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Hot!AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month

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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/11 21:18:02 (permalink)
Am I disappointed that I bought a 1080Ti not long ago... no, am I disappointed that I haven't bought AMD anything in over a decade... nope.

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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/12 13:24:28 (permalink)
and more bad news
 
The PC Games Hardwarenow also delivers a test of the Radeon Vega Frontier Edition , which can be particularly bright with its detailed views. For example, the fill rate tests ("Fillrates" in the Beyond3D suite) suggest that the " Draw Stream Binning Rasterizer " promised with the Vega architecture is currently not active, in confirmation of other tests. The "Effective Texture Bandwith" In the Beyond3D suite) then point to significant problems with the available memory bandwidth - which is even considerably below (255 GB / sec) the Radeon R9 Fury X (350 GB / sec), which is inefficient in this question. This should also explain the non-optimal chip clock scaling, which has recently been determined - and which can also be seen again in the PCGH: between stock performance (boost at between 1348 and 1440 MHz) and a 1600 MHz chip clock ( Without throttling) fixed map is at ~ 15% multipact only + 10% more performance.
 
https://www.3dcenter.org/news/hardware-und-nachrichten-links-des-11-juli-2017 
 
 
 
 
So it seems we have hardware issues causing the problems and it may take months or even a year to fix it
notice the card only has 1/2 the bandwidth as advertised
 
 
first reveal in a few days from now
 
 
then you hear this

Nvidia Volta Gaming GPUs To Feature 5376 CUDA Cores, Nvidia Disclose Information About Their 12 nm FFT Secret Weapon

AMD Vega GPUs are going to be coming out by August this year and they will not only be competing with the Nvidia GTX 10 series GPUs that are based on the Pascal architecture but also with the upcoming Nvidia Volta gaming GPUs.
https://segmentnext.com/2...dia-volta-gaming-gpus/
 
 
to go directly up against Vega RX 
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2017/07/12 15:01:53

 
   


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#32
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/15 10:24:38 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious
not yet.... i wish
 
another thing i hear was AMD wasn't expect pascal to do that good (with silicon/design) and were not expecting the gtx1080ti either
so they were caught a little off guard and have been trying to improve vega for months(almost 1 yr considering they had silicon in aug last year) - that why the 3 steppings but also hearing rumors of bug in chip 
but have to release... due to a FIXED RELEASE DATE for the silicon they have now for investors/sharholders 
 
so they have no choice to go now - even with Vega RX  or have egg on their face from shareholders/investors 
 
 
Lets face it... AMD needs to get bought out by someone with deep pockets - you can't design anything let alone mega software without deep pockets anymore
 
300MB drivers you need a lot of programmers for that just think.... 100 thousand lines of code for 300 programmers (that 10 bytes of code for each line of code- think machine code here)
you need serious staff to get things done
 


Maybe they didn't expected Pascal to be such good but not expecting a 470mm2 from NVIDIA sound pretty naive, if they didn't expect something was NVIDIA rolling out the entire lineup so fast, especially the GTX 1060 which may have pushed AMD to rush the release of the RX480
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/15 10:43:04 (permalink)
seth89
I'm very interested in the HBCC (High Bandwidth Cache Controller), I really want to see what this is all about. Will I be tethering a SSD to a Vega card as a crazy cache system? Will it work out of the box or will it need to be supported by a game?

Hate them or love them they always make a cool product and keep things interesting.

HBCC looks more a magic marketing word than something really useful, that feature has been announced a year ago and hasn't been explained very until recently. On the small info available it looks just something like NVIDIA's Unified Memory
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/15 17:19:10 (permalink)
did anyone bother to see the nvidia slides I posted awhile back?
something like this

 
MCM is coming you need cores just to handle IO and latency issues...  where you have dedicated Arm cores doing some of the basic work and GPU cores do the rest
 
mGPU compute is here - whether you put them as single chips design or package them in a single MCM (where you can bypass windows MB/IO and PCIe latency)
id say you gain on the MCM
 
you may not see it on the volta refresh but what come next has to consider it
put as much as you can close to the silicon at question, cpu,gpu,cache,gpu memory and SSD ram
 
the more you can put on the chip the less bandwidth issue - and more SSD or even faster ram close to GPU if not on it
the only issue is more complexity and more cost up front...so cheap cards will be out of the question
 
the next round maybe looking at 32-64GB ram and then 128GB after that maybe 256 and 512GB (think about bandwidth there)
we keep doubling ram usage/bandwidth and speed and you think bandwidth is gonna keep growing.... like ram miracles grow on trees
we are going to hit some walls 
 
its why AMD is placing SSD ram on board some cards already

 
   


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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/15 23:44:43 (permalink)
I wouldn't rely on some leaked performance numbers for an extremely outdated benchmark to be any indicator of RX Vega vs. GTX 1080.  The frontier edition numbers from various publications are probably the most comprehensive and reliable numbers to go by at this moment.  What we know is Vega FE uses well-over 300W and uses expensive HBM2 memory that really won't make a difference.  Not to mention, upping the clock speeds another 300MHz will not put it over an overclocked 1080.  That would put the FE near 1700MHz, which would only be possible with liquid cooling and the card already runs hot as it is... Maybe with really, really good drivers it could beat an overclocked 1080?  
Honestly, this is too little too late from AMD.  The market for $500+ video cards is mostly saturated at this point until we see Volta.  Most people who were waiting for AMD to give them another option just went with Nvidia because the wait was astronomical (over a year since Pascal launched).  There was also too much uncertainty to keep anyone aside from an AMD fanboy waiting so long.  
 
Even if AMD were somehow able to implement "miracle" drivers crafted by Jesus himself to match a 1080 Ti in performance, my argument regarding a saturated market still holds.  AMD won't make very much money off of the few Vega sales they make and it'll be back to square one: Refresh a card with roughly the same performance as an R9 290X every year until the next big GPU is ready.  Meanwhile, Nvidia will launch Volta sometime within the next few quarters with solid performance gains and everyone will flock to it because they want the best performance NOW, not third-best performance over a year later.

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#36
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/16 03:54:05 (permalink)
I think last 2-3 years AMD was focused on CPU Market. 
Because FX8350 was their last processor and he was not attractive at all.
They decide to design new architecture and they success. But they thought about GPU section, and that part could be in same problems as their CPU section if they continue to send on market much weaker cards than NVIDIA and more than year after NVIDIA.
It's terrible but AMD can't even to give competitive performance to GeForce whole year of reasearch and working after NVIDIA.
They need whole year to send on market premium long waited GPU 300W power consumption with performance competitive to NVIDIA's mid range model with 180W power consumption. Because of that NVIDIA charge that model similar as AMD asked for their premium GPU because and performance are similar. 
For 6 months AMD completely revitalize CPU section but now their GPU section is in same bad position.
They can't repeat same with Ryzen because for that need a lot of time, and they need to offer something to customers.
But looking Radeons last years and all revisions and revitalization of previous model and space bettween two generations they had enough time to easy design and build something really special. 
Maybe and NVIDIA approach is smart, why to hurry with HBM when customers no benefits from that at the moment, GPU performance are more important. Every year, 12-14 months NVIDIA launch 80% at least performance improvemen, every year. Only problem is price.
But situated people no reason to worry, they always have good option with GeForce only to choose model they like.
 
 
 
 


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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/16 08:54:31 (permalink)
Vlada011
I think last 2-3 years AMD was focused on CPU Market. 
Because FX8350 was their last processor and he was not attractive at all.
 

 
no Rory redefined AMD - said Discrete GPU is over and APU and ARM is the new norm
Killed off a good section of the R&D section of Radeon (engineers)
and put the crimp on AMD future by doing that
 
Rory was removed and it takes a while to revamp the company back to discrete - and trying to acquire staff talent and tech you lost for trying to kill the GPU division
it doesn't happen overnight - and we are seeing it in process now ...1 yr to develop drivers like WTH...seems to me they are quite low on staff
 
AMD needs profit and serious investment in R&D...  they just need the staff 
the profit is needed for a investor buyer to look seriously an AMD for buyout
losing $$$ is not an option close to bankruptcy
 
then you would have the resources to design and wait to catch up and pass Nvidia
right now Nvidia has the ball in it's court Excess $$$  billions every year they could go out and just acquire tech companies or launch new ventures let alone snatch up engineers with higher pay salaries and bonuses
 
they are even becoming a threat to Intel (big Blue)
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2017/07/16 09:01:27

 
   


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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/17 05:53:22 (permalink)
Vlada011
That mean price of GTX1080Ti will stay same. 
 
It's shame that 14 months after Pascal launch date we worry is it AMDs premium GPU stronger or weaker than NVIDIAs year old medium segment GTX1080. Or we could say that GTX1080 is high segment and GTX1080Ti premium, how much people prefer.
Now AMD will change strategy and to offer RX Vega CF for 100$ more than GTX1080Ti and people will use single or dual on Ryzen 7 and everyone is happy. Except guys who expect to GTX1080Ti price go little down to think on some custom model not basic only.
Before 6 years I bought premium GeForce with ALL CUDA for price of GTX1070 now.
Before 3 years I bought premium GeForce with ALL CUDA for price of GTX1080 now.
Now I would need to pay even more than GTX1080 for crippled card with crippled bandwidth.
What is next, exactly 1000$ successor of GTX1080Ti cripple on all side where is possible.
How we slip fast from 699 to almost 1000$ for some models in store that's really question.
To be precize Europe never even had opportunity to see nothing like 699. More like 799 or 899.
 


You have to consider that price per transistor is lowering less and less with each new process, sometimes it doesn't lower at all which means that while they can build smaller dies the price they pay for each of them will still the same preventing them from recovering the transition cost to the new process by the size reduction.

As for the GTX 1080 Ti price in Europe at the $699 price you have to add taxes (VAT), for example in Italy we have 22% VAT, do the conversion in Euro, add VAT and you will end up with 770€ which is in line with lower street price.
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seth89
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/17 06:57:23 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious
Vlada011
I think last 2-3 years AMD was focused on CPU Market. 
Because FX8350 was their last processor and he was not attractive at all.
 

 
no Rory redefined AMD - said Discrete GPU is over and APU and ARM is the new norm
Killed off a good section of the R&D section of Radeon (engineers)
and put the crimp on AMD future by doing that
 
Rory was removed and it takes a while to revamp the company back to discrete - and trying to acquire staff talent and tech you lost for trying to kill the GPU division
it doesn't happen overnight - and we are seeing it in process now ...1 yr to develop drivers like WTH...seems to me they are quite low on staff
 
AMD needs profit and serious investment in R&D...  they just need the staff 
the profit is needed for a investor buyer to look seriously an AMD for buyout
losing $$$ is not an option close to bankruptcy
 
then you would have the resources to design and wait to catch up and pass Nvidia
right now Nvidia has the ball in it's court Excess $$$  billions every year they could go out and just acquire tech companies or launch new ventures let alone snatch up engineers with higher pay salaries and bonuses
 
they are even becoming a threat to Intel (big Blue)


This is why I like AMD right now, they turned out an awesome CPU with zero money and staff. This means they have a brilliant core staff who could do so much more with a bigger, better, well funded staff.

Same deal with the R9 200 cards. They were awesome cards with aftermarket coolers and got a bad wrap for AMDs reference cooler. The product only got better with every driver update too.


                        
 
#40
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/17 08:50:36 (permalink)
seth89
Xavier Zepherious
Vlada011
I think last 2-3 years AMD was focused on CPU Market. 
Because FX8350 was their last processor and he was not attractive at all.
 

 
no Rory redefined AMD - said Discrete GPU is over and APU and ARM is the new norm
Killed off a good section of the R&D section of Radeon (engineers)
and put the crimp on AMD future by doing that
 
Rory was removed and it takes a while to revamp the company back to discrete - and trying to acquire staff talent and tech you lost for trying to kill the GPU division
it doesn't happen overnight - and we are seeing it in process now ...1 yr to develop drivers like WTH...seems to me they are quite low on staff
 
AMD needs profit and serious investment in R&D...  they just need the staff 
the profit is needed for a investor buyer to look seriously an AMD for buyout
losing $$$ is not an option close to bankruptcy
 
then you would have the resources to design and wait to catch up and pass Nvidia
right now Nvidia has the ball in it's court Excess $$$  billions every year they could go out and just acquire tech companies or launch new ventures let alone snatch up engineers with higher pay salaries and bonuses
 
they are even becoming a threat to Intel (big Blue)


This is why I like AMD right now, they turned out an awesome CPU with zero money and staff. This means they have a brilliant core staff who could do so much more with a bigger, better, well funded staff.

Same deal with the R9 200 cards. They were awesome cards with aftermarket coolers and got a bad wrap for AMDs reference cooler. The product only got better with every driver update too.

With zero money and staff you can do literally nothing, you have a romantic vision of AMD :), they used the money earned were they didn't had to compete (consoles) investing them in the right direction.
post edited by Stefem - 2017/07/17 08:58:15
#41
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/17 11:40:43 (permalink)
Wow all the verbiage here I thought I was bad.... AMD decided two years ago to go from the bottom up and said as much in numerous press releases. There idea is to erode the leader's (Intel/Nvidia) market share in those segments 1st. That they have done and I'd say they have done it very well. We are just beginning to see the upper mainstream with Vega but it is still a mainstream product. In the sense that both have their top of the line GPU you'd do well to remember AMD's top of the line was always 3 years down the road as they made clear. It's not fair to expect a competitor to 1080Ti when it was never promised. You'd also do well to keep in mind they are all new architectures CPUs and GPUs and in that sense they actually have a head start albeit from the bottom up. I think the strategy is awesome. By the time NAVI hits they will have a wealth of experience and driver optimization under there belt and the 7nm process should = a performance per watt crown bare minimum. Volta is a tock for Nvidia so there will be growing pains there even so they will likely be the performance King but at what cost??.  For years AMD shot for the top and missed I think they finally got it right new from the ground up. I do hope it pays off for them because there is no doubt we have all benefited from the competition.

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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/17 15:36:29 (permalink)
AMD Radeon Vega Frontier Edition Liquid Cooled Graphics Card Dissected
 
Throttles When Overclocked, Power Consumption Peaks Out at 440W
 
 
 
http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-vega-frontier-edition-liquid-cooled-model-overclock-power-test/ 
 
https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-Vega-Frontier-Edition-16GB-Liquid-Cooled-Review/Power-Consumption-  

Radeon Vega Frontier Edition Liquid Cooled Comparable To a 180W GTX 1080 While Consuming 440W Power

 
Doesn't beat a 1080 but is competitive
 
 
excuse me when i say id rather but something a heck of a lot cheaper and use less than 1/2 the power than buy this boat
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2017/07/17 15:46:25

 
   


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#43
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/17 15:57:38 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious

I like that cooler mount.
 
In AMD's so-called defense, Vega Frontier isn't a "gaming" card... but that defense goes out the window if there's a gaming/pro switch on it. 
 
I honestly don't know what the deal is with Vega... ignoring the idiotic fanboy overhype, I expected a little better from a launch showing. Let's hope for their (AMD), even nVidia... and especially consumer's sake, RX Vega does put on a better show, without looking like a lame duck. I mean, it's one thing where they show slightly improved performance with slightly better power efficiency when compared to a slightly older card (the way "old AMD" used to do it), than barely matching performance when cranked to a power burning half kilowatt against an older card that uses 40% as much power.
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/17 16:24:26 (permalink)
someone peeps i've been watching regards this vega card doing lots and lots of stuff with it, is "Gamers Nexus" he has some very interesting views on the vega including strip down, also "Actual Hardcore Overclocking" he also has some very relevant views and mods on vega both dudes are available on youtube and worth a watch 
 
i remember when EVGA brought them in to look at the situation with the aCX i had no clue who they were i think i referred to them as the "hippy" and the "crackpot", how wrong i was and now pay them great homage at every chance i get!
 

 
post edited by baconinabun - 2017/07/17 16:39:26
#45
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/17 16:59:52 (permalink)
Guess it all comes down to the cost and that is the factor we don't know. If the card was cheaper then the 1080 and faster then it becomes a good option for gamers if it comes out higher it really comes down to what the difference really equals in the real world since sometimes 15% doesn't make a game playable vs. not playable.
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/18 13:56:35 (permalink)
and the news
 

AMD Radeon RX Vega Lands in Budapest – Shows Performance Close To a GTX 1080, Launching in 2 Weeks

 
http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-vega-gtx-1080-battlefield-1-comparison/ 
 
but not beat
 
so much for AMD marketing
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2017/07/18 14:18:22

 
   


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#47
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/19 15:45:47 (permalink)
AMD’s RX Vega tour confirms it is targeting GTX 1080
 
https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/matthew-wilson/amds-rx-vega-tour-confirms-it-is-targeting-gtx-1080/
 
 
so a overclock chip that eats 2x the power to go against gtx1080(at stock)
and prices???? well pretty close to Nvidia offering - seeing rumors of $650 USD

 
   


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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/20 00:36:18 (permalink)
This looks to me one of those AMD moments where its a "lookie we can match or beat a 1080!" Tho.. the 1080 is a year old, and it cant out pace the Ti that's newer...




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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/20 05:34:01 (permalink)
Vega looking worse and worse. Shame. But price to performance will still need to be evaluated.
 
What I'm looking for specifically is decent performance (1060 or preferably 1070 parity) at a lower TDP. Looks like that might not happen. But I would buy Vega that has performance parity with a 1070 at a SLIGHTLY higher TDP.
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Vlada011
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/20 09:46:59 (permalink)
Xavier Zepherious
AMD’s RX Vega tour confirms it is targeting GTX 1080
 
https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/matthew-wilson/amds-rx-vega-tour-confirms-it-is-targeting-gtx-1080/
 
 
so a overclock chip that eats 2x the power to go against gtx1080(at stock)
and prices???? well pretty close to Nvidia offering - seeing rumors of $650 USD




What, GTX1080 performance with 300W power consumption and same price as GTX1080Ti.
I mean 50$ less. Who will pay for that? Miners?
People could build GTX1080 SLI for same power consumption, they have no reason to pay RX Vega more than GTX1070.
 


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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/22 01:31:30 (permalink)
Yes, people spending money for dual 1080 definately worry about electricity bills...


#52
Vlada011
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/22 01:58:27 (permalink)
If everything is true I can't believe AMD want to ask 650$ for similar card as GTX1080 no matter on power consumption.
Except if they think on people who use cards for mining.
Gamers don't want to pay so big price for performance as GTX1080 without PhysX and 100W higher power consumption.


#53
Xavier Zepherious
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Re: AMD RX Vega Beats GTX 1080; 5% Performance Improvement per Month 2017/07/24 07:51:59 (permalink)
Now, AMD did reveal the results of the polling and that returned some interesting results. It was a near perfect split in thirds. One third of people said they absolutely could not tell the difference, one third of people preferred the right side, and last but not least one third of people preferred the left side. 
 

 
http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-vega-challenge-pdxlan/ 
 
no official numbers - and comparing on software optimized for AMD
 
 
well that $300 price saving in the PC system they referred too.... at hungary
 
they were comparing a $499 free-sync and a $949 g-sync into the price
 
a whopping $500 difference in the monitor should tell you VEGA won't be cheap
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2017/07/24 07:58:29

 
   


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