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Hot!Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ?

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Tgimp
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2019/07/13 19:23:52 (permalink)
I have had 2 980Ti pop and catch fire. The first ruined the card and my MSI X99 ACK motherboard that board was $500 and I now have a I-7 5960X sitting in a box. That's another $950 im out. Since the CPU socket was outdated I had to purchase a new mother board and CPU another $800. So $2250 later.... EVGA replaced the card as it was in warranty. The second Ti blew today. Red and orange flame then a beautiful orange glow in the exact same place as the first. Customer service said I was out of luck on the second card because its out of warranty. I researched burning cards and this seemed to also affect the 10 series. This isn't a random failure due to age of the product.This is a design flaw, lack of cooling and or cheap parts. What is more disturbing as this is accepted in the industry and the consumer is out hundreds if not thousands of $$$. Myself I don't find this acceptable. Not only am I worried my remaining 980Ti will eventually do the same but that I wont be sitting there when it happens.  

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    Chaos_21
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/13 19:28:24 (permalink)
    kind of looks like damage from a soldering iron.

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/13 19:58:15 (permalink)
    Welcome to the Forum
    A very out of focus image.

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/13 20:12:02 (permalink)
    Unfortunately, the rate of EVGA 900 series cards' power stages burning out has skyrocketed. It has become a well established trend. There is no reason for anyone to doubt your story. Good luck on your endeavors!
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    Nereus
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/13 21:21:40 (permalink)
     
    Hmm.. I have a 980 Ti SC sitting in my Mrs' desktop....  it doesn't get much use though.
     

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    bill1024
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/13 21:29:20 (permalink)
    I am interested in that i7-5960x you have laying around if you want to get rid of it.
     
    And I do still have 2 980Ti, maybe it is time to do that trade in on a new 20 series card.
     
    Good luck OP, I know I would not be happy if my cards burst into flames.
    post edited by bill1024 - 2019/07/13 21:30:55

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    Tgimp
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/13 22:39:12 (permalink)
    Its out of focus because the phone wont focus that close up. That's the best it can do. And no its not a solder job. that's a half melted chip. My last card was worse. As far as the 5960x I appreciate the offer but i'm still hunting for another motherboard to put it in. I have had EVGA since the 200 series and I always buy a pair for sli. This is the first cards I have ever had issues with. After reading other forums its happening a lot with the 9 and 10 series cards. With the strong reputation EVGA has built I am really surprised they didn't recall these cards. The only thing that's left is greed. It will take one house burning down and someone dying for them to do something about it. I saw an article where they were doing a software update to make the fans blow more to cool the cards & sending out kits to fix the issue or you could send in your card on the 10 series and they would replace the card with another. So they knew this was a issue even back to my 9 series and it carried over to the 10 series. Anyone who has these cards should be notified of the potential fire hazard. Im contacting an attorney Monday and a local TV station that covers consumer affairs. I'm simply tired of companies making millions off of consumers and were left with defective products based on poor design.  
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    Brad_Hawthorne
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/13 23:17:49 (permalink)
    Just a thought but if two separate cards did a similar failure within a short time period that would be a major hint that if the power supply was the same in both instances, that the PSU might be at fault, not the GPU. It's a sad fact, but most people look at the PSU as an afterthought in their builds when it's the heart of the build. A bad PSU can screw up a build fast and with catastrophic results.
    post edited by Brad_Hawthorne - 2019/07/13 23:19:05
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    wmmills
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/13 23:21:33 (permalink)
    Tgimp
    Its out of focus because the phone wont focus that close up. That's the best it can do. And no its not a solder job. that's a half melted chip. My last card was worse. As far as the 5960x I appreciate the offer but i'm still hunting for another motherboard to put it in. I have had EVGA since the 200 series and I always buy a pair for sli. This is the first cards I have ever had issues with. After reading other forums its happening a lot with the 9 and 10 series cards. With the strong reputation EVGA has built I am really surprised they didn't recall these cards. The only thing that's left is greed. It will take one house burning down and someone dying for them to do something about it. I saw an article where they were doing a software update to make the fans blow more to cool the cards & sending out kits to fix the issue or you could send in your card on the 10 series and they would replace the card with another. So they knew this was a issue even back to my 9 series and it carried over to the 10 series. Anyone who has these cards should be notified of the potential fire hazard. Im contacting an attorney Monday and a local TV station that covers consumer affairs. I'm simply tired of companies making millions off of consumers and were left with defective products based on poor design.  


    This is more of a nvidia design problem than a evga problem. I would take my concerns to nvidia if your going to go that far with it.

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    Nereus
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/14 00:26:24 (permalink)
     
    Brad and WMMills both make very good points above. The fact the same issue has happened to 2 of your cards does bring into question the PSU being a factor (assuming it was the same rig). If you start contacting TV stations and making accusations that get on air, you could end up on the ugly end of a libel action. If you get an attorney who is half way decent, they will very likely tell you the same. It sucks certainly, but unless you can definitively prove fault, you could end up making things a lot worse for yourself. Be careful, and good luck.
     
     
    post edited by Nereus - 2019/07/14 00:27:31

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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/14 01:57:58 (permalink)
    Nereus
     
    Brad and WMMills both make very good points above. The fact the same issue has happened to 2 of your cards does bring into question the PSU being a factor (assuming it was the same rig). If you start contacting TV stations and making accusations that get on air, you could end up on the ugly end of a libel action. If you get an attorney who is half way decent, they will very likely tell you the same. It sucks certainly, but unless you can definitively prove fault, you could end up making things a lot worse for yourself. Be careful, and good luck.
     



    My thoughts exactly.  Better bring certified evidence with huge backing when going against big tech.

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    bill1024
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/14 02:20:38 (permalink)
    Have you called them and told them about the MB going out with the card?
    Be real nice, polite,  sweet talk them. get more flies with honey......
     
    If anything it would be a small claims court action, you file and they get served to appear.
    Make your case to the judge. If you lose you may have to pay their court costs.
    And may vary from state to state on how it all works.  Lawyers could cost more than the value of the parts. If you use one that is.
    If not going with a lawyer be prepared to prove their product is faulty. there are a lot still in use with no issues.
    Sorry you having the issues. Seems like a lot cause most people do not go to a Co. web site to say how great the product is.
    They go there to complain about a faulty product so it seems out of proportion.
    Good luck what ever you do.
    post edited by bill1024 - 2019/07/14 09:43:58

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    #12
    STR1D3R_2
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/14 04:40:35 (permalink)
    In my trade I see a ton of damaged electrical components. In almost all cases it is due to poor or improper  wiring in a home. Old fuse style panels, cloth covered wire, poorly grounded panels, overloaded panels and or circuits, shorted circuits, loose connections, undersized wiring etc etc.
    Couple any one of the above with a component that draws a lot of power and runs hot and you WILL have an issue, over and over.
    Get your electrical system checked out by a licensed electrician asap for your own piece of mind. Additionally, in my experience, no cases will be heard without having that performed.
    post edited by STR1D3R_2 - 2019/07/14 04:56:51

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    JGLuxe
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/14 07:41:32 (permalink)
    It was time for an upgrade anyways... who the heck is still using the 900 series?
     
    Everyone wants to sue everyone these days... Welcome to America I guess.


    #14
    EVGATech_JoseC
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/14 09:29:02 (permalink)
    Hello,

    You can email us over at legal@evga.com as we do not have a phone number that you can call for that reason in particular. I'll forward this case to upper management but your graphics cards is a little bit over a year out of warranty at this point.
     
    Thanks,
    Jose C.
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    Tgimp
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/14 13:46:22 (permalink)
    Thank you Jose. I will send an email. For the rest who replied. Thank you for the feedback. I get it these are older cards and they don't last forever. But when 2 cards of the same series fail in the same way and there are plenty of internet posts of this happening to people other than myself and it happening to more than one series of cards. On top of that EVGA admitted there was a problem with the cooling of the cards and issued thermal pad kits to help resolve the issue. pcmag.com/news/349319/evga-patches-graphics-cards-to-stop-them-catching-fire  . It was not the power supply, as I tested it also. It is a EVGA 1600 P2. I swapped it out with a Thermaltake 850. If it really was the power supply then were back to EVGA. This is not about being whiny. This is a building frustration over recent years of failing products whether due to poor design or purchasing cheap part to to cut costs. Thermal pads cost pennies to produce and probably some number cruncher at corporate said we could save X # $$$ by not installing them and the money we will make will more than cover any that fail. This is all at the cost of the consumer. I'm not rich but I worked hard for the money I spend on these products. I research every part I put into a build and I try and buy the best. This is why I have been buying EVGA for so many years. Their customer service has always been top notch and the products generally stand the test of time. I am more frustrated as to the indifferent response I received when I called in. And a trusted company not doing the right thing. Stand behind your product when it fails! I don't want to take legal action but if that is my last and only recourse then so be it. I know the value of the time and work it took to make the money i used to purchase these products. But I wont be like today's generation of "Well that's just the way it is, deal with it". My mom will buy me another one.
    post edited by Tgimp - 2019/07/14 14:05:05
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    EVGATech_JoseC
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/14 14:36:36 (permalink)
    Tgimp

     
    To address the article and to us admitting that there was something wrong with the cards, which we do not. This 'issue' only applied to the EVGA GeForce GTX 10 series of graphics cards, not the 900 series. The article could have been worded differently, but clicks need to be made. A BIOS patch cannot magically save a defective capacitor. We issued BIOS updates to increase the fan curve and offered the thermal pad mod to alleviate customer concerns about the temperatures of the VRM's, which were proven to not be overheating in the first place. Misinformation about the thermals were spreading. You can find a detailed and scientific analysis about this here https://www.gamersnexus.n...st-and-analysis/page-1
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    pbniel
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/15 05:49:58 (permalink)
    Not an attorney, but do review and construct insurance programs for large entities:
     
    1. Manufacturers are responsible for their products and the resultant damage they do.
     
    2. Replacing the product itself is usually a contractual warranty thing with the manufacturer setting the terms and the customer accepting them or going to litigation or obtaining government help like the state attorney general.
     
    3. Liability for damage to other property or persons is usually covered under the manufacturers liability insurance for civil liability. If it can be proved that the manufacturer knew of the defect and did nothing - then it could become criminal. Criminal charges, in my experience, are very hard to prove but it has happened usually when a serious injury or death has occurred.
     
    4. Manufacturers such as EVGA are often self-insured or have a large self-insured retention for their products insurance, so they try to avoid ever accepting liability for damage other than warranty. Additionally, they employ legal departments that would cost them little additional expense to defend individual lawsuits. These two factors make it an uphill battle for an individual to prove and pursue a case for resultant damage in court. Once again as in warranty coverage there is of course the alternative governmental route such the state attorney general or insurance department.
     
    5. If it can be proved that the manufacturer acted in "bad faith" in handling the products liability claim this can open up punitive and/or other damages but this bar is even higher.
     
    6. All litigation is costly - the going rate for attorneys is $500 to $1000 an hour unless you can get them to take the case on contingency where they get 30 to 50% of the award. Not many would take a case worth less than $5,000 on this basis. If you are able to get a class action going the usual payout is less than $100 per claim with the attorneys making a lot of money.
     
    7. On a high level if the entire software and hardware computer industry were held fully responsible for it's products the damages to equipment, the lost time fixing problems (windows 10 updates), and replacing lost data would probably bankrupt every company out there including Microsoft so we would have no computers or at least any real innovation. Society would not look favorably on this vs a one off or even a class action.
     
    All this means it probably is not worth your while to become an adversary - appealing to EVGA customer satisfaction is the best bet or simply vote with any future money.
    post edited by pbniel - 2019/07/15 05:51:19
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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/15 07:03:10 (permalink)
    I guess use at your own risk means nothing.
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    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/07/15 07:07:29

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    #19
    pbniel
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/15 07:57:10 (permalink)
    You are right in many cases "use at your own risk" can mean nothing. These are so called contracts of Adhesion which are contracts drafted by one party (usually a business with stronger bargaining power) and signed by another party (usually one with weaker bargaining power, usually a consumer in need of goods or services). The second party typically does not have the power to negotiate or modify the terms of the contract. Adhesion contracts are commonly used for matters involving insurance, leases, deeds, mortgages, automobile purchases, and other forms of consumer credit. Courts carefully scrutinize adhesion contracts and sometimes void certain provisions because of the possibility of unequal bargaining power, unfairness, and unconscionability.
    The futility of pursuing claims like this comes more from an economic and ability to take stress than it does from the pure legal side. I see these types of waivers voided all the time at swimming pools, manufacturers of power equipment etc. In insurance this flows from the concept that you cannot or should not be able to contract away your own liability. If the customer is at fault it is another scenario.
    #20
    JGLuxe
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/15 11:44:37 (permalink)
    pbniel
    Not an attorney, but do review and construct insurance programs for large entities:
     
    1. Manufacturers are responsible for their products and the resultant damage they do. 
     
    2. Replacing the product itself is usually a contractual warranty thing with the manufacturer setting the terms and the customer accepting them or going to litigation or obtaining government help like the state attorney general.
     
    3. Liability for damage to other property or persons is usually covered under the manufacturers liability insurance for civil liability. If it can be proved that the manufacturer knew of the defect and did nothing - then it could become criminal. Criminal charges, in my experience, are very hard to prove but it has happened usually when a serious injury or death has occurred.
     
    4. Manufacturers such as EVGA are often self-insured or have a large self-insured retention for their products insurance, so they try to avoid ever accepting liability for damage other than warranty. Additionally, they employ legal departments that would cost them little additional expense to defend individual lawsuits. These two factors make it an uphill battle for an individual to prove and pursue a case for resultant damage in court. Once again as in warranty coverage there is of course the alternative governmental route such the state attorney general or insurance department.
     
    5. If it can be proved that the manufacturer acted in "bad faith" in handling the products liability claim this can open up punitive and/or other damages but this bar is even higher.
     
    6. All litigation is costly - the going rate for attorneys is $500 to $1000 an hour unless you can get them to take the case on contingency where they get 30 to 50% of the award. Not many would take a case worth less than $5,000 on this basis. If you are able to get a class action going the usual payout is less than $100 per claim with the attorneys making a lot of money.
     
    7. On a high level if the entire software and hardware computer industry were held fully responsible for it's products the damages to equipment, the lost time fixing problems (windows 10 updates), and replacing lost data would probably bankrupt every company out there including Microsoft so we would have no computers or at least any real innovation. Society would not look favorably on this vs a one off or even a class action.
     
    All this means it probably is not worth your while to become an adversary - appealing to EVGA customer satisfaction is the best bet or simply vote with any future money.




    First of all, This is straight from the FTC : 
     
    • Does the warranty cover "consequential damages?" Many warranties do not cover damages caused by the product, or your time and expense in getting the damage repaired. For example, if your freezer breaks and the food spoils, the company will not pay for the lost food. 
    • Are there any conditions or limitations on the warranty? Some warranties provide coverage only if you maintain or use the product as directed. For example, a warranty may cover only personal uses—as opposed to business uses—of the product. Make sure the warranty will meet your needs.
    So technically, If it was the cause of damage, they are not liable for anything past the product that was damaged.
     
     
    2nd of all, he should've bought extended warranty to help. This whole talk about lawsuits makes me sick, Take it as a lesson, go buy another companies product, who cares. I don't think the eVGA will care if a lawsuit hungry individual stops giving them money (Which it obviously isn't a lot of money, since you still have the 900 series)
    post edited by the_Scarlet_one - 2019/07/15 13:11:00


    #21
    pbniel
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    Re: Does EVGA have a Legal representation contact # ? 2019/07/19 03:27:32 (permalink)
    Agree that lawsuits may make you sick they do me also.
     
    But:
    1. The FTC has little to do with civil liability.
    2. Warranties apply to the product and often try to throw in language about consequential damage but the consequential damage is product liability which is decided by a finder of fact (ie a court). 
     
    As indicated there are some economic and logistical bars to recovery for consequential damages but it does happen (Microsoft has paid a few) even with a 73 page disclaimer. In the case of EVGA and the value of computer parts, I would still recommend appealing to their customer centric philosophy or just spend your money elsewhere
     
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