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And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;(

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Tyehn22
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2021/03/12 19:29:08 (permalink)
Went to go play an older game (Alien Isolation) and my system shut down and video never came back. At least this one last for a few months. Looks like I have to wait until Monday to get the cross ship process started. Again. 
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/12 19:34:45 (permalink)
    I'm sorry to hear.
    Try to get EVGA to cover your fees.

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    Tyehn22
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/12 19:45:50 (permalink)
    I just hope my RMA is not a refurb again. There is obviously something wrong with these cards. 
    post edited by Tyehn22 - 2021/03/12 19:49:07
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/12 19:59:35 (permalink)
    It should be a refurb, unless you make some sort of special deal.  Try to get them to cover your shipping costs while your at it.  They often agree to cover your shipping costs after multiple RMAs.

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    dalten22
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/12 20:09:11 (permalink)
    I'm deathly curious what is causing most of the failures. Would be interesting if you sent it to a real engineer or youtuber who understood PCBs really well. PS I had to do 2 RMA"s before I got a working 2080 TI so these issues aren't new and at the time (when some people were doing nothing but blaming the users) I heard of similar stories about the 1080TI. It seems that they're getting more frequent though, but we have no way of knowing, it could just be more people quarantined at home and willing to post on a forum.
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    Tyehn22
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/12 20:45:52 (permalink)
    So my 1080ti, Zotac BTW is still alive and kicking. These EVGA 3090's are the only cards I have ever had die on me in 20 something years of buying video cards, and it is two in less than 6 months that went south. 
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    flg2010
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/12 20:51:54 (permalink)
     
     
    TWO...died.. what PSU are you using?  also.. are you using a UPS?
     
     

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/12 20:59:40 (permalink)
    Oh yeah, here it starts.

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    Tyehn22
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/12 21:50:37 (permalink)
    TWO...died.. what PSU are you using?  also.. are you using a UPS?

     
    Two different PSU's. First was time was a Thermaltake Toughpower 1200W, this time was a Be Quiet Dark Power Pro 12 1500W. Both are on conditioned power. 
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    safan80
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/12 21:54:24 (permalink)
    Tyehn22
    TWO...died.. what PSU are you using?  also.. are you using a UPS?

     
    Two different PSU's. First was time was a Thermaltake Toughpower 1200W, this time was a Be Quiet Dark Power Pro 12 1500W. Both are on conditioned power. 




    This sucks. Was the cross ship card a refurb or new?
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    transdogmifier
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 05:54:14 (permalink)
    And once again:
     
    Check your other components.
     
    It's not ALWAYS the card at fault.
     
    ty_ger07
    Oh yeah, here it starts.




    He's not wrong.
     

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    ivangogh
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 06:44:30 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    I'm sorry to hear.
    Try to get EVGA to cover your fees.


     
    How does one approach them about that?  
    I tried asking EVGA to consider the high shipping cost for my first RMA.  Not a word in response to the ask.  It cost over $200 to send from Canada.
     
     



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    neteng101
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 12:41:37 (permalink)
    dalten22
    I'm deathly curious what is causing most of the failures. Would be interesting if you sent it to a real engineer or youtuber who understood PCBs really well.



    The information is out there although not in a single place.  Check out Buildzoid's PCB analysis for the 3080 FTW3 he did for Gamers Nexus, his own PCB analysis of the 3080 Zotac card, and the super long discussion threads on the 3080 and 3090 on OCN.  These cards are crippled by the uP9511 PWM controller and the microcode that was unscrambled from the FTW3 indicated the cards were originally designed for a 2x8-pin plus 1x6-pin power input instead of the final 3x8-pin configuration that went to production.
     
    Two problems with this - the analog uP9511 relies on a back signal from the GPU to tell it what voltage to output to the GPU, and the power input was never changed so the 3rd 8-pin consistently underdraws power (its running like its a 6-pin, which indicates the components in the input path was not modified, only the connector was changed).  The higher power limits of the FTW3 cards means when they boost, they can run at higher voltages > 1.050v.  That's not a problem normally, but there's voltage overshoot that few people know - in short as the GPU starts demanding more voltage to boost, the initial surge goes beyond the target voltage.  If you want to see voltage overshoot (can only be seen with an oscilloscope and not in monitoring software) and understand why both overshoot/undershoot is problematic, there's a bunch of videos from Buildzoid on the topic but you'll have to spend a lot of time watching his videos (he tends to ramble a lot so it takes some patience to really get an understanding).
     
    Until EVGA redesigns the 3080/3090 FTW3 cards, to me its a matter of when, not if these cards go...  older games which tend not to run the cards at steady state maxed out causes more power state changes and kaboom there goes yet another 3080/3090 FTW3.  The 3090 FTW3 is especially vulnerable.  The only thing anyone can do with these cards is to undervolt them conservatively, this should help limit any overshoot to a level that hopefully doesn't damage the card.  They also need to redesign the input to balance out the 3 PCIE power inputs, and use a better PWM controller.
     
    Its interesting the new EVGA 3060 XC3 actually uses the uP9512 instead of the 9511 EVGA has been using a ton in Ampere cards...  not sure if Nvidia actually changed the reference design to require the 9512 for the 3060, but that's a possibility too.
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    SprayingMango
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 14:22:11 (permalink)
    neteng101
    dalten22
    I'm deathly curious what is causing most of the failures. Would be interesting if you sent it to a real engineer or youtuber who understood PCBs really well.



    The information is out there although not in a single place.  Check out Buildzoid's PCB analysis for the 3080 FTW3 he did for Gamers Nexus, his own PCB analysis of the 3080 Zotac card, and the super long discussion threads on the 3080 and 3090 on OCN.  These cards are crippled by the uP9511 PWM controller and the microcode that was unscrambled from the FTW3 indicated the cards were originally designed for a 2x8-pin plus 1x6-pin power input instead of the final 3x8-pin configuration that went to production.
     
    Two problems with this - the analog uP9511 relies on a back signal from the GPU to tell it what voltage to output to the GPU, and the power input was never changed so the 3rd 8-pin consistently underdraws power (its running like its a 6-pin, which indicates the components in the input path was not modified, only the connector was changed).  The higher power limits of the FTW3 cards means when they boost, they can run at higher voltages > 1.050v.  That's not a problem normally, but there's voltage overshoot that few people know - in short as the GPU starts demanding more voltage to boost, the initial surge goes beyond the target voltage.  If you want to see voltage overshoot (can only be seen with an oscilloscope and not in monitoring software) and understand why both overshoot/undershoot is problematic, there's a bunch of videos from Buildzoid on the topic but you'll have to spend a lot of time watching his videos (he tends to ramble a lot so it takes some patience to really get an understanding).
     
    Until EVGA redesigns the 3080/3090 FTW3 cards, to me its a matter of when, not if these cards go...  older games which tend not to run the cards at steady state maxed out causes more power state changes and kaboom there goes yet another 3080/3090 FTW3.  The 3090 FTW3 is especially vulnerable.  The only thing anyone can do with these cards is to undervolt them conservatively, this should help limit any overshoot to a level that hopefully doesn't damage the card.  They also need to redesign the input to balance out the 3 PCIE power inputs, and use a better PWM controller.
     
    Its interesting the new EVGA 3060 XC3 actually uses the uP9512 instead of the 9511 EVGA has been using a ton in Ampere cards...  not sure if Nvidia actually changed the reference design to require the 9512 for the 3060, but that's a possibility too.




     
    So you are an engineer? Oh wait, Buildzoid isn't an engineer either. He has literally ZERO actual education in the fields of electronics, electrical engineering, board design, etc. I find it hilarious when clowns cite him as some kind of legitimate reference. 

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    Montana.Actual
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 16:17:59 (permalink)
    and on that note... I'm your huckleberry.

    I find it funnier when people defend a brand instead of acknowledging a problem, regardless of who brings it up. It's obviously a common thing. What "legit" citations can you provide that prove otherwise? If these cards are not working with "certain" components, then how exactly would someone be to blame for that? Or how would they even know? How does that even happen? It's one thing to get a BSOD and have to downclock your CPU when upgrading a GPU after 3 or 4 years, bit it's entirely different to make it personal because someone's PSU that powers literally everything else is all the sudden the "problem" in question. We know there are power draw irregularities. Is it really the random PSU's at fault? Nope. It doesn't take a degree or 30 years in a trade to see there is a problem here... 

    You had a card fail too, right? So why discredit someone trying to expose potential and most likely the cause of these issues? I'd trust someone trying to troubleshoot and expose what they find before I trust a multi million dollar company to just be "honest" or "do the right thing". We all know EVGA has done an okay job at RMA stuff so far, but it's pretty obvious they can't get their **** straight until the 3rd gen and first 500,000 cards already sold... iI had thermal throttling on a 1070. It took them months to acknowledge it and then they just release new cards. Not too many other big brands having to do that, over, and over...
    post edited by Montana.Actual - 2021/03/13 16:32:18
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    Kylearan
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 16:46:21 (permalink)
    Holy crap.
    What's with all the trolls here trying to blame a person's POWER SUPPLY?  This is worse than reddit!

    My block list is running out of space....
    Ok listen trolls--if you have nothing useful to contribute --DON'T POST.
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 16:52:43 (permalink)
    Yep, it's happening.

    So much toxicity. Why does this crap always occur in all of these threads? It's well established that it is not very uncommon for these cards to fail this way. But then if it happens more than once in a row, somehow it brings out the doubters and the arguers. It makes no sense.

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    erayser
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 16:55:22 (permalink)
    Too bad there isn't a way to poll how many had to rma their ftw3 cards compared to how many ftw3 owners still have a working card.  My ticking time bomb is still working since November... now I jinxed myself... LOL...   I've changed it a few times since I bought it... originally red lips, then converted it to a black lip shroud, now it has a hybrid kit... still performing fine for me with no issues... at least for now...  All I read here in this forum are people that have issues with their ftw3 cards...  There aren't many threads on ftw3 cards who hasn't had any issues... but why come this forum if you don't have an issue???  haha..  damnit.. I jinxed myself again. :P

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    Turbo-12R
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 17:06:16 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    Yep, it's happening.

    So much toxicity. Why does this crap always occur in all of these threads? It's well established that it is not very uncommon for these cards to fail this way. But then if it happens more than once in a row, somehow it brings out the doubters and the arguers. It makes no sense.



    And yet we can always bank on you to be right in the middle of it now can't we....
     
    Still don't own one or ever used one yet have you...?




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    Turbo-12R
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 17:49:59 (permalink)
    Like another user said, these things happen even with previous gen cards.  The facts are that PC and peripheral sales in 2020 and into 2021 were at record levels because instead of people being able to use money on vacations, they opted to spend money on other forms of family/home entertainment.
     
    What Ty-ger can't seem to comprehend is the sheer numbers of these cards sold.  Yes, they have acknowledged a power balance issue that is not allowing big overclocks with most of the cards.  That problem however mainly only effects the enthusiast owner in reality as the normal user will not try to push their card that hard.
     
    Even if you just estimated that EVGA sold 10,000 3090 GPU's, how many are in here expressing a problem?  100...200?  That's still a pretty low percentage of actual failures.  The one thing though that we can be sure of is people seek customer service and forums out when they are having a problem than when they are not.  Naturally it's going to "seem" skewed in here because of that.

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    ivangogh
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 18:12:18 (permalink)
    If we are indeed a tiny percentage of users experiencing GPU deaths, it brings up a question. Are defective ftw3's being recycled between people who RMA? Are we basically swapping parts with each other through the manufacturer?
    It's very scary to hear about multiple replacements failing. Where's the RMA stock coming from?
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    bavor
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 19:19:30 (permalink)
    flg2010
    TWO...died.. what PSU are you using?  also.. are you using a UPS?



    If you would look around this forum, you would see its not a PSU issue.  Its a 3090 FTW3 issue.  The power supply topic has been covered many times before and people with 1300-1600 reputable name brand 80+ Gold, 80+ Platinum, and 80+Titanium PSUs are having multiple 3090 FTW3 failures.
    #22
    bavor
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 19:38:28 (permalink)
    transdogmifier
    And once again:
     
    Check your other components.
     
    It's not ALWAYS the card at fault.
     



    In the case of the multiple 3090 FTW3 card failures, it is the card's fault.  I was one of many EVGA 3090 FTW3 customers who had multiple 3090 FTW3 RMAs and multiple problems.  If I ran any DX11 game the card would crash every 15 to 60 minutes depending on the game.  I had crashes in some DX12 games.  I replicated the problems in two different systems using three different power supplies.  I also replicated the problems when using a seperate PSU to just power the card.  After multiple failures, I went out and bought a 3x8 pin MSI 3090 and could not replicate any of the problems my 3090 FTW3 had in either system.  When I had a 3090 Strix available to me for a couple weeks, I could not replicate the problems I had with my EVGA 3090 FTW3s in either system.  When I flashed the EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra factory BIOS on both the MSI and Asus Strix 3090 cards, I could not replicate the problems that I had in either system with the EVGA 3090 FTW3 cards.  When I flashed the EVGA XOC BIOS on both the MSI and Asus Strix 3090 cards, I could not replicate the problems that I had in either system with the EVGA 3090 FTW3 cards.  I flashed the Kingpin 1000w LN2 BIOS to the MSI and Strix 3090, had those cards pulling 600-700 watts in benchmarks when water cooled and could not replicate the problems I had with the EVGA 3090 FTW3 cards with their stock or XOC BIOS. If I can have a 3090(MSI or Asus) pulling nearly 700 watts during benchmarks and stress tests in my system without issues, do you want to explain to me how my hardware was causing the problem????
     
    In addition to that, before the 3090 FTW3 I was running a pair of 2080 Supers SLI/NVLink with a 351 watt BIOS on each card.  When the 2080 Supers were pulling their maximum power during benchmarks and stress tests, which is more power than the 3090 FTW3 pulls, I had no issues.
     
    I see you reply to many posts of people with 3090 FTW3 cards that have repeat problems blaming it on their other hardware.  The simple fact is all my problems went away when I replaced the EVGA 3090 FTW3 card with a MSI card with a 450 watt BIOS, even when I put the different EVGA BIOS versions on the MSI card.
     
    I really want EVGA to fix this so I have confidence in buying a RTX 4000 or RTX 5000 series card from them in the future.
    #23
    ty_ger07
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 19:54:56 (permalink)
    What helpful thing have you brought to this conversation?  Other than attacking people (me), what on-topic helpful information have you provided?  You are helping by "proving" something (that is unprovable) that I never said?
     
    I don't know how many times I need to repeat this:
    I don't need to own the card (or even be interested in buying the card) in order to read, understand, and discuss on-topic things relevant to a thread.  I can choose which threads I want to be involved in.  You can too.  Please be involved in on-topic discussion.  Don't follow me around and attack me.  This is childish.

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    Turbo-12R
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 20:09:39 (permalink)
    You're right, I will not counter your posts again.  I find you more than irritating, and that is for sure.  I find that you bring nothing new to a thread other than what has been said 1000 times in previous posts, and half of those posts are by you.
     
    I've said peace.  If we happen to be in another thread together it will be by coincidence only. 

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    #25
    ty_ger07
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 20:14:15 (permalink)
    ivangogh
    ty_ger07
    I'm sorry to hear.
    Try to get EVGA to cover your fees.


     
    How does one approach them about that?  
    I tried asking EVGA to consider the high shipping cost for my first RMA.  Not a word in response to the ask.  It cost over $200 to send from Canada.

    Call them up during the week and ask to talk to a manager about your RMA service ticket.
    If you try to do it in the RMA service ticket, I think it will probably just be ignored or get you nowhere very fast.

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    #26
    atfrico
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 20:50:13 (permalink)
    Your replacement might be failing for having cheap capacitors installed in the board, please see below video, very interesting.
     


    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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    #27
    badboy64
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 20:59:05 (permalink)
    Tyehn22
    Went to go play an older game (Alien Isolation) and my system shut down and video never came back. At least this one last for a few months. Looks like I have to wait until Monday to get the cross ship process started. Again. 


    It would be nice for you list your system specs and what resolution you play the game at and game settings. I too play 3 older games than you with Skyrim, DA2 and DA:O but I play them at 4k and I override all of the game settings in the NVIDIA control panel with max setting as much as possible. I have had my eVga 3090 FTW3 Ultra for over 4 and half months now and well 1000+ hours in gaming and at least 75+ 3Dmark benchmarks and I also use it for folding at home also when I go to work and when I sleep. I went from a air cooled card to a hybrid card and now watercooling it.
    post edited by badboy64 - 2021/03/13 22:58:06

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    #28
    ivangogh
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 21:16:39 (permalink)
    atfrico
    Your replacement might be failing for having cheap capacitors installed in the board, please see below video, very interesting.
     



    I'm pretty sure this specific model has these parts alright.

    The clip talks about an early-discovered issue that got dealt with through drivers. Still unfortunate for owners, but as far as I know there was a fix.
    #29
    atfrico
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    Re: And my replacement 3090 FTW3 Ultra just died exactly the same way again ;( 2021/03/13 21:28:55 (permalink)
    ivangogh
    atfrico
    Your replacement might be failing for having cheap capacitors installed in the board, please see below video, very interesting.
     



    I'm pretty sure this specific model has these parts alright.

    The clip talks about an early-discovered issue that got dealt with through drivers. Still unfortunate for owners, but as far as I know there was a fix.

    Yes, underclocking the GPU, if that doesn't do, it may be the capacitors, hence RMA it. In my opinion, the best thing to do if you own these cards is to water cool it, or buy the hybrid kit to keep it cooler and last you longer. This reminds me of the GTX 480 series launch.

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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    #30
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