rjohnson11
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https://www.anandtech.com/show/13683/intel-euvenabled-7nm-process-tech-is-on-track Intel reported that its 7 nanometer silicon fabrication node, which incorporates EUV (extreme ultraviolet) lithography, is on track. Intel decided to divide it's 7nm and 10nm teams. While problems with 10nm are still ongoing 7nm is now ontrack. "7 nm for us is a separate team and largely a separate effort. We are quite pleased with our progress on 7 nm. In fact, very pleased with our progress on 7 nm," said Renduchintala Murthy, chief engineering officer and president of technology, systems architecture and client group at Intel, speaking at the Nasdaq conference. "I think that we have taken a lot of lessons out of the 10 nm experience as we defined that and defined a different optimization point between transistor density, power and performance and schedule predictability.So, we are very, very focused on getting 7 nm out according to our original internal plans," he added. Let's hope that Intel can finally dig itself out of the die transitioning problems it's been having for months.
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/06 22:25:37
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I was just reading this on FB and about to post it here but you beat me to it RJ. I will quote someone in response to a back and forth Intel vs AMD debate/argument that got me intrigued and wanted to share but won't share their identity. Except AMD isn't actually make 7nm chips like they're pretending. It's a huge marketing lie and their fanboys are swallowing it whole. Its a big enough lie that it should be illegal. Certainly AMD is doing great things, especially at the prices they're able to sell their chips for, but they are not putting out 7nm anything next year.
In reality what the foundries that AMD, and other companies, are working with that are calling 7nm is actually equivalent to Intel's 10nm in die size.This isn't my opinion, this is a fact per independent industry expert David Kanter. When we see Intel finally get 10nm on the market its going to once again blow the doors off anything AMD has on the market in terms of their "7nm" chips when it comes to IPC and clock speeds.
With 7nm, AMD will finally be scratching the surface of what Intel is doing with their 14nm+++ chips. AMD has had to push the core count race because they've in no way been capable of coming close to Intel in either IPC or clock speeds. Even then Zen 2 will be two chips glued together under the IHS, just like EYPC, for those higher core count consumer CPUs.
Intel having that lead in IPC and clock speed is why they've never needed to bring their prices down either. Yes they've lost market share to AMD, but still have zero issue selling their chips. Because IPC and clock speed still matter to a huge segment of the market, a far bigger segment than 16+ cores matters. Or will matter for another decade.
post edited by GTXJackBauer - 2018/12/06 22:27:54
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MasterMiner
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/06 23:02:18
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7nm will be the end of moores law - transistor density will have reached its limit. Even if they perfect the process - yield rates will always be low. Much of the wafers will be doa. Your now dealing with individual electrons passing through a gate to flip a single bit.
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starsmine
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/06 23:20:02
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GTXJackBauer I was just reading this on FB and about to post it here but you beat me to it RJ. I will quote someone in response to a back and forth Intel vs AMD debate/argument that got me intrigued and wanted to share but won't share their identity.
Except AMD isn't actually make 7nm chips like they're pretending. It's a huge marketing lie and their fanboys are swallowing it whole. Its a big enough lie that it should be illegal. Certainly AMD is doing great things, especially at the prices they're able to sell their chips for, but they are not putting out 7nm anything next year.
In reality what the foundries that AMD, and other companies, are working with that are calling 7nm is actually equivalent to Intel's 10nm in die size.This isn't my opinion, this is a fact per independent industry expert David Kanter. When we see Intel finally get 10nm on the market its going to once again blow the doors off anything AMD has on the market in terms of their "7nm" chips when it comes to IPC and clock speeds.
With 7nm, AMD will finally be scratching the surface of what Intel is doing with their 14nm+++ chips. AMD has had to push the core count race because they've in no way been capable of coming close to Intel in either IPC or clock speeds. Even then Zen 2 will be two chips glued together under the IHS, just like EYPC, for those higher core count consumer CPUs.
Intel having that lead in IPC and clock speed is why they've never needed to bring their prices down either. Yes they've lost market share to AMD, but still have zero issue selling their chips. Because IPC and clock speed still matter to a huge segment of the market, a far bigger segment than 16+ cores matters. Or will matter for another decade.
Holy crap, how disingenuous can that quoted person be.
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/07 15:27:29
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MasterMiner 7nm will be the end of moores law - transistor density will have reached its limit. Even if they perfect the process - yield rates will always be low. Much of the wafers will be doa. Your now dealing with individual electrons passing through a gate to flip a single bit.
How do you see the future unfold? Will they just stick with the best size and work with it that is the most efficient and best investment to them? Like add more cores or slap two CPUs as one? How about the boards that can be a bottle neck in different areas, etc.
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somethingc00l
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/07 16:00:18
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GTXJackBauer How do you see the future unfold?
Long term, optical and quantum computing. Short term will be parallelism and focus on latency reduction.
post edited by somethingc00l - 2018/12/07 16:03:28
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HaywireHaywood
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/07 17:04:02
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True or not, that facebook quote doesn't so much sound like informed reporting as much as it sounds like a very defensive Intel fanboy spewing an angry rant.
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boylerya
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/09 18:59:25
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MasterMiner 7nm will be the end of moores law - transistor density will have reached its limit. Even if they perfect the process - yield rates will always be low. Much of the wafers will be doa. Your now dealing with individual electrons passing through a gate to flip a single bit.
https://semiengineering.c...or-options-beyond-3nm/
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Bruno747
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/09 20:21:40
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HaywireHaywood True or not, that facebook quote doesn't so much sound like informed reporting as much as it sounds like a very defensive Intel fanboy spewing an angry rant.
Yes it does sound like an Intel fanboy, but it is indeed true. If you look at actual node specs for TSMC 7nm and Intel 10nm, they are almost exactly the same. If I remember correctly, there are only two specs that are slightly difference and only ever so slightly. Not that this should surprise anyone, we have been dealing with fake named nodes since what 28nm?
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starsmine
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/09 22:23:55
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Bruno747
HaywireHaywood True or not, that facebook quote doesn't so much sound like informed reporting as much as it sounds like a very defensive Intel fanboy spewing an angry rant.
Yes it does sound like an Intel fanboy, but it is indeed true. If you look at actual node specs for TSMC 7nm and Intel 10nm, they are almost exactly the same. If I remember correctly, there are only two specs that are slightly difference and only ever so slightly. Not that this should surprise anyone, we have been dealing with fake named nodes since what 28nm?
Exactly, it may be true, but to put the blame on AMD and ignore the history of node names, even on intel's side, is why its a terrible facebook quote. Another fact is, Intel is still struggling with 10nm, they have just cannonlake low power working and the new NUC on the better 10nm node, so TSMC beat intel to this node regardless.
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/10 18:05:45
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Bruno747
HaywireHaywood True or not, that facebook quote doesn't so much sound like informed reporting as much as it sounds like a very defensive Intel fanboy spewing an angry rant.
Yes it does sound like an Intel fanboy, but it is indeed true. If you look at actual node specs for TSMC 7nm and Intel 10nm, they are almost exactly the same. If I remember correctly, there are only two specs that are slightly difference and only ever so slightly. Not that this should surprise anyone, we have been dealing with fake named nodes since what 28nm?
Thanks for catching on. That was the point of the post. I could care less about the bashing part.
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MasterMiner
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/10 19:13:48
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boylerya
MasterMiner 7nm will be the end of moores law - transistor density will have reached its limit. Even if they perfect the process - yield rates will always be low. Much of the wafers will be doa. Your now dealing with individual electrons passing through a gate to flip a single bit.
https://semiengineering.c...or-options-beyond-3nm/
I’m going to make a prediction... it’s not going to happen. You’re simply not going to see node density less than 7nm. The only way I’ll eat those words are if the laws of physics are repealed. Scientists can theorize anything. Building is another matter.
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/11 18:32:38
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5nm Fab is up and be producing next year by tsmc TSMC to Start 5nm Production in AprilTSMC taped out its first chip in a process making limited use of extreme ultraviolet lithography and will start risk production in April on a 5-nm node with full EUV. Separately, the foundry forged partnerships with four partners to support online services for back-end chip design. https://www.eetasia.com/news/article/18100502-tsmc-to-start-5nm-production-in-april they made the first 5nm chip already non-EUV full EUV is april
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veganfanatic
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Re: Intel 7nm EUV Node Back On Track, 2x Transistor Densities Over 10nm
2018/12/11 18:56:43
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All this market BS about nm when I would like to see beside earlier designs under the xray this would be a more realistic idea of how much the transister has changed the FinFET has been used since 22nm at Intel and so far it has remained in use
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