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AnsweredZ370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?!

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bcavnaugh
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/06/30 01:43:48 (permalink)
Not really, it just needs to be Clean Up. They say toothpaste work great if you have not Copper Cleaner.
Make sure after you clean it up to use 90% Isopropyl Alcohol
What does the CPU Die look Like?

post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/30 01:47:32

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chinobino.
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/06/30 01:53:58 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby ales75 2019/06/30 02:26:14
Hi ales75, I had a similar experience recently with a Z370 Classified K and POST code 23.
 
You mentioned you were "tighetening my memory timings" when the board failed to POST and I suspect you have corrupted your CMOS and 1st BIOS chip with too tight memory timings.
 
Then when you attempted to boot from 2nd BIOS without completely clearing and power draining CMOS, the 2nd BIOS chip was also corrupted - I believe this is what happened to me.
 
Code 23 refers to "OEM pre-memory initialization codes", which occurs just before "2B Memory initialization. Serial Presence Detect (SPD) data reading".
 
This means the board cannot initialise the IMC to start detecting the RAM DIMMs.
 
I had to RMA the board after going through full troubleshooting with EVGA support and a local PC shop.
 
I have Kingston HyperX RAM (HX424C15FB/8) which was not actually C15 despite its name breakdown;
HX = HyperX
4 = DDR4
24 = 2400 MHz
C15 = CAS latency 15
F = Fury
B = Black Heat Spreader
8 = 8GB per DIMM
 
I bought a Gigabyte Z390 UD to test the CPU, RAM and PSU and discovered the RAM is not C15 and is actually C17 (up to C20) when I looked at the SPD profile in CPU-Z and Thaiphoon burner.
 
I think that the board attempted to boot with too tight RAM timings and corrupted CMOS, which in turn corrupted the BIOS.
 
There is no 2400 MHz Kingston RAM on the QVL (only 2133 and 2666) so it possibly could have been avoided had I checked.
 
After I attempted to boot from the 2nd BIOS chip (resulting in code 23) I later read that the correct procedure if you corrupt your BIOS on a dual BIOS motherboard is to first power down, then clear CMOS, remove power from the motherboard and remove the CMOS battery before you attempt to boot from the 2nd BIOS or the corruption in CMOS can corrupt the 2nd BIOS chip as well.
 
Although I did power down and clear CMOS, I didn't remove the CMOS battery to allow power to fully drain from CMOS before I attempted to boot from the 2nd BIOS chip, which most likely corrupted it.
 
The problem is that the clear CMOS button does not actually clear CMOS completely (at least on the Z370 Classified K), I have noticed that the time/date does not get reset and the saved configuration profiles do not get erased either.
 
Having received my new replacement motherboard from EVGA (thank you guys!) I will now be very careful anytime that the board doesn't POST and ensure I always clear and power drain CMOS completely before trying to boot from the 2nd BIOS chip.
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ales75
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/06/30 02:16:00 (permalink)
chinobino.
Hi ales75, I had a similar experience recently with a Z370 Classified K and POST code 23.
 
You mentioned you were "tighetening my memory timings" when the board failed to POST and I suspect you have corrupted your CMOS and 1st BIOS chip with too tight memory timings.
 
Then when you attempted to boot from 2nd BIOS without completely clearing and power draining CMOS, the 2nd BIOS chip was also corrupted - I believe this is what happened to me.
 
Code 23 refers to "OEM pre-memory initialization codes", which occurs just before "2B Memory initialization. Serial Presence Detect (SPD) data reading".
 
This means the board cannot initialise the IMC to start detecting the RAM DIMMs.
 
I had to RMA the board after going through full troubleshooting with EVGA support and a local PC shop.
 
I have Kingston HyperX RAM (HX424C15FB/8) which was not actually C15 despite its name breakdown;
HX = HyperX
4 = DDR4
24 = 2400 MHz
C15 = CAS latency 15
F = Fury
B = Black Heat Spreader
8 = 8GB per DIMM
 
I bought a Gigabyte Z390 UD to test the CPU, RAM and PSU and discovered the RAM is not C15 and is actually C17 (up to C20) when I looked at the SPD profile in CPU-Z and Thaiphoon burner.
 
I think that the board attempted to boot with too tight RAM timings and corrupted CMOS, which in turn corrupted the BIOS.
 
There is no 2400 MHz Kingston RAM on the QVL (only 2133 and 2666) so it possibly could have been avoided had I checked.
 
After I attempted to boot from the 2nd BIOS chip (resulting in code 23) I later read that the correct procedure if you corrupt your BIOS on a dual BIOS motherboard is to first power down, then clear CMOS, remove power from the motherboard and remove the CMOS battery before you attempt to boot from the 2nd BIOS or the corruption in CMOS can corrupt the 2nd BIOS chip as well.
 
Although I did power down and clear CMOS, I didn't remove the CMOS battery to allow power to fully drain from CMOS before I attempted to boot from the 2nd BIOS chip, which most likely corrupted it.
 
The problem is that the clear CMOS button does not actually clear CMOS completely (at least on the Z370 Classified K), I have noticed that the time/date does not get reset and the saved configuration profiles do not get erased either.
 
Having received my new replacement motherboard from EVGA (thank you guys!) I will now be very careful anytime that the board doesn't POST and ensure I always clear and power drain CMOS completely before trying to boot from the 2nd BIOS chip.


Hi dude.. 
yes you're right, this is what happened overall and i knew it and pretty sure it is LoL
The fact is my timings were not so tight.. i think i was trying to boot 4266 17-17-17-38, yes they are very good but not so tight..
however thank you.. your post confirms all my suspects.

CPU:  Core i7 8700k Delidded @ 5.1 Ghz - 1.30 V
MB:   EVGA Z370 MICRO
AIO:  EVGA CLC 280/4x Noctua Chromax
RAM:  16 GB HyperX Predator 4000 18-18-36-2T - 1.36 V
GPU:  EVGA RTX 2080 FTW3 ULTRA HYBRID
PSU:  EVGA SuperNova G3 650W
#33
ales75
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/06/30 02:20:58 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
Not really, it just needs to be Clean Up. They say toothpaste work great if you have not Copper Cleaner.
Make sure after you clean it up to use 90% Isopropyl Alcohol
What does the CPU Die look Like?



Yes i know.. will be a lit bit cleaner .. i can show you, this is before i cleaned it, the fact is as i told before there's a groove.. and that is not part of the cleaning..could be the quality of the copper used for this ihs, the die looks overall not bad.. wouldn't say it is damaged based on the look

CPU:  Core i7 8700k Delidded @ 5.1 Ghz - 1.30 V
MB:   EVGA Z370 MICRO
AIO:  EVGA CLC 280/4x Noctua Chromax
RAM:  16 GB HyperX Predator 4000 18-18-36-2T - 1.36 V
GPU:  EVGA RTX 2080 FTW3 ULTRA HYBRID
PSU:  EVGA SuperNova G3 650W
#34
ales75
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/06/30 02:28:36 (permalink)
chinobino.
 
 The problem is that the clear CMOS button does not actually clear CMOS completely (at least on the Z370 Classified K), I have noticed that the time/date does not get reset and the saved configuration profiles do not get erased either.


This is true dude.. i understood it as soon as i finished the build within the very first configuration

CPU:  Core i7 8700k Delidded @ 5.1 Ghz - 1.30 V
MB:   EVGA Z370 MICRO
AIO:  EVGA CLC 280/4x Noctua Chromax
RAM:  16 GB HyperX Predator 4000 18-18-36-2T - 1.36 V
GPU:  EVGA RTX 2080 FTW3 ULTRA HYBRID
PSU:  EVGA SuperNova G3 650W
#35
ales75
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/06/30 02:47:24 (permalink)
my last thought is that i overclocked a lot during my life, mostly had Asus MB, sometime also did risky things with memory etc.. never happened something like this, this is not normal. this should not happen.

CPU:  Core i7 8700k Delidded @ 5.1 Ghz - 1.30 V
MB:   EVGA Z370 MICRO
AIO:  EVGA CLC 280/4x Noctua Chromax
RAM:  16 GB HyperX Predator 4000 18-18-36-2T - 1.36 V
GPU:  EVGA RTX 2080 FTW3 ULTRA HYBRID
PSU:  EVGA SuperNova G3 650W
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chinobino.
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/06/30 02:47:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby ales75 2019/06/30 02:53:25
ales75
Hi dude.. 
yes you're right, this is what happened overall and i knew it and pretty sure it is LoL
The fact is my timings were not so tight.. i think i was trying to boot 4266 17-17-17-38, yes they are very good but not so tight..
however thank you.. your post confirms all my suspects.

It may not even be primary timings that causes the corruption.
 
Problematic secondary timings could be RFC, RTP, WR and RRD_S/L
 
I have tested my Kingston HyperX a lot on my Gigabyte Z390 which tends to have looser tertiary timings (i.e. IMC) than my Z370.
 
In particular tRDWR_dd can be set too tight when the RAM is training and causes errors in Memtest86+ test 6 and causes Karhu RAM test to fail also.
 
Not sure if this is a BIOS issue or whether these Nanya IC's are so bad that they only just meet JEDEC specs.
post edited by chinobino. - 2019/06/30 02:50:50
#37
ales75
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/06/30 02:53:16 (permalink)
chinobino.
ales75
Hi dude.. 
yes you're right, this is what happened overall and i knew it and pretty sure it is LoL
The fact is my timings were not so tight.. i think i was trying to boot 4266 17-17-17-38, yes they are very good but not so tight..
however thank you.. your post confirms all my suspects.

It may not even be primary timings that causes the corruption.
 
Problematic secondary timings could be RFC, RP, WR and RRD_S/L
 
I have tested my Kingston HyperX a lot on my Gigabyte Z390 which tends to have looser tertiary timings (i.e. IMC) than my Z370.
 
In particular tRDWR_dd can be set too tight when the RAM is training and causes errors in Memtest86+ test 6 and causes Karhu RAM test to fail also.
 
Not sure if this is a BIOS issue or whether these Nanya IC's are so bad that they only just meet JEDEC specs.


i am again agree with you, the fact is my seconday and tertiary were good and not so tight i have them on screenshot.. this is the only reason for why i'll be swapping the 8700 with a celeron to see and eventually exclude the cpu.

CPU:  Core i7 8700k Delidded @ 5.1 Ghz - 1.30 V
MB:   EVGA Z370 MICRO
AIO:  EVGA CLC 280/4x Noctua Chromax
RAM:  16 GB HyperX Predator 4000 18-18-36-2T - 1.36 V
GPU:  EVGA RTX 2080 FTW3 ULTRA HYBRID
PSU:  EVGA SuperNova G3 650W
#38
ales75
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/06/30 03:05:40 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
Not really, it just needs to be Clean Up. They say toothpaste work great if you have not Copper Cleaner.
Make sure after you clean it up to use 90% Isopropyl Alcohol
What does the CPU Die look Like?

This is cleaned..
 

Attached Image(s)


CPU:  Core i7 8700k Delidded @ 5.1 Ghz - 1.30 V
MB:   EVGA Z370 MICRO
AIO:  EVGA CLC 280/4x Noctua Chromax
RAM:  16 GB HyperX Predator 4000 18-18-36-2T - 1.36 V
GPU:  EVGA RTX 2080 FTW3 ULTRA HYBRID
PSU:  EVGA SuperNova G3 650W
#39
bcavnaugh
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/06/30 10:51:16 (permalink)
ales75
bcavnaugh
Not really, it just needs to be Clean Up. They say toothpaste work great if you have not Copper Cleaner.
Make sure after you clean it up to use 90% Isopropyl Alcohol
What does the CPU Die look Like?

This is cleaned..

 Time for a Brillo pad or SOS Pad

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#40
ales75
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/07/08 03:45:50 (permalink)
update :
 
as supposed it is the motherboard, ongoing RMA
 
Thanks

CPU:  Core i7 8700k Delidded @ 5.1 Ghz - 1.30 V
MB:   EVGA Z370 MICRO
AIO:  EVGA CLC 280/4x Noctua Chromax
RAM:  16 GB HyperX Predator 4000 18-18-36-2T - 1.36 V
GPU:  EVGA RTX 2080 FTW3 ULTRA HYBRID
PSU:  EVGA SuperNova G3 650W
#41
ales75
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/07/18 05:08:56 (permalink)
back online... no more extreme memory tweaking on this mb, i tried on more time (nothing crazy however) and i almost corrupted the bios again...

CPU:  Core i7 8700k Delidded @ 5.1 Ghz - 1.30 V
MB:   EVGA Z370 MICRO
AIO:  EVGA CLC 280/4x Noctua Chromax
RAM:  16 GB HyperX Predator 4000 18-18-36-2T - 1.36 V
GPU:  EVGA RTX 2080 FTW3 ULTRA HYBRID
PSU:  EVGA SuperNova G3 650W
#42
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/07/18 06:40:57 (permalink)
thanks for the update

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#43
chinobino.
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Re: Z370 micro stuck on post code 23 please suggestions?! 2019/07/22 18:57:38 (permalink)
Yeah, probably not worth the risk for the small performance gain considering the down time it causes.
 
Might have to just stick with XMP timings and call it a day.
#44
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