Grey_Beard
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I am getting ready to do a number of new builds. I recently built a new house. In the office I had asked for two dedicated circuits for my PCs. They installed two 30AMP circuits each with a NEMA 14-30P plug, just like for an electric dryer. I am looking at either an adapter or a new plug. I can order a UPS with a NEMA L5-30R plug for the wall but I am concerned about replacing the receptacles with those. Can I do two on them in that outlet? I also have a couple of standard NEMA 5-15 plugs on my current UPS units. Would like to use what I got but want to take advantage of the voltage and amps these dedicated circuits allow me. If I replace with single or dual L5-30R, I will still need an adapter for the regular 5-15 or 5-20 plugs. I know enough to be dangerous, but know when to ask for advice. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Let me know if you need pictures.
post edited by Grey_Beard - 2020/05/28 14:34:07
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XrayMan
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/28 15:04:33
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Moved to General Hardware.
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Cool GTX
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/28 15:10:15
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Is the electrician who wired your new house available ? It is Not all that user friendly - but, free NEC link below .. & Code can Vary by State, County & City Do it yourself - if allowed in your local ? .. better talk with your homeowners --> better yet have it inspected Total loads you are going to want at each receptacle ? this might determine much of what you can / can't do ... Two 15 Amp outlets on a 30A circuit = OK Adapters & the proper gauge wire cord is a messy solution Free online access to the NEC® and other electrical standards NEC Adoption Map
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kelkel1
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/28 15:26:36
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I want to see how this turns out.
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/29 13:29:34
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Cool GTX Is the electrician who wired your new house available ? Yes, but I always like to get some information prior. Unfortunately, I am out of my league with this. Cool GTX Do it yourself - if allowed in your local ? .. better talk with your homeowners --> better yet have it inspected Not really wanting time do this myself, just want to make an informed decision so that I can utilize what is best and not just take what the electrician says, since some are not as knowledgeable on the computer system front to understand what I want to do. Can always explain it better if I understand their world a bit better. Cool GTX Total loads you are going to want at each receptacle ? this might determine much of what you can / can't do ... The most I can get. The three builds I am doing have a total wattage of 1,200W, 850W and 900W. I have one current UPS which has a capacity of 1,600W, a NEMA 5-15 plug, has another additional battery for longer up time for the 1,200W build. The other two I can put on one UPS, but that one would be 2,000W with a NEMA 5-30 plug. I also have two others if I decide to use a multiple GPU setup for the larger build, as they are both NEMA 5-15. I have options, but need to know the best for this. Cool GTX Two 15 Amp outlets on a 30A circuit = OK Yes, but what about the voltage. These circuits are 220V. How does that factor into all of this? Cool GTX Adapters & the proper gauge wire cord is a messy solution
I really do not like using them either. Not the solution I want. Thanks for the questions, as this may all help me to ask the right questions to my electrician.
post edited by Grey_Beard - 2020/05/29 13:31:54
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kelkel1
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/29 15:07:04
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OK, you need to decide what voltage and amperage you need. You have 250V receptacles installed now, and all the various plugs you listed are 125V. When I set up my computer room, I ran two dedicated 125V/20A circuits. I have a 1500W/850VA UPS backing up my rig. On my nominal 120V line, that equals 12.5A max. A 20A OCP is sized for a 16A continuous (three hours or more) load. The UPS does not power the rig, it merely provides power for a short period of time when utility power goes out, to allow you to safely shut down the machine. To effectively size you circuit, you need to calculate the total maximum connected load, which should be less than 80% of the OCPD, and therefore the circuit size. Also, @Cool GTX, installing 15A receptacles on a 30A OCPD (breaker) is not advisable, two 15A receptacles do not add up to 30A. All the components of the circuit (conductors, devices, OCP) must be sized accordingly.
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ty_ger07
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/29 16:45:27
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Assuming that your PSU is 230v tolerant (probably is), and the PSU wire is rated for 230v (or you find one that is), I would cut the end off your PSU wire and replace it with an end which is compatible with your outlet. That would be way more legit than installing 120v 20 amp outlets in your wall and would be way more legit than a short adapter cable. If you put 120v 20 amp plugs anywhere in that circuit (in your wall or in an adapter cable), it will not be up to code. If you violate code, it will void your homeowners insurance if there is ever a fire (no matter where the fire is and no matter the cause).
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/05/29 19:46:30
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Cool GTX
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/30 10:09:38
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OK, so your first choice is Voltage - 220V vs 120V I'm in the same boat ... have some very large 120V UPSs already.... undecided if there is a significant savings or other reason to go 220V & buy new UPS units - because I can wire it to fit my needs & buying new UPS units is not my first choice. The energy efficiencies @ 220V seems marginal .. does not pay for itself - the cost of New UPS units @ $700 for the bigger units & $600 for the smaller ones I use these: CyberPower PR1500LCDRTXL2U (1500W) & PR1500LCDRT2U (1350W) If you decide to go 120V - your electrician will most likely use the existing circuit & outlet as a junction box Depends on the wire gauge that was installed originally ... how many Amp your outlet will support Per Feed @ 120V (you have 2 - hot wires in that 220/230V box)
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sookoo
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/30 11:18:59
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If they ran 30a 220v to a dryer outlet they likely used 12ga, that's code in Canada at least, a range @40a runs 10ga, normal 15a circuits run 14ga. agreed with last post, the 220 is 2 hot wires, your house has two 110 lines running into it and they get sent where ever, marked in the panel as A and B. so if you split down that line they ran, into two 110 lines, the problem becomes that you are still using a dual breaker....a dryer 30A breaker is two 30A breakers slapped together and they trip in unison so if you split them out without changing the breaker aside from issues beyond my scope of an entry apprentice..i know this, if one phase trips the other would also shut off. so if you separate those you need to change the breaker otherwise they'd still be tied together in that sense at the panel. as for whats best amp wise etc, that's all down to what your expected draw is on the line. if the ps was forced to 20a it would have one vertical tine and one horizontal one the plug though some 20a appliances can have normal (two vertical) tines all the same (like a microwave), you just ideally run them into a 20A rated outlet (one that has one tine both horizontal and vertical compatable) and in the case of a microwave run on a dedicated circuit. running dedicated circuits is a cost at the panel and the extra wire for each line consideration and something common for microwaves since they have a heavy draw, a concept you're now applying for your rig/ups. simply, you cant run two 110 lines of a tandem breaker. and the 220/110 rating on your pc is designed to support single phase 110 or single phase 220, not the two phase 220 you've got running there. hope that helps
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/30 11:35:19
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The big unit I have is https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/smart-app-lcd/or2200lcdrtxl2u/ with an extended battery https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/extended-battery-modules/bp48vp2u02/. I also have two of these: https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/pfc-sinewave/cp1500pfclcd/
Why I have asked for advice is that these are 220/230V circuits and I have 110V units. Yes I can purchase a 220/230V unit, but I would not like another $1,000 investment here and have these units not being used. A few hundred for an electrician to get this right is worth it. I can get the next purchase at 220/230 voltage if one can be changed. Options are limited too at that voltage. I think my builder thought he was doing me a favor because I did not ask for 220/230V circuits. I appreciate it, but it has complicated this. The voltage is my main concern. I do not mind this being a junction box to other outlets, if that is the best option for maybe one, but not both. Also most 220/230V units do not have a 14-30 plug. These are very industrial circuits, which I am glad to have. Given my penchant to build even more machines and for the folding and crunching I like to participate in makes this a good option once figured out. Next up is solar panels for this and the whole house. In due time. Thanks again for the information and discussion.
post edited by Grey_Beard - 2020/05/30 12:01:45
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/30 12:08:17
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Cool GTX If you decide to go 120V - your electrician will most likely use the existing circuit & outlet as a junction box
I like this option. How many plugs can this circuit hold? 2, 4, 8? The current plug has four wires, (two hot, one black, one ground). This was also why I was so concerned about this. The voltage and the wiring in changing the plugs out. Not many replacements have a four wire set-up unless it one like I have.
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kelkel1
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/30 12:42:31
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You could replace the two 30A two pole breakers with four single pole 20A breakers in the panel and install split circuit duplex 20A receptacles, and utilize all four wires in the existing outlet. But, my best advice; just hire an electrician.
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/30 13:22:35
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kelkel1 You could replace the two 30A two pole breakers with four single pole 20A breakers in the panel and install split circuit duplex 20A receptacles, and utilize all four wires in the existing outlet. But, my best advice; just hire an electrician.
Thanks. Of course I am hiring an electrician for this. Just getting the ideas of what to talk with them about to make sure this is done correctly.
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/30 13:29:54
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sookoo If they ran 30a 220v to a dryer outlet they likely used 12ga, that's code in Canada at least, a range @40a runs 10ga, normal 15a circuits run 14ga. agreed with last post, the 220 is 2 hot wires, your house has two 110 lines running into it and they get sent where ever, marked in the panel as A and B. so if you split down that line they ran, into two 110 lines, the problem becomes that you are still using a dual breaker....a dryer 30A breaker is two 30A breakers slapped together and they trip in unison so if you split them out without changing the breaker aside from issues beyond my scope of an entry apprentice..i know this, if one phase trips the other would also shut off. so if you separate those you need to change the breaker otherwise they'd still be tied together in that sense at the panel. as for whats best amp wise etc, that's all down to what your expected draw is on the line. if the ps was forced to 20a it would have one vertical tine and one horizontal one the plug though some 20a appliances can have normal (two vertical) tines all the same (like a microwave), you just ideally run them into a 20A rated outlet (one that has one tine both horizontal and vertical compatable) and in the case of a microwave run on a dedicated circuit. running dedicated circuits is a cost at the panel and the extra wire for each line consideration and something common for microwaves since they have a heavy draw, a concept you're now applying for your rig/ups. simply, you cant run two 110 lines of a tandem breaker. and the 220/110 rating on your pc is designed to support single phase 110 or single phase 220, not the two phase 220 you've got running there. hope that helps
It is two 30A breakers in the box. I was hopeful that new wiring would not be necessary or I would have pushed this during the build process. The wiring is 12g. Yes this helps. I will schedule a meeting with the electrician to get an estimate then decide from there. I will keep this thread updated. Here is a picture of current plug. There are two of these, one on one wall and one on another.
post edited by Grey_Beard - 2020/06/01 13:55:16
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Cool GTX
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/31 12:35:17
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Each of your Current 230V 4-wire boxes will support --> TWO --> 20 Amp outlets ... the other two wire .. Neutral & Ground will be used on both So, you should end up with a total of up to (4) 20 Amp outlets - per current 230V box ... using wire that was originally routed trough the walls Leviton CR020-W 20-Amp (typical dual ) --> there are also Single outlets for 120V 20Amp Leviton T5020-W (typical single) I thought it obvious & did not mention before ... as other mentioned .. yes, you change the breakers ... arc fault and all being required now days
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T-Wolf
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/05/31 13:41:22
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Grey_Beard I am getting ready to do a number of new builds. I recently built a new house. In the office I had asked for two dedicated circuits for my PCs. They installed two 30AMP circuits each with a NEMA 14-30P plug, just like for an electric dryer. I am looking at either an adapter or a new plug. I can order a UPS with a NEMA L5-30R plug for the wall but I am concerned about replacing the receptacles with those. Can I do two on them in that outlet? I also have a couple of standard NEMA 5-15 plugs on my current UPS units. Would like to use what I got but want to take advantage of the voltage and amps these dedicated circuits allow me. If I replace with single or dual L5-30R, I will still need an adapter for the regular 5-15 or 5-20 plugs. I know enough to be dangerous, but know when to ask for advice.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Let me know if you need pictures.
For 30 amps you need 10 gauge wire by code even if you split it to 2/4 120 volt plugs you still need to consider the load you will be pulling.
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/01 13:25:29
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This is the current outlets I have.
post edited by Grey_Beard - 2020/06/01 13:55:57
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/01 13:58:14
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T-Wolf
For 30 amps you need 10 gauge wire by code even if you split it to 2/4 120 volt plugs you still need to consider the load you will be pulling.
I can check with the builder, but I am sure they did it according to code. I am not sure if it is 10 gauge or 12 gauge. I will get in touch with the electrician to discuss this and post what we are doing.
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kevinc313
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/03 18:41:28
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Grey_Beard I am getting ready to do a number of new builds. I recently built a new house. In the office I had asked for two dedicated circuits for my PCs. They installed two 30AMP circuits each with a NEMA 14-30P plug, just like for an electric dryer. I am looking at either an adapter or a new plug. I can order a UPS with a NEMA L5-30R plug for the wall but I am concerned about replacing the receptacles with those. Can I do two on them in that outlet? I also have a couple of standard NEMA 5-15 plugs on my current UPS units. Would like to use what I got but want to take advantage of the voltage and amps these dedicated circuits allow me. If I replace with single or dual L5-30R, I will still need an adapter for the regular 5-15 or 5-20 plugs. I know enough to be dangerous, but know when to ask for advice.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Let me know if you need pictures.
Hope you don't have a live 14-30P plug sticking out of the wall, that would be lethal. LOL. What you have is a 14-30R, as below, it should be wired with 10/3 romex for 30 amp service, each line goes to a side of the 2 pole 30 amp breaker: You could: - Make a 14-30P (240V) to two L5-30R (120V) adapter, wired to one line each and sharing neutral/ground. This should actually work just fine, plug in your L5-30R UPS to them. IMHO everything is legit and rated properly. - Make a 14-30P (240V) to two 5-15R (120V) or 5-20R adapter, wired to one line each and sharing neutral/ground. This would allow you to use a standard UPS, but is a bit unsafe because the receptacles are not rated for 30 amp. You could swap the breaker to two standard 15 amp or 20 amp breakers, would not be to code. - Replace each outlet/breaker with a pair of 5-15R and 15A breakers (or 5-20R / 20A, or 30A stuff), I'm thinking this would work on the 10/3 romex, this is what everyone is saying. - Do whatever the electrician suggests. EDIT: Found what is the equivalent to my first option, except a L14-30P. You could wack off the L14-30 and replace it with 14-30P, or someone might make a 14-30P version. https://www.corddepot.com...30p-2l5-30r-y-adapter/ Source: Someone who gets paid to make occasionally sketchy stuff with electrical stuff.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2020/06/03 19:43:39
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ty_ger07
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/03 20:02:22
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Grey_Beard Why I have asked for advice is that these are 220/230V circuits and I have 110V units.
You can still chop the end off your 120v cord, install the NEMA L14-30P plug on the end, and just choose to wire only the X or only the Y (I mean you only have 3 wires in your 120v cord anyway, so it's not like you could anyway as long as you connect the neutral and ground wire properly). That will give you 120v to your load and plug into the wall without modifying anything in the wall or circuit breaker panel, and everything will still be up to code, except for maybe not your modified cord. Is there code against using a NEMA L14-30P for a 120v load? There shouldn't be. I mean, your dryer probably has 120v components inside, so it's not like the NEMA L14-30P plug is required to always be equally loaded or anything. I personally would NOT install the 120v outlets in the wall. You could, but then you have to change your breakers too since you can't (I don't think) buy a 30 amp 120v outlet. Why change your house's breakers or wiring or outlets? It's already up to code, right? Why ruin that? I would focus on the end that is affected by your application. I think that there are more than one way that you can still use your existing 240v outlets.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/06/03 20:08:03
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kevinc313
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/04 05:50:05
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ty_ger07
Grey_Beard Why I have asked for advice is that these are 220/230V circuits and I have 110V units.
You can still chop the end off your 120v cord, install the NEMA L14-30P plug on the end, and just choose to wire only the X or only the Y (I mean you only have 3 wires in your 120v cord anyway, so it's not like you could anyway as long as you connect the neutral and ground wire properly). That will give you 120v to your load and plug into the wall without modifying anything in the wall or circuit breaker panel, and everything will still be up to code, except for maybe not your modified cord. Is there code against using a NEMA L14-30P for a 120v load? There shouldn't be. I mean, your dryer probably has 120v components inside, so it's not like the NEMA L14-30P plug is required to always be equally loaded or anything. I personally would NOT install the 120v outlets in the wall. You could, but then you have to change your breakers too since you can't (I don't think) buy a 30 amp 120v outlet. Why change your house's breakers or wiring or outlets? It's already up to code, right? Why ruin that? I would focus on the end that is affected by your application. I think that there are more than one way that you can still use your existing 240v outlets.
L5-30R is 120V 30A. What you're saying about using half a L14-30P plug is a OK idea, it's electrically the same as half my option 2. Most UPS have circuit breakers built in, so maybe it's not that sketchy to use on the 30A circuit, just keep in mind the UPS breaker now becomes the weakest link.
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/04 12:11:54
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kevinc313
Grey_Beard I am getting ready to do a number of new builds. I recently built a new house. In the office I had asked for two dedicated circuits for my PCs. They installed two 30AMP circuits each with a NEMA 14-30P plug, just like for an electric dryer. I am looking at either an adapter or a new plug. I can order a UPS with a NEMA L5-30R plug for the wall but I am concerned about replacing the receptacles with those. Can I do two on them in that outlet? I also have a couple of standard NEMA 5-15 plugs on my current UPS units. Would like to use what I got but want to take advantage of the voltage and amps these dedicated circuits allow me. If I replace with single or dual L5-30R, I will still need an adapter for the regular 5-15 or 5-20 plugs. I know enough to be dangerous, but know when to ask for advice.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Let me know if you need pictures.
Hope you don't have a live 14-30P plug sticking out of the wall, that would be lethal. LOL. What you have is a 14-30R, as below, it should be wired with 10/3 romex for 30 amp service, each line goes to a side of the 2 pole 30 amp breaker:
You could: - Make a 14-30P (240V) to two L5-30R (120V) adapter, wired to one line each and sharing neutral/ground. This should actually work just fine, plug in your L5-30R UPS to them. IMHO everything is legit and rated properly. - Make a 14-30P (240V) to two 5-15R (120V) or 5-20R adapter, wired to one line each and sharing neutral/ground. This would allow you to use a standard UPS, but is a bit unsafe because the receptacles are not rated for 30 amp. You could swap the breaker to two standard 15 amp or 20 amp breakers, would not be to code. - Replace each outlet/breaker with a pair of 5-15R and 15A breakers (or 5-20R / 20A, or 30A stuff), I'm thinking this would work on the 10/3 romex, this is what everyone is saying. - Do whatever the electrician suggests. EDIT: Found what is the equivalent to my first option, except a L14-30P. You could wack off the L14-30 and replace it with 14-30P, or someone might make a 14-30P version. https://www.corddepot.com...30p-2l5-30r-y-adapter/
Source: Someone who gets paid to make occasionally sketchy stuff with electrical stuff.
I looked at options similar to this from a place that has these for RV parks, as this one is very similar based in the link. What are the risks using something like this?
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/04 12:18:50
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ty_ger07 You can still chop the end off your 120v cord, install the NEMA L14-30P plug on the end, and just choose to wire only the X or only the Y (I mean you only have 3 wires in your 120v cord anyway, so it's not like you could anyway as long as you connect the neutral and ground wire properly). That will give you 120v to your load and plug into the wall without modifying anything in the wall or circuit breaker panel, and everything will still be up to code, except for maybe not your modified cord. Is there code against using a NEMA L14-30P for a 120v load? There shouldn't be. I mean, your dryer probably has 120v components inside, so it's not like the NEMA L14-30P plug is required to always be equally loaded or anything. I personally would NOT install the 120v outlets in the wall. You could, but then you have to change your breakers too since you can't (I don't think) buy a 30 amp 120v outlet. Why change your house's breakers or wiring or outlets? It's already up to code, right? Why ruin that? I would focus on the end that is affected by your application. I think that there are more than one way that you can still use your existing 240v outlets.
Thanks for the feedback, but I do not like ruining the connection on my current units. It does not seem like a good option, especially if I change in the future. There is no code issue using a higher voltage outlet with a lower voltage item, as long as the AMP pull is with the breaker’s limits. The more I think about it the less I want to change these out, but want to consider all options.
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/04 12:29:18
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kevinc313 L5-30R is 120V 30A. What you're saying about using half a L14-30P plug is a OK idea, it's electrically the same as half my option 2. Most UPS have circuit breakers built in, so maybe it's not that sketchy to use on the 30A circuit, just keep in mind the UPS breaker now becomes the weakest link.
I am comfortable with having the UPS being the weakest link. It’s circuit breaks at 20AMPs or 15AMPs, depending on unit, is just good overall protection. This may be overkill, but I have surge protection at the electric meter, on the breaker box and on the UPS units. In my professional career, albeit not in IT, I have always created multiple redundancy in critical systems, especially around compliance, safety and infrastructure (mainly IT). Are the splitter cords good? That is what precipitated the need for me to ask for this advice. Here is the one I was reviewing - https://www.customavrack.com/products/1322-l14-30-power-cord-plug-adapters.aspx
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Grey_Beard
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/04 12:34:57
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kevinc313
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/04 12:58:13
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kelkel1
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/04 13:12:33
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kevinc313
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Re: Advice from an Electrician
2020/06/04 14:16:04
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