flyinion
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Hoping some PSU gurus might have an opinion on this. Currently running a Seasonic Prime Ultra 1000W Gold that's 3 years old. Current max load I've been able to pull is about 550W with a 5950X and 2080 Super FTW3 all on water with various stress tests like OCCT's PSU test etc. Based on pulling around 250-270W for the 2080 Super, and the spec of the 4090 being 450W it seems like I have plenty of room unless I'm seriously overclocking the card? Obviously nobody knows the actual wattage cards are going to pull yet, so this is based just on the paper specs and such that we know about so far. I should note that 550W also probably includes about 50-60W for two monitors as I'm using the wattage draw from my UPS as a physical reading. The 250-270W is the power draw figure from OCCT for the GPU. I think I'll be fine for a 4080, just not sure for 4090, and I'd really be leaning towards that for the increased CUDA cores to be able to push good FPS to higher res VR headsets in titles like Microsoft Flight Simulator without having to upgrade the GPU for at least 3-4 years.
post edited by flyinion - 2022/09/26 12:02:54
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rjohnson11
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/26 12:28:51
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My recommendation would be for you to obtain an ATX 3.0 approved PSU with the 12 + 4 pin GPU connector if you decide on the RTX 4090. A 1000 watt PSU should be fine, but if you want extreme overclocking bump that up to a 1200 watt or more.
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Cool GTX
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/26 12:29:03
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4090 .. best Guess 550 - 600 Watts under heavy loads if you OC & load your 5950X ... 1000W is not what I would want get a 1600W OuterVision Power Supply Calculator ---> 4090 is ON the list OK so with things pushed it says (edit remove estimate, must have pushed a few settings to 13) 1469 W - I had to guess @ some of your hardware & OCs EDIT: I still believe that your estimated load should = about 80% to a max of 90% of the PSU's RATED watts ... for stability Over Yearss of service
post edited by Cool GTX - 2022/10/05 09:06:06
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flyinion
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/26 13:52:09
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Michapolys
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/26 18:26:34
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Unless the implementation goes easy with the transient response requirements, you will need a new PSU.
NVIDIA says the new 4080 and 4090 aeries go easy compared to the 3080 and 3090, but I would wait for reviews to be sure.
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flyinion
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/26 23:00:27
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Thanks. As much as I want to buy right away I’m starting to think I should wait for the AMD cards to see what they bring considering what I just saw for 7000 series CPU’s vs my 5950X. Even if I still need a new PSU for it, at least I won’t just be jumping without looking. I had planned to try to decide by 4090 launch so if I went for one I could try to get one ASAP and hopefully be able to avoid months of no stock. It would just suck to lose DLSS.
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yaymz
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/27 11:46:50
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I'd agree with the others that probably best to consider a PSU upgrade if you are seriously considering a 4090. It will probably work, but you are going to be right up against those upper load limits of a 1000w PSU, which you really don't want to do. You will lose a good portion of the efficiency rating of your PSU and the wear and tear will increase when running at those upper limits. If the budget allows, aim for that 1600w.
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flyinion
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/27 12:11:26
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yaymz I'd agree with the others that probably best to consider a PSU upgrade if you are seriously considering a 4090. It will probably work, but you are going to be right up against those upper load limits of a 1000w PSU, which you really don't want to do. You will lose a good portion of the efficiency rating of your PSU and the wear and tear will increase when running at those upper limits. If the budget allows, aim for that 1600w.
You think 1300 wouldn't be enough? Just looking for instance if I stuck with the Seasonic Prime series, to get 1600 I have to move from Gold to Platinum minimum, and the 1600 is 430 vs 300 for a 1300.
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donta1979
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/29 23:01:50
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flyinion You think 1300 wouldn't be enough? Just looking for instance if I stuck with the Seasonic Prime series, to get 1600 I have to move from Gold to Platinum minimum, and the 1600 is 430 vs 300 for a 1300.
If you are going to a 4090 I would not do anything less than a 1500-1600w Titanium if you plan on the long term like five years plus. otherwise you can get away with a 1300w just expect while oced and if you happen to hit 90%+ load if you exceed that 1300w your efficiency will drop badly. I know people with the ES hardware, and since the outer vision is showing the new hardware well... If you are going to upgrade your cpu to the latest and greatest, plus a shiny new 4090 and overclock it to what nvidia has shown and if the AIB's actually do anything to the PCB they will clock higher than nvidia's founders. Well, here you go he does do engineering work and rendering so he will see 90-100% load. https://outervision.com/b/GpywKP
My system with just a 1200w that website reports I can use up to 1030-1100w, I go over to say be Quiet and adding my system into it they put me at a max of 1246w while heavily overclocked, and 1176"stock"-1200w "moderately overclocked". Only way I see myself with my config going yeet is I heavy overclock and fire up maya with metal ray and let it have at it. It is making me question my power supply choice if I want it to last oh 8-13 years like my last two psu's I retired with the new upgrades. You do not have to but if you want to wait I would wait for the new PSU's then decide a quality psu now can handle the 4090 no problem. They handled the full 4090 ES chips that have way more cuda cores over the past oh 9 months. Its up to you though, if you already have a high wattage quality unit you will be fine. Just keep overclocking minimal especially if you intend to go with a new shiny cpu for your setup too.
post edited by donta1979 - 2022/09/30 18:57:25
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kougar
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/30 04:20:32
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Wait for some bona fide reviews, see what the sustained load & transient spikes are at. GamersNexus will test for those. NVDIA's official recommendation was 1,000W for a 4080, 1,200 for the 4090.
Have water, will cool.
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/30 17:53:37
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You are all being ridiculous in here. His system will NOT be unstable with a 1300w PSU, hell his system will be fine with his 1000w PSU as is and a 4090. The RTX 4090 will be more or less the same power draw as a RTX 3090 Ti and that runs just fine on a 1000w PSU as it has been in my system for months now. I dunno how you got nearly 1500w Cool GTX on outervision but running his numbers and assuming an overclocked RTX 4090 at 2750Mhz core, +5% power and 1400Mhz memory (22.4Ghz effective) and his CPU also overclocked with average 1.3v also manually changing to 100% TDP from the recommended 90% TDP base setting this is what it returns: Thats with an assumed 360mm AIO, 6 120mm fans, 4 NVMe drives, 2 SATA drives Outervision is very conservative with it's power recommendations as well and it's only recommended a 900W PSU for a system spec'd like his. The ONLY reason I'd consider upgrading his PSU is to get the included 12+4 pin PCIe cable to clean up some of the cable clutter from running the adapter. He has plenty of wattage and a quality PSU like his can handle the transient spikes.
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/30 17:55:20
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kougar Wait for some bona fide reviews, see what the sustained load & transient spikes are at. GamersNexus will test for those. NVDIA's official recommendation was 1,000W for a 4080, 1,200 for the 4090.
Incorrect, Nvidia official recommendations for a RTX 4090 are 850w and for RTX 4080 they recommend 750w.
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Cool GTX
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/30 18:11:52
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my estimate was based on (1) D5 pump & leaning hard on the OC for both CPU & GPU ... 24/7 demand .. did not write down the settings - yes there were extreme Anyways - my 5950X & 3090Ti KP have no trouble breaking through 850 Watts with a light load on the CPU (not a benchmark or gaming) & OC the GPU under heavy load
My CPU is not even OC yet, I also have (1) D5 pump, (1) M.2 drive & (7) 120mm fans So will the Op's project run - on only 1000W PSU, sure if your not going to lean hard on it. The press is talking about possibly needing 600W for just the 4090 ... no idea if that is OC... benchmarks / gaming ... or sub-zero world record runs
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/30 18:34:48
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Cool GTX my estimate was based on (1) D5 pump & leaning hard on the OC ... 24/7 demand my 5950X & 3090Ti KP have no trouble breaking through 850 Watts with a light load (not a benchmark or gaming) on the CPU & OC the GPU
My CPU is not even OC yet, I also have (1) D5 pump, (1) M.2 drive & (7) 120mm fans So will the OP project run on only 1000W PSU, sure if your not going to lean on it. The press is talking about needing 600W for the 4090 ... I doubt that is full tilt OC ... benchmarks / gaming
My system is watercooled with a RTX 3090 Ti and my CPU is clocked at 5.1Ghz all core and I barely break 900w at it's peaks and my CPU pulls more power than any AM4 CPU. There is no way in hell his system is going to pull 1500w even watercooled with a RTX 4090. If it does I'll personally send him a 1600w PSU of his choice. It's just not gonna happen man. There is nothing wrong with over spec'ing a PSU (I also recommend it) but there is a difference between reality and just nonsense. And this thread is clearly veering into the land of nonsense. We aren't at the point where we need 1600w PSUs (not even close actually) for most people, even those that overclock and watercool their systems. Now if he was planning on Ln2 and competing or chasing benchmarks sure the sky is the limit when you go that cold. However that's not the case here. Like I said the only reason I'd be interested in upgrading his PSU is to get one with a native 12+4 pin cable to clean up the mess. His PSU is still well within it's operational life and is a very good unit. No need to add it to a pile of eWaste yet it's still plenty capable.
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Cool GTX
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/30 18:43:34
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my 3090Ti KP under load, has pulled more than 530W in benchmarks & I am just using the stock BIOS & adjusting PX1 settings I might have guessed he was using (2) D5 pumps & would have two loops with lots of fans, like I mentioned I went extreme & did not record my settings .. so I tried to run it again, just to see what I might have done .... I have no idea "how I got the 1400 W number" ...
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/30 18:47:49
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Cool GTX my 3090Ti KP under load, has pulled more than 530W in benchmarks & I am just using the stock BIOS & adjusting PX1 settings I might have guessed he was using (2) D5 pumps & would have two loops with lots of fans, like I mentioned I went extreme & did not record my settings .. so I tried to run it again, just to see what I might have done .... I have no idea "how I got the 1400 W number" ...
Did you perhaps select 2 RTX 4090s? The reality here is Nvidia is recommending a 850w PSU for an entire system and their RTX 4090. They have to add some fluff to that to stay on the safe side, so toss on another 150w to get to a 1000w PSU and he's WELL within reasonable territory even for an overclocked system.
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Cool GTX
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/30 18:49:37
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must have turned all the dials to 13 I would think there would be a Big difference in Watts pulled, between 16 full Cores of the 5950X - VS - the - 8 full cores, of the i7 12700K
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/30 19:01:10
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Cool GTX must have turned all the dials to 13 I would think there would be a Big difference in Watts pulled, between 16 full Cores of the 5950X - VS - the - 8 full cores, of the i7 12700K
You'd be surprised. Intel CPUs historically have pulled more power than AMD CPUs for quite a while now (though that may be changing with AM5). This CPU pulls 215w at stock settings under full load. With my current settings I'm seeing it top 270w at it's peaks. For comparison my previous 12 core Ryzen 5900X would only take 180w at full load with an all core clock of 4.5Ghz. This has to do with clock speed as well as AM4 just can't hit the clock speeds Intel could under normal conditions like air or water cooling. You need sub ambient to really lean on AM4.
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/09/30 21:05:57
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@Donta1979 if you seriously think a system with a RTX 4090 is going to draw 1800w you have lost your damn mind. You can’t possibly believe what you are typing right? Are you seriously implying your “friend” with ES hardware is seeing system draw at 1800w with a RTX 4090?? No way not in this lifetime you are completely full of crap. I don’t care how much “rendering” work your friend does he’s not pulling 1800w on a system with a RTX4090.
Intel i9 14900K ...............................Ryzen 9 7950X3D MSI RTX 4090 Gaming Trio................ASRock Phantom RX 7900 XTX Samsung Odyssey G9.......................PiMax 5K Super/Meta Quest 3 ASUS ROG Strix Z690-F Gaming........ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus WiFi 64GB G.Skill Trident Z5 6800Mhz.......64GB Kingston Fury RGB 6000Mhz MSI MPG A1000G 1000w..................EVGA G3 SuperNova 1000w
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donta1979
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/01 09:01:49
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It’s one of the first ES 4090’s, the full chip has 16k cuda cores more than retail it requires a lot more power than retail and it’s refined version will be the TI. It was not even supposed to go out to AIB’s but if it fits it ships so some of those gpu chips got sent out. There’re also running an ES 13th gen i9 with the stock turbo of 6.2ghz both are overly power hungry with everything else crammed in their case. If there was not an NDA I would let you take it up with them. Calm down crap it’s not me I have been out of the ES game for a number of years. That is not my pic or my link. I know six people with the ES hardware. I just get to witness what they are willing to share & show me. Stop taking stuff so personal. Remember the 3090 TI Kingpin was shown chewing up over 1300w on its own granted the average user will never see that and is unreachable without pots.
post edited by donta1979 - 2022/10/01 09:24:59
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kougar
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/01 11:24:47
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CraptacularOne Incorrect, Nvidia official recommendations for a RTX 4090 are 850w and for RTX 4080 they recommend 750w. You are correct! Not sure how I so badly remembered those numbers from the speclist during the presentation. Cool GTX must have turned all the dials to 13 I would think there would be a Big difference in Watts pulled, between 16 full Cores of the 5950X - VS - the - 8 full cores, of the i7 12700K
Even despite Zen 4's 95c tendency a 7950X still uses less sustained watts than a 12900K in most workloads. And less power overall because it finishes benches faster as well.
Have water, will cool.
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/02 08:28:25
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donta1979 It’s one of the first ES 4090’s, the full chip has 16k cuda cores more than retail it requires a lot more power than retail and it’s refined version will be the TI. It was not even supposed to go out to AIB’s but if it fits it ships so some of those gpu chips got sent out. There’re also running an ES 13th gen i9 with the stock turbo of 6.2ghz both are overly power hungry with everything else crammed in their case. If there was not an NDA I would let you take it up with them. Calm down crap it’s not me I have been out of the ES game for a number of years. That is not my pic or my link. I know six people with the ES hardware. I just get to witness what they are willing to share & show me. Stop taking stuff so personal. Remember the 3090 TI Kingpin was shown chewing up over 1300w on its own granted the average user will never see that and is unreachable without pots.
OK look man, couple things here: 1) I am not taking this personally, but your fear mongering here in stating he "needs" a 1600W PSU is pure nonsense. 2) No, the full AD 102 die in the RTX 4090 does not and never did have 16 thousand MORE cores as you are implying. It has 18,432 cores in a full AD102 die which is 2048 more cores than what is currently enabled. Not the nonsensical 16k more you are claiming. 3) No, ES versions of CPUs are not clocked higher at default than what is released to the public. They are often clocked much lower and not with fully enabled turbo or boost settings. Only the QS (qualifying samples) chips are run at their final clock speeds which is identical to final retail samples. So either you are just making all this garbage up or your "friend" is lying to you BADLY and you are buying it hook line and sinker. At either rate both are nonsense and not called for here. PS: furthermore a 1800w+ load rating on a PC means the PSU itself is drawing close to 2000w at the wall factoring in 90% efficiency of the PSU. The majority of homes here in America are still using 15amp breakers which means they are only rated to deliver 1800w at the sockets. Even if they are more modern and have 20amp breakers that means they are only rated to deliver 2400w at the wall. Please put this nonsense to rest, its not a good look for you man. Just stop already.
post edited by CraptacularOne - 2022/10/02 08:43:41
Intel i9 14900K ...............................Ryzen 9 7950X3D MSI RTX 4090 Gaming Trio................ASRock Phantom RX 7900 XTX Samsung Odyssey G9.......................PiMax 5K Super/Meta Quest 3 ASUS ROG Strix Z690-F Gaming........ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus WiFi 64GB G.Skill Trident Z5 6800Mhz.......64GB Kingston Fury RGB 6000Mhz MSI MPG A1000G 1000w..................EVGA G3 SuperNova 1000w
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dragomirc
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/02 11:20:40
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@OP 1KW PSU is quite enough for 4090(TDP 450W), and overkill for 4080 16GB (TDP 320W), (unless you are hard core over clocker who plans to roast GPU with lunatic overclocking) Guess you know, there is no SLI for 4k cards, so... @Craptacular One Good to have you here, to bring some sense. Since EVGA owner stopped GPU production, sense disappeared on this forum.
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Nozler
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/02 14:28:46
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1300w and hit max efficiency under load. Allowing for any spikes as well. Just my 2cents
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donta1979
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/03 20:22:50
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The ES with 16k more cuda cores that will be the TI is labeled AD102-450-A1 not the AD102 cut variant from the next wave of ES's that went out that will be in retail. The only thing you will find on that chip right now is what the Tech reviewers who have not even seen it, had someone drop them info, or someone who has that ES, or someone that is close enough with those that have those ES's that are fortunate enough to get to see the full chip in action. You are corrector nor do I believe a single card can pull 1700w alone, the psu cables would probably melt by that point. Now the AD102-450-A1 on the Frankenstein PCB's, having more cores. none overclocked 700w-1000w easily. Maybe even as far as 1300w+ if you are brave enough and can keep it cool. It does have a faster more power hungry, higher core count by 16k more cuda cores than the 4090 retail honestly with what I have seen I expect the 4090 TI to be cut down a little bit if they cannot get power/heat under control. Then we saw the i9 13900K ES's at 6.2 so add on an additional say 300-400w, add in all the mechanical drives just for the storage purposes, 4x m.2 SSD's, all the fans 13 plus all higher RPM, the fan and led power controller boxes, The AIO granted it does not use much on the pump even the good ones at 3,300RPM's. I could see with all of that and both ES's someone pulling 1600-1700w. Now you take all that crazy hardware put it into say actually working at 100% load, or your temps are low enough those are the prime times for turbo of a cpu and boost clocks of a GPU to go Yeet full speed ahead. Now on a retail you are correct 100% no way a system is going to pull 1600-1700w, the 13th gen i9 has been scaled back to 5.8ghz, a retail 4090 is cut down as it seems no AIB has done too much different than nvidia besides adding their own cooler. I am sure we will see on release on the pcb's. Yet say someone with that retail stuff does not have a new psu to tell the gpu hey buddy this is all the power I can provide, so adjust your clocks accordingly. Someone who actually listens to the bs nvidia puts out that is made for their clocked cards pcb/power delivery of the founders cards only to those who copy those designs. Well the cpu and the gpu go full Turbo/boost on an 850-1000w psu, if that psu fails during the transient spikes it's not going to end well at some point. if you go past the wattage its rated for a quality psu it will still work? Yet its efficiency goes down the toilet at some point bad stuff will happen. Some will exceed nvidia's recommendation if they are say overclocking, have an AIB card, and put a lot of stuff in their build. If they are not going to buy a brand new standard psu. The best idea is to go with a 1500-1600w quality psu that handles maximum transient spikes. The PSU will maybe see 70-85% of its maximum power output even utilized. Like look at nvidia's page for their 3090/3090 TI their card will only pull 450w... most AIB's and especially EVGA's 3090 TI pulls a nice 500-530w stock, and 600w overclocked. You cannot always go by what nvidia says. Because most of the time it's irrelevant on what the other AIB's do with their stuff, to someone who does more than just gaming.
post edited by donta1979 - 2022/10/04 08:42:22
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/04 09:55:44
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You can't possibly believe Nvidia disabled HALF their AD102 die for retail right? You can't be that naive can you??? No company would waste the resources and material on a die then to only disable half of the damn thing. Silicon wafers are expensive to produce. They want to harvest as many dies off a wafer as possible. They don't do this to then disable half of what they harvested. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell they made the AD102 with 32k cores then disabled half of them. That makes literally no sense. You do realize you are the only person making these ridiculous claims right? The full AD102 die will have just over 18K cores and will be featured in the Ti or Titan variant. No they don't "scale back" ES CPUs either. As I said ES CPUs are not run at their final clock speeds and depending on the stepping of the revision often do not even have fully enabled boost tables and full speed memory support. They are for "engineering" not for overclocking and making someone's wet dreams. It's only the later QS chips that will be run at final clock speed and boost tables. These are what are sent to board vendors for final compatibility validation (hence Qualifying Sample) and are also what are often sent to review outlets for press coverage. Could someone have overclocked a ES CPU? Sure, that's been done many times but they are not run at those speeds internally by default for development. That's not how it works and never has. Your "friends" are jerking you around and making you look like a fool. Put this to rest now. Please?
post edited by CraptacularOne - 2022/10/04 22:01:21
Intel i9 14900K ...............................Ryzen 9 7950X3D MSI RTX 4090 Gaming Trio................ASRock Phantom RX 7900 XTX Samsung Odyssey G9.......................PiMax 5K Super/Meta Quest 3 ASUS ROG Strix Z690-F Gaming........ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus WiFi 64GB G.Skill Trident Z5 6800Mhz.......64GB Kingston Fury RGB 6000Mhz MSI MPG A1000G 1000w..................EVGA G3 SuperNova 1000w
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Cool GTX
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/04 10:09:51
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hello .... the ES debate has kind of gotten way off topic It might make an interesting thread of its own; but not here
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CraptacularOne
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/04 10:15:54
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Agreed, I'm done trying to talk some sanity into him. Moving on........
Intel i9 14900K ...............................Ryzen 9 7950X3D MSI RTX 4090 Gaming Trio................ASRock Phantom RX 7900 XTX Samsung Odyssey G9.......................PiMax 5K Super/Meta Quest 3 ASUS ROG Strix Z690-F Gaming........ASUS TUF Gaming X670E Plus WiFi 64GB G.Skill Trident Z5 6800Mhz.......64GB Kingston Fury RGB 6000Mhz MSI MPG A1000G 1000w..................EVGA G3 SuperNova 1000w
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dragomirc
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/04 17:54:42
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One of the biggest questions surrounding Nvidia's GeForce RTX 40-series (Ada Lovelace) graphics cards is whether you need to upgrade your power supply. Nvidia has uploaded a new FAQ (opens in new tab) that sheds some light on Ada's power requirements for future adopters. Consumers won't need to upgrade their power supplies if the capacity meets Nvidia's wattage recommendations. - GeForce RTX 4080 12GB (285W) requires a 700W power supply while the
- GeForce RTX 4080 16GB (320W) will need a 750W unit.
- GeForce RTX 4090 has a 450W TGP, meaning you need at least a 850W unit.
So much for 1300W or 1600W PSU recommendation. LOL
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GotNoRice
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Re: Debating if I need a new PSU for 4080/4090
2022/10/04 22:54:02
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I am going to roll the dice and try a 4090 with my existing 850w unit (only about a year old). Running a 5900X CPU. My only concern is that I've seen some mixed messages regarding the power adapter that will come with the 4090. With my 850w PSU, I have 3 PCI-E power cables, each with two 8-pin PCIE connectors on them for 6 connectors total. The adapter that comes with the 4090 has four 8-pin PCIE inputs, but supposedly only 3 are required. So do I plug in only three (one for each cable) and leave the 4th unplugged, or do I use the 2nd connector from one of the three cables for the 4th 8-pin input on the adapter?
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