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My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design

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jasonkresge
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2018/05/11 00:06:18 (permalink)
Given the multiple EVGA products that I own, I figured this belonged in general HW rather than any specific EVGA component forum. And I want to be clear, I'm an EVGA fan. Maybe even a fanboy. I'm making this post in the hopes that someone from EVGA sees it, relays it to the correct department, and it gets considered for future design decisions.
 
As of right now I own the following products in my primary system | EVGA Z270 stinger | EVGA GTX 1060 SSC 6GB | EVGA G2-650
Secondary system has | EVGA GTX 950 SC+ | EVGA G3-550
Every Nvidia GPU I've owned since 2006 has been EVGA. 6800GS, 7600GT, 7800GT, 7900GT, 7900GTO, 9600GT, GTX 560, GTX 750ti, GTX 970, and I know I'm missing a few. Even owned an EVGA nForce 650i Ultra mobo for many years.
 
And here's my reasoning for leaning towards moving away from these product lines (and what I feel EVGA should do to move in a direction that would benefit many gamers).
 
EVGA Power Supplies:
 
Please consider SFX designs. My next PSUs will be SFX. I have an NZXT H200i (ATX obstructs GPU airflow), and wife is geting In-Win A1 ITX (will remove the included PSU).
 
EVGA Mini-ITX Motherboard:
 
I was pretty critical of the H370 Stinger when it was announced. Now that competitors have launched their products, I want to point out why I feel that the H370 Stinger is such a flawed product (with many similar criticisms applying to my Z270 Stinger). I'll be comparing the H370 Stinger to the Asus ROG Strix H370-I Gaming, which is a direct competitor.
  • Price | Asus wins, $139.99 to $159.99 (MSRP), which is an embarrassing difference given what I'm about to list below.
  • M.2 2280 | EVGA has one, on the rear. Asus has two, one rear and one front (with a thermal guard).
  • Ethernet | Dual (Asus) vs. Single (EVGA)
  • WiFi | Pre-installed with fixed rear connectors (Asus) vs. DIY (EVGA) (they're both Intel AC9560, same HW, just installation is different)
  • USB Connectivity | This one is subjective. Asus has 4x 3.1 Gen 1 (3 Type-A, 1 Type-C), and 2x 3.1 Gen 2. EVGA has 2x 2.0, 2x 3.1 Gen 1, and 2x 3.1 Gen 2 (no Type-C). Both offer 6 ports. Asus offers one Type-C and all high speed, whereas EVGA offers 6 Type-A, but two are legacy.
  • Aesthetics | Asus has RGB (this is a non-issue for me, a negative if it can't be disabled), and an i/o cover plus thermal guard. If you have a beefy tower cooler you won't see most of this, but if you have a low-profile air cooler or AIO/water block, the EVGA looks naked in comparison.
  • Warranty | EVGA wins hands down. 3-years out of the box, expandable up to 10-years, and EVGA will actually honor it. Asus' warranty is 3-years on paper, but they generally don't honor the warranty on their motherboards without a fight.
When you compare the boards, the Asus looks like the superior option in virtually every area where they differ. And that would be fine if EVGA priced accordingly. But they didn't. With an MSRP of $139.99 and already nearing $10 off in street/etail prices for the Asus, EVGA absolutely should not launch at $159.99 as previously indicated. Asus' B360 board at $129.99 MSRP has this beat (drops 2 USB 3.1 Gen 1 in favor of USB 2.0, drops an Ethernet port, and somehow maintains the 20 PCI-E lanes!?). Oh, and Asus' H370 is the most expensive H370 on Newegg. Asrock and Gigabyte have even cheaper models. EVGA is just WAY overpriced in this segment for what they offer.
 
EVGA GPUs:
 
I'm not rich enough to have purchased every Pascal offering from EVGA, but I can directly compare the 1060 SSC 6GB (I own it) to MSI's Gaming X. To be fair, the Gaming X is priced (at launch, before the craziness) on par with the FTW, not the SSC. But most of this comparison is still applicable.
 
The Gaming X uses a single aluminum block with a horizontal fin array, as seen HERE - http://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2016/7/57ff335f-9469-40af-808d-4f109b432d01.png. This means that the air disperses through the heatsink, and both fans impact the entire length of it. Air hits the PCB and goes in all directions, to include some out the rear of the case.
 
By comparison, EVGA uses two smaller aluminum blocks, one beneath each fan, with a vertical fin array. You can see this here - https://images.evga.com/articles/01036/cooling/1060_exploded_EN.jpg. Aside from the heatpipes, there's no transfer of heat between the two heatsinks, with each fan responsible for its own half (good for ICX, bad for ACX). The air also primarily disperses in two directions, towards the mobo, or towards the case side panel. And because of the vacuum caused by the spinning fans, a significant amount of the exhausted air goes right back into those intakes, causing the GPU cooler to recycle heated air.
 
In an ATX mid-tower, this isn't huge, but it's noticeable. The MSI Gaming X hit ~65° in my testing, while the EVGA hit 74°. The MSI was also quieter. This got far worse in my tiny H200i - MSI was 67°, and the EVGA hit 81° (throttle point is 82°). That's because this case isn't as wide, meaning the GPU's side exhaust is closer to the glass panel. That combined with the PSU starving the GPU's front fan means that the card endlessly recycles hot air. An SFX PSU would help, but the MSI doesn't need the assistance.
 
Part of the MSI's advantage is the wider heatsink and larger fans, so the EVGA is handicapped in that regard. And if the FTW model had a wider cooler, then we could point out that my comparison is unfair. But the FTW uses the same cooler. And by splitting the heatsink and using a vertical fin array, you do this card no favors. If a 1060 is doing that in my case, I wouldn't want to touch a 1070 or 1070ti with the same cooler (some models have the wider cooler with more surface area and larger fans, but the same underlying problem remains).
 
Conclusion:
 
I love EVGA. Their warranty and customer service is second to none. But I feel like the engineering is second to almost everyone else. The power supplies are amazing, really, top notch. Might want to expand into the SFX market though as Corsair currently has this unchallenged and it's a growing market. And while we're talking about small form factors, ITX motherboards are also a growing market. EVGA has uniquely managed to be last to market with an H370 ITX, while being the least capable board, yet still costing the most. And the GPUs, as great as they are, rely on brand name and customer service reputation (well deserved, again), but otherwise have a bland, weak cooler.
 
I hope my post is seen for what it is truly meant to be, constructive criticism from a long-time fan, and not whining/complaining. And I hope that this post was useful to at least someone. For those who read it, a sincere thank you for your time.
#1

11 Replies Related Threads

    Vlada011
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/11 06:18:34 (permalink)
    ASUS is different company than EVGA with far more resources and ASUS best section is Motherboard.
    But somehow in some moments I miss EVGA motherboard no matter on less features, I don't even use them, RGB is useless for me.
    I can't give score to motherboard without RGB disabled.
    It's very hard on EVGA position to build mid and low range motherboards competitive with ASUS and GIGABYTE.
    Special ASUS, last 3-4 years they gone far from other manufacturers in motherboard section and immediately ask higher price.
    All of their motherboards price was increased from 20 to 100$ depend of level.
     
    ASUS speciality are motherboards. EVGA is 1st with this...
    Nicest GPU PCB in history... 
     

     
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by Vlada011 - 2018/05/11 07:27:53

    i7-5820K 4.5GHz/RVE10-EK Monoblock/Dominator Platinum 2666/ASUS GTX1080Ti Poseidon/SBZxR /Samsung 970 EVO PLus 1TB/850 EVO 1TB /EVGA 1200P2/Lian Li PC-O11WXC/EK XRES D5 Revo 100 Glass/Coolstream PE360-Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM x3
    http://www.evga.com
    http://www.intel.com
    http://www.nvidia.com
    https://watercool.de
    http://www.lian-li.com
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHMun5xiRe0
     
    https://xdevs.com/guide/2080ti_kpe/#intro
    https://www.evga.com/articles/01386/evga-sr-3-dark/
     
     
     

     
     
    #2
    seth89
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/11 16:12:09 (permalink)
    It’s good to try other brands. I did a asus/ AMD build this time around instead of my normal EVGA/intel build. Oh and my last build I did R9 290s instead of EVGA gtx####.
    It’s fun to mix things up.
    post edited by seth89 - 2018/05/12 04:10:42


    #3
    MSim
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/12 01:31:15 (permalink)
    I try to recommend people to take the time to compare detailed specs like you did, before making a decision on which hardware to go with. That can save them from kicking themselves in the future.
     
    Comparing detailed specs will help you uncover things mfg are trying to hide from you. When i was researching Z270 motherboards, i noticed evga was using generic details like "Audio – 8 Channel HD + Optical" on Z270 FTW-K mobo. Once i dug deeper, i notice they were using Realtek 1155 audio chip, while mfg like ASUS, GIGABYTE and MSi mobo's come with Realtek latest audio chip S1220. The same thing goes for motherboard audio software, if the mfg doesn't talk about it or lists any of it's features, that should send up a red flag for you to look into why that is, if you plan on using onboard audio. 
     
     
     


     
    #4
    Vlada011
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/12 07:11:35 (permalink)
    ASUS is for me main manufacturer of motherboards, that doesn't mean that I would not use some other motherboard because their prices are insane. I don't like colorful GIGABYTE, MSI, ASRock and EVGA is only option than.
    But they build black/silver motherboard and you think that's it... But that silver is transparent and you see RGB LED below and how LED shine he uncover PCB and surface of motheboard below shield. 
    And playing with effects and shield give them opportunity to ask up to 650-700$ for this...
     
    This is Rampage VI Extreme... PCB show obvious high end motherboard, but price should be 400-450$.
    Not 200$ more. They charge because shield and RGB LEDs.
     
     

     
    It's one beautifull PCB, everyone would like him, but not 650 euro.
     

    i7-5820K 4.5GHz/RVE10-EK Monoblock/Dominator Platinum 2666/ASUS GTX1080Ti Poseidon/SBZxR /Samsung 970 EVO PLus 1TB/850 EVO 1TB /EVGA 1200P2/Lian Li PC-O11WXC/EK XRES D5 Revo 100 Glass/Coolstream PE360-Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM x3
    http://www.evga.com
    http://www.intel.com
    http://www.nvidia.com
    https://watercool.de
    http://www.lian-li.com
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHMun5xiRe0
     
    https://xdevs.com/guide/2080ti_kpe/#intro
    https://www.evga.com/articles/01386/evga-sr-3-dark/
     
     
     

     
     
    #5
    rjohnson11
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/12 07:21:41 (permalink)
    I love EVGA products but EVGA doesn't make any AMD motherboards. When the time came I decided upon AMD Threadripper and a TR4 motherboard. If EVGA had made an AMD TR4 motherboard I would have purchased from them.

    AMD Ryzen 9 7950X,  Corsair Mp700 Pro M.2, 64GB Corsair Dominator Titanium DDR5  X670E Steel Legend, MSI RTX 4090 Associate Code: H5U80QBH6BH0AXF. I am NOT an employee of EVGA

    #6
    Vlada011
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/12 07:57:58 (permalink)
    rjohnson11
    I love EVGA products but EVGA doesn't make any AMD motherboards. When the time came I decided upon AMD Threadripper and a TR4 motherboard. If EVGA had made an AMD TR4 motherboard I would have purchased from them.




    Many people would bought EVGA Motherboard for AMD processors.
    And I would like to see some EVGA Threadripper E-ATX Classified monster.
    Now when friend bring me my parts from Germany for watercooling I will see what to do, first to build my first loop and share pictures and than decision what to do for next build, there is a lot option on table, now even Intel Anniversary i7-8086K CPU.
    I could find 1950X and i9-7900X for same price, extremely good. 
    First choice would be Dark and i9-7900X because 4.5-4.7GHz mean a lot to me for gaming.
    4.5 is enough for 4K. Small OC, cool processor, perfect look, watercooling, 3x CORSAIR ML120 PRO fans on 1500RPM Silent... perfect.
     

    i7-5820K 4.5GHz/RVE10-EK Monoblock/Dominator Platinum 2666/ASUS GTX1080Ti Poseidon/SBZxR /Samsung 970 EVO PLus 1TB/850 EVO 1TB /EVGA 1200P2/Lian Li PC-O11WXC/EK XRES D5 Revo 100 Glass/Coolstream PE360-Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM x3
    http://www.evga.com
    http://www.intel.com
    http://www.nvidia.com
    https://watercool.de
    http://www.lian-li.com
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHMun5xiRe0
     
    https://xdevs.com/guide/2080ti_kpe/#intro
    https://www.evga.com/articles/01386/evga-sr-3-dark/
     
     
     

     
     
    #7
    fearpoint
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/12 10:39:23 (permalink)
    Yes there is a premium price on EVGA products, but it's not enough to where it pushes me towards other products usually. Having dealt with garbage products from the like of Asus in the past I can accept paying a few more dollars for a solid warranty and RMA process. I've used it in the past and was pleased, whereas when I used other company's RMA it was atrocious. If you're looking for the cheapest hardware available EVGA isn't going to be it. As for feature comparison, most of what you listed with that Asus motherboard doesn't even interest me, so unless you are specifically looking for those features it's not a automatic win. For example M.2 is a novelty, including 2 is just hilarious for a ITX. 
     
    Maybe for your specific setup the evga gpu wasn't the best choice, but generally evga's gpu are far superior than most out there and that most certainly includes MSI which has a long history of terrible designs and materials because they are competing for the cheapest market. Duke anyone? 
    #8
    MSim
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/12 14:15:25 (permalink)
    It's not about the "cheapest" motherboards out there. It's about having the better specs and features at a lower price. The majority of motherboards sold, they work like they should out of the box. EVGA warranty isn't what it use to be, as we have seen on here in the past year. The product has a blemish on it, warranty declined, doesn't matter if the blemish had nothing to do with the product failing.   
     
    My RMA experience
    • 4 GPU's
    • 2 Keyboards
    • 1 Monitor
    • 1 Mouse
    • 0 Motherboards, CPU's, PSU's or RAM
     
    Do your own research and detailed specs/features comparison between mfg. That will educate you on all the features available and allow you to make a better decision on the hardware you purchase.
     
     


     
    #9
    deathlokke
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/12 15:01:03 (permalink)
    Personally, I've had a lot of issues with ASUS motherboards, and won't be buying another one. X79 just randomly died, Z77 in which the audio controller failed, and now my dad has an AMD AM3+ that seems to be experiencing USB issues (I'll be troubleshooting once I have time). I've built several systems with MSI boards that haven't had any issues yet, and I love the EVGA boards I've used. 
    #10
    Cordorb
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/12 19:35:45 (permalink)
    it does seem odd that EVGA z270 motherboards are not on the list anymore ?
    many years of EVGA items and only had to get one GTX-580 fixed.
     
    My EVGA Z370 MB one of the best is a long time--- I do wish we had a better BIOS
    I am not sure how a new builder gets by these days with out a manual for BIOS in the MB package.

     
     
    #11
    jasonkresge
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    Re: My next build might not have a single EVGA component | General feedback on EVGA design 2018/05/13 12:06:02 (permalink)
    fearpoint For example M.2 is a novelty, including 2 is just hilarious for a ITX. 
     




    M.2 is far from a novelty. I currently use a Samsung Evo 960 1TB as my primary drive. Speeds aside (most users won't notice the speed bump from SATA To NVME), use of M.2 means two fewer cables in my case (SATA and SATA Power). Cable management matters to me and I don't mind paying extra for it. Despite your insinuations, money isn't a problem for me. I simply expect to get more if I pay more. That's why I was shocked to see EVGA's H370 costing more than every other H370 board, while offering fewer features than every other H370 board.
     
    Also, 2x M.2 slots aside, having one front-mounted under a thermal guard reduces heat-induced wear and performance throttling. That's the main perk that EVGA Stinger users (like myself) are going to miss.
     
    fearpoint For example M.2 is a novelty, including 2 is just hilarious for a ITX. 
     
    Maybe for your specific setup the evga gpu wasn't the best choice, but generally evga's gpu are far superior than most out there and that most certainly includes MSI which has a long history of terrible designs and materials because they are competing for the cheapest market. Duke anyone? 


     
    EVGA's heatsink is smaller than the competition. Their fans are of lower quality than some of the competition. This results in higher temps than better cards, such as the MSI Gaming X.
     
    When two companies are selling two similar products at the same price, they likely had a similar budget for components, assembly, and possibly even R&D. EVGA allocates a large part of their budget to customer service (and it shows!). MSI's additional budget seems to go towards engineering and component cost.
     
    To put it simply, MSI/Asus have the superior product out of the box more often than not. But if something goes wrong, EVGA is going to have your back in a better way than the other companies. I've been victim to Asus's RMA process before, which is what made me such a big fan of EVGA.
     
    My point wasn't to put EVGA in a bad light. It was constructive criticism that I hope EVGA takes to improve their products. Cheaping out on a GPU heatsink is never a good idea (just ask MSI about their 1080ti Armor!). And selling an H370 board for a higher cost than literally every other vendor, while making the worst board (on paper, because BIOS and stability matter as well) is generally not a good idea.
     
    As for the PSU, I just want EVGA to move into the SFX market before I make my SFX purchase. I trust them more than Corsair, the only current realistic option.
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