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Helpful ReplyHitting the RAM wall

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bg8780
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2017/04/04 06:51:51 (permalink)
Hey guys. I'm running an E770 Classified with 12gb 2000mhz Corsair RAM and a i7 970. This set: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/cmt12gx3m3a2000c9
 
It's great RAM but I'm at 11gb usage when playing most games. The day has come where 12gb seems to be the wall.
 
I have a few questions.
 
1. If I wanted to buy another 12gb kit of this great RAM where should I start. Ebay doesn't turn up anything and since it's an old kit no online shops have it in stock.
 
2. Can I run a modern DDR3 Dual channel kit in this board? What would be the maximum the 970's controller could handle? Will I see a performance hit going to dual channel instead of triple?
 
3. If I grabbed a X56xx Xeon would that enable me to run more RAM? I'd be happy with 32gb but I understand if that would not be possible.
 
4. If I went to a dual channel kit what is the maximum speed this board would accept?
 
5. Should I just go the cheap and easy route? Slap a kit like this in there and manually set all the RAM to 1600mhz at the same timings. I know it's a bad idea to mix and max RAM but if I set the speed and timings manually I should be ok.
 
 
post edited by bg8780 - 2017/04/04 06:56:00
#1
Sajin
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/04 13:00:52 (permalink)
2. I don't see why you couldn't.  I would buy this set... https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231359  24GB is the max.  Dual channel vs triple channel.
3. No, the boards max is 24GB.
4. 1600+
5. No, secondary timings may differ between both kits making them incompatible.
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bg8780
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/04 15:04:14 (permalink)
Sajin! Once again MVP.
 
Looks like I'll just have to sacrifice a tiny but of speed for capacity. $180 is a bit steep, but I'll use that as a template to shop around. 
 
Thanks again!
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Sajin
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/04 15:15:23 (permalink)
No problem. 
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somethingc00l
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/04 16:45:42 (permalink)
I'd look into why you're using 11 GB for most games, that is way over the usage most people see.
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bg8780
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/04 19:02:11 (permalink)
somethingc00l
I'd look into why you're using 11 GB for most games, that is way over the usage most people see.




I did some testing today. 11gb is the highest I see and that's only on ME:A. Overwatch never goes over 5gb. ROTTR hits around 8gb and Gears of War 4 stays around 6gb. Going to 24gb isn't absolutely necessary at this time but I fear it's going to be even harder for me to find more RAM when I actually need it.
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somethingc00l
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/04 19:54:40 (permalink)
I wonder if ME:A has a memory leak or two, reviews show 8.5 GB usage or so for system total: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/mass-effect-andromeda-performance-review,review-33848-4.html
 
Personally I wouldn't worry too much, I doubt you will see games consume much more RAM in the near future due to consoles limiting at 8 GB (not enough true PC games anymore ). Plus if you are only seeing 11 GB total that means you really have about 3-4 GB to spare as Windows can page out 2-3 GB of RAM the OS is using pretty easy if needed. More RAM is always nice I spose, but since you don't need it now I'd bank the $180 for a full system update down the way, IMHO the i7-970 is getting a little long in the tooth at this point. Or bank it and keep searching for a really good deal on some RAM. I do disagree with Sajin on #5, running kits with different timings is fine as long as you use the slower timings.
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bg8780
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/05 05:55:01 (permalink)
Thanks for your input. I found an identical Corsair kit on ebay for $100. If I win the bid then great but I'm not too worried after testing a lot of other games. ME:A is the only one using too much and given how much of a dumpster fire the game is, it's to be expected.
 
However, I disagree regarding my CPU. I'd like to upgrade to X99 or Z270 but I just can't justify it. My 970 scores 5k in Time Spy and 14k in Firestrike @ 4.2ghz. Meanwhile a 6700k scores 6200 in Timespy and 15k in Firestrike at 5ghz. I just can't justify dropping the money on new core components for such a little increase in performance. The only worthwhile upgrade would be X99 and a 6950X or 6900k, but that's a lot of cash. All I'm missing out on is NVMe SSD speeds. My RAID 0 SSD's get me 550mbps read/write which is fine enough for gaming. If my i7 970 was bottlenecking my GTX 1080 then I'd upgrade.
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somethingc00l
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/06 15:47:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bg8780 2017/04/11 11:26:05
bg8780
 If my i7 970 was bottlenecking my GTX 1080 then I'd upgrade.

I can almost guarantee it is. Not by a huge amount, but it is. Eurogamer did a great article about this last year: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-is-it-finally-time-to-upgrade-your-core-i5-2500k
 
A 2500k of course has two less cores than you, but few games make use of more than 4 cores, and the 2500k has significantly better single core performance and IPC (newer process, Sandy bridge vs Gulftown). The 970 will have a bit more memory bandwidth thanks to triple channel so it might catch up or even exceed the 2500k, but as you can see they are beating a 2500k @ 4.6 GHz fast RAM with a stock clocked i5 6500 @ 3.2 GHz.
 
I don't think you need to upgrade right now, you're probably only loosing out on maybe 10-15% of potential, but don't be fooled that you are not being limited by that CPU. You can find plenty of threads here of people who thought the same thing and finally upgraded to find they got way more FPS with a newer CPU.
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bg8780
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/11 06:08:55 (permalink)
Just using Firestrike as an example. Looks like my 970 far exceeds Sandy Bridge despite the large difference in architecture.
 
Top scoring 2500k: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/7457167
 
My 970: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/9412758 
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bg8780
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/11 06:10:13 (permalink)
By the way, I was able to find another 12gb Corsair kit on ebay for $100. It should arrive tomorrow. Then the battle begins to see if I can get my memory controller stable with 24gb at 2000mhz.
 
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rjohnson11
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/11 06:35:03 (permalink)
bg8780
By the way, I was able to find another 12gb Corsair kit on ebay for $100. It should arrive tomorrow. Then the battle begins to see if I can get my memory controller stable with 24gb at 2000mhz.
 


If not try a little looser memory timings

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X,  Corsair Mp700 Pro M.2, 64GB Corsair Dominator Titanium DDR5  X670E Steel Legend, MSI RTX 4090 Associate Code: H5U80QBH6BH0AXF. I am NOT an employee of EVGA

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bg8780
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/11 07:24:57 (permalink)
rjohnson11
bg8780
By the way, I was able to find another 12gb Corsair kit on ebay for $100. It should arrive tomorrow. Then the battle begins to see if I can get my memory controller stable with 24gb at 2000mhz.
 


If not try a little looser memory timings




Will do. I'm ok with running at 1866mhz if need be. I'll just have to tinker and see what happens. Thanks for the advice.
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somethingc00l
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/11 11:18:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bg8780 2017/04/11 11:25:59
bg8780
Just using Firestrike as an example. Looks like my 970 far exceeds Sandy Bridge despite the large difference in architecture.
 

Trying to judge real world game performance based on 3dMark is a fools errand, especially for the CPU. If you won't believe a well written review with benchmarks of actual games, how about a proper CPU benchmark: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-970-vs-Intel-Core-i5-2500K/m8374vs619
 
2500k is faster in both single core and 4 core performance which is what matters for almost every game. No skin off my back, but like I said, you are limiting your GPU with that CPU, for sure.
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bg8780
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/11 11:25:51 (permalink)
somethingc00l
bg8780
Just using Firestrike as an example. Looks like my 970 far exceeds Sandy Bridge despite the large difference in architecture.
 

Trying to judge real world game performance based on 3dMark is a fools errand, especially for the CPU. If you won't believe a well written review with benchmarks of actual games, how about a proper CPU benchmark: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-970-vs-Intel-Core-i5-2500K/m8374vs619
 
2500k is faster in both single core and 4 core performance which is what matters for almost every game. No skin off my back, but like I said, you are limiting your GPU with that CPU, for sure.




I can agree with you. I'd be an idiot to think a CPU from 2010 will keep up with modern tech. I'm just saying I don't think it's worth the money to upgrade yet. I am over 100fps in ALL games at 1440p. I'd end up spending over a grand to hit 120fps. I'll have my eyes on the upcoming X299 architecture as I believe this would be the best time to upgrade. If X299 fails to impress I'd be willing to jump over to AMD as well. Ryzen is looking pretty impressive for the money.
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somethingc00l
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/11 11:51:16 (permalink)
bg8780
 I'm just saying I don't think it's worth the money to upgrade yet. 


I can understand that. Good luck when you do go for it.
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bg8780
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Re: Hitting the RAM wall 2017/04/11 14:38:58 (permalink)
Thanks man. I plan to go all out with proper water cooling on the next build. 
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