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Hot!Delid 7940x or not?

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boinger
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2019/08/15 01:14:00 (permalink)
I am running at 4.8ghz right now at 1.27 vcore and 1.725 vccin, rest is on auto. Dimms are at 1.4v too. 
 
I do hit the thermal limits in stress tests of 100C, and I understand the processor will throttle itself to prevent damage. Idle temps are 35C
 
So the question is should I even bother to delid this chip? I feel for the work I do I never am going to run all cores max all the time so might not be a point. 
I have the tools right here and ready to go, but I don't know if there is a point to it. 
 
Anyone else not delided their cpu? 
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    a213m
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/15 02:24:23 (permalink)
    Do it, it's worth it.

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    tbrown7552
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/15 07:25:13 (permalink)
    Do it. Cooler temps means longer life.
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    EVGATech_JoseR
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/18 07:30:37 (permalink)
    never tried it but it looks like a nice day's project and if you don't mind voiding the warranty and confident in what you're doing then more power to you.
    #4
    boinger
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/18 15:38:42 (permalink)
    So I delidded the cpu and put liquid metal on. But I didn't clean out the silicone and stuff so it still looks relatively stock. 
     
    Will that make a big difference I saw on toms hardware it didn't?
    #5
    a213m
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/18 16:30:17 (permalink)
    boinger
    So I delidded the cpu and put liquid metal on. But I didn't clean out the silicone and stuff so it still looks relatively stock. 
     
    Will that make a big difference I saw on toms hardware it didn't?



    Did you see an improvement in temperatures?
     
    I would clean off the old silicone and reattach the IHS with black silicone sealant or black liquid tape, if stock appearance is important to you.

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    boinger
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/18 17:23:16 (permalink)
    a213m
    boinger
    So I delidded the cpu and put liquid metal on. But I didn't clean out the silicone and stuff so it still looks relatively stock. 
     
    Will that make a big difference I saw on toms hardware it didn't?



    Did you see an improvement in temperatures?
     
    I would clean off the old silicone and reattach the IHS with black silicone sealant or black liquid tape, if stock appearance is important to you.




    I did about 10-15C
    #7
    Hoggle
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/18 22:34:55 (permalink)
    Sounds like a nice improvement though as you said it's unlikely you will need it cooler since you are unlikely to max it.

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    boinger
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/18 22:49:01 (permalink)
    Hoggle
    Sounds like a nice improvement though as you said it's unlikely you will need it cooler since you are unlikely to max it.




    Yea that's what I am thinking. Although 2 cores run rather 10C higher than the others. But they did that before too. I have it running at all cores 4900 Mhz right now except 2 at 4800Mhz. Vccin:1.76 Vcore: 1.305
     
    Passes Occt with avx for 1 hr 
     
    Seems decent. I don't know how much more I could get out of this chip. 
    #9
    EVGATech_JoseR
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/19 06:10:03 (permalink)
    boinger
    So I delidded the cpu and put liquid metal on. But I didn't clean out the silicone and stuff so it still looks relatively stock. 
     
    Will that make a big difference I saw on toms hardware it didn't?




    Is it mimetic polyalloy?
    #10
    boinger
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/19 12:03:30 (permalink)
    EVGATech_JoseR
    boinger
    So I delidded the cpu and put liquid metal on. But I didn't clean out the silicone and stuff so it still looks relatively stock. 
     
    Will that make a big difference I saw on toms hardware it didn't?




    Is it mimetic polyalloy?




    Not sure what that is. 
     
    But what i used is coollabratory liquid ultra. 
    #11
    Cool GTX
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/19 13:11:52 (permalink)
    Good info found here (even if your not using the EVGA X299 Dark)
     
    https://xdevs.com/guide/e299ocg/#delid

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    #12
    boinger
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/19 19:45:22 (permalink)
    So I delidded the chip again and cleaned off the black silicone. Now my temps are actually 5C higher than they were prior to the delidding. And my same stable OC now seems unstable. 
     
    Could it be I put on too little liquid metal ?
     
    Edit: I think I know what might be the problem. Since the height of the IHS is now lower I am guessing I am not getting enough mounting pressure on the water block. I will shim the water block tomorrow and see if that improves things. 
    post edited by boinger - 2019/08/20 02:25:18
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    EVGATech_JoseR
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/25 07:11:32 (permalink)

    the only true liquid metal!
    #14
    dwexpress
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/08/29 08:45:08 (permalink)
    boinger
    So I delidded the chip again and cleaned off the black silicone. Now my temps are actually 5C higher than they were prior to the delidding. And my same stable OC now seems unstable. 
     
    Could it be I put on too little liquid metal ?
     
    Edit: I think I know what might be the problem. Since the height of the IHS is now lower I am guessing I am not getting enough mounting pressure on the water block. I will shim the water block tomorrow and see if that improves things. 




    The correct amount of liquid metal makes a big difference, i delidded my 7980xe and wasn't satisfied so took it back apart and applied more liquid metal and made a big difference. i also removed all of the oem silicone and adhesive then just used a very minimal amount of silicone on each corner when putting it back together to just basically keep the lid in place. I also used the clear nail polish around the die in case of drip.
    post edited by dwexpress - 2019/08/29 09:03:33

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    #15
    RainStryke
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/01 12:19:21 (permalink)
    I delided my i7 7820x and applied MX4 to it instead of liquid metal and the results were about 10C-15C lower than before deliding. After messing around with it a few times I found my self losing patience and not tightening the CPU cooler mounting screws all the way, which made the heat transfer really poor. Overclocking for me was basically the same as before the delid... I did not get any extra headroom. The earlier the better I suppose... I hate that they didn't solder this line-up.

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    GGTV-Jon
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/02 16:46:38 (permalink)
    I run a delided 7040x with TG LM, I use 4.8 locked as my OC - full custom loop
     
    For LM application this is a good video to watch -
     
     
    Are you using LM between both the CPU / IHS and IHS / Water block?
     
    When taking apart either the IHS or just the Block from the IHS you need to make sure you re spread the LM
     
     
    Shimming should not be required, the height difference with the silicon removed from the IHS / Chip body should not be enough to affect how tight you can get your cooler tightend
    post edited by GGTV-Jon - 2019/09/02 16:48:40


    #17
    boinger
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/07 00:38:17 (permalink)
    Update. 
     
    I was getting frustrated with the IHS. So I ended up just doing direct die. 
     
    I got the derbuar direct die guard and set it all up. Strange no improvement in temps. In fact worse than ihs and when ihs was not cleaned.
     
    I am really suspecting the waterblock is not making good contact or something is getting in the way. 
     
    I am going to try a new waterblock and see how that goes. 
    #18
    DEJ915
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/07 18:31:13 (permalink)
    boinger
    Update. 
     
    I was getting frustrated with the IHS. So I ended up just doing direct die. 
     
    I got the derbuar direct die guard and set it all up. Strange no improvement in temps. In fact worse than ihs and when ihs was not cleaned.
     
    I am really suspecting the waterblock is not making good contact or something is getting in the way. 
     
    I am going to try a new waterblock and see how that goes. 


    Before you buy new waterblock you could try to use some washers to increase mounting pressure.
    #19
    GGTV-Jon
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/07 18:49:23 (permalink)
    Any pictures of your application of the LM?


    #20
    jollydet
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/07 21:52:17 (permalink)
    I ended up with the best temps using a Rockitcool IHS with LM on my 7960x
    1.22v 4.8ghz 68-72c under blender/cinebench runs with a lapped ek supremacy.
     
    I had no luck going direct die even with a lapped block and i tried 3 different waterblocks from heatkiller and ek.  The die on my 7960x is very convex and i would always have a huge delta between the cores when delidded with no ihs no matter what kind of LM application. With the rockitcool ihs i see about 5-7c between the cores, i went through about 4g of lm testing many thermal solutions. If anyone wants a iceman delid die gaurd or a derbau8r die guard i will let them go cheap, the Iceman unit is actually much nicer and retains the stock backplate.
    #21
    boinger
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/08 01:22:42 (permalink)
    DEJ915
    boinger
    Update. 
     
    I was getting frustrated with the IHS. So I ended up just doing direct die. 
     
    I got the derbuar direct die guard and set it all up. Strange no improvement in temps. In fact worse than ihs and when ihs was not cleaned.
     
    I am really suspecting the waterblock is not making good contact or something is getting in the way. 
     
    I am going to try a new waterblock and see how that goes. 


    Before you buy new waterblock you could try to use some washers to increase mounting pressure.




    I did try that didn't help 
     
    I don't have pictures of my liquid metal application as I have already removed it. 
     
    I did end up swapping the water block to a ek-supremacy evo and most of the temps are back within reasonable range.
     
    Except I have 3 turd cores that just refuse to clock high at all. I can run 11 at 49x but 3 at 42x and even then they overheat on a stress test. 
     
    I really thought direct die would help. But it has not.
    #22
    jollydet
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/08 15:16:28 (permalink)
    are you applying liquid metal to your block and die? do you have a screenshot of hwinfo64 showing the hot cores? if you have some cores overheating and some cores at reasonable temps then that is an application or contact issue, take the block off and use some regular thermal paste reinstall/ pull the block back off and look at the imprint, you can also try rotating the block. if you are delidded and have cores hitting tjmax it sounds like not enough liquid metal or it wasn't applied to both surfaces, even with terrible contact you shouldn't be getting anywhere close to tjmax on any core once delidded.
    #23
    boinger
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/08 17:00:56 (permalink)
    jollydet
    are you applying liquid metal to your block and die? do you have a screenshot of hwinfo64 showing the hot cores? if you have some cores overheating and some cores at reasonable temps then that is an application or contact issue, take the block off and use some regular thermal paste reinstall/ pull the block back off and look at the imprint, you can also try rotating the block. if you are delidded and have cores hitting tjmax it sounds like not enough liquid metal or it wasn't applied to both surfaces, even with terrible contact you shouldn't be getting anywhere close to tjmax on any core once delidded.




    I am delidded and direct die, thermal grizzly on die. Take a look at the screenshot I have attached and the voltages. for the respective turd cores are highlighted in red. 
     
    Look at the max temps as those are what it reaches consistently on a stress test will go higher but it crashes. 
     

    Attached Image(s)

    #24
    jollydet
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/08 17:07:10 (permalink)
    did you apply lm to the block and the die? you either dont have enough LM or it wasnt applied to both surfaces.
     
    also how are you applying your overclocks your core voltages are all over the place and those hot cores never moved past 4200mhz which would indicate a bios setting even with a 92c peak they should have gone over 4200 at some point.
     
    #25
    boinger
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/08 17:38:45 (permalink)
    I am not using liquid metal since I have no IHS. I am just using thermal grizzly tim. I just applied it on die only. 
     
    I am using adaptive voltage of 1.25 with an +75mv offset. As using override just overheats the three hot cores instantly and occt stops. 
     
    I have the multipliers set to 42x for the hot cores. Adaptive voltages allow them to run at a lower voltage for the respective oc. 
    #26
    jollydet
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/08 17:48:37 (permalink)
    If you have no IHS you certainly should be using liquid metal otherwise there is zero point and you will have close to or worse temps than stock.
     
    Whats happening is your die is convex and there is portions of the die not touching the block.  When you use LM this issue is not as significant. Rotate the block and see if you get better temps however i suspect you will not.
     
    At this point you need to use some conducatnaut on the die and the block. Your bios settings are trying to compensate for a poor thermal bond which is not ideal. Also just set Adaptage voltage with no offset or a static voltage.
     
    TJmax will not protect your cpu from degredation when you are pulling 400 watts through it at such high temps and voltages which huge temp discrepancy's across the die. pull the voltages and clocks back until you get the thermal solution sorted as you do not want to degrade your now out out of warranty chip.
     
     
    #27
    boinger
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/08 21:28:58 (permalink)
    I have ordered some more liquid metal and waiting for delivery before testing. I figured Tim would be enough on direct die. 
     
    I am not loading up the chip constantly that was just on stress tests and I have it set to immediately cancel if it exceeds 100C The Tjmax is 102 for this chip I think. 
     
    Anyhow I have lowered the clock to 4500mhz and 1.22v override. 
     
    I really wish that evga had the ability to enter per core voltages. 
    #28
    GGTV-Jon
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/09 10:02:50 (permalink)
    With LM you need to be putting it on the contact area on both the chip and cooler (doesn't matter if you are using the direct frame or with the IHS put it on both) - if you were doing it on just the chip then that is part of the problem. Watch Buildzoid's video I linked above


    #29
    jollydet
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    Re: Delid 7940x or not? 2019/09/09 17:45:45 (permalink)
    also make sure you put some clear nail polish or some liquid electrical tape on the capacitors on the chip so no lm can get on them accidentally
    #30
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