lewinr
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Hi All, I'm new to this so I'll appreciate any advice you can provide. I recently got a 70" 4k HDR TV and I wanted to upgrade my home theatre PC so I could watch 4k HDR10 movies. (My existing HTPC was not powerful enough.) After a bit of research I understood that the Z390 motherboard should work well because the motherboard supports HDMI 1.2 which would give me 4k HDR output with the Intel UHD Graphics 630 GPU. I do not want to use it for 3d gaming, it is basically for watching 4k movies that have been ripped to disk or downloaded. So a built a system with the Z390 and Intel i3-8100 CPU. (16gb of RAM and an SSD). The RAM is 2pcs of Corsair 8GB 2133 MHz CL15 288-Pin DIMM DDR4 (CMV8GX4M1A2133C15). I'm running Windows 10 Enterprise and I know Windows well and it is well optimized, all drivers up to date, etc. Nothing installed except for POT Player which is my preferred media player. Resolution is set for 3840x2160 with HDR enabled, and the picture looks great. (I disabled all the "optimizations" in the Intel video driver.) However when I play 4k video files the playback is not smooth at all. Using PowerDVD as a player gives the same result. So I decided that the CPU is under-powered and bought a i7-8700T CPU instead. Now I got and installed the new CPU and while the performance is better, video is still not totally smooth. So I did some investigation and used Novabench to benchmark my system. I was surprised to see 17 fps and not a great novabench score: (my CPU is 0000 because it is an engineering sample so it does not display the name correctly, but functionally it is the same as the i7-8700T). Are these results approximately right for my configuration? And if yes, where did I go wrong? (since i'm new at this I'm afraid the answer is going to be "In alot of places...") And how do I fix it? 1. Is the CPU powerful enough? (I think I understood now that I cannot overclock this CPU to get better performance and I should have gone with a 8700k to be able to use the capabilities of this motherboard to overclock... is that correct?) 2. Do I have my BIOS setup correctly? Here is a shot of the first screen, I'll upload a couple more shots in the following message(s). Any advice on how to solve my problem and get smooth video playback will be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
post edited by lewinr - 2018/11/05 18:21:23
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/05 18:14:04
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/05 18:15:06
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/05 18:22:27
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What case and what temps? You "bought" an engineering sample i7-8700T?
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/05 21:37:14
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The case is a Rosewill ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, very standard type. APEVIA ATX-JP600W power supply, if it matters. Yes, I bought an engineering sample CPU. These are identical to production CPUs but produced in small quantities and distributed to motherboard manufacturers to allow them to test their motherboards before full scale production and OEM/retail sales of the CPUs are started. Novabench reports 40-45c operating temperature while I'm watching a 4k video. (Not much higher than when the PC is idle). Task Manager shows 15%-20% CPU utilization.
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/06 00:01:27
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What are your power management settings, is the system trying to throttle stuff for heat / noise with low cpu usage? Not very impressive memory as it doesn't even support 1 XMP profile Also in the bios picture in post #2 the "DVMT Total GFx Mem" (in red) is only set at 256mb - get that thing up to at least a gig or more (note: in the link below the GPU portion can support up to 64gb assigned memory so don't worry about giving it too much) As to the CPU I didn't think those samples were supposed to be sold off like that - Link to the CPU specs - https://ark.intel.com/pro...-Cache-up-to-4-00-GHz-
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Sajin
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/06 09:49:01
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Not surprised about the poor performance on integrated graphics. If you want better performance buy a cheap dedicated gpu like a gt 1030.
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/06 21:52:16
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Look into the EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 GAMING, 03G-P4-6151-KRIt will give you a little overhead in playback grunt The 1030 series is just a tick below (but still considered 4k) in resolution when compared to the Intel® UHD Graphics 630. But running at max resolution you are pushing the 630 to its limits and other then the fact the 1030 has 2gb dedicated memory you would be pushing it at it's resolution limits as well
post edited by GGTV-Jon - 2018/11/06 21:58:42
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/06 22:01:34
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I'm surprised that the built-in GPU is so weak. I wasnt expecting to do 3D gaming on it, but I thought I should be able to watch video files reasonably well. Are you saying "get a dedicated GPU" because you're confident that the poor performance I'm experiencing is the result of the GPU? It could not be caused by improper BIOS configuration or some other settings? Changing RAM or improving BIOS settings would not help? (How about overclocking?) Thanks again for your advice...
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/06 22:21:27
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GGTV-Jon What are your power management settings, is the system trying to throttle stuff for heat / noise with low cpu usage?
I've got Windows 10 set for "ultimum performance", and I checked that none of the cores are parked. GGTV-Jon Not very impressive memory as it doesn't even support 1 XMP profile
I'm not sure what XMP is, but I'll look into it. Is that something that the motherboard determines itself, and I cannot override it? GGTV-Jon Also in the bios picture in post #2 the "DVMT Total GFx Mem" (in red) is only set at 256mb - get that thing up to at least a gig or more (note: in the link below the GPU portion can support up to 64gb assigned memory so don't worry about giving it too much)
My options in the BIOS are only 128M, 256M and Max. I changed it to "Max" but it didnt improve the fps rate. GGTV-Jon As to the CPU I didn't think those samples were supposed to be sold off like that - Link to the CPU specs -
It's common enough to find people selling ES CPUs on ebay.
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/06 22:25:51
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First thing I would try is increasing the allotted ram to the integrated GPU In the end if the playback is not acceptable then yes a dedicated gpu would be needed. As noted Yes the Intel® UHD Graphics 630 can operate at an 4k resolution, if all you were doing was looking at web pages. They claim video playback will work as well but I have not seen any figures as to how well. I did find this link - https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/intel-hd-graphics-comparison They have a chart showing that the 630 GPU portion has a max hz of 1.10Ghz - a bit lower then the actual full CPU speed. In post #5 you stated that the CPU utilization was only 15-20% during playback. I think you need to use GPU-Z and watch what the GPU Video Engine Load instead on the Sensors Tab
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/06 22:35:26
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Here is an easy explanation of XMP - https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/xmp Is it more for upper end gaming and people overclocking - Yes For the every day web surfer with zero gaming - No My takeaway though is if the memory manufacturer is building these and they are not listed atleast as XMP Ready (as per that wiki definition) then they are memory sticks that are bottom basement, bottom performers. Will they be cheap - yes (if not then the buyer got taken for a ride)
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/06 22:43:07
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I just had a thought, are the source files on the HTPC or are you reading them off an local NAS or are you using something like Plex?
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somethingc00l
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/07 15:26:07
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The Target CPU frequency looks off in the BIOS, 8700t base clock is 2.4 GHz not 1.6. Every ES CPU I've used has properly reported it's model and frequency, I'm thinking you might not really have the CPU you think you do. Also you mention HDMI 1.2 (you need HDMI 2.0 for 4k) so I assume you are talking about the EVGA z390 Dark with the mini DP 1.2 port? Are you using an DP to HDMI converter? What kind? This system is way overkill for your needs, you would be fine with that i3 and a much cheaper mother board like the H370 (in fact it would be a better choice for HTPC as you get more outputs including HDMI 2.0). The iGPU on the CPU (UHD 630) is what does the video playback in hardware if your software is set up correctly. That means very little CPU use. The supported formats and codec can been seen here: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/uhd_graphics/630 H.264 and H.265 and VP9 are all supported up to 4k. PotPlayer is quite advanced and it's possible you haven't properly configured it for HW accelerated playback. I'd suggest downloading the latest version of VLC and try playback with that. You can download the 4k/60 version of Big Buck Bunny here and use that to test: http://bbb3d.renderfarming.net/ CPU usage should be under 20% during playback. The i3 you had has the exact same iGPU as the i7 so video playback performance should be identical between them.
post edited by somethingc00l - 2018/11/07 15:33:28
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/08 22:05:49
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GGTV-Jon I just had a thought, are the source files on the HTPC or are you reading them off an local NAS or are you using something like Plex?
The source files are on the local SATA connected SSD.
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/08 22:13:40
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somethingc00l The Target CPU frequency looks off in the BIOS, 8700t base clock is 2.4 GHz not 1.6. Every ES CPU I've used has properly reported it's model and frequency, I'm thinking you might not really have the CPU you think you do.
Hmmmm... Thanks for noticing that. Is there any way I can verify which CPU it is without removing the fan, cleaning the thermal compound and reading the chip? somethingc00l Also you mention HDMI 1.2 (you need HDMI 2.0 for 4k) so I assume you are talking about the EVGA z390 Dark with the mini DP 1.2 port? Are you using an DP to HDMI converter? What kind?
Sorry, this was my mistake. In fact the Z390 has HDMI 2.0a and I'm using that and able to confirm on my display that I've got 4k HDR10 output. somethingc00l This system is way overkill for your needs, you would be fine with that i3 and a much cheaper mother board like the H370 (in fact it would be a better choice for HTPC as you get more outputs including HDMI 2.0).
Perhaps. I went with the i3 at first but thought that my low performance was due to the the i3 being to low end. Anyway I've got this all setup now and I dont think I would bother changing it. somethingc00l The iGPU on the CPU (UHD 630) is what does the video playback in hardware if your software is set up correctly. That means very little CPU use. The supported formats and codec can been seen here: H.264 and H.265 and VP9 are all supported up to 4k.
ok, nevertheless I'm still wondering why my frame rate is so low. Maybe it is the CPU speed. I'll try to increase the frequency in the BIOS. somethingc00l PotPlayer is quite advanced and it's possible you haven't properly configured it for HW accelerated playback. I'd suggest downloading the latest version of VLC and try playback with that. You can download the 4k/60 version of Big Buck Bunny here and use that to test: CPU usage should be under 20% during playback. The i3 you had has the exact same iGPU as the i7 so video playback performance should be identical between them.
I'm pretty familiar with POTPlayer and the default is to use HW acceleration. thanks again for your advice!
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/08 22:16:22
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GGTV-Jon Here is an easy explanation of XMP - Is it more for upper end gaming and people overclocking - Yes For the every day web surfer with zero gaming - No My takeaway though is if the memory manufacturer is building these and they are not listed atleast as XMP Ready (as per that wiki definition) then they are memory sticks that are bottom basement, bottom performers. Will they be cheap - yes (if not then the buyer got taken for a ride)
yes, I bought low-cost RAM but I havent played with PC hardware in many years and didnt know about XMP so it was just my mistake. By how much would good XMP-capable RAM increase my performance? (I guess it would affect mainly RAM-intensive operations like work with large in-memory databases.)
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/08 22:33:02
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I think there may be a misconception about the GPU and CPU portions of the CPU you have. They operate at different speeds and other then perhaps the Base Clock (BCLK) speed their core speeds operate independent. Generally the GPU aspect is left alone in regards to changing its operational speed. Can you give us the actual part number for the memory you have? I am now wondering if it just reports the XMP profiles the way they are showing up because your settings were on Auto Which Z370 board do you have, Classified K or FTW? You can check to see what memory has been tested by EVGA for your board here - https://www.evga.com/support/motherboard/ The better ram will have faster speeds and tighter timings = better performance keeping your CPU / GPU feed
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/08 22:45:03
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Hi, I have 2pcs of 8GB 2133 MHz CL15 288-Pin DIMM DDR4 RAM Memory (CMV8GX4M1A2133C15). I am using the Z370 Classified K.
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/08 22:47:22
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Just to tease you a little I just did a nova bench run -
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/08 23:05:21
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lewinr can you do a CPU-Z screenshot just like the one below, I want to see what is listed for the memory setup selections. I have seen the specs for your memory on the corsair page but the information is pretty bland. A question came to me just after I posted this, how big are the video files?
post edited by GGTV-Jon - 2018/11/08 23:08:34
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/08 23:38:35
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/09 07:31:54
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GGTV-Jon A question came to me just after I posted this, how big are the video files?
26gb for 3.5 hours of video.
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/09 09:15:03
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The CPU-Z shot I was hoping to see was the "SPD" tab With a source file that big perhaps bumping your system memory to 32gb would help so it is not having to pull from your storage the entire time Also need to find out what the "Max" setting on the DVMT actually does, 256mb seems light. Perhaps Max is a percentage of whatever your total memory was
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/09 10:36:52
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somethingc00l
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/09 13:17:03
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Ok something is up with your CPU and/or the BIOS is having trouble recognizing what settings to run it at. 8700T should have a turbo ratio of 8-40, not 8-36. It's a very early ES if that's right. Other than that it looks ok but personally I would swap back in the i3 if you have it to be sure it's not the CPU messing you up. You need to quit looking to your hardware to fix this issue. I'm 99% sure it's a software issue, either drivers or playback. The hardware you have is more than capable of this task. Overclocking, adding more memory, memory timings, etc. that you are discussing have no effect on the iGPU for video playback. Get the latest drivers from Intel to start: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/28289/Intel-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-10?product=80939 Doesn't sound like you actually tried VLC?
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/09 19:47:53
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Only reason I was looking at his memory was to make sure the system as a whole was working correctly. Amount of memory would affect prolonged buffering / reads in regards to source file size I did point out above that OC on the CPU would have no affect on the GPU portion of the chip
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lewinr
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/10 08:18:33
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I asked evga support about the DVMT BIOS setting and the CSR (Alan Turner) replied "This setting should not need to be changed as the Intel HD Graphics driver for Windows will allocate as much memory as is required. The only time that Windows users should modify this setting is if they have a poorly-written game that refuses to run unless it sees that a certain amount of dedicated memory is available. There is no performance advantage to dedicating additional memory for graphics.".
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GGTV-Jon
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/10 08:22:19
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lewinr I asked evga support about the DVMT BIOS setting and the CSR (Alan Turner) replied "This setting should not need to be changed as the Intel HD Graphics driver for Windows will allocate as much memory as is required. The only time that Windows users should modify this setting is if they have a poorly-written game that refuses to run unless it sees that a certain amount of dedicated memory is available. There is no performance advantage to dedicating additional memory for graphics.".
Now we know why there is such a low setting
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MelonGx
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Re: Advice please: Poor performance and fps with Z370 for 4k HTPC
2018/11/12 22:27:27
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Potplayer's configuration is NOT User-Friendly enough so I uninstalled it. If you use K-Lite Codec Mega, then you can ask me for configuration. But in general, UHD630 can only handle 4K 24fps standard HEVC. If your test video is oldies such as 4K X264 X265 format, which consumes much more hardware procession, then you need a 1050 or higher GPU in order to have enough spec to play it. BTW, you shouldn't pay much attention on BIOS / RAM / CPU configurations, because UHD630 is just a dump which cannot be boosted by anything.
post edited by MelonGx - 2018/11/12 22:35:48
EVGA H370 Stinger / i7 9700T / 16GB 2667 / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD / UHD630 / abee 150W DC-ATX / abee acubic S10
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