Xavier Zepherious
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Today, however, Samsung and other DRAM manufacturers are facing another legal fight in the U.S., and it comes courtesy of the law firm Hagens Berman. The class action lawsuit was filed today in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California and alleges that Samsung, Micron and Hynix conspired to artificially limit the supply of DRAM chips in an effort to keep prices high. As a result, device manufacturers that rely on DRAM chips had to pay inflated prices, and those costs were of course passed on to you, the consumer. This has especially been true as higher DRAM costs have also resulted in inflated prices for graphics cards that PC gamers have been clamoring for, and paying dearly for recently, versus cryptocurrency miners. Read more at https://hothardware.com/n...on#WB3dPkExzjXkp22O.99 https://hothardware.com/n...-action-suit-collusionhttps://www.hardocp.com/n...ollusion_price_gouging
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bdary
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 11:27:29
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I think some of us had a feeling this was coming... If memory serves, pardon the pun, we've seen this before. EDIT: Guess so, just now read that in one of the articles...
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rjohnson11
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 11:47:58
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I'm surprised it took this long to happen.
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bdary
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 11:50:05
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rjohnson11 I'm surprised it took this long to happen.
+1. Got that right...
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 12:12:23
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Is there definitive proof? I haven’t had a chance to read the articles yet.
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 13:18:36
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According to Hagens Berman, the above trio of companies together command 96 percent of the DRAM market. The companies' actions resulted in the price of 4GB of DRAM jumping 130 percent during the class period (July 1, 2016 through February 1, 2018). Interestingly enough, the trio also experienced more than a doubling in revenue between Q1 2016 and Q3 2017. How convenient… The lawsuit outlines the behavior, stating: Defendants each made public statements affirming their commitment to the common plan to curtail supply, and to not compete for each other’s market share by supply expansion. For example, Defendants informed the other Defendants through public statements, that they would keep total wafer capacity flat in order to constrain DRAM supply growth, they would only grow DRAM supply between 15-20% in 2017, even as DRAM demand grew 20-25%, and that they would refrain from taking each other’s market share.
It is also alleged that even though prices for DRAM more than doubled during the class period, the costs for Samsung, Micron and Hynix associated with producing the memory chips did not increase. Likewise, there were no major changes in process technology to justify the drastic increase in prices. Read more at https://hothardware.com/n...on#J5zBX0fHwWJeuEAv.99 If the Hagens Berman name sounds familiar, it’s because it was the firm responsible for securing the aforementioned $300 million settlement against Samsung and Hynix in another case
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2018/04/28 13:22:50
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aka_STEVE_b
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 13:24:40
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..because the fine never exceeds their profits - companies keep doing it, over & over
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XrayMan
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 14:44:28
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Price gouging the consumer isn't right, and definitely something should be done.
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 15:17:56
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Completely did not see this coming! (GASP!) About dam time!
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 16:53:10
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GTXJackBauer Completely did not see this coming! (GASP!) About dam time!
+1 Me neither! That explains a thing or two.
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ty_ger07
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 19:21:43
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No way! (said no one ever) Saw this coming. They are just repeating history.
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Brad_Hawthorne
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 21:15:50
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Wonder if this sort of move would improve the accessibility to GPUs?
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Bruno747
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 21:59:56
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There are a couple areas in this and some other industries that need similar lawsuits.
Problem is as others have said the fines never exceed the profit. For this to hurt government would need to inflict some severe hurt. I don't know what exactly that would be maybe some here have good ideas.
Perhaps detail the increased profit during the time the collusion took place and issue the fine for that plus 25%.
Maybe make the fine a base amount given the market value for the company on a sliding scale. Company worth a billion. Base fine 10% of company valuation or illegal profit plus 30% whichever is larger.
Can't really break them up into smaller groups when the major fabs are singular buildings.
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 22:43:15
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Brad_Hawthorne Wonder if this sort of move would improve the accessibility to GPUs?
Actually, I'm wondering if the GPU mfger's were doing the same thing during the whole high demand craze. Bruno747 There are a couple areas in this and some other industries that need similar lawsuits.
Problem is as others have said the fines never exceed the profit. For this to hurt government would need to inflict some severe hurt. I don't know what exactly that would be maybe some here have good ideas.
Perhaps detail the increased profit during the time the collusion took place and issue the fine for that plus 25%.
Maybe make the fine a base amount given the market value for the company on a sliding scale. Company worth a billion. Base fine 10% of company valuation or illegal profit plus 30% whichever is larger.
Can't really break them up into smaller groups when the major fabs are singular buildings.
Agree. The only problem is, the added cost from punishments will find their way back to the consumer.
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wmmills
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/28 23:03:56
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This is totally stupid, does not give them any incentive to stop and def doesn't help us. They raised the prices to pay for the last settlement, DUH!, so that means after this one gets paid out its going to happen again. On and on we go?!?!? Just stupid. There has to be a better way.
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09973
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/29 00:08:52
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XrayMan Price gouging the consumer isn't right, and definitely something should be done.
OPEC has been doing this with oil for a long time now
As long as your popular enough, you can get away with anything.
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rjohnson11
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/29 01:16:46
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I'll be following this lawsuit with great interest but the lawsuit only affects customers in the USA.
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Bruno747
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/29 07:16:30
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rjohnson11 I'll be following this lawsuit with great interest but the lawsuit only affects customers in the USA.
True. I wonder how big the duffle bag of cash the investigators in China each got to look the other way. As for those saying this will just get passed back on to the consumer. Which would you prefer. That prices bump 10% from what they were a year an a half ago. Or keep seeing 130% percent rise every two years because we have just decided it's not worth it to the end consumer to prosecute price fixing and collusion.
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fearpoint
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/29 15:07:41
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Steve from Gamers Nexus has been talking about the comments he's been receiving memory industry people. Basically they admit to gouging and are loving the results of it meaning they have no plans to stop doing it.
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Nereus
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/29 15:11:13
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Likely a slap on the hand and a fine that may appear large, but relative to profits it won't deter them at all from pulling this crap again. Maybe they'll boot a few C-levels as a show of contrition (false contrition, obviously) but that'll be it. I'm more surprised some other large well-heeled corp hasn't decided to move into this field given the demand and the profit margins - that would be the one thing that could upset this collusion (providing the new player didn't join them, lol).
post edited by Nereus - 2018/04/29 15:14:02
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/29 15:30:43
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Bruno747
As for those saying this will just get passed back on to the consumer. Which would you prefer. That prices bump 10% from what they were a year an a half ago. Or keep seeing 130% percent rise every two years because we have just decided it's not worth it to the end consumer to prosecute price fixing and collusion.
Well, I was just stating the obvious. One negative thing, isn't better then the other negative. It's a lose, lose all around for the consumer in the end. This is why things are 'different' when business is done overseas. If they tried pulling that crap off in the states, there would be a world of hurt and they all know that. These same tactics I feel could have been going on not only with RAM, but with screens and GPUs. The prices on those particular areas, have exploded. I feel there really isn't much competition overseas with just the same ol manufacturers selling their goods to companies that just rebrand their stuff. ffs, the gaming chairs look almost all the same but just a rebrand. lol
post edited by GTXJackBauer - 2018/04/29 15:35:30
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Brad_Hawthorne
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/29 18:53:15
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GTXJackBauer
Brad_Hawthorne Wonder if this sort of move would improve the accessibility to GPUs?
Actually, I'm wondering if the GPU mfger's were doing the same thing during the whole high demand craze.
Manufacturer Logic: It's only collusion and price fixing if they get caught.
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Bruno747
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/29 19:33:20
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Brad_Hawthorne Manufacturer Logic: It's only collusion and price fixing if they get caught.
So much truth in that statement.
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veganfanatic
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/29 20:20:59
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no surprise that prices are artificially high, i track them all the time and when price rot is not present i know there is a problem looks at video card prices while you are at it
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/30 03:24:41
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veganfanatic no surprise that prices are artificially high, i track them all the time and when price rot is not present i know there is a problem looks at video card prices while you are at it
I've been tracking component pricing overall since I got back into PC building in 2009. I can assure you that some of the prices aren't your average adjustment from inflation and to be fair, the lack of competitiveness plays a big role as well.
post edited by GTXJackBauer - 2018/04/30 03:27:15
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asmodyus
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/30 14:10:28
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wmmills This is totally stupid, does not give them any incentive to stop and def doesn't help us. They raised the prices to pay for the last settlement, DUH!, so that means after this one gets paid out its going to happen again. On and on we go?!?!? Just stupid. There has to be a better way.
Jail time for the CEO and other members of management. Fines that will actually put a company to there knees I mean if they can sue a person for copyright infringement and ask millions of dollars to a person that makes less than 100k they should be able to ask for billions to a company that makes that much just saying. Bu thank again this is another countries company maybe trade sanctions against the company and country.
post edited by asmodyus - 2018/04/30 14:12:52
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Cool GTX
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/04/30 14:57:33
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Fines get paid with no admission of wrong doing by Corporations, so no one goes to jail
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/05/01 00:12:40
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I'm gonna copy and paste what somebody wrote on FB to a similar article about this whole debacle. He makes a great point as this will just be a 'splash' in the bucket. This EXACT SAME price-fixing collusion between Samsung and Hynix led up to the companies being fined in 2005. Several hundred million dollars in fines are small amounts compared to how much these companies earned in profits due to price-gouging over the years.
Read this for déjà vu:
https://www.justice.gov/.../press_releases/2005/212002.htm
If they are fined again this time, the fine needs to include extra "repeat offender" punitive damages, and be at least $1-billion for Samsung's role as the ringleader (they were only fined $300-million in 2005), and at least $400-million for Hynix repeat offense (Hynix paid $185-million in 2005). Otherwise, $300-million in fines is nothing for Samsung who earned more than $50-billion in profits in 2017.
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panzlock
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/05/01 07:02:35
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I had little doubt this was transpiring again. I am also confident AMD, Nvidia and others are using the mining craze as an excuse to gouge. The excuse being propaganda. Supply shortage being propaganda. I'm 100% sure Intel just released an Optane memory drive for $1600, so, enough said! I'm also pretty sure one of the calipers on my car is seized. I believe my stocks are down. I'm fairly certain my dog has a hemorrhoid. I'm under the impression my child is the devil. I'm starting to wonder how long I will be able to watch the same channel on the tele because I can't find the remote.
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Bruno747
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Re: DRAM Manufacturers Slapped with Lawsuit over Supply Collusion, Price Gouging
2018/05/01 10:03:49
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I wonder who we contact to make our thoughts known that if there are fines here they need to be larger than the illegally obtained profits.
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