up on Tuesday finally.
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/13 19:34:48
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Well I'll definitely be topping off the res a bit this weekend. After I set the pump back to normal and things settled down it's obvious I pushed some air out of somewhere cause it dropped in level just a bit. Not much but noticeable.
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flyinion
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/09/14 00:54:43
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Well, looks like my 100% pump run for 24 hours pushed the last of the bubbles into the res I guess. I topped it off tonight and yeah there's just a very tiny gap not even all the way across the res top and after 3 hours of gaming + a heaven run for 5 minutes on top to really make sure the loop temp was up, no microbubbles or other bubbles showed up in the res. Looks like I'm set now. This was after putting it back to 70% speed first Thanks for all the advice everyone.
AMD Ryzen 5950X | Asus Crosshair VIII Hero | Gigabyte Gaming OC 4090 w/EK Vector2 | GSkill Trident Z Neo 2x16GB DDR4-3600 | WD SN850 2TB | Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB & 860 Evo 2TB | Phanteks Enthoo 719 | Seasonic Prime Ultra Gold 1000W | Steelseries M750 TKL | SteelSeries Prime Wireless | SteelSeries Arctis Pro + GameDAC | Kanto YU2 + Yamaha sub | Schiit Magni 2 Uber & Modi 2 Uber | LG 34GN850 | Asus PG279Q | Win 11 Pro | Custom water loop
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xmanrigger
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Re: Reservoir fill level?
2019/10/29 11:33:24
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Without reading all the posts, this is my take on it. I always fill the rez to max for a couple of reasons. 1) If rez is full, then there is less void. Although it might seem negligible, the pump's operating noise and vibration can resonate in that void, and could be audible. 2) Easier to bleed air out and less chance of creating a vortex, which draws air to pump suction. 3) It just looks better full. Not sure if this was mentioned: I always fill and bleed a system at the lowest speed the pump will circulate the loop.
ASUS Z490-A Strix / Intel i9-10850K / 16GB G.Skill TridentZ Royal DDR4-4000/ WD M.2 1TB - Kingston M.2 2TB / EVGA RTX 3070 XC3 Ultra / Corsair AX1200i PSU / Asus 28" @ 3840X2160 Cooling: CPU - EK Velocity Strike / GPU - EK Quantum Vector w/ Backplate / 2X Alphacool Nexxxos UT60 360 rads / Tygon 1/2" X 3/4" tubing / BitsPower fiittings http://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=32550
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