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How much wattage do I actually need for my set up?

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andreang97
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2017/09/13 23:30:00 (permalink)
Hey guys, So the question is do I need an 850w powersupply or is a 750w sufficient for my rig?
 
Setup:
i5-7600k - 4.5GHz at 1.17v
EVGA GTX 1070 FTW - +70/+300/50% voltage slider
Trident Z RGB 3000MHZ 16GB 
Cryorig R1 Universal cooler
Asus Strix Z270F motherboard
 
I've checked on some PSU calculator websites and it states 650-750W would be sufficient but a question on that would be the voltage slider on the websites only allow up to 50% does that mean 100% in Precision XOC?
Suggestions would be appreciated thank you! :D
 
Pictures attached are from the PSU calculator website at 750w and 850w respectively.

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#1

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    XrayMan
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/13 23:36:34 (permalink)
     
    I would go with the 850 just to be safe.

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    #2
    andreang97
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/14 00:16:28 (permalink)
    XrayMan
     
    I would go with the 850 just to be safe.


    Will it not be inefficient? I've read on somewhere where it was stated having too much wattage and not utilizing them will be inefficient.
    #3
    XrayMan
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/14 21:55:18 (permalink)
     
    Well, it's not your going with a 1600. I still think it will be good for you. Others can weigh in on this as well. Need more opinions than just mine.   ;)

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/15 08:21:30 (permalink)
    XrayMan
     
    I would go with the 850 just to be safe.


    +1

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    #5
    Sajin
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/15 12:20:50 (permalink)
    750w is plenty for your rig.


    See my current build here: https://forums.evga.com/My-bench-rig-unlimited-power-m3596024.aspx
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    Mkkari
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/15 23:31:35 (permalink)
    One notification from me, get good trusted PSU. You'll be more than safe with those. Such as Evgas P2/T2. Jonnyguru's reviews is good to know at this point 

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    #7
    lehpron
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/16 12:16:19 (permalink)
    Why not get an actual power meter for $20 (P3 P4400 Kill-A-Watt) and see what the power draw from the wall outlet is?  Then you can subtract the PSU efficiency to see what the system is pulling from the PSU.  From there you can get a new PSU to better fit, if you want.

    I.e. An 80% Eff PSU will pull 100W from the wall while the system pulls 80W from the PSU (meaning 20W worth is wasted as heat); the efficiency rating is due to not fully converting AC to DC which depends on the load and the temperature.  Once you find your wattage number full load, then look to efficiency curves charts for both your PSU and maybe another you're looking at.  Yeah, typically power supplies are most efficient in the middle of their rated power, so if you find your total draw is 375W, maybe you're okay with your 750W unit.

    Your i5-7600K at 4.5 and GTX1070FTW overclocked, I'd say you're less than 400W, system draw.  But you have to get a power meter to see.  They may not be super accurate, but you're not trying to run a 24/7 server off a solar panel and batteries.

    For instance, say I go to Newegg, pick a 750W category, find a high user rating that happened to get Johnnyguru reviews and pick a high efficiency, like 80Plus Platinum.  This leaves me with Corsair HX750i, then I'll go to Corsair's website and find the PSU load eff chart:


    So with HX750i, you'll want to have your full load around 43% full, or about 320W from the system.  But honestly, the difference between 87-93% eff isn't pulling much from the wall.  At a system draw of 320W, maybe it's a difference of 25W from the wall.

    Where I live, each 1 Watt consumed at an average of 8hr/day costs me $1 over the course of a year.  Our bill in a 4-person house is $300/mo in electricity in the summer, mainly due to running the AC in an old house, and I'm the only one with a high-end PC.  I'm currently running an all-stock GTX1080 Ti with a Core i5-5675C and 16GB of DDR3 and a pair of Crucial MX300's on an EVGA 500W Bronze.  No real issues.

    Keep in mind though, power supply capacitors age with time, meaning the efficiency drops over the years.  That doesn't necessarily mean your system power draw will change, but the power draw from the wall outlet will slowly go up.  Even if we're talking about 5% a year, significance depends on you, if it matters enough.  

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    Cruzix
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/17 01:52:54 (permalink)
    lehpron
     
    Keep in mind though, power supply capacitors age with time, meaning the efficiency drops over the years.  That doesn't necessarily mean your system power draw will change, but the power draw from the wall outlet will slowly go up.  Even if we're talking about 5% a year, significance depends on you, if it matters enough.  


    Is this the case for all types of PSU's? (Even T2 and P2)

    I was thinking of investing in the 850 T2 because I've heard PSU's will last very long thus could use it for future builds but if the efficiency lowers anyways, then maybe I should save the 100€ difference from the 850 T2 and go for a 850 G3 instead.
    Then I can always after about 5 years get a new 850 G3 (and sell the old one) just to "refresh" its efficiency so less bills for me :p, the 850 G3 is 150€ and the 850 T2 is 250€ so it wouldn't be a loss of money to buy 2x 850 G3 since I still can sell the old one.

    Edit: 
    Also the reason I was willing to pay an additional 100€ for the 850 T2 rather than 850 G3 was because I thought I could easily save those 100€ in terms of electricity bills over the many many years the PSU would last, especially since I use my PC for at least 5 hours a day and the electricity bills are quite high in Denmark.
    post edited by Cruzix - 2017/09/17 02:02:30
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    Mkkari
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/17 03:51:27 (permalink)
    Cruzix
    lehpron
     
    Keep in mind though, power supply capacitors age with time, meaning the efficiency drops over the years.  That doesn't necessarily mean your system power draw will change, but the power draw from the wall outlet will slowly go up.  Even if we're talking about 5% a year, significance depends on you, if it matters enough.  


    Is this the case for all types of PSU's? (Even T2 and P2)

    I was thinking of investing in the 850 T2 because I've heard PSU's will last very long thus could use it for future builds but if the efficiency lowers anyways, then maybe I should save the 100€ difference from the 850 T2 and go for a 850 G3 instead.
    Then I can always after about 5 years get a new 850 G3 (and sell the old one) just to "refresh" its efficiency so less bills for me :p, the 850 G3 is 150€ and the 850 T2 is 250€ so it wouldn't be a loss of money to buy 2x 850 G3 since I still can sell the old one.

    Edit: 
    Also the reason I was willing to pay an additional 100€ for the 850 T2 rather than 850 G3 was because I thought I could easily save those 100€ in terms of electricity bills over the many many years the PSU would last, especially since I use my PC for at least 5 hours a day and the electricity bills are quite high in Denmark.

    Im little bit sceptic about capacitors losing its effects over the years. I cannot be sure though, i will look into it. Tuesday i can ask about it from someone that knows more than me.
    post edited by Mkkari - 2017/09/17 03:53:54

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    #10
    Cruzix
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/17 07:01:58 (permalink)
    Mkkari
    Im little bit sceptic about capacitors losing its effects over the years. I cannot be sure though, i will look into it. Tuesday i can ask about it from someone that knows more than me.

    That'd be nice! thank you :)
    #11
    jonnyguru
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/17 09:03:01 (permalink)
    Oh dear... There's a lot of misinformation here.  Let me try to set this straight....
     
    Back when most ATX PSUs used a "double forward topology", it was true that efficiency was more of a bell curve shape and you would get the best efficiency at 50%.  The efficiency was much worse below 20% as well and not just the 2% you would see for the PSU to pass a particular 80 PLUS level.
     
    Now, most better PSUs (like the G2, P2, etc.) use what's called an "LLC topology".  This topology has a switching frequency that changes with load.  This gives a pretty flat efficiency that is only +/- 2 to 3% across an entire spectrum of loads.
     
    And now that we have more strict low load efficiencies in the EU continent (soon to be enforced in the U.S. as well), no to low load efficiency has improved significantly as well.
     
    Now.. There are parts that work better at lower loads, but it's not capacitors.  Parts like MOSFETs don't run as hot when they don't work as hard, so if the PSU has any kind of Zero RPM mode fan, you may find a larger PSU may not be as loud because the parts don't require as much cooling.  But capacitors aren't going to be less efficient as they age.  The primary caps have to hold a particular charge in order for the primary switchers to work.  And if the secondary capacitors start to fail without failing completely (bang) you'll get higher ripple that will slowly kill your PC components.  But again... if we're talking about higher quality PSUs, that won't be an issue unless you're trying to run your PC in 40°C up ambient temperatures, 24/7 full load, and/or your PSU is 10+ years old.
    #12
    Cruzix
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/17 09:29:30 (permalink)
    jonnyguru
    Oh dear... There's a lot of misinformation here.  Let me try to set this straight....
     
    Back when most ATX PSUs used a "double forward topology", it was true that efficiency was more of a bell curve shape and you would get the best efficiency at 50%.  The efficiency was much worse below 20% as well and not just the 2% you would see for the PSU to pass a particular 80 PLUS level.
     
    Now, most better PSUs (like the G2, P2, etc.) use what's called an "LLC topology".  This topology has a switching frequency that changes with load.  This gives a pretty flat efficiency that is only +/- 2 to 3% across an entire spectrum of loads.
     
    And now that we have more strict low load efficiencies in the EU continent (soon to be enforced in the U.S. as well), no to low load efficiency has improved significantly as well.
     
    Now.. There are parts that work better at lower loads, but it's not capacitors.  Parts like MOSFETs don't run as hot when they don't work as hard, so if the PSU has any kind of Zero RPM mode fan, you may find a larger PSU may not be as loud because the parts don't require as much cooling.  But capacitors aren't going to be less efficient as they age.  The primary caps have to hold a particular charge in order for the primary switchers to work.  And if the secondary capacitors start to fail without failing completely (bang) you'll get higher ripple that will slowly kill your PC components.  But again... if we're talking about higher quality PSUs, that won't be an issue unless you're trying to run your PC in 40°C up ambient temperatures, 24/7 full load, and/or your PSU is 10+ years old.


    The master has been summoned! (totally wasn't me)

    Thanks for the clarification, looks like my initial plan is still standing :)
    #13
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/17 09:51:40 (permalink)
    I like this "But capacitors aren't going to be less efficient as they age." If true.
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2017/09/17 10:12:25

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    jonnyguru
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/17 10:16:54 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    I like this "But capacitors aren't going to be less efficient as they age." If true.


    Make sure not to quote that out of context. "Capacitor aging" is a thing, but your PSU running less efficiently as a result of it is going to be the least of your worries.
    #15
    Mkkari
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/19 05:13:13 (permalink)
    I actually today asked about that and he said straight away as they age, they are going to be less efficient. Capacitor drying. But like jonny said, least of your worries. Psu's use pretty high quality caps after all.
    We might be talking few Watts over the years overall?
     
    Edit: Somewhy i'm little bit intriqued to start that test how much it would affect. But damn, it isnt something that should be left alone at home.
    post edited by Mkkari - 2017/09/19 05:49:47

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    #16
    panzlock
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/20 13:27:53 (permalink)
    XrayMan
     
    I would go with the 850 just to be safe.



    Agreed.
     
    850Watts would be good for his setup. Highest efficiency falls between 40%-60% load. And make it an EVGA SuperNOVA P2.
    #17
    XrayMan
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/20 20:16:56 (permalink)
    panzlock
    XrayMan
     
    I would go with the 850 just to be safe.



    Agreed.
     
    850Watts would be good for his setup. Highest efficiency falls between 40%-60% load. And make it an EVGA SuperNOVA P2.




       

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    andreang97
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/23 02:50:56 (permalink)
    Wow, Thanks for much for the input guys. 
     
    I'm currently using an EVGA 850 G3 (And i'm loving it) but I recently won in a giveaway a Seasonic Focus Plus 750 Gold PSU and that is the reason for this post.
    I have a choice on using the 750w from Seasonic or the 850w from EVGA. Now guys, between the 2 beast which is most suitable for my rig?
     
    Updated rig:
    i5-7600k - 4.4GHz at 1.1v
    Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming +105/+300 (Core/Memory)
    Trident Z RGB 3000MHZ 16GB 
    Cryorig R1 Universal cooler
    Asus Strix Z270F motherboard
    Total of 5 140mm fans, 3 Case fans and 2 from the R1 Universal
    Deepcool RGB 350
    Asus PCE-AC88 dual band AC3100 PCIE wireless adapter
     
    Thanks in advance and definitely appreciate all your inputs!
     
     
    #19
    Cruzix
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/23 03:27:01 (permalink)
    I'd use the 850 G3 and sell/giveaway the one from Seasonic.
    #20
    Cruzix
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/23 03:30:41 (permalink)
    Here is Jonnyguru's review of the two PSU's. (He didn't have review of the 850w G3, so i went with the 750w G3)
     
    EVGA G3 750w: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=500
    Seasonic Focus Plus 750W Gold: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=524
     
    Solid PSU's both of them, but the EVGA one is slightly better and then it's 850w thus higher efficiency for your build cuz it's gonna be closer to 50% load.
     
    #21
    andreang97
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/23 04:20:59 (permalink)
    Cruzix
    Here is Jonnyguru's review of the two PSU's. (He didn't have review of the 850w G3, so i went with the 750w G3)
     
    EVGA G3 750w: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=500
    Seasonic Focus Plus 750W Gold: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=524
     
    Solid PSU's both of them, but the EVGA one is slightly better and then it's 850w thus higher efficiency for your build cuz it's gonna be closer to 50% load.
     


    So I should keep and use the 850 G3?
    #22
    Cruzix
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/23 04:47:35 (permalink)
    Yes...
    #23
    andreang97
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/23 05:22:16 (permalink)
    Thanks dude!
     
    #24
    XrayMan
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/23 14:36:15 (permalink)
     
    Yep.

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    #25
    Bigslimvdub
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/27 21:44:45 (permalink)
    FYI I had an OC6700k on Corsair water cooler with oc founders 1070 and oc ddr4 2400 ram and I ran constant 240w at the wall mining with that setup. I had a 650NEx psu and had zero issues running it 24/7. During gaming I was unable to read but it sometimes would spike to 300w and change.
    #26
    MSim
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/28 01:10:30 (permalink)
    Mkkari
    Im little bit sceptic about capacitors losing its effects over the years. I cannot be sure though, i will look into it. Tuesday i can ask about it from someone that knows more than me.



    I would love to see power supply review sites test a power supply that has been used for 6-12hrs everyday for the past 5-8 years. See how it's efficiency has held up.
     


     
    #27
    andreang97
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/28 03:01:20 (permalink)
    Bigslimvdub
    FYI I had an OC6700k on Corsair water cooler with oc founders 1070 and oc ddr4 2400 ram and I ran constant 240w at the wall mining with that setup. I had a 650NEx psu and had zero issues running it 24/7. During gaming I was unable to read but it sometimes would spike to 300w and change.

     
    This is interesting, How do you know how much is your system actually using? I’m current using the Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750w and it’s running warm even with fan mode on.
    post edited by andreang97 - 2017/09/28 03:04:22
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: How much wattage do I actually need for my set up? 2017/09/28 04:34:20 (permalink)
    andreang97
     
    This is interesting, How do you know how much is your system actually using? I’m current using the Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750w and it’s running warm even with fan mode on.




    Use a "Kill A Watt" or other type direct measure device to monitor the actual power draw from the wall --> (was mentioned in post #8, by lehpron)

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