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AnsweredHot!AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28

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atfrico
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/13 08:33:20 (permalink)
Good points for both but clearly states the reviewers that the consoles GPU performance for both xbox and PS equal/better compare to the 2080ti right🤔
Everyone knows that the GPU in PC is better than the consoles? What makes you think this is going to be different?

Ask yourself this question. Why MS or Sony did not stick with Nvidia if Nvidia was going to release the 300 series that will perform better than AMD?😮

Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags!
 The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. When you abuse it, it reverses on you and it hurts you.The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
#31
Xavier Zepherious
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/13 15:28:01 (permalink)
MS and sony want Cheap chips because console market requires cheap consoles for people who want cheap solution
 
bottom line AMD sells the chips for almost break even - - at first it was at a loss at least until yields got better and TSMC prices got better 
driver development takes moola - so support eats up what little $$$ you made on the sales to the console makers
 
Nvidia knew that - it wanted a certain amount to pay for some profit $$$ and driver support- so they basically gave up courting the console makers when AMD bid too low
 
 
AMD need the sales to convince shareholders they are making some ground.....really? they lost ground just look at sales numbers
 
 
This won't get any better with INTEL entering the game...maybe INTEL looks to steal Console maker numbers
 


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atfrico
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/13 20:56:11 (permalink)
Unlike you and others i am optimistic about what's coming. I dont go by rumors just facts.
If the combination of both CPU and GPU for the consoles looks promising so is the GPU soon to be released.
If you think about it Nvidia is taking risks and going all out with acquisitions and providing performance for the price of which is not suitable for all especially of how the economic situation for some are at the moment.
You say AMD is hurting...we shall see when AMD releases NAVI with better memory size at a lower price. Because of AMD, Nvidia will be adjusting their prices yet again, watch.😼

Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags!
 The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. When you abuse it, it reverses on you and it hurts you.The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
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vegajf51
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/14 09:40:48 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious
MS and sony want Cheap chips because console market requires cheap consoles for people who want cheap solution
 
bottom line AMD sells the chips for almost break even - - at first it was at a loss at least until yields got better and TSMC prices got better 
driver development takes moola - so support eats up what little $$$ you made on the sales to the console makers
 
Nvidia knew that - it wanted a certain amount to pay for some profit $$$ and driver support- so they basically gave up courting the console makers when AMD bid too low
 
 
AMD need the sales to convince shareholders they are making some ground.....really? they lost ground just look at sales numbers
 
 
This won't get any better with INTEL entering the game...maybe INTEL looks to steal Console maker numbers
 


atfrico
Unlike you and others i am optimistic about what's coming. I dont go by rumors just facts.
If the combination of both CPU and GPU for the consoles looks promising so is the GPU soon to be released.
If you think about it Nvidia is taking risks and going all out with acquisitions and providing performance for the price of which is not suitable for all especially of how the economic situation for some are at the moment.
You say AMD is hurting...we shall see when AMD releases NAVI with better memory size at a lower price. Because of AMD, Nvidia will be adjusting their prices yet again, watch.😼


Basically sums up both your points. LOL

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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/14 16:18:00 (permalink)

 


 https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-begins-its-rx-6000-journey-early-with-cooler-reveal/
 
 
two 8 pins we are looking at big navi
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2020/09/14 16:22:24


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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/14 17:33:01 (permalink)
 
No exhaust out the rear?   ..I'm gonna guess those are just mock-ups so they didn't add that detail.
 

 

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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/14 22:51:17 (permalink)
Buildzoid thinks HBM2.

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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/15 00:45:52 (permalink)
HBM too expensive ...they are using gddr6
 
 
there are chip shortages on the new fab node
 


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atfrico
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/15 21:41:32 (permalink)
vegajf51

Basically sums up both your points. LOL



🤣🤣
Wait a tick did he just🤔
🤣🤣 👍

Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags!
 The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. When you abuse it, it reverses on you and it hurts you.The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
#39
rjohnson11
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/15 22:35:46 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious
HBM too expensive ...they are using gddr6
 
 
there are chip shortages on the new fab node
 


Based on the rumors I've been hearing TSMC is having better success with their wafer production than Samsung is having with their NVIDIA wafer production. 

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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/15 23:48:06 (permalink)
10nm++ has less problems than 7nm - DUV or EUV
yields are more of a problem at 7nm...but on a side note 5nm is better at yeilds
 
Scarcity of Ryzen laptop chips is possibly due to TSMC yield issue?
 
According to Bloomberg: Sony Cuts PlayStation 5 Forecast by 4 Million

 
 due to production yields as low as 50% for its SOC. Zen2, Zen3, RDNA and RDNA2 are all fabricated using TSMC's 7nm node
 
https://www.anandtech.com...on-defect-rates-for-n5
 
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2020/09/15 23:52:12


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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/16 13:08:36 (permalink)
Nereus
 
No exhaust out the rear?   ..I'm gonna guess those are just mock-ups so they didn't add that detail.
 

 


thats real
 
real pic posted at vidcardz

 
no vents out the back ...all the heat stays in the case
 


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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/16 18:32:36 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious
Nereus
No exhaust out the rear?   ..I'm gonna guess those are just mock-ups so they didn't add that detail.


thats real
real pic posted at vidcardz

no vents out the back ...all the heat stays in the case

Oh dear, that's not smart.
 
 

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ty_ger07
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/16 18:41:03 (permalink)
Nereus
Xavier Zepherious
Nereus
No exhaust out the rear?   ..I'm gonna guess those are just mock-ups so they didn't add that detail.


thats real
real pic posted at vidcardz

no vents out the back ...all the heat stays in the case

Oh dear, that's not smart.
 
 


I don't know why Xav insists in splitting up the same topic into multiple threads.
 
Anyways, like Scarlet said:
the_Scarlet_one
To be fair, the vented rear slot on any card with length wise heat pipes and fins Never vent out of the back. It was an optical illusion. Don’t fall for that.

That really makes sense.  The rear vent would do nothing with a wall of fins running parallel to it blocking the opening.
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/16 18:50:15 (permalink)
ty_ger07
Nereus
Xavier Zepherious
Nereus
No exhaust out the rear?   ..I'm gonna guess those are just mock-ups so they didn't add that detail.

thats real
real pic posted at vidcardz
no vents out the back ...all the heat stays in the case

Oh dear, that's not smart.

I don't know why Xav insists in splitting up the same topic into multiple threads.
Anyways, like Scarlet said:
the_Scarlet_one
To be fair, the vented rear slot on any card with length wise heat pipes and fins Never vent out of the back. It was an optical illusion. Don’t fall for that.

That really makes sense.  The rear vent would do nothing with a wall of fins running parallel to it blocking the opening.

Some hot air still would, but I understand what you mean - most would be forced out the sides if all the fins were running across the width of the card. Best block that thing off so absolutely nothing gets out, just to be sure. :D  Apparently GPU makers don't give a flying fork about the rest of our builds, sadly. Would make more sense to angle some of the fins to direct at least some of the heat out of the case, but in this case, nope.


 
post edited by Nereus - 2020/09/16 18:52:48

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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/17 09:50:28 (permalink)
I wonder if venting the air straight up is more efficient than having it try to blow it out the back of the card/case. I know that'll stink for CPU temps but it may be more efficient for the card itself... 


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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/17 10:34:08 (permalink)
We'll have to see what the reviewers say about it......  It doesn't seem like the best idea to me, but I'm no air/ fluid dynamics master .

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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/17 11:28:18 (permalink)
The air is coming out from the grill 🤔 that way the hot air comes a few degrees lower which in turn it will not exhaust hot air into ur case, ye 😼

Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags!
 The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. When you abuse it, it reverses on you and it hurts you.The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
#48
Xavier Zepherious
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/17 16:46:36 (permalink)
in a vertical mount - rather than standard pcie mounting
the card will expel hot air upwards and take cool air from the side of case where the case glass is - unless you have an open air case - not the greatestt but hey it works - better if you can do it a bottom of case
 
 
in regular mount the hot air hits the side of the case expelling hot air upward and downward - thus filling the intake with some hotter air
this can be rectified by having lot sof airflow from fans at bottom of case
 
 
yes they could have made the cooler differently to expel air out the back - 
if Nvidia can figure out a better way to do it then so can they
 
i just think AIBs and AMD want the cheaper solutions rather than a more expensive way to do it
 
Im just thinking a hoover vacumn hoses might be the future both intake and exit airflow
or go with watercooling all the way
 
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2020/09/17 16:53:16


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#49
ty_ger07
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/17 18:27:57 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious
yes they could have made the cooler differently to expel air out the back - 
if Nvidia can figure out a better way to do it then so can they
 
i just think AIBs and AMD want the cheaper solutions rather than a more expensive way to do it

NVIDIA AIBs make it the same way. So don't point too many fingers. Ah hem!... ... (evga and many others)...

Buildzoid had a recent video explaining why blower heatsinks suck (figuratively). It was good stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRm6N1A74oE&t=10m06s
It was actually pretty obvious, but I never considered the problem with the length of the fins in a blower card.  Watch the link above starting at 10m 06sec to get down to the crux of the problem with your typical blower heatsink.

Basically, there is no good way to make a blower card that will outperform an axial card, unless you do it like NVIDIA did with a super short length of blower fins on the latest FE cards. That's the only instance which really makes sense for making it blow out the back of the card. NVIDIA made the FE cards basically a blower and axial heatsink hybrid.

The AIBs probably don't because it is complicated and more expensive. But who knows, maybe they will start doing it now that NVIDIA demonstrated a method. Traditionally, you have straight heatpipes running the length of the card, and the heatsink fins are just pressed on in a stack onto the heatpipes.  This makes very easy assembly of a bunch of identical fins, and thus not expensive to mass produce and assemble.  Because the heatsink fins have to be perpendicular to the heatpipes and thus perpendicular to the length of the card, the back of the card is blocked by the parallel row of fins.  The only way to make the fins run perpendicular to the back of the card and act as a decent rear exhaust is if the heatpipes make a 90 degree turn somewhere and that would make assembly much more difficult and expensive (because you couldn't just press the whole quantity of heatsink fins onto a long straight heatpipe in one go).
NVIDIA got around this problem by making the back portion a vapor chamber.  ... But that isn't exactly an inexpensive method of manufacture.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/09/17 19:46:27
#50
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/17 23:55:42 (permalink)
Actually this might not be a bad idea.  If they can create a solid wind tunnel effect and exhaust that air to the top of the GPU, you might see some decent temps.  Time will tell.

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#51
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/18 21:50:43 (permalink)
it seems a AIB partner can do blower design even on a  RTX3090
 

GIGABYTE outs GeForce RTX 3090 with blower-type fan


 

 
https://videocardz.com/newz/gigbyte-geforce-rtx-3090-turbo-is-the-first-ampere-blower-type-design
 
 
so yeah i can be done
 
so why put the heat back in case??? where some goes toward the intake
 


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#52
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/19 05:05:11 (permalink)
That thing is going to be terrible. Niche, useful for some, but objectively bad. Watch the video I linked to above. It's called turbo because it will be as loud as a turbo.

Xav
so why put the heat back in case??? where some goes toward the intake

Every axial cooler does. Get off your high horse.
You act like you are opposed to AMD not using a blower cooler, but if AMD did use yet another blower cooler, you would have been opposed to it as well. You are being a contrarian; finding a reason to complain.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/09/19 05:52:06
#53
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/19 05:21:37 (permalink)
Has anyone compared the heat differences inside the case regarding over-all in-case temps, rise in CPU temps and other components, with an axial cooler vs a blower style?
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/19 05:54:18 (permalink)
529th
Has anyone compared the heat differences inside the case regarding over-all in-case temps, rise in CPU temps and other components, with an axial cooler vs a blower style?

It goes without saying. A blower card of the same wattage will have a cooler inside-case temperature compared to a axial cooler. It is obvious. But a blower cooler performs significantly worse than an axial cooler.
With plenty of case airflow, the difference between the two case temperatures is insignificant, but the difference in vide9 card temperature is significant.
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/19 06:20:04 (permalink)
1st off a blower can do just as well as axial
it requires equivalent surface area and air flow to an axial... thats all
 
axial usually do better because the card and heatsink are larger - - ie more surface area and more airflow
 
gigabytes is too thin - - id rather have them make it a 3 slot card and put some fans on it
 
the only issue is with 1 fan is noise (because to get the same air flow you have to have the fans screem)
had Gigabyte provided more fans and thicker(more surface area) fins there would be practically no difference  -in fact it be cooler - or should be because it taking cooler air all the time
the only other issue is one side is hotter than the other side - but that can be fixed with an extra fan or two ...adding cooler air to the other side
 
cooling is about airflow , surface area and air intake temp
 
which is why i said maybe the future is using venting - both intake and exhaust hoses
 
Im not against AMD because im also complaining about Nvidia cards that put heat back in case as well
 
go stick your own bias somewhere else
 
1/2 the CPU's and GPUs at my home are AMD(thats multiple of both...ie 6 desktops...no lappies)..... can you boast using both....i doubt it
 
in fact id rather watercool and really control the temps
 
you just don't realize that some people don't necessarily have great airflow in a case and an axial putting heat back in is not necessarily a great thing
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2020/09/19 06:24:23


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#56
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/19 06:53:24 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious
1st off a blower can do just as well as axial
it requires equivalent surface area and air flow to an axial... thats all

Nope.

A blower card needs WAY more airflow to achieve the same cooling as an axial card, because a blower heatsink is less efficient. See the video I linked to. A blower cooler can't be less efficient and have the same cooling performance. Somethings gotta give.
Stopped reading the rest of your reply, because your premise was wrong from the start.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/09/19 07:56:28
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knightsilver
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/19 10:32:54 (permalink)
Id like to see a 3slot blower gpu done right.  But 350W gpu's, come on this isnt 2005, maybe with nvidia pushing a standard gpu 12pin, IMOO 250W or less, even on highend gpus should be enough.
 
Im waiting for RDNA2, hope the 6090 or what ever its called can do rtx2080Ti and better at lower cost than the overly priced green brand.... Been extreamly happy with my Ryzen2 cpu/msi x570-pro setup...

 
 
#58
Xavier Zepherious
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/19 13:06:22 (permalink)
ty_ger07
Xavier Zepherious
1st off a blower can do just as well as axial
it requires equivalent surface area and air flow to an axial... thats all

Nope.

A blower card needs WAY more airflow to achieve the same cooling as an axial card, because a blower heatsink is less efficient. See the video I linked to. A blower cooler can't be less efficient and have the same cooling performance. Somethings gotta give.
Stopped reading the rest of your reply, because your premise was wrong from the start.

I see you are so full of it
 
just because one site did a review doesn't make it a fact nor does that mean axial is better than blower
 
just that blowers kinda suck because they need to be redesigned
they need more airflow because the fins are small because they kept it thin where axial is usually a wider card - thus larger fins and usually more fans
 
first that is BS - surface area and airflow determine cooling ..its the same as liquid cooling...it's fluid dynamics... air is a sparse liquid - did you tale fluid dynamic???? id say no
there exist a issue with how close the fins are and air molecules so pushing air thru tight channels is not efficient(drag coefficient) - this is alleviated with wider  spacing and more fans
 
like i said typical blower cards are thin and have 1 fan - so the cooler is smaller...so it's typically not as good as axial .where the axial is wider and has more fans
one other issue if hot air is moved to hotter area - so one side of card cooled more than other that can also be alleviated with more fans
 
if someone decided to put together a decent air blower  it would match 
again redesigning coolers - Nvidia did a redesign - id like to see AMD do the same rather than trudge thru and do everything the old way
- at that rate we be sitting with EGA graphics - without innovation ..lets not innovate and keep doing things the old way....
 
all we can hope is people push enough airflow to keep the air moving upward
 
push the technology.... see where it goes
 
next thing you will push is pumpless water vapor cooler
where is that by the way - seems to be lost as a dead product
 
anyways this is way too off topic 


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#59
kram36
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Re: AMD to introduce Zen3 on October 8, Radeon RX 6000 series on October 28 2020/09/19 13:53:02 (permalink)
knightsilver
Id like to see a 3slot blower gpu done right.  But 350W gpu's, come on this isnt 2005, maybe with nvidia pushing a standard gpu 12pin, IMOO 250W or less, even on highend gpus should be enough.
 
Im waiting for RDNA2, hope the 6090 or what ever its called can do rtx2080Ti and better at lower cost than the overly priced green brand.... Been extreamly happy with my Ryzen2 cpu/msi x570-pro setup...


You're expecting an AMD GPU to perform at the same level as a 2080 Ti and use less power? Or are you just hoping AMD offers a card with 2080 Ti performance at a lower purchasing price?
 
Just a little info for ya. Nvidia has a RTX 3070 coming out that is a 220w card, has 2080 Ti performance and is only $500.

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