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Z370 Boards and cases of VRM/mosfet overheating.

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Gawg36
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2018/05/12 22:29:47 (permalink)
Lately this topic seems to be cropping up. Glad to say EVGA has a good record on this from what I've read. Nothing is real solid.
One thing that several sites, even Kitguru, tested was the VRM cooling on the Gigabyte Ultra gaming. Not Aorus range, but a mid range board.
They have already released vs. 2. to replace vs 1 already.
There are bits and pieces scattered around the internet of problems with this. Gigabyte gets it worst, even on their flag ship Aorus Gaming 7 which according to
some (has excellent components - that can't be denied) but let down by a large but cometics first heat sink for the VRMS.
 
Gigabyte (as far as I know) are the only company to have built in sensors for the power system, so they get the closest scrutiny. But I read on Techpower up, that this
may be the case for many boards. Safety kicks in due to over spec heat and throttles down quite a bit, but the cpu temps seem fine. Nexus have also said similar and made a video about a top class
Z370 board, which is excellent, except for terrible power delivery (VRM and Mosfets mainly) not being cooled adequately.
Seems this issue isn't totally new, but no way to know without testing that aspect. Something not deemed necessary. I believe it was Nexus? who complained to manufacturers about quality over
cosmetics, but nothing changed.
 
So for now, EVGA have never been mentioned, and my personal feeling is that with the care they take regulating heat on ICX GPU's they would be reliable in this area.
 
It's a bit worrying, something else, silly really, to check when buying a new mobo. This is not especially about EVGA. Like I said they seem to do well, but I was wondering
if anyone else has heard about this, and could add anything?
 
EDIT: Although this isn't new its more frequent now as the coffee lakes draw more power than Kaby, but otherwise there are no major changes needed from the Z270 platform.
Many/ most? manufactures are using the same VRM setup as Kaby. While that was fine in most cases, the fact that coffee lake is a different beast, but in this area mobo's haven't
changed mostly. So for some boards, especially if the heatsink isn't properly screwed on to allow good heat transfer, Kaby style just a bit much for coffee lake.
 
Apparanlty Gigabyte have already shown there next Z470 board with this rectified. Does that mean that Z370 boards, in some cases, are getting overheated VRMs, even if it
is not enough to kick in safety features. AsRock was accused of this issue. The only major companies that seem good in this regard are Asus and EVGA.
My new mobo ready to be installed is the flag ship Gigabyte Aorus gaming 7. A top notch board, but maybe, just maybe could overheat the VRM areas due to cosmetics
and hiding all those darn led light show wires inside the the heatsink! Sounds crazy, so just hoping to hear others opinions or especially experiences with this. Thank you.
post edited by Gawg36 - 2018/05/12 22:43:03

1. Taichi z370. i7 8086k @ 5,2GHz Stable.
16GB G.Skill Trident Z @ 3,000MHz.
  EVGA GTX 1080ti  FTW3. Acer XB270HU IPS 1440p 144Hz Refresh with G-Sync. PSU Corsair AX850. Cloud two cans, and Creative T20 stereo. Realtek HD on board sound.
 
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    jonkrmr
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    Re: Z370 Boards and cases of VRM/mosfet overheating. 2018/05/13 06:23:30 (permalink)
    Z370 & Coffee Lake-S was a knee jerk reaction from Intel to combat AMD Ryzen. You are right, it is really just a re-branded Z270. The VRM design on Z270 is not really up to the loads required for Coffee Lake-S 6 core CPUs as it was designed for 4 core CPU power loads.
    I also have a Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7 board. This board has a small 40mm fan behind the main VRM under the plastic shield on the back of the board that will kick in at I think 90 degree C but you can change that in BIOS on the board. I have mine set to run at full speed all the time and have not seen my VRM temps under load go much past 50 degree C. VRM heat sinks are designed to require air flow over them to be efficient. They usually get this from the heat sink\fan air flow from your CPU cooler. When water cooling your CPU, you do not get this air flow from the CPU over the VRMs.
    Z390 boards should have a VRM design suited to 6-8 core CPU power demands (Z470 is the new chip set for AMD CPUs, not Intel).

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    Cordorb
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    Re: Z370 Boards and cases of VRM/mosfet overheating. 2018/05/13 19:26:10 (permalink)
    I have not though about this in years but with more cores per CPU on the way you are right.
    Air cooling does throw a lot of air around cooling other chips and now a lot of people are going water.
     
    I was reading this as a nice review to catch me up 
     
    https://www.tweaktown.com/guides/8482/intel-z370-motherboard-buyers-guide/index5.html
     
    I always like to see the close up motherboard pictures.

     
     
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    Gawg36
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    Re: Z370 Boards and cases of VRM/mosfet overheating. 2018/05/13 22:18:51 (permalink)
    jonkrmr
    Z370 & Coffee Lake-S was a knee jerk reaction from Intel to combat AMD Ryzen. You are right, it is really just a re-branded Z270. The VRM design on Z270 is not really up to the loads required for Coffee Lake-S 6 core CPUs as it was designed for 4 core CPU power loads.
    I also have a Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7 board. This board has a small 40mm fan behind the main VRM under the plastic shield on the back of the board that will kick in at I think 90 degree C but you can change that in BIOS on the board. I have mine set to run at full speed all the time and have not seen my VRM temps under load go much past 50 degree C. VRM heat sinks are designed to require air flow over them to be efficient. They usually get this from the heat sink\fan air flow from your CPU cooler. When water cooling your CPU, you do not get this air flow from the CPU over the VRMs.
    Z390 boards should have a VRM design suited to 6-8 core CPU power demands (Z470 is the new chip set for AMD CPUs, not Intel).




    I may be wrong, but I have a feeling as long as Z370 boards and i7 or i5 8x00 k are around we may hear more about this. Since posting in fact I read that several boards, mid or budget have problems. They may have only 6 or in some cases 4 VRMs without a heatsink. If OCing they are likely to overheat. But folks who buy those boards are most unlikely to OC I guess.
    The thing is, that most manufacturers (I believe only Gigabyte are the exception, and only high end board.) include a sensor dedicated to reading VRM. Even then a good board may have 10+2 or similar or more, so I wonder, does that sensor measure just one VRM (plus close surroundings) or does it intelligently average it. I doubt it's averaged, but I really don't know, and would like to.
     
    To add to the last point of monitoring, this can't be done by typical home users as a heat sensor or even infrared would be the only way beyond speculation or even touching them! Ooch!!
    Ironically this puts the focus on Gigabyte as it's easy to get a reading. But there are increasing rumors of some highend boards which will be OCed throttling. People don't know for sure why
    but a few specialist sites have tested this and found the VRMs are reaching max before throttle. That's hot! Temps vary for each Mosfet/VRM. Luckily the gaming seven has some of the best
    in the business which cut off at 135c and have a max of 150c! It's easy to check this with a little searching, I did to verify this. It's true. (the 135c I got directly from a query to a gigabyte engineer.).
     
    So JONKRMR, I want to thank you so much for your post. I have that board and was worried. Also good to know that the little fan can be set to always on. I will be doing this, and watching carefully
    over the first few weeks. Seems with that board most are very good, but some are terrible as the heatsink has little pressure on the heat pads between it and the mosF. I have been advised to tighten
    the screws at the back of the board. A total of 6. I did this and to my amazement sure enough NONE of them were snug. At least a another full turn did the trick without using too much pressure.
    Really glad I came across that info. It was by chance but I've spent many hours since looking into it.
     
    Your VRM temps underload are IMO excellent! Although they are rated to function at full wack beyond 100c, I get uneasy if they go much past 80c. I'll post when I finally finish the build.
    Just to confirm, you have had no problems with your gaming 7 right? VRMs or other stuff?
     
    Finally I should qualify all this with a frequent refrain. These over temps on some boards are achieved primarily by running Prime 95 small ffts. So even with a moderately uncomfortable heat
    after running that for a while in real world gaming etc It should reach no where near that. Seems Prime 95 small ffts stress the power delivery system more than other more generalized bench
    and testing programs, which is good. But still, I'll try it once, and monitor frequently for real life stuff (gaming the like.)
     
    Interesting and potentially disturbing stuff. A simple transfer of z270 voltage regulation components to an overclocked coffee lake i7 isn't up to it in many cases. But usually when OCing it should be said.
     
    P.S. You are right, at default the little fan kicks in at 90c. Finally do you water cool? I have the arctic 240 which has four fans push pull out the box. Also my case is very large 780T with 2 extra fans I added so a
    total of 5 case fans. Trying to get one fan to blow directly on the socket, but this case has no side mount.
     
    What do you think? I mean if you have any other ideas or stuff to add. You clearly know your stuff having
    already set the little fan to full on, probably without hearing about this "new," issue, particularly z370s with an OCed i7 8700k. Thanks!
     
     

    1. Taichi z370. i7 8086k @ 5,2GHz Stable.
    16GB G.Skill Trident Z @ 3,000MHz.
      EVGA GTX 1080ti  FTW3. Acer XB270HU IPS 1440p 144Hz Refresh with G-Sync. PSU Corsair AX850. Cloud two cans, and Creative T20 stereo. Realtek HD on board sound.
     
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    Gawg36
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    Re: Z370 Boards and cases of VRM/mosfet overheating. 2018/05/13 22:45:50 (permalink)
    Cordorb
    I have not though about this in years but with more cores per CPU on the way you are right.
    Air cooling does throw a lot of air around cooling other chips and now a lot of people are going water.
     
    I was reading this as a nice review to catch me up 
     
    https://www.tweaktown.com/guides/8482/intel-z370-motherboard-buyers-guide/index5.html
     
    I always like to see the close up motherboard pictures.




    Thanks for the reply and link!!

    1. Taichi z370. i7 8086k @ 5,2GHz Stable.
    16GB G.Skill Trident Z @ 3,000MHz.
      EVGA GTX 1080ti  FTW3. Acer XB270HU IPS 1440p 144Hz Refresh with G-Sync. PSU Corsair AX850. Cloud two cans, and Creative T20 stereo. Realtek HD on board sound.
     
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    Gawg36
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    Re: Z370 Boards and cases of VRM/mosfet overheating. 2018/05/13 22:54:45 (permalink)
    Quick update: I got a reply back from Silicon lottery who have 1000s of customers. The tech said, they have had problems and complaints about this, but none with the high end gaming 7 (Gigabyte).
     
    Just guessing, but seems to be a problem if people OC (silicon lottery delids and tests highest stable) with a low end board, or a board with low quality or insufficient phases to share the load. There is
    also the factor of proper firm contact with mid/high boards that have a heat sink for the power system. The crazy led's in some cases run through the gaps in heatsink block!! Crazy.
     
    The original Gigabtyte Ultra gaming vs 1.0 seems the worst. In fact it's no longer available, only vs.2. But I don't see that they have done much with power delivery system. Odd, but something for anyone
    in the business of building a new coffee lake with k series CPU which they plan to OC. Better get a decent board!!

    1. Taichi z370. i7 8086k @ 5,2GHz Stable.
    16GB G.Skill Trident Z @ 3,000MHz.
      EVGA GTX 1080ti  FTW3. Acer XB270HU IPS 1440p 144Hz Refresh with G-Sync. PSU Corsair AX850. Cloud two cans, and Creative T20 stereo. Realtek HD on board sound.
     
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    jonkrmr
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    Re: Z370 Boards and cases of VRM/mosfet overheating. 2018/05/14 08:07:08 (permalink)
    Gawg36
    jonkrmr
    Z370 & Coffee Lake-S was a knee jerk reaction from Intel to combat AMD Ryzen. You are right, it is really just a re-branded Z270. The VRM design on Z270 is not really up to the loads required for Coffee Lake-S 6 core CPUs as it was designed for 4 core CPU power loads.
    I also have a Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7 board. This board has a small 40mm fan behind the main VRM under the plastic shield on the back of the board that will kick in at I think 90 degree C but you can change that in BIOS on the board. I have mine set to run at full speed all the time and have not seen my VRM temps under load go much past 50 degree C. VRM heat sinks are designed to require air flow over them to be efficient. They usually get this from the heat sink\fan air flow from your CPU cooler. When water cooling your CPU, you do not get this air flow from the CPU over the VRMs.
    Z390 boards should have a VRM design suited to 6-8 core CPU power demands (Z470 is the new chip set for AMD CPUs, not Intel).




    I may be wrong, but I have a feeling as long as Z370 boards and i7 or i5 8x00 k are around we may hear more about this. Since posting in fact I read that several boards, mid or budget have problems. They may have only 6 or in some cases 4 VRMs without a heatsink. If OCing they are likely to overheat. But folks who buy those boards are most unlikely to OC I guess.
    The thing is, that most manufacturers (I believe only Gigabyte are the exception, and only high end board.) include a sensor dedicated to reading VRM. Even then a good board may have 10+2 or similar or more, so I wonder, does that sensor measure just one VRM (plus close surroundings) or does it intelligently average it. I doubt it's averaged, but I really don't know, and would like to.
     
    To add to the last point of monitoring, this can't be done by typical home users as a heat sensor or even infrared would be the only way beyond speculation or even touching them! Ooch!!
    Ironically this puts the focus on Gigabyte as it's easy to get a reading. But there are increasing rumors of some highend boards which will be OCed throttling. People don't know for sure why
    but a few specialist sites have tested this and found the VRMs are reaching max before throttle. That's hot! Temps vary for each Mosfet/VRM. Luckily the gaming seven has some of the best
    in the business which cut off at 135c and have a max of 150c! It's easy to check this with a little searching, I did to verify this. It's true. (the 135c I got directly from a query to a gigabyte engineer.).
     
    So JONKRMR, I want to thank you so much for your post. I have that board and was worried. Also good to know that the little fan can be set to always on. I will be doing this, and watching carefully
    over the first few weeks. Seems with that board most are very good, but some are terrible as the heatsink has little pressure on the heat pads between it and the mosF. I have been advised to tighten
    the screws at the back of the board. A total of 6. I did this and to my amazement sure enough NONE of them were snug. At least a another full turn did the trick without using too much pressure.
    Really glad I came across that info. It was by chance but I've spent many hours since looking into it.
     
    Your VRM temps underload are IMO excellent! Although they are rated to function at full wack beyond 100c, I get uneasy if they go much past 80c. I'll post when I finally finish the build.
    Just to confirm, you have had no problems with your gaming 7 right? VRMs or other stuff?
     
    Finally I should qualify all this with a frequent refrain. These over temps on some boards are achieved primarily by running Prime 95 small ffts. So even with a moderately uncomfortable heat
    after running that for a while in real world gaming etc It should reach no where near that. Seems Prime 95 small ffts stress the power delivery system more than other more generalized bench
    and testing programs, which is good. But still, I'll try it once, and monitor frequently for real life stuff (gaming the like.)
     
    Interesting and potentially disturbing stuff. A simple transfer of z270 voltage regulation components to an overclocked coffee lake i7 isn't up to it in many cases. But usually when OCing it should be said.
     
    P.S. You are right, at default the little fan kicks in at 90c. Finally do you water cool? I have the arctic 240 which has four fans push pull out the box. Also my case is very large 780T with 2 extra fans I added so a
    total of 5 case fans. Trying to get one fan to blow directly on the socket, but this case has no side mount.
     
    What do you think? I mean if you have any other ideas or stuff to add. You clearly know your stuff having
    already set the little fan to full on, probably without hearing about this "new," issue, particularly z370s with an OCed i7 8700k. Thanks!
     
     


    Gawg36,
    Prime95 is not real world load\temps, you should never get this kind of load in real world use unless you are doing some off the wall stuff with you PC that heavily uses AVX.
    Even then, you can offset the AVX in BIOS so that when running apps that use AXV extensions, the CPU will down clock to a slower speed.
     
    My board has run solid with absolutely no issues what so ever for 3+ months now. Excellent board.
    The only other thing I did is I am running a NVMe SSD in the top slot under the CPU and these can tend to run a bit hot and throttle so I added a custom 50mm fan over the NVMe drive to help keep it cool (you can see what I did in my Mod Rigs in my sig). With the fan, I never go over the low 40's c max on the NVMe SSD controller.
     
    Again, Z370 and Coffee Lake-S was a knee jerk reaction to AMD Ryzen and Intel rushed it out the door quickly. The upcoming Z390 boards should address any short comings of Z370 VRM design when Intel releases it here hopefully by the end of this year but more likely start of next when they finally get their act together with their 10nm fabrication process they keep delaying.........
     
    The first board I bought was the Gaming Ultra 1.0 and is was crap from a VRM standpoint, sold it on Craig's List two weeks after I bought and installed it and got the Gaming 7 (my fault for trying to save a few $$$, should have known better to try to cheap out ).
     
    I did the same research you did about the VRM temp issues and that was the big reason I ultimately went with the Gaming 7 board. Gigabyte does not really advertise the small fan behind the VRM on the Gaming 7 board as I think it was a last minute addition to combat the VRM temp issues seen with Coffee Lake-S and Z370 VRM design but found out about it when looking in the BIOS and saw a fan reading for it there. After a bit of digging on the internet, found mention of the fan on this board from reviews of it.
     
    You have nothing to worry about here, the Gaming 7 board is a solid, quality board and should give you flawless operation for the years to come .
     
    Good case airflow is always critical especially if over clocking and water cooling as designers always assume the CPU will be air cooled and that will create some air flow around the board and its' components which you loose when you water cool.
     
    Have fun with your new build my friend .
     
     

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    Gawg36
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    Re: Z370 Boards and cases of VRM/mosfet overheating. 2018/05/14 23:38:39 (permalink)
    Great post, Jonkmr! 
     
    It's highly relevant especially as you actually had the ultra 1.0, then experienced the issues I mentioned, and now have a gaming 7 instead (same as me) to prevent such problems! 
    After reading your very helpful posts and doing a bit more research I can say I am no longer a nervous wreck. Looking forward to finishing and turning on the new gaming 7, delid i7 8700k tested system!!
    Thanks very much indeed. 
    About Prime 95 small ffts, yeah I know what you said is correct. I guess it could be used to check for a very worst case scenario, but as you alluded, those conditions, especially with heavy AVX  will not be encountered in gaming, general use etc.
     
    Finally, I'm planning to offset AVX by 2, in the BIOS. Which seems good practice. It's also how Silicon lottery test their delids for max stable.
     
    Cheers!!

    1. Taichi z370. i7 8086k @ 5,2GHz Stable.
    16GB G.Skill Trident Z @ 3,000MHz.
      EVGA GTX 1080ti  FTW3. Acer XB270HU IPS 1440p 144Hz Refresh with G-Sync. PSU Corsair AX850. Cloud two cans, and Creative T20 stereo. Realtek HD on board sound.
     
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    Gawg36
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    Re: Z370 Boards and cases of VRM/mosfet overheating. 2018/05/14 23:50:48 (permalink)
    Cordorb
    I have not though about this in years but with more cores per CPU on the way you are right.
    Air cooling does throw a lot of air around cooling other chips and now a lot of people are going water.
     
    I was reading this as a nice review to catch me up 
     
    https://www.tweaktown.com/guides/8482/intel-z370-motherboard-buyers-guide/index5.html
     
    I always like to see the close up motherboard pictures.




    That was a good read. They also went on to review the z370 Gigabyte Aorus gaming 7 flag ship board. Seem all is good. Thanks.

    1. Taichi z370. i7 8086k @ 5,2GHz Stable.
    16GB G.Skill Trident Z @ 3,000MHz.
      EVGA GTX 1080ti  FTW3. Acer XB270HU IPS 1440p 144Hz Refresh with G-Sync. PSU Corsair AX850. Cloud two cans, and Creative T20 stereo. Realtek HD on board sound.
     
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