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MSim
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2017/09/03 13:21:44 (permalink)
A nurse at university hospital in salt lake city, was arrested after explaining to police that she couldn't draw a blood sample from an unconscious person. A salt lake city police detective asked for a blood sample. After explaining to the detective that the police needed a warrant, consent from the unconscious patient or that the patient needed to be under arrest before the blood sample could be drawn, she was arrested.
 

 
The police were chasing someone, that person drove head on into a semi truck and died. The truck driver is in a coma. Guess the police are trying to find anything that could protect the city from a lawsuit.
 
youtube "Cache County, Utah, man drives car into oncoming traffic during police chase" if you want to see the wreck. I don't know if that is safe to post on here or not.
 
 
 
 
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    Chaos_21
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 14:40:54 (permalink)
    The police officer was so far out of place that he needs to be fired. That was ridiculous.

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    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 14:55:58 (permalink)
    I am curious what the Police Officers last few days on the force will be like. Hopefully he gets fired. I usually back the blue when it is warranted, but nothing in the nurse video is warranted.

    If he was trying to get a blood sample from a dead guy, why didn't he ask the coroner? Why is it her job to break the law, and why didn't the cop get a warrant.
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    whiskers54
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 15:07:32 (permalink)
    There were 2 officers placed on administrative leave pending an internal review. An apology was issued to the nurse. She'll be suing.
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    FattysGoneWild
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 15:31:13 (permalink)
    Abuse of power plain and simple. That cop should be arrested for assault on a civilian. But since he is above the law as they all seem to be no justice will be served. It just amazes me how stuff like this is on video and these bastards get off the hook every time. 

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    MSim
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 15:39:45 (permalink)
    Scarlet-Tech
    I am curious what the Police Officers last few days on the force will be like. Hopefully he gets fired. I usually back the blue when it is warranted, but nothing in the nurse video is warranted.

    If he was trying to get a blood sample from a dead guy, why didn't he ask the coroner? Why is it her job to break the law, and why didn't the cop get a warrant.



    I find it weird they wanted a blood sample from the victim. After watching the wreck footage, not much the truck driver could of done to avoid a person with death wish coming right at him.
     
     
     
     
     

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    dave7798801
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 16:18:17 (permalink)
    They were probably thinking the truck driver might sue the police for causing the accident by engaging in an unsafe car chase, if the truck driver happened to be DUI it would affect his case.
     
    The cop that arrested her was out of line but it did come out that he contacted his Watch Commander and he told him to arrest her.

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    kaninja
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 18:55:01 (permalink)
    dave7798801
     
    The cop that arrested her was out of line but it did come out that he contacted his Watch Commander and he told him to arrest her.


    Yes, the watch commander was using law from before 2007. In their training these guys have it drilled into them the 3 things they need for blood, patient consent, a warrant, or patient under arrest. They knew what they were doing was wrong. They were doing it to possibly give them some leverage in a civil case against them from the accident. That cop's ego obviously just couldn't handle a female who knew what she was talking about telling him "no". This is similar to firemen telling cops "no" to moving their engines that are placed strategically to protect emergency crew working at an accident scene, then the cop arrests the firemen.

    This cop and his commander need to go. Hire people with common sense to replace them.

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    kram36
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 19:25:22 (permalink)
    The officer that did this and any officer that allowed this to happen should not be in law enforcement. The office that arrested her flew off the handle soon as the guy on the phone told him he was making a big mistake. It's like he snapped when he got told no. Glad to hear he and his partner were both removed from duty. She needs to sue this police department.

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    Dukman
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 19:52:33 (permalink)
    Hang on, hang on, hang on.  
     
    This is local for me and causing quite a stir, which is exactly what the media wants.  And of course, your seeing the story they want you to see and reacting the way they want you to react.
     
    First and foremost.  The cop had every right to collect the blood sample.  He didn't need a warrant, he didn't need the person in question to be conscious. He had every legal right (and qualifications) to collect the blood sample.  But what happened is he went in with a lousy attitude and a lot of ego and ran into the nurse that also had a big ego as well.   I'll betcha the news didn't tell you that there was a huge pissing/ego contest before the cop played his butthead card?    All that aside, that cop handled it totally and completely wrong.   SLCPD could slap the nurse with an obstruction charge, but it's not worth yet another PR black eye.
     
    Don't jump to conclusions.  The media is playing their little "fan the flames" game.
     
    That's Salt Lake City PD.  They can't go 6 months without one of their officers causing a PR cluster.
    post edited by Dukman - 2017/09/03 19:55:58

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    kram36
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 20:27:54 (permalink)
    Bull, the hospital administrator also said they could not draw the blood unless 1 of the 3 conditions were met and instructed her not to do it. When the officer got told no, he snapped. People like him have no business on the police force. Both officers have been pulled from duty and apology has been given to the nurse. If the police officer was right, they would not have done that.

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    Dukman
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 20:33:58 (permalink)
    kram36
    Bull, the hospital administrator also said they could not draw the blood unless 1 of the 3 conditions were met and instructed her not to do it. When the officer got told no, he snapped. People like him have no business on the police force. Both officers have been pulled from duty and apology has been given to the nurse. If the police officer was right, they would not have done that.




    Look up the local laws. The cop had every right to draw the blood.   The administrator doesn't have the right or ability to change state law.  
     
    The cop handled it (very) badly caused that whole situation to go sideways.     

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    bill1024
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 20:42:27 (permalink)
    Dukman
    kram36
    Bull, the hospital administrator also said they could not draw the blood unless 1 of the 3 conditions were met and instructed her not to do it. When the officer got told no, he snapped. People like him have no business on the police force. Both officers have been pulled from duty and apology has been given to the nurse. If the police officer was right, they would not have done that.




    Look up the local laws. The cop had every right to draw the blood.   The administrator doesn't have the right or ability to change state law.  
     
    The cop handled it (very) badly caused that whole situation to go sideways.     


    The officer did handle it badly.
    She handled it badly too. Why do people think they can resist arrest.
    Trying to back away screaming, yelling and blocking the officers hands. Not the right thing to do.
    Could end up getting you killed.
     

     
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    kram36
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 20:44:20 (permalink)
    Dukman
    kram36
    Bull, the hospital administrator also said they could not draw the blood unless 1 of the 3 conditions were met and instructed her not to do it. When the officer got told no, he snapped. People like him have no business on the police force. Both officers have been pulled from duty and apology has been given to the nurse. If the police officer was right, they would not have done that.




    Look up the local laws. The cop had every right to draw the blood.   The administrator doesn't have the right or ability to change state law.  
     
    The cop handled it (very) badly caused that whole situation to go sideways.     


    Show me the law. The nurse had it in her hands on what they needed in order to draw the blood. Why did the officers get pulled from duty and apology made to the nurse if she was wrong?

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    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 20:51:40 (permalink)
    Dukman
    Hang on, hang on, hang on.  
     
    This is local for me and causing quite a stir, which is exactly what the media wants.  And of course, your seeing the story they want you to see and reacting the way they want you to react.
     
    First and foremost.  The cop had every right to collect the blood sample.  He didn't need a warrant, he didn't need the person in question to be conscious. He had every legal right (and qualifications) to collect the blood sample.  But what happened is he went in with a lousy attitude and a lot of ego and ran into the nurse that also had a big ego as well.   I'll betcha the news didn't tell you that there was a huge pissing/ego contest before the cop played his butthead card?    All that aside, that cop handled it totally and completely wrong.   SLCPD could slap the nurse with an obstruction charge, but it's not worth yet another PR black eye.
     
    Don't jump to conclusions.  The media is playing their little "fan the flames" game.
     
    That's Salt Lake City PD.  They can't go 6 months without one of their officers causing a PR cluster.


    So, this was the officers body cam, which the pd had to release. So, where is the rest of the footage?

    If she was out of line, by the paperwork she was reading off of, why didn't he provide her the correct information?

    P.s. it is the coroner job to draw blood and provide I formation related to the death. Are they drawing blood on the truck driver or the individual that caused the crash..
    post edited by Scarlet-Tech - 2017/09/03 20:56:54
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    JalenJade
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 20:53:58 (permalink)
    The Supreme Court struck down "Implied consent" laws a while back  so there is no legal right for an officer to remove the blood of that patient without the conditions of being under arrest, giving consent or a warrant.
     
    The local law doesn't matter in this case as the court ruling nullifies the law even though it's still on the books. (So are a lot of laws that are nullified either by future legislation or by court decisions.)
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    Dukman
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 21:02:04 (permalink)
    kram36
    Dukman
    kram36
    Bull, the hospital administrator also said they could not draw the blood unless 1 of the 3 conditions were met and instructed her not to do it. When the officer got told no, he snapped. People like him have no business on the police force. Both officers have been pulled from duty and apology has been given to the nurse. If the police officer was right, they would not have done that.




    Look up the local laws. The cop had every right to draw the blood.   The administrator doesn't have the right or ability to change state law.  
     
    The cop handled it (very) badly caused that whole situation to go sideways.     


    Show me the law. The nurse had it in her hands on what they needed in order to draw the blood. Why did the officers get pulled from duty and apology made to the nurse if she was wrong?




    Because they screwed up on how they handled it.  The blood draw is a requirement for every fatal accident.  The cop did have the right to draw the blood (Still looking for the pertinent info) and he was ordered by his superior to get the blood.  What your NOT seeing or hearing is that the two of them got into a huge pissing match prior to all of that going down.  

    Trust me I am not fond of SLCPD in the least.  But Im also tired of the media not telling the whole story.
     

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    Dukman
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 21:06:43 (permalink)
    Scarlet-Tech
    Dukman
    Hang on, hang on, hang on.  
     
    This is local for me and causing quite a stir, which is exactly what the media wants.  And of course, your seeing the story they want you to see and reacting the way they want you to react.
     
    First and foremost.  The cop had every right to collect the blood sample.  He didn't need a warrant, he didn't need the person in question to be conscious. He had every legal right (and qualifications) to collect the blood sample.  But what happened is he went in with a lousy attitude and a lot of ego and ran into the nurse that also had a big ego as well.   I'll betcha the news didn't tell you that there was a huge pissing/ego contest before the cop played his butthead card?    All that aside, that cop handled it totally and completely wrong.   SLCPD could slap the nurse with an obstruction charge, but it's not worth yet another PR black eye.
     
    Don't jump to conclusions.  The media is playing their little "fan the flames" game.
     
    That's Salt Lake City PD.  They can't go 6 months without one of their officers causing a PR cluster.


    So, this was the officers body cam, which the pd had to release. So, where is the rest of the footage?

    If she was out of line, by the paperwork she was reading off of, why didn't he provide her the correct information?

    P.s. it is the coroner job to draw blood and provide I formation related to the death. Are they drawing blood on the truck driver or the individual that caused the crash..



    The person in question wasn't dead.  This was truck driver who had survived the accident.
     
    And here is the law in question.

    https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title41/Chapter6A/41-6a-S520.html?v=C41-6a-S520_1800010118000101
     
    Whether you choose to believe it or not, Im getting this from someone who works in the field (nearby district).  The officer in this situation had every legal right to show up and draw the blood.  He handled the situation badly, no questions.  The nurse exacerbated the situation with her own ego.  (You won't see or hear about that because it will make her look less than perfect).
     
     
    In the end, it is what it is.   We can armchair this till the end of time.  SLCPD is once again eating more crow because their officers tend to be butt heads.
     
    post edited by Dukman - 2017/09/03 21:17:18

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    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 22:36:00 (permalink)
    Dukman
    The person in question wasn't dead.  This was truck driver who had survived the accident.
     
    And here is the law in question.

    https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title41/Chapter6A/41-6a-S520.html?v=C41-6a-S520_1800010118000101
     
    Whether you choose to believe it or not, Im getting this from someone who works in the field (nearby district).  The officer in this situation had every legal right to show up and draw the blood.  He handled the situation badly, no questions.  The nurse exacerbated the situation with her own ego.  (You won't see or hear about that because it will make her look less than perfect).
     
     
    In the end, it is what it is.   We can armchair this till the end of time.  SLCPD is once again eating more crow because their officers tend to be butt heads.
     


    That makes even less sense. "So, since you were in a truck that the car we were chasing hit, and you are in a coma, we are going to draw your blood and test you..."

    What?! If slcpd wants go release the rest of the footage, that's cool, but that sounds like a lie and an excuse. It's probably best to let them do their own bidding, since the claim that they are testing the seemingly innocent truck driver instead of the person causing the wreck.

    If the supervisor ordered the blood draw, why didn't the supervisor simply provide a warrant? Probably because someone in the didtrict is filling in the blanks and doesn't want their own guys to look bad. Basically, I feel like someone is trying to cover up a screw up.
    post edited by Scarlet-Tech - 2017/09/03 22:39:32
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    rjohnson11
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 22:52:06 (permalink)
    Dukman
    Scarlet-Tech
    Dukman
    Hang on, hang on, hang on.  

    This is local for me and causing quite a stir, which is exactly what the media wants.  And of course, your seeing the story they want you to see and reacting the way they want you to react.

    First and foremost.  The cop had every right to collect the blood sample.  He didn't need a warrant, he didn't need the person in question to be conscious. He had every legal right (and qualifications) to collect the blood sample.  But what happened is he went in with a lousy attitude and a lot of ego and ran into the nurse that also had a big ego as well.   I'll betcha the news didn't tell you that there was a huge pissing/ego contest before the cop played his butthead card?    All that aside, that cop handled it totally and completely wrong.   SLCPD could slap the nurse with an obstruction charge, but it's not worth yet another PR black eye.

    Don't jump to conclusions.  The media is playing their little "fan the flames" game.

    That's Salt Lake City PD.  They can't go 6 months without one of their officers causing a PR cluster.


    So, this was the officers body cam, which the pd had to release. So, where is the rest of the footage?

    If she was out of line, by the paperwork she was reading off of, why didn't he provide her the correct information?

    P.s. it is the coroner job to draw blood and provide I formation related to the death. Are they drawing blood on the truck driver or the individual that caused the crash..



    The person in question wasn't dead.  This was truck driver who had survived the accident.
     
    And here is the law in question.

    https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title41/Chapter6A/41-6a-S520.html?v=C41-6a-S520_1800010118000101
     
    Whether you choose to believe it or not, Im getting this from someone who works in the field (nearby district).  The officer in this situation had every legal right to show up and draw the blood.  He handled the situation badly, no questions.  The nurse exacerbated the situation with her own ego.  (You won't see or hear about that because it will make her look less than perfect).
     
     
    In the end, it is what it is.   We can armchair this till the end of time.  SLCPD is once again eating more crow because their officers tend to be butt heads.
     


    Local law cannot overreach the Supreme Court ruling on this matter. The problem here is that after the Supreme Court ruling was made in 2016 Utah did not update it's laws to comply with the ruling. 
     
    The nurse was following hospital procedures in regards to the Supreme court ruling. The arrest was unwarranted and there was excessive use of force. The full blame here goes to the Utah state government (in my personal opinion). 
    post edited by rjohnson11 - 2017/09/03 22:53:15

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    kram36
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/03 23:03:05 (permalink)
    Dukman
    Scarlet-Tech
    Dukman
    Hang on, hang on, hang on.  

    This is local for me and causing quite a stir, which is exactly what the media wants.  And of course, your seeing the story they want you to see and reacting the way they want you to react.

    First and foremost.  The cop had every right to collect the blood sample.  He didn't need a warrant, he didn't need the person in question to be conscious. He had every legal right (and qualifications) to collect the blood sample.  But what happened is he went in with a lousy attitude and a lot of ego and ran into the nurse that also had a big ego as well.   I'll betcha the news didn't tell you that there was a huge pissing/ego contest before the cop played his butthead card?    All that aside, that cop handled it totally and completely wrong.   SLCPD could slap the nurse with an obstruction charge, but it's not worth yet another PR black eye.

    Don't jump to conclusions.  The media is playing their little "fan the flames" game.

    That's Salt Lake City PD.  They can't go 6 months without one of their officers causing a PR cluster.


    So, this was the officers body cam, which the pd had to release. So, where is the rest of the footage?

    If she was out of line, by the paperwork she was reading off of, why didn't he provide her the correct information?

    P.s. it is the coroner job to draw blood and provide I formation related to the death. Are they drawing blood on the truck driver or the individual that caused the crash..



    The person in question wasn't dead.  This was truck driver who had survived the accident.
     
    And here is the law in question.

    https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title41/Chapter6A/41-6a-S520.html?v=C41-6a-S520_1800010118000101
     
    Whether you choose to believe it or not, Im getting this from someone who works in the field (nearby district).  The officer in this situation had every legal right to show up and draw the blood.  He handled the situation badly, no questions.  The nurse exacerbated the situation with her own ego.  (You won't see or hear about that because it will make her look less than perfect).
     
     
    In the end, it is what it is.   We can armchair this till the end of time.  SLCPD is once again eating more crow because their officers tend to be butt heads.
     


    All that infers to is the refusal by the person they want the test from and the punishment for refusal. A person in a coma and can not refuse or consent the test. Not once in that link does it say the test can be forced on a person against their wishes, it just states what happens if the person refuses the test. The person in this issue is in a coma and can not consent or refuse the test and the officer must adhere to what the nurse presented him with, which was they had to meet 1 of the 3 conditions in order to draw the person's blood without their consent. We don't live in a Police State and letting things like this go unchallenged will lead to a Police State. The officer was wrong in trying to force the test without meeting 1 of the requirements for a person that is unconscious and he was wrong for arresting the nurse. They didn't take both officers off duty and apologize to the nurse if they were acting within the law.
    post edited by kram36 - 2017/09/03 23:11:46

    #21
    greensoldierusa
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/04 00:20:57 (permalink)
    I have worked in federal law enforcement (DoD Chief of Security) and majored in criminal law. If any of my officers acted in this manner there would be suspensions pending the investigation. Improper training and accountability is the largest issue within the majority of departments throughout the United States. The officer is guilty of assault and battery, unlawful arrest, and frankly abduction(kidnapping) to say the least. Depending on the circumstances of the chase further charges could be filed however that would be speculation based on just what the public is privy to at this time. The issuance of a warrant from a Judge is not a difficult task and protects both law enforcement and civilians. 


    #22
    kram36
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/04 06:14:15 (permalink)


    #23
    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/04 10:03:49 (permalink)
    kram36



    Well then... I guess that says a lot more than what was posted above... "after the call was made to wait for the medical subpoena, why did the officer continue to pursue the blood draw?" Aaawwkwwarddd.... again..

    Dukman, you can try to justify his actions through a third party, but this video shows a completely difference side of what you are saying, and they probably had a lot more access to the body cam footage than we see.. again "his actions were not justified "... also, third parties will always stick up for their side.. always. Video doesn't lie.
    #24
    kaninja
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/04 11:05:56 (permalink)
    Haha I knew someone would come along trying to put blame on the nurse. Boot lickers are unreal.

    Just so everyone is aware, the SCOTUS has clearly stated you have every right to refuse an illegal arrest........and no, a legal arrest isn't just because the officer "wants to", or his commander "told him to".

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    #25
    kram36
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/04 18:11:38 (permalink)
    Duckman says we have not seen everything, yeah he's right and it makes this whole deal even worse. I won't post the video on here as the commentator uses a word at the beginning that isn't forum friendly, but go on youtube and search for The Insane Truth About Nurse Alex Wubbels' Arrest and you will see how bad the police officers involved really are. They need to be fired, period.

    #26
    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/04 19:09:18 (permalink)
    kram36
    Duckman says we have not seen everything, yeah he's right and it makes this whole deal even worse. I won't post the video on here as the commentator uses a word at the beginning that isn't forum friendly, but go on youtube and search for The Insane Truth About Nurse Alex Wubbels' Arrest and you will see how bad the police officers involved really are. They need to be fired, period.




    LOL!  The lieutenant admits the arrest won't stick, and even admits that what he is doing is illegal, and even if it is illegal, let them do it.. NO!  That is NOT how it works.. 
     
    Let's recap:  Where was the need for the blood?  What was his legal right, since Supreme Court ruled against this exact thing.  Also.. SLCPD is probably going to be losing an officer and a Lieutenant....  
     
    Also, the truck driver was a Cop.. Reserve Force, but still a cop... 
    post edited by Scarlet-Tech - 2017/09/04 19:13:03
    #27
    kram36
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/04 19:23:23 (permalink)
    Scarlet-Tech
    kram36
    Duckman says we have not seen everything, yeah he's right and it makes this whole deal even worse. I won't post the video on here as the commentator uses a word at the beginning that isn't forum friendly, but go on youtube and search for The Insane Truth About Nurse Alex Wubbels' Arrest and you will see how bad the police officers involved really are. They need to be fired, period.




    LOL!  The lieutenant admits the arrest won't stick, and even admits that what he is doing is illegal, and even if it is illegal, let them do it.. NO!  That is NOT how it works.. 
     
    Let's recap:  Where was the need for the blood?  What was his legal right, since Supreme Court ruled against this exact thing.  Also.. SLCPD is probably going to be losing an officer and a Lieutenant....  
     
    Also, the truck driver was a Cop.. Reserve Force, but still a cop... 


    It's all disturbing, even the part where the officer states how he is going to punish the hospital.
     
    Guess when Duckman says "That's Salt Lake City PD.  They can't go 6 months without one of their officers causing a PR cluster." we know why.

    #28
    kougar
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/04 23:52:57 (permalink)
    Dukman
    https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title41/Chapter6A/41-6a-S520.html?v=C41-6a-S520_1800010118000101
     
    Whether you choose to believe it or not, Im getting this from someone who works in the field (nearby district).  The officer in this situation had every legal right to show up and draw the blood.  He handled the situation badly, no questions.  The nurse exacerbated the situation with her own ego.  (You won't see or hear about that because it will make her look less than perfect).

     
    Then this person needs to also review their training. As was pointed out before your post the Supreme Court struck down all state implied consent laws over a year ago. https://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=38927
     
    What I find the most appalling is that the watch commander, and even the 4+ cops this cop was talking with, nobody tried to stop this from escalating into an arrest. It would only have taken a single cop to say this was illegal and call up the chain of command to confirm. How many cops does it take before one knows the law?
     
    The arresting officer made his orders and intent to arrest clear to all the present officers so they knew it was coming, at least one of the cops in this video should've stepped up to try and stop this. Given how involved cops are with DUI cases and drug testing I would expect them to know the laws on this better than anyone. 
    post edited by kougar - 2017/09/04 23:54:43


    #29
    knightsilver
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    Re: Arrest of university hospital nurse 2017/09/05 01:14:36 (permalink)
    RN should of sucker punched the ahole, hospital admid have her back too, or should....


     
     
    #30
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