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What is making PPD vary so much

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Ranmacanada
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2017/10/17 20:43:24 (permalink)
(this post was moved, to create its own thread by Cool GTX)
 
Well before the miners took over team Curecoin, you could get about 1.3 million PPD on a 1080Ti, now you're lucky if you get 1.05 million PPD on a 1080Ti.  Makes me wonder if it's even worth having it fold as my 1080's can almost do that much on less power. It's frustrating I tell ya!  There were more consistent work units that gave you more points, now you're just fighting for points and it sucks.  I might complain about it a lot, but you other folders know I'm right.  I used to average 3 million PPD, now I'm lucky if I can get over 2.6 on a good day!
post edited by Cool GTX - 2017/10/18 14:22:21

 

ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI)
AMD Ryzen 2700
Fold for the CURE!
EVGA 1080 FTW
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    QuintLeo
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 11:10:18 (permalink)
    The PPD of an individual card isn't affected by what anyone else does with their folding - the Curecoin and FoldingCoin rewards are what are affected.
     I NEVER saw 1.3 MPPD consistantly out of my 1080ti cards - occasional work units sure, consistant for a whole day never.
     
     More likely someone with a "not 1080ti friendly" project dumped a bunch of work units on their server(s) - THAT can have a major effect.
     
     (edit title Cool GTX)
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2017/10/22 14:39:30

    Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding.
     I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again.
     
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    Ranmacanada
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 14:10:15 (permalink)
    Well all I can say is my 1080Ti is scoring considerably worse now that vorsholk et al have destroyed the amount of WU that are available.  Looking back on my WU history, it was consistently scoring over 1.2-1.3 million PPD, and now it barely breaches 1.  My 1080's are are anywhere from 650-950, they are swinging so widly these days.  But I have take this off topic, so I think that's enough.  I do apologize.  
     
    (edit title Cool GTX)
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2017/10/22 14:40:02

     

    ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI)
    AMD Ryzen 2700
    Fold for the CURE!
    EVGA 1080 FTW
    EVGA 1080Ti Hybrid

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    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 15:38:44 (permalink)
    The ppd is most likely based on the difficulty of the work unit. As cure and folding coin became prevalent, the difficult tasks probably dumped heavily to get the information solved ASAP. After a while, the amount of difficult units has to decrease, because it is impossible to keep the difficult workflow going, when everyone is trying to make money. Once the cure and folding profits drop to a negative, I bet the ppd goes back up.
     
    (edit title Cool GTX)
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2017/10/22 14:40:31
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    Chris21010
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 15:39:41 (permalink)
    PPD can and will change over time due to the volume of work units for each project ID that is available to be run at any given point in time. for example take a look at project id 11409 avg PPD of 1,265,897 when compared to 9414 with an avg ppd of 926,538 it's easy to see that if project 9414 has higher work priority over 11409 then your avg will fall.
     
    note: all numbers based off a 1080ti
     
    (edit title Cool GTX)
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2017/10/22 14:41:05


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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 16:45:51 (permalink)
    Number of Atoms http://fah-web.stanford.edu/new/psummary.html 
    Generally the Higher Number of Atoms give you a Higher Base Credit. It is about Folding Proteins.
    See How are points determined? Below
     
    The Folding@home project (FAH) is dedicated to understanding protein folding, the diseases that result from protein misfolding and aggregation, and novel computational ways to develop new drugs in general. Here, we briefly describe our goals, what we are doing, and some highlights so far.
     
     A distributed computing project must not only run calculations on millions of PCs, but such projects must produce results, especially in the form of peer-reviewed publications, public lectures, and other ways that disseminate the results from FAH to the greater scientific community. In the sidebar, you will find links to our progress in different areas. 

    What is protein folding and how is it related to disease?

    Proteins are necklaces of amino acids, long chain molecules. They are the basis of how biology gets things done. As enzymes, they are the driving force behind all of the biochemical reactions that make biology work. As structural elements, they are the main constituent of our bones, muscles, hair, skin and blood vessels. As antibodies, they recognize invading elements and allow the immune system to get rid of the unwanted invaders. For these reasons, scientists have sequenced the human genome – the blueprint for all of the proteins in biology – but how can we understand what these proteins do and how they work?
    However, only knowing this sequence tells us little about what the protein does and how it does it. In order to carry out their function (e.g. as enzymes or antibodies), they must take on a particular shape, also known as a “fold.” Thus, proteins are truly amazing machines: before they do their work, they assemble themselves! This self-assembly is called “folding.”

    What happens if proteins don’t fold correctly?

    Diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease, Huntington’s disease, cystic fibrosis, BSE (Mad Cow disease), an inherited form of emphysema, and even many cancers are believed to result from protein misfolding. When proteins misfold, they can clump together (“aggregate”). These clumps can often gather in the brain, where they are believed to cause the symptoms of Mad Cow or Alzheimer’s disease 
     
    http://folding.stanford.edu/support/faq/points/
     
    General questions
     
    How are points determined?
    Points are determined by the performance of each contributor’s folding hardware (CPU, GPU, etc.) relative to a reference benchmark machine. Before sending out any Work Units for a new project, we benchmark one or or more Work Units from that project on a dedicated machine. We then use the results to determine the points for all of the WUs in that project. On top of these base credits, we may add bonus points, described below.
     
    When will my points, username, or team # appear in the Folding Statistics?
    When you first start, your username will not appear in the statistics until the software has completed its first Work Unit (WU). The stats are updated once an hour, on the hour, so they will not show up on the stats pages immediately. If you created a new team, it will appear right away.

    Why are there deviations in the amount of points received?
    Not all Work Units are the same. Some of the researchers in our group are studying the behaviors of small proteins, while others are focusing on larger and more complex systems. These differences cause deviations of points to be above or below the average. Some computer systems are more efficient at processing certain types of projects than others, which adds additional complexity to the goal of making the points fair, even, and balanced. Evening out these deviations is one of the reasons why we use a benchmark machine. We do additional balancing in our beta and advanced stages of testing before we distribute the work to all of Folding@home.

    Bonus Points
    The prompt completion of Work Units (WUs) is very important for the science we’re doing. In order to study the proteins we’re interested in, we need be able get the results back quickly. A faster turnaround also means that we can launch projects that are larger and more difficult than ever before. So in 2010 we introduced the Quick Return Bonus (QRB), which gives extra points to users who rapidly and reliably complete WUs. The QRB has been fairly successful in aligning points with scientific value, and we will continue to use it.

    What are the qualifications for the QRB?
    The bonus is applied for users who use a passkey, have successfully returned at least 10 bonus-eligible WUs, have successfully returned 80% or more of assigned WUs, and returned the unit before its Timeout (formerly Preferred Deadline). Bonus points do not apply to partial returns.

    How is the QRB determined?
    We have a single benchmark machine, its most important component is its processor: a Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz. The machine’s OS is Linux. Here are the steps that we use to determine points for a project:
    1. Take a WU from a project and run it on the benchmark machine until it finishes.
    2. Measure the time it took to complete. Base credit awarded for the WU is then just a scaling factor multiplied by this time.
    3. The timeout and deadline values are also simple functions of the time it took to complete. These are set primarily to give a donor a reasonable amount of time to finish a WU, but short enough so that any WU that gets sent out but not processed (e.g. donor quits FAH, forgets to re-start that WU, their computer dies, etc) can be retrieved and sent out again in a reasonable amount of time. Thus these values are set depending on what kind of hardware a project is being run on (uniprocessor, SMP, GPU) and how long the WU took to finish on the benchmark machine.
    4. The k-factor, a coefficient in awarding bonus points, is currently set to a baseline value of 0.75, but may vary depending on the scientific value of a project.
    The Folding@home software on your computer calculates Total Points as follows:
     
    final_points = base_points * max(1, sqrt( k * deadline_length / elapsed_time))
     
    Note that the max(1, …) ensures that final_points are never lower than base_points, deadline_length is the deadline aka final deadline, and elapsed _time is the length of time from when the WU was assigned, to when it was uploaded, including transit time.  Deadline_length and Elapsed_time are measured in days to one decimal point.
     
    PPD is calculated as follows:
    PPD = 14.4 * base_points * max(1, sqrt( 14.4 * k * Expiration / TPF)) / TPF
     
    Note that TPF is in minutes, in decimal form, not time format.
    Note that GPU projects are now being benchmarked on the same machine, but using that machine’s CPU. By using the same hardware, we want to preserve our goal of “equal pay for equal work”. Our GPU methods have advanced to the point such that, with GPU FAHCore 17, we can run any computation that we can do on the CPU on the GPU. Therefore we’ve unified the benchmarking scheme so that both GPU and CPU projects use the same “yardstick”, which is our i5 benchmark CPU.

    What projects have the QRB?
    Right now, it is mainly applied to Work Units for multi-core processors. However, they will soon be applied to WUs for GPUs. As our GPU methods have matured, our plan is to treat all WUs identically. We can now do the same calculations (including implicit and explicit solvation) on both CPUs and GPUs. In years past, these two pieces of hardware were treated differently. This is no longer the case. Our plan is to introduce the Quick Return Bonus to GPUs as we roll out our new GPU core, FAHCore 17.
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2017/10/18 20:40:48

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    XrayMan
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 18:54:25 (permalink)
     
    Thread moved to Cryptocurrency
     
    (edit title Cool GTX)
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2017/10/22 14:42:31

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    #7
    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 19:12:29 (permalink)
    XrayMan
     
    Thread moved to Cryptocurrency


    Slightly curious... this is talking about folding ppd... why move folding questions to crypto? I mean, sure, it says cure coin, but isn’t cure coin a folding team? Or am I mistaken?
     
    (edit title Cool GTX)
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2017/10/22 14:43:05
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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 19:18:32 (permalink)
    Folding PPD has nothing to do with Coins. The Folding PPD going up or down has nothing to do with Coin.
    As Coin has nothing to do with the PPD going up or down.
    But when a Folding Miner receives only low PPD Folding WU they have to work harder and longer to receive their Coin.
    With low WU Profit goes down because cost to power their mining rigs.
    The Team Curecoin has a few members that are Teams all on their own, but you must be on the Curecoin to collect Coins.
    A lot of Curecoin Team Members are complaining about the few members taking coin from them with their GPU Server Farms.
    You would need a Folding Miner to covert the PPD to Coin, their Goal is the Coin or Profit over Cure.
    Team EVGA is all about the Cure and not about the Cryptocurrency that is provided by the Process that Team Curecoin pays out to their Team Members.
    This for the most part was why the Cryptocurrency area was created.
     
    Curecoin.net | Research and Cryptocurrency
    CureCoin Founder: My Cryptocurrency Can End All Disease in 100

    What’s the relationship between Folding@home and CureCoin?

    There was never an official endorsement from Dr Pande, since he did not know how the Curecoin project would work out, as it has never been attempted before. I did get an unofficial go ahead though, with word from his staff that he said “tell team Curecoin to just keep doing what they are doing.” He already has quite the reputation, and there was no need for him to put it on the line.
     
    CryptoBullions Folding Pool
    FoldingCoin – Mine Medicine – Not Hashes
    The Coin – FoldingCoin
     
    Most if not all Folders with this at the end of their UserID _ALL_1HsMGTTTWQQiSHyb7wFv4KALgACKofMqiU is a Folding Miner under Team Curecoin.
     
        Link
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2017/10/18 20:41:05

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    XrayMan
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 19:54:55 (permalink)
     
    CureCoin is a CryptoCurrency "based on" coupling SHA-256 Mining and "Folding@Home Protein Folding".
     
     
    (edit title Cool GTX)
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2017/10/22 14:43:59

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    Chris21010
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 20:08:51 (permalink)
    oh wow, nearly 8x the folding as EVGA?!?!?! i haven't looked to compare in quite some time, nearly baffling how quickly Curecoin continues to grow when thinking in terms of what EVGA has done for soo long.
     
     
    (edit title Cool GTX)
    post edited by Cool GTX - 2017/10/22 14:44:26


    #11
    Cool GTX
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 20:25:27 (permalink)
    Mid-month is never a high point for Team EVGA
     
    Seems most either hit their 4M goal early or late in the month
     
    Really just the fact that bitcoin has gone nuts this year +300% --- probably the reason for the  influx of more "coin" Folding
     
    Bottom line--> it is All Good for Folding @ Home 

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 20:27:41 (permalink)
    Chris21010
    oh wow, nearly 8x the folding as EVGA?!?!?! i haven't looked to compare in quite some time, nearly baffling how quickly Curecoin continues to grow when thinking in terms of what EVGA has done for soo long.


    Well for them it is all about the Coin and a Profit.
    Also this would never of happened in the 5xx or 6xx and even the 7xx Graphics Card Days.
    I have noted a few Forum Members even stop running under Curecoin because of their own Team Members are to big..
    Like vorksholk and CUREfor just look at some of the Signatures here on the Forum. 
     
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2017/10/18 20:41:17

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 20:31:25 (permalink)
    Cool GTX
    Bottom line--> it is All Good for Folding @ Home 


    So true and I am all for Curecoin Folding because in the end it is all about the Cure and not about the Coin.
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2017/10/18 20:39:19

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/18 20:39:52 (permalink)
    Titles need to be updated What is making PPD vary so much
    Not How many evga bucks per month with a 1080ti?

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    #15
    Cool GTX
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/22 14:45:21 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    Titles need to be updated What is making PPD vary so much
    Not How many evga bucks per month with a 1080ti?


    Done
     
    Happens when threads get moved

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    Cool GTX
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/22 14:47:17 (permalink)
    PPD awarded per WU is Not consistent when Folding ---> these are recent Points/WU that I've gotten
     
     
     
     

     
     
     
     
     

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    QuintLeo
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    Re: What is making PPD vary so much 2017/10/31 13:15:58 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
     
    A lot of Curecoin Team Members are complaining about the few members taking coin from them with their GPU Server Farms.
     
    Most if not all Folders with this at the end of their UserID _ALL_1HsMGTTTWQQiSHyb7wFv4KALgACKofMqiU is a Folding Miner under Team Curecoin.
     



     The ISSUE is that the current largest-production folder is a Curecoin DEVELOPER that is deliberately killing profitability through abuse of a gigantic rendering farm he has access to through his workplace, with his "justification" being that it should help coin price if he soaks some of the distribution and hangs onto it (it won't have a significant effect, there are way too many Curecoin already IN distribution for his efforts to matter to the price, he is only hurting the rest of the team and ticking OFF a lot of folders).
     
     If he WASN'T a developer, it wouldn't be considered a big deal - nobody every complained about Ed dominating the rankings for so long.
     
     His efforts have had a net NEGATIVE effect on folding over the last month or two, as a lot of us have left folding because of them (either because he ticked us off with his stupidity and abuse of his position as a developer, or because his efforts killed profitability to the point that the "chase the profit" types moved to other forms of cryptocoin mining that make more for them at this point).
     
     
     The folders with that long address at the end of it are FoldingCoin team members, many of whom do "merged folding" of both Curecoin AND Foldingcoin but a few only do Foldingcoin.
     

    Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding.
     I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again.
     
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