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Hot!Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark?

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wwxww
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/20 07:39:40 (permalink)
The RAM or the board seems to be loosing up, If that makes any sense.
I was able to run 4000 at first. Then ran 4200 taking little steps to now 4400 at stock timings.
I kept trying 4500. Not close. It took a good bit of time posting.
 
https://imgur.com/5GjC8J0
 



Edit: embedded image by Cool GTX
post edited by Cool GTX - 2019/02/20 07:59:53
#31
Cool GTX
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/20 07:57:03 (permalink)
BCLK ?

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wwxww
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/20 08:30:13 (permalink)
100.00
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EVGATech_LeeM
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/20 09:54:25 (permalink)
Sorry guys, I haven't had the time to get the QVL up, but I can confirm that the Z390 DARK is compatible with F4-4600C18D-16GTZR.
#34
Cool GTX
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/20 10:29:41 (permalink)
did you Set timing & Voltage in the BIOS ?
 
 
Is that the RAM your using ?    F4-4600C18D-16GTZR
 
18-19-19-39
 
1.35V
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
F4-4600C18D-16GTZR different Timing on this link ?

18-22-22-42
1.45v
 

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#35
wwxww
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/20 10:58:41 (permalink)
No, I am using these F4-4000C17D-16GTRS.  Royale con queso. Royal 4000
17-17-17-37-48
target: DIMM 1.460V
           SA     1.360XV
        VCCIO   1.310V
 
Ill go look to be sure at the target numbers. I am running at 5.0. No problems when I turn it up to 5.4.
edit: Ok, ACTUAL Targets are :  DIMM 1.455v
                                                       SA    1.355v
                                                    VCCIO  1.305v
post edited by wwxww - 2019/02/20 11:05:23

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#36
Cool GTX
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/20 11:50:04 (permalink)
Your RAM is Not the 4600 that G.Skill sells. 

I'm not sure it will ever clock that fast.
 
 
G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 4000 MHz CL17 Review
 
I do not see them listed "as recommended" for EVGA Z390 on GSkill 
 
Test @ 18-19-19-39
 
edit for clarity
 
 
 
 
post edited by Cool GTX - 2019/02/21 06:22:14

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#37
wwxww
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/20 12:06:06 (permalink)
I didn't see any listed for this board, before and after I received it. Glad to see it's up.
 
So, you think may be I might see gains testing these @18-19-19-39?
 
edit: Not trying to clock 4600. I saw this G.Skill thread and joined in. I stated a couple times what RAM I was running.   Sorry, I posted in the wrong thread or for any hijacking or any Clock blocking. Just trying to contribute. I did see what you did. was just hoping you were not.
 
edit: Oh, I am not ThreadStarter...I am not him
In the image above that you embedded has the info you seek
post edited by wwxww - 2019/02/20 12:31:56
#38
Cool GTX
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/21 06:28:53 (permalink)
Oops I edited my post above, jumping through too many post too fast ........... (your not the OP, just on top of page 2 )

Testing & more testing is the name of the game when Pushing any Rig
 
The somewhat bigger issue is when the MB BIOS changes things even when set to Auto - Better to Lock in manual changes

If you push your BCLK - most of the system is also changed - like PCIe lane speed.  Why do I mention this ? because some MB will play with you BCLK speed even if you don't.  There are MB & RAM combinations that if you turn XMP On to get the advertised RAM speeds - the MB changes the BCLK - without advertising that this has happened   Why I always say: Manually set your RAM per the sticker / Mfg specs
 
Performance is a total picture of the entire PC --->  Slower MHz & Tighter timing can actually be Faster in benchmarks
 
If your RAM is running @ advertised settings & your PC is stable --- Great, in daily use it really does not matter much as long as it is stable
 
 

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#39
ataya
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/21 09:21:29 (permalink)
hi again, I managed to work my 4600 royal rams at 4000 mhz 15-15-15-38 T2 stable in realbench for 2 hours test. Still no 4100 posting what ever I do. Before 4000 was not possible. Now 4100 is not possible.
 
I played with write read subtimings below the list. 8 I changed totally. Now not remembering them, but read in some ram forum somebody's advice to someone. 4 of them make same as my timings 15. 4 of them make 8. Man speaks samsung b-die likes 8 in this parameter. But not helps more than this. And my board suddenly posts at 4000 mhz. To make this stable I make sa/io, 1.35/1.3 and dram voltage 1.55. Less than these voltages give instability.
 
Next week, I' ll take out my cpu for lapping more and use custom copper plate around the die for not to touch socket sides (like a gasket) to increase the cpu mounting pressure. Because the die protector thickness and shape makes it impossible to increase mounting pressure after some degree. It' s very thin but this way I believe I will be able to push the cpu inside the socket until the waterblock touches the socket sides. It stay like 0.2 - 0.3 mm more inside the socket. 
After dante'afk's post about direct die cooled cpu not overclocking good, I' ll try to increase the pressure to see if cpu will perform better. I read somewhere that mounting pressure may change resistance in power delivery. 
#40
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/02/21 23:03:39 (permalink)
wwxww
No, I am using these F4-4000C17D-16GTRS.  Royale con queso. Royal 4000
17-17-17-37-48
target: DIMM 1.460V
           SA     1.360XV
        VCCIO   1.310V
 
Ill go look to be sure at the target numbers. I am running at 5.0. No problems when I turn it up to 5.4.
edit: Ok, ACTUAL Targets are :  DIMM 1.455v
                                                       SA    1.355v
                                                    VCCIO  1.305v


I'll try to check tomorrow to see if they're on the list.
#41
mollet
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/03/01 09:39:27 (permalink)
I have 2 x F4-4600C18D-16GTRG Gold Royals, i cant get them to even boot on the MB.
As soon as i plug them in and start, Mainboard starts one time, then switches off. If i try to start again, it says 00.
Of 20 trys (power off / on on powersupply) ill be able to boot in bios, i never got more out as 3800 of them.
Even with VCC and SA set, no chance.
 
Ill tried alot of RAMS, never seen this behavior before.
Its a top golden 9900k, running 5.5 Ghz easy on normal Waterloop. I can use other RAMs up to 4400 without a problem.
So i guess this board needs a fresh Bios with memory optimizations...
#42
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/03/01 09:40:56 (permalink)
mollet
I have 2 x F4-4600C18D-16GTRG Gold Royals, i cant get them to even boot on the MB.
As soon as i plug them in and start, Mainboard starts one time, then switches off. If i try to start again, it says 00.
Of 20 trys (power off / on on powersupply) ill be able to boot in bios, i never got more out as 3800 of them.
Even with VCC and SA set, no chance.
 
Ill tried alot of RAMS, never seen this behavior before.
Its a top golden 9900k, running 5.5 Ghz easy on normal Waterloop. I can use other RAMs up to 4400 without a problem.
So i guess this board needs a fresh Bios with memory optimizations...


I'll send this over to the team to look at.  If you have the CPU at stock settings, are you able to boot with the memory?
#43
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/03/01 09:52:45 (permalink)
mollet
I have 2 x F4-4600C18D-16GTRG Gold Royals, i cant get them to even boot on the MB.
As soon as i plug them in and start, Mainboard starts one time, then switches off. If i try to start again, it says 00.
Of 20 trys (power off / on on powersupply) ill be able to boot in bios, i never got more out as 3800 of them.
Even with VCC and SA set, no chance.
 
Ill tried alot of RAMS, never seen this behavior before.
Its a top golden 9900k, running 5.5 Ghz easy on normal Waterloop. I can use other RAMs up to 4400 without a problem.
So i guess this board needs a fresh Bios with memory optimizations...


Will it run with the CPU @ stock clocks ?
 
 

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#44
mollet
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/03/01 15:49:26 (permalink)
nope, it doesent work when i switch to bios 2 which i never used, all is on default there.
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ataya
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/03/02 04:28:49 (permalink)
hi everybody, I totally solved my ram issue. Now my board overclocks 4600 royal rams very easy. I was not getting my rams work at more than 3900 mhz first no matter what I do, then someday I started getting 4000 easily. Without much changes my rams started trining at 4000 mhz. This was not possible before. I got suspicious about cpu mounting pressure maybe affecting ram overclock. Maybe after a couple of weeks mounting pressure changed. I read posts about direct die cooling and ram overclocking problems. So I got rid of my cpu frame which I used for direct die and used 0.3 mm copper plates on the cpu for even pressure on corners. My die already lapped to 0.4 mm. Electrical tape 0.1, plates 0.3. Glued these plates on corners of my cpu which I covered with electric tape before. Sanded all together for perfect line up and xmp1 posted in 1st try at 4600 mhz. This way I was able to push the cpu inside the socket a little bit more (frame thickness more). I attach the picture of my cpu inside the socket with copper plates.

Attached Image(s)

#46
rjohnson11
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/03/02 06:29:11 (permalink)
ataya
hi everybody, I totally solved my ram issue. Now my board overclocks 4600 royal rams very easy. I was not getting my rams work at more than 3900 mhz first no matter what I do, then someday I started getting 4000 easily. Without much changes my rams started trining at 4000 mhz. This was not possible before. I got suspicious about cpu mounting pressure maybe affecting ram overclock. Maybe after a couple of weeks mounting pressure changed. I read posts about direct die cooling and ram overclocking problems. So I got rid of my cpu frame which I used for direct die and used 0.3 mm copper plates on the cpu for even pressure on corners. My die already lapped to 0.4 mm. Electrical tape 0.1, plates 0.3. Glued these plates on corners of my cpu which I covered with electric tape before. Sanded all together for perfect line up and xmp1 posted in 1st try at 4600 mhz. This way I was able to push the cpu inside the socket a little bit more (frame thickness more). I attach the picture of my cpu inside the socket with copper plates.


Thanks for the info

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#47
Cool GTX
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/03/09 06:03:52 (permalink)
Use the New BIOS just released
https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2931111
 
 
New Updates for Z390 Motherboards today:
 
BIOS 1.04 (E399 Dark) / 1.05 (E397 FTW)
  • Add OC Profile (Luumi and K|NGP|N)*
  • Improves CPU and memory OC compatibility
  • Adds supports OC for Intel KF series
  • Adds supports Intel H10 Optane memory*
  • Adds supports for debug port orientation*
  • Fixes various other minor bugs and fixes
*Z390 DARK (E399) only

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#48
mollet
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/03/10 06:04:59 (permalink)
Tried to put some electrical tape on the edge today, 4200 works now, never did before. Seems like there is really a pressure problem with direct die.
post edited by mollet - 2019/03/10 13:15:50
#49
ataya
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/03/10 11:38:26 (permalink)
mollet
Tried to put some electrical tape on the edge today, 4200 works now, never did before. Seems like there is really a pressure problem with direct die.

I have the same ram in silver. Xmp1 at 4600 mhz stable at 5.0 ghz. And the board sets sa/io 1.45/1.4. Cpu at 5.1, 5.2 ghz 4600 mhz ram is not stable even if I give 1.5 sa/io. My cpu is not good, can not do 5.3 ghz even at 1.5 vcore. So I find out after many tries; cpu at 5.1 ghz 1.45 Vcore, -%25 droop, sa/io 1.4/1.4, ram at 4500 mhz 19-19-19-39 1.55 volts. These settings look full stable for all tests. I have 2x360 xe radiators push pull with 1080ti at 1.2v. Water degree around 27-28, cpu maxes around 75. I ordered another xe 360 to put in loop next week for future ready to sli 2x2080ti or another combo. How are your voltages and temps? CPU at 5.0 ghz, 4600 mhz ram runs at 1.35 vcore. CPU at 5.1 ghz stable with 1.45 vcore, 4500 mhz and loosened timings. For 0.1 ghz needs 0.1 volts. Funny. And do you test occt small and large data? Realbench pass easier, If rams are not stable, occt very fast finds, and I also saw that memtest gives errors at test 9 when rams are not stable. So after I overclock in bios, I directly boot with memtest in usb and fast forward to test 9 to look for errors. If no errors, I continue with longer tests in windows. If you can run rams at 4500 19-19-19-39, I would very much to learn your cpu vcore at 5.1 ghz.
#50
ataya
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/03/10 11:45:13 (permalink)
mollet
Tried to put some electrical tape on the edge today, 4200 works now, never did before. Seems like there is really a pressure problem with direct die.

Also you need to lap the water block to give even pressure on corners of the cpu. All blocks are convex at some degree. And also you need (very carefully) trim corners of the cpu socket for more pressure on the cpu.  


#51
danteafk
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/04/11 09:06:03 (permalink)
You had any luck running them at 4600? 

i9 9900k 5.2ghz - evga z390 dark - corsair ax1200i16GB g.skill tridentZ RGB 4600 CL18 - RTX 2080Ti  2160/8000960 -NVMe's only - LianLi O11 - ASUS ROG PG279Q Gsync @ 165hz - 2x Qnix2710 @ 120hz - klipsch promedia 2.1
#52
ataya
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/04/11 14:56:38 (permalink)
Yes I was running them at 4600 xmp, but to be 24/7 stable w/o any whea errors I found out 4500 better for me. 4600 also pass but gives whea errors, 4500 not. 4500 with xmp timings looks like my imc limit. I also played with timings but tighter timings effect my stability in blender. Sa/io 1.4/1.4, Vdimm 1.55
#53
xaviplisskin
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/04/12 01:06:41 (permalink)
ataya
hi everybody, I totally solved my ram issue. Now my board overclocks 4600 royal rams very easy. I was not getting my rams work at more than 3900 mhz first no matter what I do, then someday I started getting 4000 easily. Without much changes my rams started trining at 4000 mhz. This was not possible before. I got suspicious about cpu mounting pressure maybe affecting ram overclock. Maybe after a couple of weeks mounting pressure changed. I read posts about direct die cooling and ram overclocking problems. So I got rid of my cpu frame which I used for direct die and used 0.3 mm copper plates on the cpu for even pressure on corners. My die already lapped to 0.4 mm. Electrical tape 0.1, plates 0.3. Glued these plates on corners of my cpu which I covered with electric tape before. Sanded all together for perfect line up and xmp1 posted in 1st try at 4600 mhz. This way I was able to push the cpu inside the socket a little bit more (frame thickness more). I attach the picture of my cpu inside the socket with copper plates.





Hi, do you use this tape with a direct die frame?
 
I'm using the der8auer oc frame for 9900k and have some issues to set stable my ram.. maybe the frame is the problem without enough pressure.
#54
ataya
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/04/12 04:25:04 (permalink)
xaviplisskin
ataya
hi everybody, I totally solved my ram issue. Now my board overclocks 4600 royal rams very easy. I was not getting my rams work at more than 3900 mhz first no matter what I do, then someday I started getting 4000 easily. Without much changes my rams started trining at 4000 mhz. This was not possible before. I got suspicious about cpu mounting pressure maybe affecting ram overclock. Maybe after a couple of weeks mounting pressure changed. I read posts about direct die cooling and ram overclocking problems. So I got rid of my cpu frame which I used for direct die and used 0.3 mm copper plates on the cpu for even pressure on corners. My die already lapped to 0.4 mm. Electrical tape 0.1, plates 0.3. Glued these plates on corners of my cpu which I covered with electric tape before. Sanded all together for perfect line up and xmp1 posted in 1st try at 4600 mhz. This way I was able to push the cpu inside the socket a little bit more (frame thickness more). I attach the picture of my cpu inside the socket with copper plates.





Hi, do you use this tape with a direct die frame?
 
I'm using the der8auer oc frame for 9900k and have some issues to set stable my ram.. maybe the frame is the problem without enough pressure.


No any frame. Just tape on the pcb around the die. And stick 4 small copper plates on corners (you can use anything, maybe some sort of rubber gasket) same height as the cpu die. I used copper plates for easily sand down together with the die. This way water block gives even pressure on corners and the die. (but you need your water block also lapped)
#55
xaviplisskin
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/04/12 04:36:22 (permalink)
ataya
xaviplisskin
ataya
hi everybody, I totally solved my ram issue. Now my board overclocks 4600 royal rams very easy. I was not getting my rams work at more than 3900 mhz first no matter what I do, then someday I started getting 4000 easily. Without much changes my rams started trining at 4000 mhz. This was not possible before. I got suspicious about cpu mounting pressure maybe affecting ram overclock. Maybe after a couple of weeks mounting pressure changed. I read posts about direct die cooling and ram overclocking problems. So I got rid of my cpu frame which I used for direct die and used 0.3 mm copper plates on the cpu for even pressure on corners. My die already lapped to 0.4 mm. Electrical tape 0.1, plates 0.3. Glued these plates on corners of my cpu which I covered with electric tape before. Sanded all together for perfect line up and xmp1 posted in 1st try at 4600 mhz. This way I was able to push the cpu inside the socket a little bit more (frame thickness more). I attach the picture of my cpu inside the socket with copper plates.





Hi, do you use this tape with a direct die frame?
 
I'm using the der8auer oc frame for 9900k and have some issues to set stable my ram.. maybe the frame is the problem without enough pressure.


No any frame. Just tape on the pcb around the die. And stick 4 small copper plates on corners (you can use anything, maybe some sort of rubber gasket) same height as the cpu die. I used copper plates for easily sand down together with the die. This way water block gives even pressure on corners and the die. (but you need your water block also lapped)




ok, I understand.. I'm using this ; h ttps://www.overclockers.co.uk/der8auer-intel-9th-gen-oc-frame-hs-008-dr.html
 
maybe the pressure is not very very fine, I'll try to change the waterblock pressure. I wish this fixes the ram issues. Thanks!!
#56
ataya
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/04/12 04:44:16 (permalink)
xaviplisskin
ataya
xaviplisskin
ataya
hi everybody, I totally solved my ram issue. Now my board overclocks 4600 royal rams very easy. I was not getting my rams work at more than 3900 mhz first no matter what I do, then someday I started getting 4000 easily. Without much changes my rams started trining at 4000 mhz. This was not possible before. I got suspicious about cpu mounting pressure maybe affecting ram overclock. Maybe after a couple of weeks mounting pressure changed. I read posts about direct die cooling and ram overclocking problems. So I got rid of my cpu frame which I used for direct die and used 0.3 mm copper plates on the cpu for even pressure on corners. My die already lapped to 0.4 mm. Electrical tape 0.1, plates 0.3. Glued these plates on corners of my cpu which I covered with electric tape before. Sanded all together for perfect line up and xmp1 posted in 1st try at 4600 mhz. This way I was able to push the cpu inside the socket a little bit more (frame thickness more). I attach the picture of my cpu inside the socket with copper plates.





Hi, do you use this tape with a direct die frame?
 
I'm using the der8auer oc frame for 9900k and have some issues to set stable my ram.. maybe the frame is the problem without enough pressure.


No any frame. Just tape on the pcb around the die. And stick 4 small copper plates on corners (you can use anything, maybe some sort of rubber gasket) same height as the cpu die. I used copper plates for easily sand down together with the die. This way water block gives even pressure on corners and the die. (but you need your water block also lapped)




ok, I understand.. I'm using this ; h ttps://www.overclockers.co.uk/der8auer-intel-9th-gen-oc-frame-hs-008-dr.html
 
maybe the pressure is not very very fine, I'll try to change the waterblock pressure. I wish this fixes the ram issues. Thanks!!


I also trimmed the socket corners. This also increases the mounting pressure. When I mount the block and tighten the screws to the end, there is no gap between my block and the cpu socket. All the pcb and the die pushed inside the socket. 
#57
danteafk
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/04/12 05:00:13 (permalink)
can you show screenshots? no idea what you mean.
 
I have that too, RAM oc is not possible if I use the direct die frame. only stock clock

i9 9900k 5.2ghz - evga z390 dark - corsair ax1200i16GB g.skill tridentZ RGB 4600 CL18 - RTX 2080Ti  2160/8000960 -NVMe's only - LianLi O11 - ASUS ROG PG279Q Gsync @ 165hz - 2x Qnix2710 @ 120hz - klipsch promedia 2.1
#58
ataya
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/04/12 05:09:54 (permalink)
I uploaded a picture of my cpu inside the socket before. 
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ataya
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Re: Can anyone assist with using G.SKILL 4600MHz and the Z390 Dark? 2019/04/12 05:21:47 (permalink)
1. trim 4 corners of the cpu socket to make edges of the socket even, so that you can gain more mounting pressure (dangerous procedure and probably you loose your warranty, but I did, you can see in the picture)
2. put electrical tape on the pcb around the die
3. stick 0.5 or 0.3 mm copper plates on the corners of the cpu pcb. I used 0.3 mm and the tape is 0.1 mm. So it makes 0.4 mm totally
4. sand the die together with copper plates to make them all even
5. lap the bottom of the water block for to get rid of the convexity
6. try the block on the socket to see if the block can go all the way down to touch the edges of the socket
7. put the cpu inside the socket, apply LM and mount the water block carefully on the cpu
8. tighten all screws to the limit that you can not turn anymore
 
post edited by ataya - 2019/04/12 05:26:29
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