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Helpful ReplyEntho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3

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rchiwawa
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2019/03/18 18:14:43 (permalink)
 
So, TL;dr, how would you suggest I go about configuring the airflow for the chassis and the available hardware to maximize quietness and with optimal cooling power for 24x7 loading of CPU and GPU
 
 
So far, this is what I have in mind for the radiators to be used and general loop configuration.
 
 

 
 
Some things to note:
  • I have enough Noctua NF-A12x25 fans to support push/pull + exhaust if I so elect.  My bench testing with a PWM controller and fans on the 60mm rads has me thinking a single P installation will be all that is required.
  • My intention is to use the shortest runs and total tube length possible using the myriad of fittings I have at my disposal.
  • My motherboard VRM temperatures have been thoroughly tested in a variety of airflow scenarios under silly levels of load and I am not concerned about them at this time and will buy a watercooling block to cool if/as needed
  • EK's website says the EK 360mm x 28mm radiator I have on hand will fit the bottom, I may be able to clean out the 480mm x 60mm radiator they told me to keep but I have my doubts
  • I have the following rads on hand andavailable, would consider purchasing something differenet if compelling reasons are provided.
  1. 240mm x 38mm (fits side),
  2. 240mm x 28mm (fits side),
  3. 120mm x 60mm fits back
  4. 360mm x 28mm fits top/bottom
  5. 480mm x 60mm fits top/maybe bottom
  6. A 480mm x 60mm rad that despite having put 4 gallons of distilled water through it, shaking it all the way just will not stop emitting solid debris with each fill no matter what I do... so I consider it possibly but not likely available
 
 
The reason why I selected this case is simple.  I wanted maximum radiator capacity available to support pursuit of the lowest fan speed and noise possible while holding the CPU and GPU at optimal boost clocks in 24x7 folding operation or gaming whether the room is 95F/35C or 70F/21C.  The room is typically < 75F/24C at worst during the summer thanks to AC.
 
I can't get out of my head that the following picture is a crap way to run things versus the first image.  It seems like too much for my single D5 pump and too little to gain thermally and potentially more noise... just because I can doesn't means it's a good idea, right?
 

 
As always, your input is greatly appreciated.

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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Entho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3 2019/03/18 22:23:17 (permalink)
Best scenario I see is front intake, bottom (fans only) intake (if filtered) and the rest of the radiators (top, side and back) you have listed as exhaust - I think you will have reached the diminishing point of more radiator surface area and will need to be making sure you have sufficient fresh cool air intake


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rchiwawa
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Re: Entho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3 2019/03/19 03:49:35 (permalink)
GGTV-Jon
Best scenario I see is front intake, bottom (fans only) intake (if filtered) and the rest of the radiators (top, side and back) you have listed as exhaust - I think you will have reached the diminishing point of more radiator surface area and will need to be making sure you have sufficient fresh cool air intake




All fan mounts on this case have filters and I have picked up a magnetic mesh filter to allow use of the side fan/rad mount as an intake should I decided that's a thing to do.  I like to have options :)
 
I want to be decently deep into the diminishing returns realm (obviously) to provide thermal overhead for my desired "set it and forget it" configuration of fan speeds of 650> tRPM > 1,000k.  My thought concerning running top/side/back rads is the flow restriction introduced via the extra tubing, bends, and fittings will require higher pump speed than the proposed in picture 1 from the original post for effectively equal or less rad surface area. 
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Entho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3 2019/03/20 01:16:51 (permalink)
Any air passing through a radiator should be on exhaust, otherwise you are just dumping that heat into the case then back out another radiator with what little bit of heat was picked up from the VRM and board itself


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Cool GTX
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Re: Entho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3 2019/03/20 10:15:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby rchiwawa 2019/04/02 20:22:27
Look at my build log of my Rig Nibbler, for ideas
 
Bottom & Front Intakes --> those factory filters are Nice & easy to remove & clean
 
Build log of my primary Folding@Home Rig - code name Nibbler
 
 
With CPU & 1 GPU you will Not need all those Radiators --> unless they are extra skinny ones
 
I put the 420 (140 x 3) Radiator up top --> More Cooling Area than a 480 (120 x 4) - the 480 will work
 
The bottom once you go over 240 Rad - it needs a small mod IMO -- see my link
 
 

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rchiwawa
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Re: Entho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3 2019/04/03 23:13:14 (permalink)
Cool GTX
...
With CPU & 1 GPU you will Not need all those Radiators --> unless they are extra skinny ones
...




I might not have needed them but man is this machine quite quiet and pretty damned cool now.  Holding a boost clock in the worst of worst games or work units @ 2,115, GPU temp 43°C max, coolant temp at two points 31°max and after the CPU block decided to start behaving, a worst case temp of 63°c on that.  These temps are with the card sucking down ≈330w concurrently with the 2700x @ 4.25GHz SVI 2 consumption @ ≈160w. 
 
I did elect to go with the top and bottom config as intake.  Once I had a case not smashed to hell by UPS, the first time in two decades I have ever had a problem with them, and saw how well ventilated the Primo is I figured it was worth a try until Ryzen 3k/Zen 2 drops.  I set the fleet of NF-A12x25 fans @ 1,100 rpm steady operation, the NF-a14 fans up front as exhaust @ 800 rpm, NF-A12x25 side exhaust @1,200 rpm exhaust and I can scarcely hear it from 5 feet.
 
I did have to make a mod to the case though... it was the only was I could see easily servicing the loop.  https://youtu.be/9WkZNYiH9wk 
 
Not my best work but quite funtional

 
I want to thank you and bcav again for the help and consideration along the way.

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rchiwawa
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Re: Entho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3 2019/04/07 13:10:45 (permalink)
Thought I would make a posting with some hard data about my loop and temp performance to see if anyone sees something out of whack.  I think my GPU temp delta vs coolant is good but the CPU is suspect to me.  37° delta seems like it is too wide. Chassis fan 2 &3 are where my radiator fans are wired in.  CPU and CPU OPT are the exhaust fans.
 
Folding @ home had been running overnight but I didn't think to run HWinfo since I have pretty much dialed in the fans, etc so I ran it for 20 minutes here

 
 
I paused f @ h and immediately loaded up and played in DX:MD for a half hour or so.  As soon as it exited I took this screen shot.

 
Everything looks great to me; you thoughts?  I am sad no one took the bait with my other set of pics showing the EVGA 400w powersupply.  I used it to prime my loop

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Cool GTX
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Re: Entho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3 2019/04/07 13:53:22 (permalink)
rchiwawa
  I am sad no one took the bait with my other set of pics showing the EVGA 400w powersupply.  I used it to prime my loop





 
 I thought that was your leak test PSU to run just the pump

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rchiwawa
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Re: Entho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3 2019/04/07 14:34:20 (permalink)
Cool GTX
 
 I thought that was your leak test PSU to run just the pump


Trolling fail, eh?  So what about that CPU temp?  It is bugging the crap out of me.  I was thinking of maybe trying a different block like the Heatkiller IV pro to see if I can get a few degrees shaved off.  Is 37° about right?  I know it's not the installation job; I have removed the block, verified even and thin paste spread, took the block into my shop and measured its uniformity and height, same for the CPU, measured CPU IHS height off of the motherboard with calipers at a half dozen places and it all checked out.  I also disassembled it and it is super clean.  Maybe a dual D5 pump could improve things?  My pump had/ has to be run @ ≈ 60% to successfully push fluid all the way through and back around so maybe my concerns are caused by flow rates for the EK Velocity as set up. 
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Re: Entho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3 2019/04/07 17:31:00 (permalink)
Looks like you plumbed the CPU Block "Backwards" - Maybe ?  [EK CPU block only flow properly in one direction]


By the EK badge should be the Exit on the CPU Block

Is the Flow pump, GPU, CPU, Rad Top, then Rad bottom ?  (Cant really tell from your photo)
 
I'll ask - because it has happened to others - was the protective membrane removed from the bottom of the CPU block ?
 
If that CPU block is like the one I used for my PC - there are jet plates inside the block - directions should say how it should be set for any given CPU.  Did you confirm the plates were set as the should be ?


 
 
Also remember that your hitting the GPU first, so the coolant is warmer
 
I'm not sure what is "Normal" as I'm not an AMD, CPU guy
 
Generically - always watch your Voltage to control temps under load
 
What is the ID of the Hose & fittings ?
 
I use 1/2 inch ID hose & with only one D5 pump in Nibbler & that has 3 GPU before the CPU --> I think one D5 should work. 

Different pump Tops have different performance curves, 60% is on the slower side.  You need to test & see if more flow = better temps

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rchiwawa
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Re: Entho Primo Loop Planning 2700x\Hydro Copper 2080 Ti FTW3 2019/04/07 18:39:54 (permalink)
Cool GTX
Looks like you plumbed the CPU Block "Backwards" - Maybe ?  [EK CPU block only flow properly in one direction]


By the EK badge should be the Exit on the CPU Block

Is the Flow pump, GPU, CPU, Rad Top, then Rad bottom ?  (Cant really tell from your photo)
 
I'll ask - because it has happened to others - was the protective membrane removed from the bottom of the CPU block ?
 




Loop flow goes Pump>bottom rad>top rad>CPU (to clearly machined inlet marker)>GPU>back to pump.  It seemed to be the plumbing scheme that would yield the shortest total tube length so I went with it.  I can confirm your statement about the outlet side being closer to the EK logo.  Membrane was removed, they put a very obvious sticker that can't be missed.
 
Since the pump is inaudible from my seating position at any speed I run it @ 100%,  I have run it at 75% for a day and the only definite result I saw was longer time to cool down when the CPU and GPU.  +1°C difference GPU, +2°C on the CPU once saturated and -1°c on the coolant; all margin of error to me.
 
On Reddit another user chimed in and after giving me their results everything seems to be +1° on my config for the CPU where they are using an XSPC block and under stress tests we see the same boost clock for the similar core voltage negative offset so... it seems everything is in order.  It would have been nice to get a little more boost out of the CPU post conversion from AIOs to open loop but all things considered I am in a word happy.  I keep looking at the case in disbelief with a smile because it is fully loaded up and all temps (VRMs, ram, etc) are improved and I can't hear it... save for coil whine on 14k series GPU workunits
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