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EVGA 850W B3 misinformation?

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yatz10
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2017/09/29 08:38:04 (permalink)
Update by EVGA, here is the official reply:
“EVGA stands behind its full line of products, and the 5-Year Warranty on each B3 power supply demonstrates the confidence EVGA has in the quality and safety of each product shipped. If anyone has questions or concerns, please contact EVGA Customer Service and we are more than happy to assist. In the rare instance that a replacement unit is necessary, EVGA will support with a free Advanced RMA on all EVGA SuperNOVA B3 Power Supplies.
 
In addition, the EVGA SuperNOVA B3 review samples, as well as the production, were all built at the exact same qualified facility.”
 
Thanks,
EVGA

 
[H]ardOCP has an article claiming shenanigans by EVGA, via Overclock.net forums: (https://www.hardocp.com/news/2017/09/29/evga_caught_sampling_psus_to_reviewers_same_as_retail). 
"EVGA is sampling PSU review samples from one manufacturer, but when you go to the store and purchase the same "unit," it is made by a totally different company."
I'm a bit confused since both TomsHardware (retail) and JonnyGuru (sampled by EVGA) state in their review that SuperFlower is the manufacturer. But OklahomaWolf @ JonnyGuru later posts in his forum that:
"Aris told me all of his units were store bought. That could explain the difference in solder quality. Press kits are actually made by Super Flower while retail units are made by RSY."
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14808
I almost bought one of these prior to researching it. Any clarity about retail vs. sample manufacturer would be appreciated!
 
post edited by EVGA_JacobF - 2017/09/29 23:54:00

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/29 08:44:50 (permalink)
    Well as far as JonnyGuru goes I have lost my faith in anything he now posts anyway as being a child in mind.
    But being a Bronze PSU it would never enter my review, the 450 B3 or the 850 B3.
    Also one reason I do not follow HardOCP Forums. 
    You see this on a lot of PSU Review "EVGA has a bit of a rocky road with HardOCP when it comes to PSU reviews."

    Friday September 29, 2017

    EVGA Caught Sampling PSUs to Reviewers Not the Same as Retail

    In the dirty underworld of PSU fanboys it seems as though it is being pointed out that EVGA is sampling PSU review samples from one manufacturer, but when you go to the store and purchase the same "unit," it is made by a totally different company. At least that is what is being put forward in the Overclock.net forums.
     
    EVGA's track record with HardOCP PSU reviews is not good overall. EVGA has refused to sample us PSUs for years for reviews, so most of the units we have done over the years have been purchased in retail by us. When we get luls in our schedule, we buy ones that are marketed for sale at that time.
     
    HardOCP has asked for PSU samples for years to come from retail stock, the same as you would purchase. To date, Seasonic is the only company to step up and do this. Also, interestingly enough, we have to go back 5 years to find the ONLY Seasonic PSU that has not been an award winner with us (but it still passed ATX spec), and that was an obscure form factor low power PSU, not anything mainstream. That is a hell of a track record.
     
    It looks like at the time at least one company is stepping up to meet the challenge, other companies are actually stepping down. That is a shame
     
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2017/09/29 08:49:54

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    yatz10
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/29 08:49:06 (permalink)
    yeah, tbh i only have gold and above units in my current machines, but it's always appealing to research if the next can be built cheaper (and the planning is most of the fun anyways:)

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/29 08:54:38 (permalink)
    I guess if you want cheep then that is what you are going to get.
    I see Cheep Computers as using the Cheapest of all parts and when someone puts in a 1070 or higher Graphics Card in this Cheep Computer then complains that the GPU is not working as it should you tend to wonder.

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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/29 11:00:07 (permalink)
    Wonder what evga has to say about this.
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    maxfly
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/29 14:57:03 (permalink)
    not cool at all. that 450 b3 unit is one of the most popular entry level psus. i want to see much wider retail b3 series testing done. like all of them!
     im shocked. no pun intended. this had better not be true or evga is going to take one right upside the nugget. bad press can and usually does squeeze the profits right out of a line up like the b3.
     EDIT- cheap isnt always low quality. look at the seasonic s12 and m12 4-620w series. excellent quality and cheap as they come. ive been using them for years in budget and mid range rigs. not to mention ive suggested them more times than i can remember on forums. makes me shudder to think that i have come really close to using the 450 b3 in a couple of tight budget builds rather than the usual s12 520(didnt want to fudge around with the rebate). ive also posted them up on forums for their supposed value.
     i am also looking forward to hearing what evga has to say
     
    post edited by maxfly - 2017/09/29 15:07:32

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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/29 15:43:01 (permalink)
    maxfly
    not cool at all. that 450 b3 unit is one of the most popular entry level psus. i want to see much wider retail b3 series testing done. like all of them!
     im shocked. no pun intended. this had better not be true or evga is going to take one right upside the nugget. bad press can and usually does squeeze the profits right out of a line up like the b3.
     EDIT- cheap isnt always low quality. look at the seasonic s12 and m12 4-620w series. excellent quality and cheap as they come. ive been using them for years in budget and mid range rigs. not to mention ive suggested them more times than i can remember on forums. makes me shudder to think that i have come really close to using the 450 b3 in a couple of tight budget builds rather than the usual s12 520(didnt want to fudge around with the rebate). ive also posted them up on forums for their supposed value.
     i am also looking forward to hearing what evga has to say
     

    I could say that I am shocked that you think what is being said on their Forum to be 100% Correct.
    "450 b3 unit is one of the most popular entry level psus" From where did you get this Info?
    At least that is what is being put forward in the Overclock.net forums.
     
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-450-b3-psu,5160-11.html Warranty: 3 Years
    Final Analysis
    EVGA hits the mainstream category hard with its new B3 line. The 450 B3 demonstrates excellent performance for the standards of this price range, a fairly long hold-up time, and quiet operation. Modular cabling, a user-selectable semi-passive mode, and a five-year warranty are icing on the cake. Most important is EVGA's impressive performance-per-dollar ratio. The company used to sell hardware at cost to batter its competition, and it appears to be using a similar tactic with the B3 family. After all, it's hard to offer all of the 450 B3's functionality for just $50.
     
    Verdict
    Our sample died during OPP testing with 580W load, with the main fuse staying intact! This is a serious problem and till we get to the bottom of this we cannot recommend the 450 B3, although it has great performance for the standards of this category.
     
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-850-b3-psu,5186-11.html Warranty: 5 Years
    Final Analysis
    The 850 B3 achieves good overall performance, despite the 3.3V rail's bad transient response (hopefully EVGA fixes that as soon as possible, since the rail failed all of our tests). But regardless of a strong showing in most of our benchmarks, this PSU appears to have a serious flaw: our retail sample finished its OPP test and wouldn't fire back up. Apparently, something broke on the secondary side. Although we're glad the 850 B3 didn't blow up like the 450W model, this is our second (so far) B3-series power supply to die on the bench. And given that the 850 B3 is the family's flagship, we are worried about the platform's reliability.
     
    Verdict
    Another B3 unit that died during our tests and this makes us very skeptical about the whole B3 line. This time we didn't have a spectacular failure but still a 100 bucks PSU should not break during the protection features evaluation.
     
    http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showpost.php?p=142553&postcount=10
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2017/09/29 16:01:27

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    EVGA_JacobF
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/29 21:36:00 (permalink)
    Please see below:
     
    “EVGA stands behind its full line of products, and the 5-Year Warranty on each B3 power supply demonstrates the confidence EVGA has in the quality and safety of each product shipped. If anyone has questions or concerns, please contact EVGA Customer Service and we are more than happy to assist. In the rare instance that a replacement unit is necessary, EVGA will support with a free Advanced RMA on all EVGA SuperNOVA B3 Power Supplies.
     
    In addition, the EVGA SuperNOVA B3 review samples, as well as the production, were all built at the exact same qualified facility.”
     
    Thanks,
    EVGA



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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/30 01:05:40 (permalink)
    You know what's a joke, the 80 Plus voluntary certification program. They only test samples sent to them by the mfg. They don't test retail sourced power supplies. That leaves the door open for a bait and switch.  (I'm not saying EVGA does that, if they do, i haven't seen any proof of it)
     
    I always tell people to avoid buying any bronze power supply. They cost you more to operate in the long run.


     
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    maxfly
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/30 01:26:57 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    maxfly
    not cool at all. that 450 b3 unit is one of the most popular entry level psus. i want to see much wider retail b3 series testing done. like all of them!
     im shocked. no pun intended. this had better not be true or evga is going to take one right upside the nugget. bad press can and usually does squeeze the profits right out of a line up like the b3.
     EDIT- cheap isnt always low quality. look at the seasonic s12 and m12 4-620w series. excellent quality and cheap as they come. ive been using them for years in budget and mid range rigs. not to mention ive suggested them more times than i can remember on forums. makes me shudder to think that i have come really close to using the 450 b3 in a couple of tight budget builds rather than the usual s12 520(didnt want to fudge around with the rebate). ive also posted them up on forums for their supposed value.
     i am also looking forward to hearing what evga has to say
     

    I could say that I am shocked that you think what is being said on their Forum to be 100% Correct.
    "450 b3 unit is one of the most popular entry level psus" From where did you get this Info?
    At least that is what is being put forward in the Overclock.net forums.
     
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-450-b3-psu,5160-11.html Warranty: 3 Years
    Final Analysis
    EVGA hits the mainstream category hard with its new B3 line. The 450 B3 demonstrates excellent performance for the standards of this price range, a fairly long hold-up time, and quiet operation. Modular cabling, a user-selectable semi-passive mode, and a five-year warranty are icing on the cake. Most important is EVGA's impressive performance-per-dollar ratio. The company used to sell hardware at cost to batter its competition, and it appears to be using a similar tactic with the B3 family. After all, it's hard to offer all of the 450 B3's functionality for just $50.
     
    Verdict
    Our sample died during OPP testing with 580W load, with the main fuse staying intact! This is a serious problem and till we get to the bottom of this we cannot recommend the 450 B3, although it has great performance for the standards of this category.
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-850-b3-psu,5186-11.html Warranty: 5 Years
    Final Analysis
    The 850 B3 achieves good overall performance, despite the 3.3V rail's bad transient response (hopefully EVGA fixes that as soon as possible, since the rail failed all of our tests). But regardless of a strong showing in most of our benchmarks, this PSU appears to have a serious flaw: our retail sample finished its OPP test and wouldn't fire back up. Apparently, something broke on the secondary side. Although we're glad the 850 B3 didn't blow up like the 450W model, this is our second (so far) B3-series power supply to die on the bench. And given that the 850 B3 is the family's flagship, we are worried about the platform's reliability.
     
    Verdict
    Another B3 unit that died during our tests and this makes us very skeptical about the whole B3 line. This time we didn't have a spectacular failure but still a 100 bucks PSU should not break during the protection features evaluation.
     
    http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showpost.php?p=142553&postcount=10




     strange, i dont remember saying anything about being 100%? i do recall wanting to see more b3 testing done? which would obviously either prove or disprove these reviews. it seems that you sir are jumping to conclusions.
     
    its common knowledge that the 450 b3 offers excellent value. especially considering its a fully modular unit and comes with a 5 yr warranty. there are only two suppliers that i know of that offer both in that price range. due to the aforementioned they are highly recommended units. which generally results in their being used at a much higher rate than units that arent.
     
     among system builders, gamers and pretty much anyone that knows even a little about pc components evga has a flawless reputation. particularly regarding their customer support. if someone spends even a little time researching power supplies or gpus you will very quickly see that they are ALWAYS among the top 3 most recommended suppliers. do you now understand my surprise?
     
    EDIT- good to see evga once again steps up to the plate with an advanced rma.
    post edited by maxfly - 2017/09/30 01:29:45

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    yatz10
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/30 05:04:42 (permalink)
    Jacob -- thanks for the reply, I (and I'm sure others) appreciate! 

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    quadlatte
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/30 12:30:21 (permalink)
    i have shyed away from kyle and hardocp for a long time, seen the guy do some hack stuff then complain about when he is the one that caused it. not sure what his beef with evga is, it started when he was a big shill for BFG, think his wittle feeling got hurt that evga destroyed them in product

                                   
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/30 13:36:49 (permalink)
    Not sure what the issue [H]ardOCP has exactly, I've read the [H]ardOCP article claiming shenanigans by EVGA, & Overclock.net forums
     
    - [H]ardOCP needs to take a Basic Statistics Class ---> two Data Point, is Not Statistically Significant
     
    - Most PSU, MFG do not seem to announce process changes, tweaks, revisions  (Corsair comes to mind when X99 MB were having Voltage issues)
     
    - MFG do change vendors all the time for many reasons
     
    - OMG price point products are Not as Good as the Top tier, more expensive units
     
     
    Seems like someone has an axe to grind ? @  [H]ardOCP

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    yatz10
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/30 17:00:56 (permalink)
    if you read the forums over there on this (which i don't recommend, lot of pitchforks etc.), [H] isn't too happy with EVGA since they don't get sampled for reviews anymore.
    i have my ups and downs with that site. kyle is a bit abrasive for my taste, but I like the other contributors.
    post edited by yatz10 - 2017/09/30 18:21:18

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    Sajin
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/30 17:47:01 (permalink)
    EVGA_JacobF
    Please see below:
     
    “EVGA stands behind its full line of products, and the 5-Year Warranty on each B3 power supply demonstrates the confidence EVGA has in the quality and safety of each product shipped. If anyone has questions or concerns, please contact EVGA Customer Service and we are more than happy to assist. In the rare instance that a replacement unit is necessary, EVGA will support with a free Advanced RMA on all EVGA SuperNOVA B3 Power Supplies.
     
    In addition, the EVGA SuperNOVA B3 review samples, as well as the production, were all built at the exact same qualified facility.”
     
    Thanks,
    EVGA




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    MSim
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/09/30 22:38:47 (permalink)
    yatz10
    if you read the forums over there on this (which i don't recommend, lot of pitchforks etc.), [H] isn't too happy with EVGA since they don't get sampled for reviews anymore.
    i have my ups and downs with that site. kyle is a bit abrasive for my taste, but I like the other contributors.




    A company shouldn't be afraid of valid criticism from a review site. I would rather see EVGA send a review sample to [H]OCP, over wasting that samples on someone like 3dgameman, who only does basic overviews. 
     
     


     
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    fearpoint
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/10/01 10:13:55 (permalink)
    Hardocp is known to be shills and blowhards. Take that for what it is.
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    MSim
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/10/01 12:55:07 (permalink)
    fearpoint
    Hardocp is known to be shills and blowhards. Take that for what it is.




    When has [H]OCP been a shill? 
     
    They have spoken out about issues like many other review sites have over the years.
     


     
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    XrayMan
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/10/01 15:47:48 (permalink)
    EVGA_JacobF
    Please see below:
     
    “EVGA stands behind its full line of products, and the 5-Year Warranty on each B3 power supply demonstrates the confidence EVGA has in the quality and safety of each product shipped. If anyone has questions or concerns, please contact EVGA Customer Service and we are more than happy to assist. In the rare instance that a replacement unit is necessary, EVGA will support with a free Advanced RMA on all EVGA SuperNOVA B3 Power Supplies.
     
    In addition, the EVGA SuperNOVA B3 review samples, as well as the production, were all built at the exact same qualified facility.”
     
    Thanks,
    EVGA





       

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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/10/01 21:55:00 (permalink)
    I've had a B700 unit come DOA from Evga, big deal.  I've got 2 B850 units going in dedicated space heaters right now.  I mean what do you expect when you over power these things?  Something is going to fail, and in reality, it will probably fail spectacularly.  I've seen power supplies shoot flames out the back when they fail for heaven's sake.  Ones that weren't even being over powered..thank you emachines.  The fact of the matter is [H] is just looking for page views, and controversy gets page views.  The real story here should be the fact that the cables on the power supply didn't melt, nor did the ends short out, when the unit was subjected to over load.  The internals did their job and protected the equipment.  In the end, that is what a power supply's protection circuits SHOULD do!

     

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    quadlatte
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/10/02 22:46:40 (permalink)
    MSim
    fearpoint
    Hardocp is known to be shills and blowhards. Take that for what it is.




    When has [H]OCP been a shill? 
     
    They have spoken out about issues like many other review sites have over the years.
     


    he has for a long time, his love affair with BFG was down right creepy. i remember reading his column in CPU magazine years ago and thinking this guy is a total jerk. i check them out every now and then but it's usually a eyeroll fest when i do.

                                   
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    MSim
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/10/03 05:17:02 (permalink)
    quadlatte
    MSim
    fearpoint
    Hardocp is known to be shills and blowhards. Take that for what it is.




    When has [H]OCP been a shill? 
     
    They have spoken out about issues like many other review sites have over the years.
     


    he has for a long time, his love affair with BFG was down right creepy. i remember reading his column in CPU magazine years ago and thinking this guy is a total jerk. i check them out every now and then but it's usually a eyeroll fest when i do.




    If you put it like that, we could call reviewers like JayzTwoCents shills for Nvidia/EVGA. You see his rant about how he was done with AMD, if he wanted to review one in the future, he would buy it himself (i bet he folds on that one). OC3DTV a shill for ASUS and Corsair.
     
    I wish review sites would be more open, let readers/viewers know what the company requires of them, do they send a talking points sheet they want covered in the article/video. Do they want to approve the article or video before it's published.
     
     
     
     


     
    #22
    Cool GTX
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/10/03 09:25:22 (permalink)
    I like the Consumers Report model of reviews -- unbiased -- No sponsorship & they buy the product at retail

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    #23
    kougar
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/10/04 03:11:25 (permalink)
    THG claims it's made by RSY purely because of the solder quality. Yet comparing JonnyGuru's photo to THG's photo of the back of the 850w PCB, the soldering quality appears completely identical between units. Wish sites would actually offer substantive proof before spreading FUD about companies, no wonder EVGA doesn't want to sample them. I sure wouldn't.
     
    Cool GTX
    I like the Consumers Report model of reviews -- unbiased -- No sponsorship & they buy the product at retail




    Agreed, which is why I still have a subscription to that site. I don't use CR much but in an ideal world that is the best it is going to get for unbiased reviews, even the board of directors are voted in by all subscribing members every year. 


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    #24
    MSim
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    Re: EVGA 850W B3 misinformation? 2017/10/06 04:08:33 (permalink)
    Did anyone read Tomshardware review on EVGA 450 B3?
     
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-450-b3-psu,5160-11.html
     

    In the end, it may not matter because the 450 B3 has other, more serious problems. It looks like Super Flower made a huge mistake in its design, which poses a major safety risk. We noticed that the over-power protection triggering point is set way too high. Even under normal operating temperatures, one of the primary FETs in our store-bought sample, along with some other components, blew up. Either SF should set its OPP point much lower or use components able to handle higher amperage. We were also disturbed by the fact that, after the primary side shorted out, the PSU's fuse didn't blow. Every time we applied power, we saw sparks. Obviously, that's a fire hazard.
     
    Of course, we notified EVGA of our findings, even though the company wasn't able to send a review sample before or after our mishap with the store-bought solution, stating it didn't have any to send. This looks suspicious to us, since plenty of online stores have them in stock. Seasonic recently started providing review samples through online stores to show it has nothing to hide. And after our trouble with EVGA, this approach is starting to look a lot better for transparency.
     
    If the 450 B3 hadn't blown in a spectacular way, it would be one of the best PSUs in this category. But we are seriously troubled by its issue and EVGA's lack of a response when we probed for possible causes. Although the 450 B3 is solid and sells for a great price, we recommend being extra careful with this model until we can better explain why ours died on the bench. Maybe some day EVGA will follow Seasonic and offer reviewers samples through a retail channel to ensure that plain users have the same access to good hardware as the tech press. We'd like to confirm the whole batch of 450 B3s isn't bad, after all.
     

     
    Having better transparency is always a good thing for consumers. I think it's time for a new industry standard. Do all review samples through a retail channel, just like Seasonic does. This is long over due imo.
     
    I wonder how that works with Seasonic, do they reimburse the reviewer or do they give them a prepaid visa card?
     


     
    #25
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