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AnsweredX299 is a screw up by all brands, because of Intel, will EVGA fix it? [VROC, raid, PCi-e]

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uplink_svk
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2017/07/25 16:16:42 (permalink)
Hey there guys,


I'm a Gigabyte X299 Gaming 9 ["happy"] owner. I tell You, Intel messed up big time on X299. It's a total disaster. But let bygones be bygones.


My question(s) are. EVGA will be the first brand to incorporate two U.2 ports [which I need for my Intel 750 U.2 babies] and...the quesiton is. Will they be connected directly to CPU? Or will they be bridged to PCH like it's on Asus X299 Prime and my mobo and all MSi motherboards?


This is a massive hiccup. For those who don't check the trends. There's this thing called VROC [virtual raid on cpu]. Which ain't fully implemented in X299 yet, works with all the server chipsets + Xeon processors. But, when it will, it will require Your NVMe SSD drive to be connected directly to the CPU [via PCi-e, or - if viable, by m.2/u.2 ports]. Problems, problems, problems are, that You need to have Intel NVMe drive + if You want to have raid1, You need a 100$ dongle and if You want raid5/10, You need 200-300$ dongle. Okay, Intel went full retard this time, but nevermind. Till we won't have Threadripper here and functional, all that's left are just eyes for cry.


Anyway. Any clues, how will the architecture work on X299 FTW K? Will EVGA go via the "standard" chipset path and hook up USB, M.2 and U.2 on PCH, which is connected via slow DMi 3.0 [4 x 8GT/s which equals ~3 GB/s both ways [theoretically 3.98 GB/s, but DMi 3.0 just doesn't happen to live up to it's expectations].


Thank You for any insight


Kind regards


uplink
post edited by Scarlet-Tech - 2017/07/25 16:22:30

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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: X299 is a screw up by all brands, because of Intel, will EVGA fix it? [VROC, raid, PCi 2017/07/25 16:21:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby uplink_svk 2017/07/25 17:07:04
First and foremost, foul language isnt allowed. Editing your post.
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uplink_svk
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Re: X299 is a screw up by all brands, because of Intel, will EVGA fix it? [VROC, raid, PCi 2017/07/25 16:30:25 (permalink)
Erm, okay I guess? :)

mobo: EVGA Z690 DARK K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR | bios: 1.14 | cpu: Intel® Core™ i9-12900T Processor | vga:  Nvidia GeForce RTX™ 3090 Ti Founders Edition | ram:  DOMINATOR® PLATINUM RGB 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 DRAM 6600MHz C32 Memory Kit — Black [SKU CMT32GX5M2X6600C32] | nvme ssd: Samsung 980 PRO NVMe™ M.2 SSD 1 TB & Samsung 980 PRO NVMe™ M.2 SSD 2 TB  | psu:  Asus ROG THOR 1000P2 GAMING cooler: Asus ROG RYUJIN II 360  | monitor #1: 31.5'' 4K OLED Display with Pixel Dimming and 1M : 1 Contrast Ratio [32EP950-B] | monitor #2: LG Ergo 27UN880 | mouse: Logitech Master 3S | keyboard: Logitech MX Mechanical + MX Palm Rest
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: X299 is a screw up by all brands, because of Intel, will EVGA fix it? [VROC, raid, PCi 2017/07/25 16:39:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby uplink_svk 2017/07/25 17:06:58
No guessing needed :-) I removed the f word for you. Note the second bold part, about masking profanity.

https://forums.evga.com/E...erms-of-Use-m4682.aspx

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justin_43
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Re: X299 is a screw up by all brands, because of Intel, will EVGA fix it? [VROC, raid, PCi 2017/07/25 17:29:44 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby uplink_svk 2017/07/26 04:33:22
The biggest problem I see with VROC is that it requires Intel branded drives to make a bootable RAID array. You happen to have Intel 750s but most people want to use other brands. Also you CAN do RAID 0 on VROC without the dongle but need to purchase it for any other level of RAID such as 1,5, or 10.
 
To answer your question about the EVGA X299 FTW K, if you look at page 25 of the manual it states that the U.2 ports are only functional with a 44 lane CPU and that both are connected to CPU lanes. So I would think VROC would work on the U.2 ports if you have a 7900x or up:
 
M.2 and U.2 Slot Breakdown
PCI-E Lane Distribution (44 Lane SKX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Gen3, x4 lanes from CPU (No Shared Lanes)
 U.2 2 – Gen3, x4 lanes from CPU (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (No Shared Lanes) (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane (No Shared Lanes)

PCI-E Lane Distribution (28 Lane SKX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 U.2 2 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (No Shared Lanes) (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane (No Shared Lanes)

PCI-E Lane Distribution (16 Lane KBX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 U.2 2 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (Gen3, x4 shared with PE5)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane
• All M.2 Key-M slots on this board support PCI-E, NVMe, and SATA M.2
standards.
o (*) If a SATA
 
 
Unfortunately for M.2 users it looks like one slot is CPU and the other is PCH. I was told that on the X299 Dark (not sure about the FTW K) if you populate the bottom PCIe 16x slot that it would shift the CPU M.2 slot to PCH lanes, so it might be possible to use both M.2 slots in (DMI 3.0 capped) PCH RAID 0. I have asked that very question in that thread but no answer yet.
 
So it looks like you might be okay to use VROC with your Intel U.2 drives, but I think someone from EVGA would have to comment to be sure at this point.

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Re: X299 is a screw up by all brands, because of Intel, will EVGA fix it? [VROC, raid, PCi 2017/07/26 04:31:47 (permalink)
@willdearborn wow, thank You! So, this means that the EVGA X299 FTW K will be the first "honest to heart" new platform motherboard. Didn't know that there's manual released, without actual motherboard release. Thank You so much!
post edited by uplink_svk - 2017/07/26 04:34:10

mobo: EVGA Z690 DARK K|NGP|N, 121-AL-E699-KR | bios: 1.14 | cpu: Intel® Core™ i9-12900T Processor | vga:  Nvidia GeForce RTX™ 3090 Ti Founders Edition | ram:  DOMINATOR® PLATINUM RGB 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 DRAM 6600MHz C32 Memory Kit — Black [SKU CMT32GX5M2X6600C32] | nvme ssd: Samsung 980 PRO NVMe™ M.2 SSD 1 TB & Samsung 980 PRO NVMe™ M.2 SSD 2 TB  | psu:  Asus ROG THOR 1000P2 GAMING cooler: Asus ROG RYUJIN II 360  | monitor #1: 31.5'' 4K OLED Display with Pixel Dimming and 1M : 1 Contrast Ratio [32EP950-B] | monitor #2: LG Ergo 27UN880 | mouse: Logitech Master 3S | keyboard: Logitech MX Mechanical + MX Palm Rest
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quadlatte
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Re: X299 is a screw up by all brands, because of Intel, will EVGA fix it? [VROC, raid, PCi 2017/08/06 12:06:47 (permalink)
willdearborn
The biggest problem I see with VROC is that it requires Intel branded drives to make a bootable RAID array. You happen to have Intel 750s but most people want to use other brands. Also you CAN do RAID 0 on VROC without the dongle but need to purchase it for any other level of RAID such as 1,5, or 10.
 
To answer your question about the EVGA X299 FTW K, if you look at page 25 of the manual it states that the U.2 ports are only functional with a 44 lane CPU and that both are connected to CPU lanes. So I would think VROC would work on the U.2 ports if you have a 7900x or up:
 
M.2 and U.2 Slot Breakdown
PCI-E Lane Distribution (44 Lane SKX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Gen3, x4 lanes from CPU (No Shared Lanes)
 U.2 2 – Gen3, x4 lanes from CPU (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (No Shared Lanes) (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane (No Shared Lanes)

PCI-E Lane Distribution (28 Lane SKX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 U.2 2 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (No Shared Lanes) (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane (No Shared Lanes)

PCI-E Lane Distribution (16 Lane KBX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 U.2 2 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (Gen3, x4 shared with PE5)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane
• All M.2 Key-M slots on this board support PCI-E, NVMe, and SATA M.2
standards.
o (*) If a SATA
 
 
Unfortunately for M.2 users it looks like one slot is CPU and the other is PCH. I was told that on the X299 Dark (not sure about the FTW K) if you populate the bottom PCIe 16x slot that it would shift the CPU M.2 slot to PCH lanes, so it might be possible to use both M.2 slots in (DMI 3.0 capped) PCH RAID 0. I have asked that very question in that thread but no answer yet.
 
So it looks like you might be okay to use VROC with your Intel U.2 drives, but I think someone from EVGA would have to comment to be sure at this point.


since m.2 is more popular than u.2 i dont know why one m.2 is on the pch, kinda gimps the system a bit. a better way would have been one m.2 and u.2 share so you can either two m.2 or two u.2 off the cpu lanes, i mean really how many will use 2 u.2 and 2 m.2 at the same time

                               
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arestavo
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Re: X299 is a screw up by all brands, because of Intel, will EVGA fix it? [VROC, raid, PCi 2017/08/06 14:10:02 (permalink)
quadlatte
willdearborn
The biggest problem I see with VROC is that it requires Intel branded drives to make a bootable RAID array. You happen to have Intel 750s but most people want to use other brands. Also you CAN do RAID 0 on VROC without the dongle but need to purchase it for any other level of RAID such as 1,5, or 10.
 
To answer your question about the EVGA X299 FTW K, if you look at page 25 of the manual it states that the U.2 ports are only functional with a 44 lane CPU and that both are connected to CPU lanes. So I would think VROC would work on the U.2 ports if you have a 7900x or up:
 
M.2 and U.2 Slot Breakdown
PCI-E Lane Distribution (44 Lane SKX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Gen3, x4 lanes from CPU (No Shared Lanes)
 U.2 2 – Gen3, x4 lanes from CPU (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (No Shared Lanes) (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane (No Shared Lanes)

PCI-E Lane Distribution (28 Lane SKX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 U.2 2 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (No Shared Lanes) (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane (No Shared Lanes)

PCI-E Lane Distribution (16 Lane KBX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 U.2 2 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (Gen3, x4 shared with PE5)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane
• All M.2 Key-M slots on this board support PCI-E, NVMe, and SATA M.2
standards.
o (*) If a SATA
 
 
Unfortunately for M.2 users it looks like one slot is CPU and the other is PCH. I was told that on the X299 Dark (not sure about the FTW K) if you populate the bottom PCIe 16x slot that it would shift the CPU M.2 slot to PCH lanes, so it might be possible to use both M.2 slots in (DMI 3.0 capped) PCH RAID 0. I have asked that very question in that thread but no answer yet.
 
So it looks like you might be okay to use VROC with your Intel U.2 drives, but I think someone from EVGA would have to comment to be sure at this point.


since m.2 is more popular than u.2 i dont know why one m.2 is on the pch, kinda gimps the system a bit. a better way would have been one m.2 and u.2 share so you can either two m.2 or two u.2 off the cpu lanes, i mean really how many will use 2 u.2 and 2 m.2 at the same time


For games, no - no it doesn't gimp a thing. For productivity work it depends on the work.
 
Don't believe me about the games? Take a look:
https://hardforum.com/thr...e-comparisons.1911914/
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Re: X299 is a screw up by all brands, because of Intel, will EVGA fix it? [VROC, raid, PCi 2017/08/07 10:27:31 (permalink)
arestavo
quadlatte
willdearborn
The biggest problem I see with VROC is that it requires Intel branded drives to make a bootable RAID array. You happen to have Intel 750s but most people want to use other brands. Also you CAN do RAID 0 on VROC without the dongle but need to purchase it for any other level of RAID such as 1,5, or 10.
 
To answer your question about the EVGA X299 FTW K, if you look at page 25 of the manual it states that the U.2 ports are only functional with a 44 lane CPU and that both are connected to CPU lanes. So I would think VROC would work on the U.2 ports if you have a 7900x or up:
 
M.2 and U.2 Slot Breakdown
PCI-E Lane Distribution (44 Lane SKX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Gen3, x4 lanes from CPU (No Shared Lanes)
 U.2 2 – Gen3, x4 lanes from CPU (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (No Shared Lanes) (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane (No Shared Lanes)

PCI-E Lane Distribution (28 Lane SKX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 U.2 2 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (No Shared Lanes) (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane (No Shared Lanes)

PCI-E Lane Distribution (16 Lane KBX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 U.2 2 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (Gen3, x4 shared with PE5)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane
• All M.2 Key-M slots on this board support PCI-E, NVMe, and SATA M.2
standards.
o (*) If a SATA
 
 
Unfortunately for M.2 users it looks like one slot is CPU and the other is PCH. I was told that on the X299 Dark (not sure about the FTW K) if you populate the bottom PCIe 16x slot that it would shift the CPU M.2 slot to PCH lanes, so it might be possible to use both M.2 slots in (DMI 3.0 capped) PCH RAID 0. I have asked that very question in that thread but no answer yet.
 
So it looks like you might be okay to use VROC with your Intel U.2 drives, but I think someone from EVGA would have to comment to be sure at this point.


since m.2 is more popular than u.2 i dont know why one m.2 is on the pch, kinda gimps the system a bit. a better way would have been one m.2 and u.2 share so you can either two m.2 or two u.2 off the cpu lanes, i mean really how many will use 2 u.2 and 2 m.2 at the same time


For games, no - no it doesn't gimp a thing. For productivity work it depends on the work.
 
Don't believe me about the games? Take a look:
https://hardforum.com/thr...e-comparisons.1911914/




Very true. You won't notice almost any difference between different SSDs for gaming. This video shows it in practice, so people can get it into their heads once and for all.
 




 
 
#9
quadlatte
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Re: X299 is a screw up by all brands, because of Intel, will EVGA fix it? [VROC, raid, PCi 2017/08/23 12:05:24 (permalink)
redleader00
arestavo
quadlatte
willdearborn
The biggest problem I see with VROC is that it requires Intel branded drives to make a bootable RAID array. You happen to have Intel 750s but most people want to use other brands. Also you CAN do RAID 0 on VROC without the dongle but need to purchase it for any other level of RAID such as 1,5, or 10.
 
To answer your question about the EVGA X299 FTW K, if you look at page 25 of the manual it states that the U.2 ports are only functional with a 44 lane CPU and that both are connected to CPU lanes. So I would think VROC would work on the U.2 ports if you have a 7900x or up:
 
M.2 and U.2 Slot Breakdown
PCI-E Lane Distribution (44 Lane SKX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Gen3, x4 lanes from CPU (No Shared Lanes)
 U.2 2 – Gen3, x4 lanes from CPU (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (No Shared Lanes) (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane (No Shared Lanes)

PCI-E Lane Distribution (28 Lane SKX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 U.2 2 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (No Shared Lanes)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (No Shared Lanes) (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane (No Shared Lanes)

PCI-E Lane Distribution (16 Lane KBX CPU’s)
 U.2 1 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 U.2 2 – Not functional with a 28/16 lane processor.
 M.2 Key-M (110mm) – x4 CPU lanes (Gen3, x4 shared with PE5)
 M.2 Key-M (80mm) – x4 PCH lanes (*)
 M.2 Key-E (32mm) – x1 PCH lane
• All M.2 Key-M slots on this board support PCI-E, NVMe, and SATA M.2
standards.
o (*) If a SATA
 
 
Unfortunately for M.2 users it looks like one slot is CPU and the other is PCH. I was told that on the X299 Dark (not sure about the FTW K) if you populate the bottom PCIe 16x slot that it would shift the CPU M.2 slot to PCH lanes, so it might be possible to use both M.2 slots in (DMI 3.0 capped) PCH RAID 0. I have asked that very question in that thread but no answer yet.
 
So it looks like you might be okay to use VROC with your Intel U.2 drives, but I think someone from EVGA would have to comment to be sure at this point.


since m.2 is more popular than u.2 i dont know why one m.2 is on the pch, kinda gimps the system a bit. a better way would have been one m.2 and u.2 share so you can either two m.2 or two u.2 off the cpu lanes, i mean really how many will use 2 u.2 and 2 m.2 at the same time


For games, no - no it doesn't gimp a thing. For productivity work it depends on the work.
 
Don't believe me about the games? Take a look:
https://hardforum.com/thr...e-comparisons.1911914/




Very true. You won't notice almost any difference between different SSDs for gaming. This video shows it in practice, so people can get it into their heads once and for all.
 



you both are missing the point and not understanding what i said, both m.2 and u.2 are nvme interfaces, so trying to interject SATA ssd's into the statement makes no sense and does not apply. do you have a U.2 SSD? how many do you think they sell to the gamer crowd? the drives are few, the price is high so most people would buy the M.2 drives instead. so that being said it would have made more sense to place BOTH M.2 ports on CPU lanes and share the lanes( as in one or the other at a time ). for the workstation crowd they might use the U.2 so they could use that instead of the m.2. 

                               
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