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Hot!EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits?

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Goloith
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2020/09/28 20:36:34 (permalink)
So I recently purchased an EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 XC3 ULTRA GAMING, but what bums me out is that after spending over $1,700.00 (after tax) that this GPU has practically no overclocking potential.

Yes, I'm aware two 8-pin + PCI-E has a spec of 375w, but why the heck is the power limited to 366w? For Pete's sake, a $100 Asus GPU runs cooler and faster and is set at 375w and regularly goes over. Literally, the #1 problem why this GPU is crashing so much with even the hint of overclocking is that it's power-starved per GPU-Z. Hell even underclocking this thing and it's still capping out at 366w.

This is the first and most expensive GPU I've ever owned and it's the worst at overclocking.

We know people are able to push 500w over two 8-pin + PCI-E with a shunt mod, so please at least release a vbios/driver update to increase the power to 375w and higher!
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    thefinalhope
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/28 20:51:51 (permalink)
    I wouldn't be too worried about it honestly, it's not like you're going to get a noticeable performance in crease from the increased power bios. You really need an unlimited power BIOS/LN2 to get any meaningful overclock imo. Also, it's pretty much well known that the FTW3 and up cards are the ones for overclockers.
    #2
    ausyenlowang
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 02:16:35 (permalink)
    or from the other side of this.
    the card is already running at near maximum for on air. it gets results as advertised without the owners needing to stuff about with them. oh and even if it doesnt have 20% headroom for MORE overclocking its still the fastest and best GPU youve ever owned..
     
    also IF you could OC it by another 10 or 20% people would be accusing the manufacturers or NVIDIA of artificially holding the cards back.

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    #3
    kevinc313
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 05:37:26 (permalink)
    You might get a 380W bios but I doubt much higher. 
     
    When I heard that there was a 350w (and 320w on 3080) stock power limit, I posted everywhere I could, repeatedly, that it was critically important to get a 3x8-pin card.
     
    Buyer beware.
    #4
    HawkOculus
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 05:44:40 (permalink)
    Should’ve waited for the FTW3 Ultra then.

    It was basically the same with Turing. “Overclocking” wasn’t much of anything unless you won the silicon lottery or paid for a highly binned card like the Kingpin.

    They’re built to just plug and play and get the maximum performance possible considering the specs.

    Most people out there don’t even know that you shouldn’t use daisy chained power cables to the GPU, let alone how to properly overclock the card.

    Even with a totally unlocked BIOS with conventional cooling (and a voided warranty) you’re looking at maybe a few percentage points if you can keep the GPU really cool.

    For 99% of people it’s utterly pointless and most are clueless as to these differences anyway.
    #5
    ausyenlowang
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 06:16:00 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    You might get a 380W bios but I doubt much higher. 
     
    When I heard that there was a 350w (and 320w on 3080) stock power limit, I posted everywhere I could, repeatedly, that it was critically important to get a 3x8-pin card.
     
    Buyer beware.


    except well... tripple 8 pins not making any difference.... at all... they dont have biggerpower limits they are the same VBIOS in that regard

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    creekthagray
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 06:26:32 (permalink)
    When the site comes back up you can find the power limits of most cards on this forum and also when bios's are found this will be a good source for it.
     
    3080
    overclock..net     /threads/official-nvidia-rtx-3080-owners-club.1753932/
     
    3090
    overclock..net     /threads/official-nvidia-rtx-3090-owners-club.1753930/
    post edited by creekthagray - 2020/09/29 06:33:44
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    kevinc313
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 07:21:31 (permalink)
    ausyenlowang
    kevinc313
    You might get a 380W bios but I doubt much higher. 
     
    When I heard that there was a 350w (and 320w on 3080) stock power limit, I posted everywhere I could, repeatedly, that it was critically important to get a 3x8-pin card.
     
    Buyer beware.


    except well... tripple 8 pins not making any difference.... at all... they dont have biggerpower limits they are the same VBIOS in that regard




    You are wrong.
    #8
    ausyenlowang
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 07:36:42 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    ausyenlowang
    kevinc313
    You might get a 380W bios but I doubt much higher. 
     
    When I heard that there was a 350w (and 320w on 3080) stock power limit, I posted everywhere I could, repeatedly, that it was critically important to get a 3x8-pin card.
     
    Buyer beware.


    except well... tripple 8 pins not making any difference.... at all... they dont have biggerpower limits they are the same VBIOS in that regard




    You are wrong.


    yep i def didnt watch people OC them even on liquid nitrogen and using the standard VBIOS they were not pulling more power than the 2 pin varients..... def never saw that....
    when they threw on unlocked Vbios for i believe up to 900 watts it makes a difference, but on standard bios both are pulling 400 odd watts
    post edited by ausyenlowang - 2020/09/29 07:40:03

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    #9
    creekthagray
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 07:52:07 (permalink)
    ausyenlowang
    kevinc313
    ausyenlowang
    kevinc313
    You might get a 380W bios but I doubt much higher. 
     
    When I heard that there was a 350w (and 320w on 3080) stock power limit, I posted everywhere I could, repeatedly, that it was critically important to get a 3x8-pin card.
     
    Buyer beware.


    except well... tripple 8 pins not making any difference.... at all... they dont have biggerpower limits they are the same VBIOS in that regard




    You are wrong.


    yep i def didnt watch people OC them even on liquid nitrogen and using the standard VBIOS they were not pulling more power than the 2 pin varients..... def never saw that....
    when they threw on unlocked Vbios for i believe up to 900 watts it makes a difference, but on standard bios both are pulling 400 odd watts


     
    so if you go to the link I posted you will see that they have multiple power limits for many cards. Early pre release review hardware and software does not always allow full options such as the power limit slider. Going off release software and hardware would be better.
    #10
    kevinc313
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 07:58:51 (permalink)
    ausyenlowang
    yep i def didnt watch people OC them even on liquid nitrogen and using the standard VBIOS they were not pulling more power than the 2 pin varients..... def never saw that....
    when they threw on unlocked Vbios for i believe up to 900 watts it makes a difference, but on standard bios both are pulling 400 odd watts



    Cool man, when you get this mythical unlocked 3090 bios that is 2x8-pin compatible and able to be flashed to a card, make sure you leak it on Techpowerup and please let us all know.
     
    Good luck.
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    ausyenlowang
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 08:29:37 (permalink)
    creekthagray
    ausyenlowang
    kevinc313
    ausyenlowang
    kevinc313
    You might get a 380W bios but I doubt much higher. 
     
    When I heard that there was a 350w (and 320w on 3080) stock power limit, I posted everywhere I could, repeatedly, that it was critically important to get a 3x8-pin card.
     
    Buyer beware.


    except well... tripple 8 pins not making any difference.... at all... they dont have biggerpower limits they are the same VBIOS in that regard




    You are wrong.


    yep i def didnt watch people OC them even on liquid nitrogen and using the standard VBIOS they were not pulling more power than the 2 pin varients..... def never saw that....
    when they threw on unlocked Vbios for i believe up to 900 watts it makes a difference, but on standard bios both are pulling 400 odd watts


     
    so if you go to the link I posted you will see that they have multiple power limits for many cards. Early pre release review hardware and software does not always allow full options such as the power limit slider. Going off release software and hardware would be better.


    so the links for the 3080, gigabytes OC, the asus tuf, MSI gaming x trio and evga all have between 370-400w at stock and all clock and run within a couple of %
    seeing as the on air OC rate of those cards is still SFA you cant run 600 watts into them with more or power connectors. its when you go to LN2 etc its a possible thing. but the reality is there is less than .1% of the users will ever bother to get LN2 for cooling...

    3090s have up to 390w on 2x 8 pin and 450 on the third, thing is even with the 8pin being a 150w and the pcie being 75, we all know full well that if you can cool the chip you can draw more than that every time

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    #12
    kevinc313
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 08:52:03 (permalink)
    ausyenlowang
    so the links for the 3080, gigabytes OC, the asus tuf, MSI gaming x trio and evga all have between 370-400w at stock and all clock and run within a couple of %
    seeing as the on air OC rate of those cards is still SFA you cant run 600 watts into them with more or power connectors. its when you go to LN2 etc its a possible thing. but the reality is there is less than .1% of the users will ever bother to get LN2 for cooling...

    3090s have up to 390w on 2x 8 pin and 450 on the third, thing is even with the 8pin being a 150w and the pcie being 75, we all know full well that if you can cool the chip you can draw more than that every time




    Yes, we all know you can pull far more than the nominal 375w with 2x8-pin card.  With a complicated shunt mod + voltage boosting (see Debauer's latest) or some sort of compatible XOC bios that may be a pain to use on a daily basis.  Since the nominal limit IS 375w, there will be no officially released daily driver quality bios that is higher power than that, that you will easily be able to flash to a card. 
     
    It is likely that 3x8-pin bios will NOT work on 2x8-pin cards because of the shunt differences.  If you have a 3x8-pin card, there is a good chance you will be able to eventually flash to the highest power 3x8-pin bios released.
     
     
    post edited by kevinc313 - 2020/09/29 08:59:22
    #13
    glocked89
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/29 09:17:28 (permalink)
    I'd like to quickly add that GPUz showed my 3090(3-pin) pulling 456 watts peak during a timespy extreme run
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    kevinc313
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 13:38:52 (permalink)
    Bump.
     
    https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-nvidia-rtx-3080-owners-club.1753932/page-28#post-28640443
     
    ^NVFlash for Ampere.
     
    Looks like someone flashed a 3080 FTW3 bios onto a 2x8-pin Palit card and someone else to an XC3.  Neither worked, as expected.
     
    Really need a good XOC bios that works as a daily driver without glitches.
    post edited by kevinc313 - 2020/09/30 14:06:56
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    arestavo
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 14:01:04 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    Bump.
     
    https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-nvidia-rtx-3080-owners-club.1753932/page-29
     
    Looks like someone flashed a 3080 FTW3 bios onto a 2x8-pin Palit card and it ran at 400w.  So, we'll have to see.  No word on a 3080 Strix bios yet.


    Just flashed me a 480W VBIOS on my 3090 FTW3 - testing now (ICX sensors all still show)

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    kevinc313
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 14:05:17 (permalink)
    arestavo
    kevinc313
    Bump.
     
    https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-nvidia-rtx-3080-owners-club.1753932/page-29
     
    Looks like someone flashed a 3080 FTW3 bios onto a 2x8-pin Palit card and it ran at 400w.  So, we'll have to see.  No word on a 3080 Strix bios yet.


    Just flashed me a 480W VBIOS on my 3090 FTW3 - testing now (ICX sensors all still show)




    ^SEE MY EDITED POST.  
    #17
    arestavo
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 14:12:58 (permalink)
    kevinc313
    arestavo
    kevinc313
    Bump.
     
    https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-nvidia-rtx-3080-owners-club.1753932/page-29
     
    Looks like someone flashed a 3080 FTW3 bios onto a 2x8-pin Palit card and it ran at 400w.  So, we'll have to see.  No word on a 3080 Strix bios yet.


    Just flashed me a 480W VBIOS on my 3090 FTW3 - testing now (ICX sensors all still show)




    ^SEE MY EDITED POST.  


    It flashed with the -6 flag. Trying it now (had to reboot for driver reinstall after the reboot for flashing)

    GPU-Z shows a 480W limit now instead of 450, but even at full stock (power limit slider and fans maxed) I still get the power limit flag in port Royal.

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    ehabash1
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 14:30:31 (permalink)
    blah we could really use the kingpin bios. I'm guessing they will stick with 520watt, but it will be easy to flash an evga with another evga
    #19
    AnonymousGuy
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 14:35:34 (permalink)
    The conclusion I got from derbauer is that raising the power limit, via shunt mod, doesn't really make any difference to the peak boost the card gets.  Maybe just stabilizes it a bit in heavier workloads.
     
    If this is correct then it really won't matter what BIOS is being used if none of them unlock the voltage?
     
    (And jesus christ 85 pages on OCN....good luck finding anything in that like "can I flash the strix bios to the tuf card")


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    ehabash1
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 14:43:07 (permalink)
    https://www.3dmark.com/pr/345877
     
    it makes a difference. Check out this guys port royal score of about 15,000
     
    whats interesting is that he has a clock of 2175 but an average clock of only 2104. his temps are pretty good at 43 C 
    Flashing or even power mods are never as good as buying the better card. The transient response/ VRMs/ ext.  The power delivery is just better. 
    If the same guy shunt modded a ftw3 instead of a lower end msi card his performance would be better
     
    take a look at jays2cents for example
    https://www.3dmark.com/pr/349585
    post edited by ehabash1 - 2020/09/30 14:59:43
    #21
    arestavo
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 14:51:46 (permalink)
    ehabash1
    https://www.3dmark.com/pr/345877
     
    it makes a difference. Check out this guys port royal score of about 15,000


    2104MHz average clockspeed? Must be water or an AC like Jayz2cents used.

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    HeavyHemi
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 14:57:40 (permalink)
    Also... three 8 pin PCIe connectors allow the PWM to be designed to spread the power delivery over 3 +12 inputs. At the bare minimum this increases current carrying capacity TO the GPU never mind as I indicated before, being able to design a PWM where the load is spread out.

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    AnonymousGuy
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 14:58:39 (permalink)
    ehabash1
    https://www.3dmark.com/pr/345877
     
    it makes a difference. Check out this guys port royal score of about 15,000




    Be nice if 3dmark allowed comments on scores so the submitter can say what they did.  Sounds like since I'm planning on shunt modding anyways (derbauer practically gave a how-to) I don't really care what bios I use.
     
    Is there any way to see what the "end" of the the boost table looks like?  Like what the max is if you had perfect temperature, unlimited power, and whatever the voltage limit is.


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    AnonymousGuy
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 15:04:48 (permalink)
    HeavyHemi
    Also... three 8 pin PCIe connectors allow the PWM to be designed to spread the power delivery over 3 +12 inputs. At the bare minimum this increases current carrying capacity TO the GPU never mind as I indicated before, being able to design a PWM where the load is spread out.


    Based on the Buildzoid 3080 pcb breakdown it sounds like the stock (FE/Asus) VRM can handle something like 400 amps to the core alone without going hugely outside the efficiency curve.  (9 phase and the power stages are 70A)
     
    2 vs. 3 connector....considering the actual 8 pin limit is closer to 300W we're talking 2 pin having a total limit of about 600W (including the PCIe slot power).   I think derbauer got somewhere in the neighborhood 550?W with voltage modding too.  (In other words, probably not going to be useful having the 3rd connector unless you're in LN2/chilled water absurdity)
    post edited by AnonymousGuy - 2020/09/30 15:10:00


    #25
    kevinc313
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 15:22:53 (permalink)
    arestavo
    kevinc313
    arestavo
    kevinc313
    Bump.
     
    https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-nvidia-rtx-3080-owners-club.1753932/page-29
     
    Looks like someone flashed a 3080 FTW3 bios onto a 2x8-pin Palit card and it ran at 400w.  So, we'll have to see.  No word on a 3080 Strix bios yet.


    Just flashed me a 480W VBIOS on my 3090 FTW3 - testing now (ICX sensors all still show)




    ^SEE MY EDITED POST.  


    It flashed with the -6 flag. Trying it now (had to reboot for driver reinstall after the reboot for flashing)

    GPU-Z shows a 480W limit now instead of 450, but even at full stock (power limit slider and fans maxed) I still get the power limit flag in port Royal.



    BENCH IT!!!
     
    LOL.
    #26
    kevinc313
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 15:38:15 (permalink)
    ehabash1
    https://www.3dmark.com/pr/345877
     
    it makes a difference. Check out this guys port royal score of about 15,000
     
    whats interesting is that he has a clock of 2175 but an average clock of only 2104. his temps are pretty good at 43 C 
    Flashing or even power mods are never as good as buying the better card. The transient response/ VRMs/ ext.  The power delivery is just better. 
    If the same guy shunt modded a ftw3 instead of a lower end msi card his performance would be better
     
    take a look at jays2cents for example
    https://www.3dmark.com/pr/349585




    Please stop posting these like they are stock 3090 FTW3 cards OC'd on ambient air.  Jayz is definitely using at least a portable AC unit with box and likely an unlocked bios in that run from yesterday.  He just posted a pic on twitter of a 3090 FTW3 with a chip waterblock on it.
     
    https://twitter.com/JayzT...us/1311415921504788480
     
    Here is the stream of Tech Jesus OC'ing a STOCK 3090 FTW3 (440w nominal) on air, he got 14,394 in Port Royal.
     
    https://youtu.be/k8Q5di0YzLc?t=11372
     
    Here is Der8aur with a shunt mod and volt mod running ~500w and sustaining ~2,100mhz on air, picking up 10% in TSE GPU #1.
     
    https://youtu.be/5AA7GlV-xis?t=705
     
    Anyone averaging 2,100mhz in TSE or Port Royal is almost definitely running a power mod of some sort (shunt or bios).  Prove me wrong.
    #27
    HeavyHemi
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 16:01:33 (permalink)
    AnonymousGuy
    HeavyHemi
    Also... three 8 pin PCIe connectors allow the PWM to be designed to spread the power delivery over 3 +12 inputs. At the bare minimum this increases current carrying capacity TO the GPU never mind as I indicated before, being able to design a PWM where the load is spread out.


    Based on the Buildzoid 3080 pcb breakdown it sounds like the stock (FE/Asus) VRM can handle something like 400 amps to the core alone without going hugely outside the efficiency curve.  (9 phase and the power stages are 70A)
     
    2 vs. 3 connector....considering the actual 8 pin limit is closer to 300W we're talking 2 pin having a total limit of about 600W (including the PCIe slot power).   I think derbauer got somewhere in the neighborhood 550?W with voltage modding too.  (In other words, probably not going to be useful having the 3rd connector unless you're in LN2/chilled water absurdity)


     
    Wonderful. How about we stick with the card under discussion a 3090. I agree a 3rd PCIe imput would be less useful on a 3080, but that isn't the topic.  It always a bit amusing seeing folks opining about completely blowing past the PCIe specs as if they are irrelevant. Lastly, the limit on a PCIe plug is limited by wire gauge and what the PSU can supply. The HARD limits are imposed by the DEVICE not the cables  powering them. An important distinction many blur.
    post edited by HeavyHemi - 2020/09/30 16:03:59

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    #28
    chumeniuk
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 16:23:16 (permalink)
    And here my 3090 FTW can't get above 13375 in Port Royal.  However, temps are much different in a case, even with fans at 100% for both the case and card.  I can only do a +120 GPU and +700 memory with the power set at 107%.  The last status that GPU-Z shows when it crashes is related to voltage which I assume means that enough power can't be delivered.  
     
    http://www.3dmark.com/pr/351910
    #29
    kevinc313
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    Re: EVGA, what's with the subpar power limits? 2020/09/30 16:32:14 (permalink)
    chumeniuk
    And here my 3090 FTW can't get above 13375 in Port Royal.  However, temps are much different in a case, even with fans at 100% for both the case and card.  I can only do a +120 GPU and +700 memory with the power set at 107%.  The last status that GPU-Z shows when it crashes is related to voltage which I assume means that enough power can't be delivered.  
     
    http://www.3dmark.com/pr/351910




    Yeah you need better temps. 
     
    What PSU and the rest of the system?
    #30
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