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Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers?

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jinihammerer
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2019/01/19 12:12:59 (permalink)
 I understand it from a troubleshooting point its easier to pin point issues and what not, but I don't feel it should be implied as mandatory or matter of factly stated that one will not work with the other with out some form of explanation as to why. Especially when its not true.
 
My EVGA Nu Audio card does not care one way or the other if I have the on board audio enabled or not or if i have the Nvidia HDMI drivers installed. All cards function properly in analog, digital or optical as you direct it to in the audio sources in Windows. The drivers for each piece of hardware all function for their individual devices with out issue.
 
I use the HDMI sound when I am watching movies, I used the optical with headsets and analog with ear buds. Some times i play with only one ear so i can hear if the cats are killing each other... 
 
I am asking because if there is some negative I would like to know what it is.


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    GGTV-Jon
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/19 12:54:00 (permalink)
    As you stated maybe for troubleshooting issues. Perhaps some people have their OS installed dorked up and have issues
     
    I too run both the onboard sound and the nvidia GPU audio. Onboard is for my headset for Discord. I switch the main sounds between my monitor (HDMI) and the headset without any issues depending on where I want the game sounds or if I am watching a movie late at night


    #2
    Cool GTX
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/19 12:58:22 (permalink)
    Resource conflicts are Known to happen when multiple sound drivers are installed.  Best practice is to only load one set of drivers for Any hardware.
     
    Windows may try to assign the task to more than one set of drivers

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    jinihammerer
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/19 13:46:11 (permalink)
    Are you talking about irq conflicts?


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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/19 14:05:33 (permalink)
    any type of assigned resource ...
     
    If Windows tries to use both driver concurrently .... crash
     

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    jinihammerer
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/19 14:47:44 (permalink)
    So it's just best practice thing?

    Simply to avoid possible issues and not a carved in stone must be thing from what I uderstand.


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    jinihammerer
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/19 15:17:42 (permalink)
    Not sure why you are pointing at an IO. each device is considered an IO. Network cards, video cards, com ports, hard drive controllers, sound cards, etc.

    Nvm you where pointing out all three.
    post edited by jinihammerer - 2019/01/19 15:41:33


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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/19 16:24:26 (permalink)
    Kernel memory is the memory used by the Windows kernel. It includes memory used by core components of Windows along with any device drivers.
     
    IMO this is a Less is More situation.
     
    Hey if it works, why fix it.  Maybe your pushing the last tiny bit of OC from the RIG and it crashes.
     
    Even outdated audio driver tend to be dodgy & cause issues

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    jll544
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/19 16:25:01 (permalink)
    jinihammerer
    So it's just best practice thing?



    Yes, it's best practice, but you can run into real issues... My motherboard has Realtek onboard, so it has the Realtek drivers plus whatever customization ASUS added. I installed a sound card recently and was trying to do A/B comparisons between the two.
     
    I happened to have my new soundcard active as playback device and plugged my headphones into the Realtek's headphone jack, resulting in an immediate BSOD from the Realtek driver. It's supposed to pop-up a message asking what kind of device was just plugged in, but it seems that Realtek didn't take into account what might happen if a non-Realtek was the active sound device.
     
    The two sound cards otherwise co-exist peacefully, but I have to be careful to make sure the Realtek device is selected before I plug anything into its jacks.
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/19 16:28:58 (permalink)
    Realtek drivers have a history of issues with other drivers
     
    @jinihammerer
    Why sometimes there are issues - best explained by these:
    Using the Kernel Stack

    (excerpt)
    The size of the kernel-mode stack is limited to approximately three pages. Therefore, when passing data to internal routines, drivers cannot pass large amounts of data on the kernel stack.
    To avoid running out of kernel-mode stack space, use the following design guidelines:
    • Avoid making deeply nested calls from one internal driver routine to another, if each routine passes data on the kernel stack.
    • Make sure that you limit the number of recursive calls that can occur, if you design a driver that has a recursive routine.
     
    Running out of kernel stack space causes a fatal system error. Therefore, it is better for a driver to allocate system-space memory than to run out of kernel stack space. However, nonpaged pool is also a limited system resource.
     
    Allocating System-Space Memory
    (excerpt)

    Drivers can use system-allocated space within their device extensions as global storage areas for device-specific information. Drivers can use only the kernel stack to pass small amounts of data to their internal routines. Some drivers have to allocate additional, larger amounts of system-space memory, typically for I/O buffers.


    To allocate I/O buffer space, the best memory allocation routines to use are MmAllocateNonCachedMemory, MmAllocateContiguousMemorySpecifyCache, AllocateCommonBuffer (if the driver's device uses bus-master DMA or a system DMA controller's auto-initialize mode), or ExAllocatePoolWithTag.


    Nonpaged pool typically becomes fragmented as the system runs, so a driver's DriverEntry routine should call these routines to set up any long-term I/O buffers the driver needs. Each of these routines, except ExAllocatePoolWithTag, allocates memory that is aligned on a processor-specific boundary (determined by the processor's data-cache-line size) to provide best performance.


    Drivers should allocate I/O buffers as economically as possible, because nonpaged pool memory is a limited system resource. Typically, a driver should avoid calling these support routines repeatedly to request allocations of less than PAGE_SIZE because each allocation that is less than PAGE_SIZE also comes with a pool header that is used to internally manage the allocation. 

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    jinihammerer
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/19 16:54:56 (permalink)
    Ok. So now another question. With my setup obviously I don't need to keep the realtek enabled or the drivers installed.

    Assumption 1. You dont want the Nvida hdmi drivers installed because the motherboards soundcard driver supports HDMI audio.

    Assumption 2. Removing the realtek drivers will remove hdmi audio support, installing the nvida hd driver restores it.

    Removing the onboard audio and installing the new card and nvidia drivers for hdmi audio.

    Now would this still be considered an issue since you removed all like drivers and hardware?
    post edited by jinihammerer - 2019/01/19 17:00:21


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    EyeDeeNo
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/20 09:22:50 (permalink)
    I have been using both Realtek High Definition Audio (Edit: always keep up to date with the latest, v10.0.17763.1 dated 9/14/2018) paired with Dolby Digital Plus and NVIDIA High Definition Audio without a single issue for two years. 
     
    Edit2: Wait is this thread made primarily about PCIe audio cards in question of driver conflicts?
     
    Edit3: Fixed spelling of Dobly to Dolby
    post edited by EyeDeeNo - 2019/01/20 10:50:42

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    #12
    jinihammerer
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/20 10:28:26 (permalink)
    No its simply questioning the reasoning people say you cant have more than one audio device installed at one time. IE you can have Realtek High Definition Audio but you should not have Nvidia's. 
     
    I know there are proprietary software conflicts that will cause crashes, like too many fingers in the pot trying to control different aspects of sound. But you don't need the audio apps for the sound to function unless you need to run some form of EQ.
     
    But I have not heard of too many active devices or drivers causing issues since pre-windows 2000.
     
    I mean I can build a mining box with 10 video cards, how is that different from multiple audio cards.


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    MSim
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/21 00:51:10 (permalink)
    You can use two sound cards at once, but you can't play the same audio source on both sound cards at the same time.
     
     
     
     


     
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    ErinW
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/21 01:05:04 (permalink)
    MSim
    You can use two sound cards at once, but you can't play the same audio source on both sound cards at the same time.
     

     
    Well, not without some voodoo. 
     
    I have set up a machine with 5 sound cards, and it worked fine. They were all the same brand, little USB things that used the RealTek chips. Made it easy, because only one driver (yay).
     
    I can't recall what software I used (JRiver?), but you could assign mulitple outputs or "zones" with it. It would play to one or more cards at the same time. Worked perfectly, as the machine was installed for running audio to museum galleries, and the audio zones could change depending on the configuration of the space. 
     
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    ChaobSiroc
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/21 09:35:54 (permalink)
    Manufacturer's say it to prevent excess troubleshooting requests for the few that would have driver conflicts. 

    I've run 3 different sound devices / cards on a single system with equipment which says to uninstall the others... they work fine together. Windows 10 makes them play nice better than older versions of windows imo. 
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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/28 10:25:22 (permalink)
    https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2915012
    EVGA_JacobF
    This issue is caused by the SPDIF/LineIn issue that you mentioned:
     
    1. Uninstall all audio drivers, reboot.
    2. Install NU Audio drivers, reboot.
     
    Most of the time this should clear up the issue, there will be a driver update shortly however to automate this.


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    #17
    usa423
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    Re: Can someone explain to me why you should remove all other audio drivers? 2019/01/31 00:09:42 (permalink)
    I agree with you OP. Now.....back in the day (like Windows 95, 98, ME, XP) I remember all too well the trouble of things conflicting (and playing the card shuffle hoping to avoid IRQ conflicts while pulling your hair out). But since like Windows 7 and up that does not seem to be a problem anymore these days. What seems to be important to Windows now is only what is set as playback and what is set as recording in the taskbar. It seems that it ignores anything else. But I'm not a programmer nor did I make Windows, so I don't know what if any conflicts for a sound card still exist to this day.  But I can understand this from a trouble shooting point-of-view. Where its simply less margin for error to get rid of any audio generating device you don't want as your main and its corresponding drivers.
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