bigc4200
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/13 13:23:57
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kram36
bigc4200
But nvidia rushed it and kinda sucks still ..
It sucks to you because you don't have a card capable of Ray Tracing.
atfrico
So let me get this straight, you think the consumers don't know that the Radeon GPUs being released dont have Ray Tracing? They do and its up to them to decide.
No, I said it's sad how AMD fans are trying to act like Ray Tracing is nothing. AMD is so far behind Nvidia in tech it's silly. For $700, give me the card that has all the tech and that isn't going to AMD.
Wow sucks to be me https://www.3dmark.com/pr/14120 check that out.. really sucks to be me.. I like both company's and hate them both … But I call it like I see it.... So great my port royal makes me pat myself on back good job oc lol.. Now what again play the only game I can with ray tracing bfv … it it plays better but less rtx effects shadows leaves blowing... I said it will be good some day I have amd in my other computer 64 and will buy a new vega 2 if oc and uv good...vega 64 reference build is great quality hands down... I am scared my 2080 ti will die... Should have been 999.00 launch with titan 1500.00 1080 ti was great card by the way... And what does that mean I don't have a card capable to play?? do you mean there is nothing with working besides the 1 game we can all guess that's not final fantasy... although some live that life... puzzled did you finish reading my post cuz I only comment when I fully read what someone says... Geeze
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panzlock
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/14 07:55:20
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atfrico
So let me get this straight, you think the consumers don't know that the Radeon GPUs being released dont have Ray Tracing? They do and its up to them to decide.
You say you are embarrassed for some people in here, i am embarrassed for those who own the Nvidia over priced tag of GPUs and hide the fact that the RTX Cards are dying like a fail tech from the 20th century.....instead of telling the truth and coming out with facts, why don't you post a thread about the expensive GPUs failing like a cheap made tech?
As far as per the games go, you are telling me i need to purchase these games to enjoy Ray Tracing....lol. Instead of patching the existing game with Ray Tracing for freaking free, Nvidia wants you to play/pay for new games.....funny isn't instead of just giving you a % off from those game since you already pay/still paying premium prices for those fail/die GPUs.
Again AMD is helping the market by creating competition, Ray Tracing or not, AMD is giving Nvidia a reason to reduce its RTX GPUs prices. It is very funny the GPUs are not even 6 months old and some people are already selling theirs....lmao. That says many things.
oh and let me say this one more time, you are paying high prices for a tech that's not a new tech, just a refresh tech said by the video below plus DDR6 and that is it.
AMD offers NOT RAY TRACING, like you said right? more memory plus is HBM2, 7mm size die GPU (lets see if they will overheat and die like the cheap size 12mm from Nvidia) yet an affordable price of $700?
Microsoft already patch the DX12 with RT extensions, it is up to the developers and Nvidia and AMD to enforce it, period
You got that straight. You might want to read his other posts so you are aware of who you are actually dealing with. In the future all games will feature RT but for now this list is short (however distinguished it may be). This is why I feel NVIDIA rushed this release. It's good for any company to push the envelope, otherwise we wouldn't have successfully navigate the Challenger Deep, sent men to the moon and discovered drugs that alleviate cramps during a female's menstrual cycle (think about how many lives that last one saved). Waiting a while longer would have saved Nvidia some heartache. Instead they reverse tactics and assault their demographic with "It just works". AMD shouldn't be in the business to lower prices of Nvidia and Intel products. They should be providing consumers with viable alternatives. This means they have to be competitive in some way or risk benefiting the competitions customer base. AMD will have another good compute card, just like Vega. And if their specs play out it will compete. That being said, ray tracing is the future and AMD will be behind in the next round. By how much only time will tell. On top of it all, Intel will enter the GPU fray in the next year or so, pushing the competitive edge even further.
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atfrico
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/14 15:52:33
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panzlock
atfrico
So let me get this straight, you think the consumers don't know that the Radeon GPUs being released dont have Ray Tracing? They do and its up to them to decide.
You say you are embarrassed for some people in here, i am embarrassed for those who own the Nvidia over priced tag of GPUs and hide the fact that the RTX Cards are dying like a fail tech from the 20th century.....instead of telling the truth and coming out with facts, why don't you post a thread about the expensive GPUs failing like a cheap made tech?
As far as per the games go, you are telling me i need to purchase these games to enjoy Ray Tracing....lol. Instead of patching the existing game with Ray Tracing for freaking free, Nvidia wants you to play/pay for new games.....funny isn't instead of just giving you a % off from those game since you already pay/still paying premium prices for those fail/die GPUs.
Again AMD is helping the market by creating competition, Ray Tracing or not, AMD is giving Nvidia a reason to reduce its RTX GPUs prices. It is very funny the GPUs are not even 6 months old and some people are already selling theirs....lmao. That says many things.
oh and let me say this one more time, you are paying high prices for a tech that's not a new tech, just a refresh tech said by the video below plus DDR6 and that is it.
AMD offers NOT RAY TRACING, like you said right? more memory plus is HBM2, 7mm size die GPU (lets see if they will overheat and die like the cheap size 12mm from Nvidia) yet an affordable price of $700?
Microsoft already patch the DX12 with RT extensions, it is up to the developers and Nvidia and AMD to enforce it, period
You got that straight.
You might want to read his other posts so you are aware of who you are actually dealing with.
In the future all games will feature RT but for now this list is short (however distinguished it may be). This is why I feel NVIDIA rushed this release. It's good for any company to push the envelope, otherwise we wouldn't have successfully navigate the Challenger Deep, sent men to the moon and discovered drugs that alleviate cramps during a female's menstrual cycle (think about how many lives that last one saved). Waiting a while longer would have saved Nvidia some heartache. Instead they reverse tactics and assault their demographic with "It just works".
AMD shouldn't be in the business to lower prices of Nvidia and Intel products. They should be providing consumers with viable alternatives. This means they have to be competitive in some way or risk benefiting the competitions customer base.
AMD will have another good compute card, just like Vega. And if their specs play out it will compete.
That being said, ray tracing is the future and AMD will be behind in the next round. By how much only time will tell. On top of it all, Intel will enter the GPU fray in the next year or so, pushing the competitive edge even further.
Well said  . At least i am not the only one who keeps an open mind about things 
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Brad_Hawthorne
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/14 16:08:35
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panzlock
In the future all games will feature RT but for now this list is short (however distinguished it may be). This is why I feel NVIDIA rushed this release. It's good for any company to push the envelope, otherwise we wouldn't have successfully navigate the Challenger Deep, sent men to the moon and discovered drugs that alleviate cramps during a female's menstrual cycle (think about how many lives that last one saved). Waiting a while longer would have saved Nvidia some heartache. Instead they reverse tactics and assault their demographic with "It just works".
I find this a bit misguided and silly. We don't even properly use DirectX 12 after 5 years of adoption, never mind a future in which DXR is in "all future games". My statement, put into context has nothing to do with Nvidia or AMD, but rather developer adoption of Microsoft DXR and DX12 render pipeline development. The problem with futurists, is they are so binary in their thought process. A futurist only sees one idealistic future. Instead the future is much more pragmatic and branches in multiple different directions. DXR is a tool in the toolbox for devs, not the only tool. And certainly, not the tool that will be used in "all future games".
post edited by Brad_Hawthorne - 2019/01/14 16:10:43
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09973
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/15 00:28:05
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All I can say is despite all the other hoopla in between RT. This is important to the survival and adoption of RT in the gaming world if AMD also adopts it. This makes it more likely that AAA devs will look into getting RT added into "NEW" games. How likely is this in reality ..... well only time will tell.
As long as your popular enough, you can get away with anything.
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panzlock
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/15 07:42:29
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Brad_Hawthorne
I find this a bit misguided and silly. We don't even properly use DirectX 12 after 5 years of adoption, never mind a future in which DXR is in "all future games". My statement, put into context has nothing to do with Nvidia or AMD, but rather developer adoption of Microsoft DXR and DX12 render pipeline development. The problem with futurists, is they are so binary in their thought process. A futurist only sees one idealistic future. Instead the future is much more pragmatic and branches in multiple different directions. DXR is a tool in the toolbox for devs, not the only tool. And certainly, not the tool that will be used in "all future games".
When referring to the future all predictions most likely sound "silly and misguided". But the fact remains. Ray tracing is a tool which has been adopted and may become the new standard for PC gaming. Much like DX12. Maybe my comment sounds premature regarding the adoption of RT by all game developers, but that doesn't make it implausible. How are we not utilizing DX12 properly? Or did you mean the full potential of DX12 has not yet been exploited? I'm not sure what you mean by your "futurist" comment. The possibility of multitudinous options does not mean all avenues will be explored, at least not simultaneously. RT is a solid foundation moving forward and it will be adopted and pushed to maturity. THEN I believe they will move onto something new. I do also hold the possibility that I am wrong and a new innovation will be moved to the forefront. I hold no illusions about technological advances or business practices.
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MadmanRB
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/15 10:41:48
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Well there is one thing I hope people wont get wrong here and think Navi will now include ray tracing.
It wont, sure its been delayed but not enough time here to add in ray tracing tech.
Probably will be on whatever happens after Navi.
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seth89
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/15 18:23:17
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Alright kids, agree to disagree.
RT is the future and so is PhysX and Gsync.
State your opinion and move on, when you start to include jabs and personal attacks its not fun anymore (save that junk for Tom’sHardware).
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MadmanRB
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/15 18:49:19
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seth89
Alright kids, agree to disagree.
RT is the future and so is PhysX and Gsync.
State your opinion and move on, when you start to include jabs and personal attacks its not fun anymore (save that junk for Tom’sHardware).
Maybe Ray tracing and yes nvidia made PhysX open source but Gsync the future? Considering that even if Nvidia partially supports freesync Gsync itself still remains out of reach for the average consumer due to its high uptake costs. Even getting a freesync monitor doesnt help as nvidia being the jerks they are have limited the compatibility to a mere handful of monitors. True there are a few that are rather cheap like the XFA240 but note its a 1080p monitor. Good luck finding a decently price 1440p with freesync that is compatible as most of those are in the $400-500 price range I only have mine as i actually had the money for it and I needed a new monitor, otherwise i would still be rocking my old Asus Dual GTX 1060 and my LG 24GM77 monitor
post edited by MadmanRB - 2019/01/15 18:58:56
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NazcaC2
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/17 08:54:25
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People who discredit RT obviously have no idea how important it is to the industry. For people like me, who remembers how long one ray traced scene (frame) actually took to render a few years ago on the NVIDIA 400 Series on the car demo. Till now, more than 100 times faster. Premature? Yes. Expectations of gamers? 50/50. If you get past where we are now, you should be more lenient on frame rate. It will get better and not bad for first gen hardware ray tracing. Those of us who do realize the importance of RT, eliminating the fine line between a game that still visually looks like a cartoon versus reality is a big deal. Games no longer will look like cartoons, no matter how many triangles and how great the graphics look. Games have looked like cartoons since the beginning. Ray tracing is a game changer, big time. Sorry, not sorry.
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MadmanRB
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/17 09:09:38
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NazcaC2
People who discredit RT obviously have no idea how important it is to the industry. For people like me, who remembers how long one ray traced scene (frame) actually took to render a few years ago on the NVIDIA 400 Series on the car demo. Till now, more than 100 times faster. Premature? Yes. Expectations of gamers? 50/50. If you get past where we are now, you should be more lenient on frame rate. It will get better and not bad for first gen hardware ray tracing. Those of us who do realize the importance of RT, eliminating the fine line between a game that still visually looks like a cartoon versus reality is a big deal. Games no longer will look like cartoons, no matter how many triangles and how great the graphics look. Games have looked like cartoons since the beginning. Ray tracing is a game changer, big time. Sorry, not sorry.
My issue is right now the price you pay for Ray tracing is quite steep and the matter of right now as of 2019 only a handful of games support it. As I said Ray tracing is indeed a feature we need to look forward to, but its certainly going to take time for it to catch on.
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panzlock
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/17 10:02:55
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NazcaC2
People who discredit RT obviously have no idea how important it is to the industry. For people like me, who remembers how long one ray traced scene (frame) actually took to render a few years ago on the NVIDIA 400 Series on the car demo. Till now, more than 100 times faster. Premature? Yes. Expectations of gamers? 50/50. If you get past where we are now, you should be more lenient on frame rate. It will get better and not bad for first gen hardware ray tracing. Those of us who do realize the importance of RT, eliminating the fine line between a game that still visually looks like a cartoon versus reality is a big deal. Games no longer will look like cartoons, no matter how many triangles and how great the graphics look. Games have looked like cartoons since the beginning. Ray tracing is a game changer, big time. Sorry, not sorry.
I think you're missing the context of the discrediting.
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NazcaC2
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/17 10:22:15
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panzlock
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/17 10:41:46
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Can you read? Does everything have to be spoon fed to you? Cost. Not enough game support. Insignificant effect in existing games with DXR support (UFD Tech has a video and participants an't tell the difference between DXR off and on). FPS too low with DXR enabled. Plenty of reviews and rhetoric pertaining to RT, even on this forum.
Nobody should be ragging on the tech. The problem is how it's being implemented. Rushed and unwanted at this price.
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NazcaC2
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/17 10:46:49
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Wow, that's why I refrain from writing here much. Because if so, everything people get offended by, you get talked back by the same group of people. Learn communication skills, seriously. Lol, game support is a given. The cards just came out recently. People above prefer HBM2 over RT. FPS-wise, see my previous post. A technology that otherwise got one frame per minute just a few years ago, 60 FPS is darned fast. Yes can read, Captain Obvious. Cost is a given based on how it can render RT in real-time. Clearly, those people harping on those points didn't think of this. You can't sell a tech ahead of its time for peanuts more than last gen tech.
post edited by NazcaC2 - 2019/01/17 10:52:26
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NazcaC2
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/17 11:18:06
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My whole point of that large write up was how important it is as a whole. The pros outweigh the cons; but you just saw it as me talking about the tech. You couldn't put two and two together (linear thinking at its finest). Some of us don't care about the drawbacks. I knew you'd see it my way (finally 😏).
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Sajin
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/17 13:20:39
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Lets keep the troll posts to a minimum. Thanks.
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Hoggle
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/17 22:35:09
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I think it really shows why not to get a Radeon VII since clearly it’s not the future.
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kram36
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 02:10:47
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GTXJackBauer
So beautiful and AMD does not currently offer this to it's customers with their next card that isn't even on the market yet. AMD fail city.
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MadmanRB
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 02:55:03
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kram36
GTXJackBauer
So beautiful and AMD does not currently offer this to it's customers with their next card that isn't even on the market yet. AMD fail city.
Enjoy spending $2000 that can only go 30FPS for fancy reflections, some of us are more practical. Again ray tracing may be the future but its a long way off for being commonplace enough to make it affordable. And with only a handful of games supporting ray tracing right now yeah I am not buying into it. You people really need to know the values of practicality and patience. Let AMD go at its own pace too, and personally I will take affordable over fancy effects.
post edited by MadmanRB - 2019/01/18 03:01:11
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BigRat
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 03:14:31
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knightsilver
lets work on the basics first....
Let's start off by maturing the technology, and not releasing it as a marketing ploy. Right now, RT is like Snake Oil; great presentation, great advertising, bad outcome. For real tech enthusiasts like some of the guys around here, we want advancement in technology. Like the use of High-Bandwidth Memory, which AMD hasn't been that successful at pulling it off, and Nvidia putting the "VIP status" pricing on their only HBM-based GPU; the Titan V. The lack of technology advancement but the improvement of gimmicks in technology is the reason why I have been put off at upgrading for some time now.
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MadmanRB
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 03:21:32
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BigRat
knightsilver
lets work on the basics first....
Let's start off by maturing the technology, and not releasing it as a marketing ploy. Right now, RT is like Snake Oil; great presentation, great advertising, bad outcome.
For real tech enthusiasts like some of the guys around here, we want advancement in technology. Like the use of High-Bandwidth Memory, which AMD hasn't been that successful at pulling it off, and Nvidia putting the "VIP status" pricing on their only HBM-based GPU; the Titan V. The lack of technology advancement but the improvement of gimmicks in technology is the reason why I have been put off at upgrading for some time now.
Well the cost factor of HBM is what kind of killed Vegas edge. And I do feel AMD can pull it off.... maybe not with Radeon VII but perhaps with navi.
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kram36
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 03:30:05
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MadmanRB
kram36
GTXJackBauer
So beautiful and AMD does not currently offer this to it's customers with their next card that isn't even on the market yet. AMD fail city.
Enjoy spending $2000 that can only go 30FPS for fancy reflections, some of us are more practical.
Again ray tracing may be the future but its a long way off for being commonplace enough to make it affordable.
And with only a handful of games supporting ray tracing right now yeah I am not buying into it.
You people really need to know the values of practicality and patience.
Let AMD go at its own pace too, and personally I will take affordable over fancy effects.
I see you didn't watch the video or even bother to read the video's description. " RTX at 2K 60fps is unbelievable" At least Nvidia is offering this tech to people who want it. AMD fans that want it will have to go to Nvidia to get it. Nvidia is making AMD look like a joke when AMD's newest card that isn't even on the market yet doesn't offer the same features. Going to be a tough year for AMD's graphics department.
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MadmanRB
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 03:45:26
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Not for those on a budget. Since we dont have a price point on the 1160ti... if its even real. The rtx 2060 is too pricy for budget builds
post edited by MadmanRB - 2019/01/18 03:49:01
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BigRat
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 04:16:37
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kram36
"RTX at 2K 60fps is unbelievable"
I know, just like my 5-6 years old R9 290X 8GB, albeit without the BS Nvidia is giving to us with RTX currently. But that said, RT will one day be mature enough so that it can make a breakout across different markets.
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seth89
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 04:30:31
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BigRat
kram36
"RTX at 2K 60fps is unbelievable"
I know, just like my 5-6 years old R9 290X 8GB, albeit without the BS Nvidia is giving to us with RTX currently.
But that said, RT will one day be mature enough so that it can make a breakout across different markets.
Your statement is true and very reasonable. However, if you just spent 700-1200 on a 144hz-165hz monitor and $1,000+ on a GPU that can't get pass 60-80FPS with RT on then your reply and reasoning to this will look the way it does above. Are you still using the 290X? That was my favorite card after I installed water cooling.
post edited by seth89 - 2019/01/18 09:35:28
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panzlock
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 06:48:47
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In AMD's case, the situation is currently worse than it was when Vega was challenging Pascal. Nvidia will have the lead on new tech implementation which will become standard.
Despite what was a rushed release with a price tag subdued only by the 2060 for the middle market, Nvidia has tested the waters. They're well positioned to counter anything AMD responds with. Experience with the consumer and more importantly the tech which they, I'm certain, are calibrating right now.
Radeon VII is nothing more than a stop gap to Navi. The card should undercut Nvidia's RTX in pricing but HBM2 is expensive. Maybe a cheaper 8GB version would have done the trick, or AMD was aiming for higher compute which is also respectable. But if so...why only 60CU's compared to Vega's 64? And no double-precision floating point due to MI50 cannibalization fears.
AMD is doing a great job with Ryzen. RTG has some work to do.
I suppose when Intel comes out swinging they will have ray tracing at the tip of the spear, as well.
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Brad_Hawthorne
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 07:14:35
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panzlock
I suppose when Intel comes out swinging they will have ray tracing at the tip of the spear, as well.
Doubtful, because the core of Intel discreet video card development is a splinter faction of key members of Radeon dev team. Intel discreet will be AMD version 2.0, not Nvidia version 0.5.
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panzlock
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 07:22:57
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Brad_Hawthorne
Doubtful, because the core of Intel discreet video card development is a splinter faction of key members of Radeon dev team. Intel discreet will be AMD version 2.0, not Nvidia version 0.5.
Good points. I suck at math.
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seth89
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Re: AMD has Ray Tracing GPUs in Development
2019/01/18 09:53:17
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MadmanRB
Well there is one thing I hope people wont get wrong here and think Navi will now include ray tracing.
It wont, sure its been delayed but not enough time here to add in ray tracing tech.
Probably will be on whatever happens after Navi.
We may see it on Navi cards, maybe... I don't think we know enough about Navi just yet. https://www.techspot.com/amp/news/78252-amd-boss-working-important-ray-tracing-tech-shoots.html Kram Nobody is saying RT is not important or that its not the future. People are saying that users purchased a 2000 series card for way tooooo much money without even seeing what ray tracing was. Also that ray tracing rolled out poorly and that there still isn't a lot of support for it currently because it's so new. Nobody who may want to buy a VII is expecting ray tracing or care for it at the moment because it's not a deal breaker yet. Most people don't care for ray tracing just yet because FPS is still way more important than eye candy at the end of the day, especially on multi players games. We all get the big deal about ray tracing and we all can't wait for it to be adopted by all/most games, however its current state is just a beta run that the consumer had to shell out for ( and we don't know how well the 2000 series will perform ray tracing as it matures). VII isn't for the average person, its for the diehard AMD fan. AMD buyers are normally looking for budget parts and not $700 cards for a system with a $800 max budget. We get it and I think you're missing the point.
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