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Bottleneck with 1060?

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deecibel
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2018/04/25 12:03:17 (permalink)
hey guys, first, sorry for my bad english.

so i bought a gtx 1060 6gb and im a bit dissapointed..

in most games, the gpu turn between 50-70% , not more, while my cpu is about 90-95%.

in benchmark, the 1060 turn in 100%.

thats very annoying because in games like fortnite or LoL i cant properly stand the 144fps in low settings.

my cpu is the intel core i5-4440 3.1 ghz ( 3.3 in boost) , i got 8 gb ram ddr3 and a 1 TB SSHD.

do u think its a bottleneck from my cpu? its a bit strange cause i dont feel a good upgrade IG between my last gtx 750 and my 1060.

my userbenchmark is nice, all my components turns above average.

I already uninstall and install nvidia drivers
+ a stranger thing is that often my fps drop top 90 while my cpu is also only about 80%
thanks
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    GGTV-Jon
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/25 12:06:23 (permalink)
    Besides fortnight what other games and at what resolution?
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    GGTV-Jon
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/25 12:09:08 (permalink)
    Make sure the integrated graphics on the CPU is disabled in the BIOS
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/25 12:31:48 (permalink)
    Based on the information you provided, yes, it sounds like your CPU is bottlenecking your GPU. You should be able to easily overclock the CPU by at least a few hundred MHz to help improve performance.

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    #4
    deecibel
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/25 12:35:32 (permalink)
    League of legends and fortnite only at the moment. (1920x1080). If intel graphics is enabled, it consume the cpu power? Even if I'm sure I'm using my 1060.

    I can overclock my cpu? Even if it's not a K?
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    deecibel
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/25 12:40:57 (permalink)
    The thing is that my cpu doesn't run at 100%. Sometimes I see it under 80% while my fps goes 90. In majority, I'm hitting 144 fps but it go to 80-90 when they are a lot of things. Was pretty sure to have a bottleneck when I bought the 1060 but in my opinion it shouldnt be that much
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    deecibel
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/25 12:46:17 (permalink)
    If I uncap my fps in-game, then my cpu ans my gpu is supposed to, if possible, going to 100% twice, right?
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/25 14:04:01 (permalink)
    Ability to use the CPU is highly dependent on the game and what ia going on in the game at any one time. Some operations are impossible to span more than 1 thread and some operations can span nearly an infinite number of threads. A game may max out your CPU at 25% CPU usage (single thread limited), 50% CPU usage (dual thread limited), 75% CPU usage (triple thread limited), or nearly 100% CPU usage (nearly perfect efficiency). If the game is only able to use 3 threads for the current operations/conditions, 80% CPU usage may be its max (3 threads @ 75% total usage plus 5% operating system usage).

    It is behaving as if the CPU is bottlenecking the GPU. 100% CPU usage is not necessary before a bottleneck occurs. Whether or not the game is able to use all the CPU cores, making the cores faster will improve CPU performance.

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    deecibel
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/25 14:14:59 (permalink)
    OK thx ! It's more clear for me now! So here my cpu is probably not good enough to keep my framerate that high?
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    demon09
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/25 19:41:06 (permalink)
    welcome to trying to get high fps in games the higher you go in frame the more likely you will end up cpu bottle necked an i7 4790k may help alleviate some of your bottle neck but high fps is always hard on the cpu. if your motherboard supports doing a blck overclock and you know how to do them you might be able to overclock your i5 and see if it helps some
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    somethingc00l
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/26 17:14:28 (permalink)
    There is a really easy way to see if you have a CPU bottleneck or GPU bottleneck. Lower the in game resolution very low, like 800x600 or 640x480 or however low it will go. If your FPS goes up with the lower resolution you were GPU limited, if FPS stays the same you are CPU limited.
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    bassfisher6522
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/29 09:37:05 (permalink)
    What I'm seeing is the 144htz setting being part of the issue....which is pushing the limits of the 1060. Either change htz setting so the card can handle it or get a better GPU.
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    demon09
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/29 10:36:52 (permalink)
    bassfisher6522
    What I'm seeing is the 144htz setting being part of the issue....which is pushing the limits of the 1060. Either change htz setting so the card can handle it or get a better GPU.
    in this at least his example it's 100% CPU bound as his gpu is not even being used all the way so a stronger gpu wouldn't help much
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    mark_thaddeus
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/30 18:36:02 (permalink)
    Playing at 1080p will always leave CPU bound. This means you either have to OC your CPU as high as you can or lower some settings to help boost your FPS. Only playing at 1440p or higher are you GPU bound.

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    Hoggle
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/30 18:55:24 (permalink)
    mark_thaddeus
    Playing at 1080p will always leave CPU bound. This means you either have to OC your CPU as high as you can or lower some settings to help boost your FPS. Only playing at 1440p or higher are you GPU bound.




    This is mostly true but would also depend on the settings being used in the game. Max settings can really push a graphics card even at 1080p since things like anti aliasing can render the picture 4X larger and then combine the super sampled image into the final 1080p frame to smooth out the picture. As said before the best way would be lowering every setting to the lowest available and seeing how the game plays and what the frame rate increase is. If it's the CPU the frame rate should stay the same while if it's GPU limited the reduction in what to process would make the game much faster.

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    mark_thaddeus
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/04/30 19:58:14 (permalink)
    Hoggle
    This is mostly true but would also depend on the settings being used in the game. Max settings can really push a graphics card even at 1080p since things like anti aliasing can render the picture 4X larger and then combine the super sampled image into the final 1080p frame to smooth out the picture. As said before the best way would be lowering every setting to the lowest available and seeing how the game plays and what the frame rate increase is. If it's the CPU the frame rate should stay the same while if it's GPU limited the reduction in what to process would make the game much faster.



    Not true, maybe for 1 game or benchmark out there (like ashes of the singularity). For almost all games you are CPU limited. Check out the testing done by Hardware Unboxed (Techspot) below
     
    Article 
    Video Review
     
    Gamers Nexus has also done reviews and shows that almost every game out there played at 1080p shows you are CPU limited.
    post edited by mark_thaddeus - 2018/04/30 20:01:33

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    6502kid
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/01 04:25:20 (permalink)
    This can vary a lot depending upon the game.
     
    Since I setup my new box with a EVGA 1060 6gb SC card as primary GPU, I have been pretty much only playing 2
    pretty old games with it.   UT99 and Doom 3.    UT99 using 'newer' opengl renderer.  Doom 3  using its
    default opengl.   (Playing them in 1440p on a Dell 2716DG 144hz Gsynch monitor...)
     
    UT99 hammers the CPU a LOT more than Doom3.   Vid card is not stressed much by either so no bottleneck there.
    By a lot, I mean a 20*c difference in cpu temps while playing.   Which is quite a bit.
     
    No doubt the newer games are all stressing the cpu quite a bit more than either of my antique games, but it is
    something to consider.
    post edited by 6502kid - 2018/05/01 04:27:43


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    somethingc00l
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/01 11:21:56 (permalink)
    mark_thaddeus
    Not true, maybe for 1 game or benchmark out there (like ashes of the singularity). For almost all games you are CPU limited. Check out the testing done by Hardware Unboxed (Techspot) below
     
    Article 

    LOL that article is saying the exact opposite of what you are. 
     
    "Overclocked, the 2600K averaged 140fps in Battlefield 1 and a GTX 1070 is good for around 115fps with the 8700K, so for the most part you should be okay. In Call of Duty WWII, the GTX 1070 offers 133fps on average with an 8700K while the overclocked 2600K managed 134fps with the 1080 Ti, so you're certainly on the edge with the 2600K and GTX 1070 combo."
     
    They are literally saying a 7 year old CPU is not limiting with a 1070 in modern games (and OP only has a 1060). Not sure how you misunderstood so much.
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/01 12:31:11 (permalink)
    somethingc00l
    mark_thaddeus
    Not true, maybe for 1 game or benchmark out there (like ashes of the singularity). For almost all games you are CPU limited. Check out the testing done by Hardware Unboxed (Techspot) below
     
    Article 

    LOL that article is saying the exact opposite of what you are. 
     
    "Overclocked, the 2600K averaged 140fps in Battlefield 1 and a GTX 1070 is good for around 115fps with the 8700K, so for the most part you should be okay. In Call of Duty WWII, the GTX 1070 offers 133fps on average with an 8700K while the overclocked 2600K managed 134fps with the 1080 Ti, so you're certainly on the edge with the 2600K and GTX 1070 combo."
     
    They are literally saying a 7 year old CPU is not limiting with a 1070 in modern games (and OP only has a 1060). Not sure how you misunderstood so much.

    Regardless, I am quite sure that the OP's system is exhibiting a CPU bottleneck situation. The symptoms are very indicative. Also note that the 2600K is an i7 CPU which has higher performance in most applications compared to the OP's i5-4440 CPU. The 2600K may be old, but it is good. If they had to overclock a 2600K to prevent it from creating a measurable bottleneck paired with a GTX 1070, I think it is likely that the OP would need to overclock his 4440 to prevent it from creating a measurable bottleneck when paired with a GTX 1060.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2018/05/01 12:34:19

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    somethingc00l
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/01 16:49:30 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    Regardless, I am quite sure that the OP's system is exhibiting a CPU bottleneck situation. The symptoms are very indicative. Also note that the 2600K is an i7 CPU which has higher performance in most applications compared to the OP's i5-4440 CPU. The 2600K may be old, but it is good. If they had to overclock a 2600K to prevent it from creating a measurable bottleneck paired with a GTX 1070, I think it is likely that the OP would need to overclock his 4440 to prevent it from creating a measurable bottleneck when paired with a GTX 1060.

    I'm not as confident as you are I guess. It's on the edge in a lot of cases I think (which is indicative of a good CPU/GPU pairing IMHO).
    For example, BF1, probably the best example of a modern game that is very demanding of both CPU and GPU and well optimized, pulls 122 FPS with an i5 6400 https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2673-battlefield-1-cpu-benchmark-dx11-vs-dx12-i5-i7-fx/page-2
    The i5 6400 is ~ 5% faster than the i5 4440: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-6400-vs-Intel-Core-i5-4440/3512vs1993
    A 1060 puts down 95 FPS in BF1 1080p Ultra: https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2652-battlefield-1-graphics-card-benchmark-dx11-vs-dx12
     
    So at least for BF1, OP would likely not be CPU limited. I'm sure there are examples either way, depending on settings and game. And I'm not suggesting no overclock (bring on the overclocks!) just that there could be something else going on (e.g. background process hitting the CPU causing FPS dips) and the easiest way to test is to drop resolution and settings in game to see what happens in a for sure CPU bound scenario.
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/01 18:55:08 (permalink)
    Good point. I guess that I usually take for granted proper PC software setup and conservative software usage.

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    mark_thaddeus
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/02 16:31:58 (permalink)
    somethingc00l
     
    LOL that article is saying the exact opposite of what you are. 
     
    "Overclocked, the 2600K averaged 140fps in Battlefield 1 and a GTX 1070 is good for around 115fps with the 8700K, so for the most part you should be okay. In Call of Duty WWII, the GTX 1070 offers 133fps on average with an 8700K while the overclocked 2600K managed 134fps with the 1080 Ti, so you're certainly on the edge with the 2600K and GTX 1070 combo."
     
    They are literally saying a 7 year old CPU is not limiting with a 1070 in modern games (and OP only has a 1060). Not sure how you misunderstood so much.




    So you don't get it either, if you look at ALL the CPU used with 1 card the 1080 Ti in all those graphs, you see minimums and average fps differ from best to worst meaning there is a CPU bottleneck at 1080p period. Compare that to the 1440p results and you see fps minimums and averages more or less be within 5% of each other means there is no CPU bottleneck (save for the really old and slow CPUs that can't push the GPU). Considering that he has an i5-4440 which is definitely weaker than an OC'd 2700k @4.8Ghz, he is being bottle-necked by his CPU. Now take into account the first post where the OP states that he is seeing 90-95% CPU usage and lower usage in his GPU means he is CPU limited.
    post edited by mark_thaddeus - 2018/05/02 16:37:16

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    somethingc00l
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/03 14:27:32 (permalink)
    mark_thaddeus
    So you don't get it either

    Nah, I get it perfectly, it seems you are not paying any attention to the details here and have your mind made up already.
     
    mark_thaddeus
    1 card the 1080 Ti in all those graphs, you see minimums and average fps differ from best to worst meaning there is a CPU bottleneck at 1080p period. 

    You say it yourself here, that's with a 1080ti. OP has a 1060. A 1080ti is well over double the speed of a 1060. The FPS in that chart with an overclocked 8700k is not over double the FPS of the non overclocked 2600k, so even a stock 2600k would not bottleneck a 1060 using the chart you like so much.
     
    If you are going to say a CPU is limiting a GPU, you have to be comparing the CPU to the actual GPU being used, not the top of the line GPU available.
    #23
    mark_thaddeus
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/03 17:37:16 (permalink)
    somethingc00l
    mark_thaddeus
    So you don't get it either

    Nah, I get it perfectly, it seems you are not paying any attention to the details here and have your mind made up already.
     
    mark_thaddeus
    1 card the 1080 Ti in all those graphs, you see minimums and average fps differ from best to worst meaning there is a CPU bottleneck at 1080p period. 

    You say it yourself here, that's with a 1080ti. OP has a 1060. A 1080ti is well over double the speed of a 1060. The FPS in that chart with an overclocked 8700k is not over double the FPS of the non overclocked 2600k, so even a stock 2600k would not bottleneck a 1060 using the chart you like so much
     
    If you are going to say a CPU is limiting a GPU, you have to be comparing the CPU to the actual GPU being used, not the top of the line GPU available.




    The details you say? So when the OP says his CPU is showing 90~95% usage and the GPU usage is 50-70% what does that tell you? You can go to every tech site and they will tell you the same thing, at 1080p with his settings and with his setup he is being CPU limited.
     
    You do know that a 1060 is as fast (more or less) as a GTX 980 right and I doubt that these cards are not enough or would be an issue or be a bottleneck playing at 1080p. Also the reason I showed you that particular graph is to show that CPU does make a big difference when gaming in 1080p and by using a 1080 Ti it eliminates any issue with the GPU being a bottleneck.
     
    Heck even the link you gave the almighty Steve (GN) says - "For 1080p gaming with Ultra settings, .... The RX 480 (~$260) and GTX 1060 (~$265) are both more than capable of performing at 1080p, with the RX 480 a few frames ahead in Dx12, though with worse stutters, and the GTX 1060 ahead in Dx11. Both these ~$260 cards also scale well to 1440p and are fully capable of 1440p at Ultra settings, where we see framerates north of 60FPS for each vendor."
     
    Doesn't that mean it's more than enough for playing at 1080p at least for BF1 and more than enough for Fortnight as the OP mentioned (he said he was getting 144 fps at low settings and doesn't want to play using low settings)?
     
    Which brings me to my original point, his CPU is limiting his GTX 1060 when playing games at 1080p and he needs to upgrade it or at least OC it as high as he can to limit his CPU bottleneck.
     
    Here's the almighty Steve testing the GTX 1060 - https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2518-nvidia-gtx-1060-review-and-benchmark-vs-rx-480/page-5
     
    If he's not getting fps close to those tests (since that test is using a CPU that won't bottleneck the GTX 1060) it means his CPU needs to be OC'd or upgraded.
    post edited by mark_thaddeus - 2018/05/03 18:04:45

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    EyeDeeNo
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/04 08:01:05 (permalink)
    So putting aside CPU and GPU models also FPS it is more difficult to render at 1080 than 1.4 times of 1080 at 1440?

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    #25
    ty_ger07
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/04 15:04:26 (permalink)
    EyeDeeNo
    So putting aside CPU and GPU models also FPS it is more difficult to render at 1080 than 1.4 times of 1080 at 1440?

    No. 1440p is more difficult to render than 1080p. Bottlenecking isn't specifically about difficulty. Bottlenecking is about balance and determining which component is slower than the other. At 1080p, it's easy for the CPU to be the limiting factor while the GPU is more than capable of higher performance but unable to achieve it due to lack of demand supplied to it.

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    Sajin
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/04 15:13:21 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    EyeDeeNo
    So putting aside CPU and GPU models also FPS it is more difficult to render at 1080 than 1.4 times of 1080 at 1440?

    No. 1440p is more difficult to render than 1080p. Bottlenecking isn't specifically about difficulty. Bottlenecking is about balance and determining which component is slower than the other. At 1080p, it's easy for the CPU to be the limiting factor while the GPU is more than capable of higher performance but unable to achieve it due to lack of demand supplied to it.

    +1
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    mark_thaddeus
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/05 06:12:48 (permalink)
    EyeDeeNo
    So putting aside CPU and GPU models also FPS it is more difficult to render at 1080 than 1.4 times of 1080 at 1440?


    ty_ger07 is correct! Basically the higher the resolution of the content you render the more difficult it is to do so.

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    #28
    somethingc00l
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/09 16:39:42 (permalink)
    mark_thaddeus
    So when the OP says his CPU is showing 90~95% usage and the GPU usage is 50-70% what does that tell you? 


    Nothing really, he doesn't detail settings or games that that happens at, which is why I originally suggest lowering his resolution to see what the CPU is capable of.
     
    mark_thaddeus
    You can go to every tech site and they will tell you the same thing, at 1080p with his settings and with his setup he is being CPU limited.
     

    Considering the chart you posted doesn't support that conclusion at all, as I have shown, not sure what you're on about. I also showed how BF1 would certainly not be CPU limited with his setup. Feel free to post some evidence to the contrary, rather than just restating your opinion. Data would actually change my mind, not your assurances I'm wrong.
     
    mark_thaddeus
    Doesn't that mean it's more than enough for playing at 1080p at least for BF1 and more than enough for Fortnight as the OP mentioned (he said he was getting 144 fps at low settings and doesn't want to play using low settings)?

    I mean, I literally posted Steve's CPU and GPU results for BF1, showing the 1060 getting 95 FPS and a very similar CPU getting 122 FPS. That is actual data, not you taking a sentence out of context and trying to twist it to support what you think should be.
     
    As to Fortnite (I don't think OP actually said what you say he did, broken english, but let's pretend he did), you are making my point. If he gets 144 FPS with low settings and that FPS goes down when he raises the settings, that a GPU bottleneck for sure. 
     
    mark_thaddeus
    Here's the almighty Steve testing the GTX 1060 - https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2518-nvidia-gtx-1060-review-and-benchmark-vs-rx-480/page-5

    And here he is with another CPU benchmark besides BF1, WD2: https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2808-watch-dogs-2-cpu-benchmark-thread-intensive-game/page-2
    A 2500k at stock speeds get 58 FPS.
    And the GPU review: https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2700-watch-dogs-2-gpu-benchmark-11-video-cards
    1060 gets 45 FPS ultra, 60 FPS Very High.
     
    So GPU bottlenecked @ Ultra, barely CPU bottlenecked (2 FPS) at Very High.
     
    So I hope you can see you are just plain wrong by making a blanket statement that he is CPU limited at 1080p, it very much depends on the game and settings as I have said and shown. You want to make a game GPU bottlenecked just turn on 8x AA, problem solved.
     
    As multiple people have already told you this I doubt this post will change your mind, but maybe you learn something.
    post edited by somethingc00l - 2018/05/09 16:45:30
    #29
    mark_thaddeus
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    Re: Bottleneck with 1060? 2018/05/09 18:19:01 (permalink)
    You're the first person to tell me that seeing a CPU usage at 90-95% and GPU at 50-70% (in most games) means nothing and I'll leave it at that.
     
    You also said --- "If he gets 144 FPS with low settings and that FPS goes down when he raises the settings, that a GPU bottleneck for sure."
     
    Of course when you raise settings the FPS for the game will lower, even if you use a 1080ti and you do the same thing and lower settings you would get higher FPS at 1080p. Vice versa, if I increase the settings (from low to ultra) using the 1080ti the FPS would decrease. So you're saying the 1080ti is GPU bottlenecking at 1080p because when you put all settings low in a game the FPS for the 1080ti is way high and when I put it in ultra settings the FPS are lower? Ok then...
     
    You also mention the 2500k at 58 fps with WD2... that's at stock settings. What you didn't mention is when the 2500k is OC'd to 4.5 Ghz it hits 67 fps using the same GPU. That basically shows that the CPU is limiting the GPU performance, hence CPU limited/bottleneck. Consider that his chip is slower than the stock 2500k it means that he is CPU limited for that example you gave, because when he OC's it he will get more FPS just like the 2500k in the example you gave.
     
    Also, the blanket statement I made is that for almost all games (notice I said almost all and not all) you are CPU limited at 1080p (specially when playing multi-player games).
     
    I do keep learning and I do understand that the higher you go in resolution when gaming the less CPU bottleneck you will have. I've been building PCs since the Windows 3.1 and the reason I went 1440p is because CPUs most often than not will almost always bottleneck or limit your GPU performance at 1080p, unless you always buy the most expensive and fastest chips every year so it's able to push your GPU to the max, which isn't the most cost effective solution out there for most people.

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    #30
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