Nec_V20
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For the first time ever I saw a comparison between a good air cooler and an AIO running on a dual chip Ryzen CPU and as I suspected see https://forums.evga.com/D...-m3001694.aspx#3006758 , the air cooler outperforms the AIO. This is because the air cooler has 100% of its cooling capacity implemented, that is covering the hotspots of the two chiplets; whereas an AIO only has at best 50% of its cooling capacity (where the heat exchanging fins are in the cooler head) covering those hotspots.  Source: Hardware Cannucks The Noctua NH-U12S is not even the best 120mm cooler that Noctua has to offer, that would be the Noctua NH-U12A. So I would take the recommendation of AMD to use at least a 280mm AIO to cool the 3950X with a HUGE grain of salt.
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flyinion
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/14 10:34:08
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Someone really needs to come out with some custom waterblocks that put the jet plate over the chiplet area. Most of the custom cooling blocks the fins do cover them but I've been reading there are optimizations that need to be done to the block designs to better cool Zen2 chips. With that 280mm recommendation looks like I should definitely be looking into a second rad if I upgrade my 3700X to a 3950X next year or a high core count 4xxx series (the plan if it's still AM4 compatible). I think my 30mm 360 is already really pushing it when my 3700X and 2080 Super FTW are really loaded up.
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Nec_V20
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/14 10:54:48
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Or keep the rad in for decoration and get the Noctua NH-U12A cooler. And before you say it: Noctua has opened a hotline in the US for people triggered by the colour of their fans. The number is 1-800-248 363 Yes, that's 1-800-BITE-ME 
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transdogmifier
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/14 10:56:33
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Nec_V20
Or keep the rad in for decoration and get the Noctua NH-U12A cooler.
And before you say it:
Noctua has opened a hotline in the US for people triggered by the colour of their fans.
The number is 1-800-248 363
Yes, that's 1-800-BITE-ME
Sounds like the phone number I have for people who are shocked when I say "I Hate RGB"... I can't post my phone number tho.
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flyinion
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/14 11:02:13
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Nec_V20
Or keep the rad in for decoration and get the Noctua NH-U12A cooler.
And before you say it:
Noctua has opened a hotline in the US for people triggered by the colour of their fans.
The number is 1-800-248 363
Yes, that's 1-800-BITE-ME
LOL I ran a 9 year old NH-D14 over two builds until this one. If I really had an issue with their fans though I could just put Chromax series on them. Also, the rad couldn't just be for decoration. My 2080 is watercooled and was a Hydro Copper SKU so I don't have a factory air cooler for it :)
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RainStryke
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/14 11:23:48
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Problem is, that's a 15 minute stress test. A few hours of gaming would show a much different story. The 2 fan AIO water cooling kits are always going to be a better route for those long gaming sessions. I have a Noctua NH-U14S and it does not stand up to my EVGA CLC 280, i'm actually stuck with this air cooler because the case I have that in doesn't fit 140mm fan's and I have 3 AIO's that all run 140mm fans lol
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Asetek Im Hit!
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/14 15:40:17
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Yea, saw this too. Too many variables to make such a specific claim. (So says the Asetek guy ;). Fans make a big difference in AIO performance as does the rest of environment. There is also no info on push-pull configs with 3950X just yet. And no 360mm comparison (single fan set or push-pull)...that I have seen so far. Honestly can't wait to get my hands on one for testing. More to come. Nec_V20
For the first time ever I saw a comparison between a good air cooler and an AIO running on a dual chip Ryzen CPU and as I suspected see https://forums.evga.com/D...-m3001694.aspx#3006758 , the air cooler outperforms the AIO.
This is because the air cooler has 100% of its cooling capacity implemented, that is covering the hotspots of the two chiplets; whereas an AIO only has at best 50% of its cooling capacity (where the heat exchanging fins are in the cooler head) covering those hotspots.
Source: Hardware Cannucks
The Noctua NH-U12S is not even the best 120mm cooler that Noctua has to offer, that would be the Noctua NH-U12A.
So I would take the recommendation of AMD to use at least a 280mm AIO to cool the 3950X with a HUGE grain of salt.
post edited by Asetek Im Hit! - 2019/11/14 16:34:58
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DEJ915
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/14 16:27:16
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Usually results favour CLC and custom loop since their cold plates are flat vs convex like on normal air coolers which is a poor design for maximum contact on a non-centered die like on Ryzen.
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Hoggle
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/14 21:38:43
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I take it with a grain of salt since air coolers are very dependent on the case and what is happening with airflow inside for how well they cool. AIO coolers are more forgiving to the case you use and how much airflow is going around the inside. I personally couldn't go back to air cooling since I like the slim profile of AIO but others might want a monster cooler blocking the ability to see inside the case.
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Nec_V20
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/15 01:30:48
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RainStryke
Problem is, that's a 15 minute stress test. A few hours of gaming would show a much different story. The 2 fan AIO water cooling kits are always going to be a better route for those long gaming sessions. I have a Noctua NH-U14S and it does not stand up to my EVGA CLC 280, i'm actually stuck with this air cooler because the case I have that in doesn't fit 140mm fan's and I have 3 AIO's that all run 140mm fans lol
I would 100% agree with you if you are speaking about a CPU which has the processor chip in the middle of the PCB so that it is completely covered by the heat exchanging fins inside the cooler head Consider however the positioning of the chiplet(s) in the Ryzen 3000 series CPUs:  AIOs are just not designed to optimally cool this kind of chip topology, a lot of the cooling potential of an AIO is wasted covering areas of the CPU which do not generate heat compared to the hotspot of the CPU chiplet. It is easy enough to get a picture of the inside of an AIO cooling solution and overlay that over the picture above and you will see just how little of the actual cooling potential of an AIO cooling head is being used. The cooling in the cooling head of an AIO occurs where the heat exchanging fins are, in the picture of the Ryzen 3600 above that would be less than 25% coverage, that is, over 75% of the cooling potential of an AIO is effectively wasted. A good air cooler (such as the NH-U12A) however, would have 50% of its heatpipes covering the area of the hotspot of the Ryzen 3600 pictured above.
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rjohnson11
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/15 02:31:00
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Personally I still would prefer an AIO over air cooling for a 16 core CPU. I hope that in the future AIO cooling will improve.
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Cool GTX
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/15 03:56:46
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Your point about it being less than ideal make sense; but, would the heat not be conduct fairly well through the heat spreader to a copper heatsink of a quality made AIO.
Once the system is heat soaked, temps should stabilize, unless the OC / Voltage was extreme - past the BTU capacity of the cooler
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Nec_V20
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/15 04:10:31
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rjohnson11
Personally I still would prefer an AIO over air cooling for a 16 core CPU. I hope that in the future AIO cooling will improve.
I agree with you, here is my current main system:  As you can see, I like me my AIO, when I get the 3950X I will do the experiment with an AIO to see if it can cool at least as well as the Noctua NH-U12A I have on the 3600X testbed system I have. I am not however holding my breath. I just don't believe that I will get as good cooling from the AIO, let alone better. Ryzen is outselling Intel by a LOT, the biggest retailer in Germany publishes its sales results and last month, just the Ryzen 3600 (not including the 3600X) sold more units than all of Intel sales of CPUs put together. AIO manufacturers will have no other choice but to react. That is if pressure is put on them by us consumers, who will buy a better cooling solution in the form of an air cooler, rather than get something which looks good, but is inferior in the task it is meant to accomplish. If we do not use the power of our wallet, then AIO manufacturers will not feel constrained to design something which is more appropriate.
post edited by Nec_V20 - 2019/11/15 04:44:12
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Cool GTX
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/15 05:49:31
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Nice Rig 
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Nec_V20
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/15 06:07:58
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Below you can see the sales for CPUs from the biggest retailer in Germany for September:  If this continues, I don't see how AIO manufacturers can avoid adapting their coolers for the Ryzen 3000 series of chips
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aka_STEVE_b
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/15 07:08:30
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I'll never go back to air cooler, mounted hanging sideways w/ 5 lbs pressure pushing on the mounts ...  AIO 4 life .... 
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flyinion
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/15 09:49:12
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aka_STEVE_b
I'll never go back to air cooler, mounted hanging sideways w/ 5 lbs pressure pushing on the mounts ...
AIO 4 life ....
Yeah I ran the original Noctua D14 for like 9 years over 2 builds. Decided I was done with those kinds of things and did my first custom loop. Skipped AIO's altogether (though I nearly did one of the Alphacool ones).
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DEJ915
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/16 10:10:33
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aka_STEVE_b
I'll never go back to air cooler, mounted hanging sideways w/ 5 lbs pressure pushing on the mounts ...
AIO 4 life ....
I feel you there, I just built a Ryzen 3600 system for a friend with a tower cooler and after shipping it did not power on. I was like well this is some crap and had another CPU sent over and sure enough somehow the CPU died, it has been a long time but I wonder if the cooler did kill the CPU lol.
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flyinion
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Re: AIO vs Air Cooler for Ryzen 3900X/3950X
2019/11/16 14:55:03
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DEJ915
I feel you there, I just built a Ryzen 3600 system for a friend with a tower cooler and after shipping it did not power on. I was like well this is some crap and had another CPU sent over and sure enough somehow the CPU died, it has been a long time but I wonder if the cooler did kill the CPU lol.
Usually they damage the socket in some way. In the "old days" before through motherboard mounting methods when copper heatsinks first were coming out in the early 2000's and the heatsinks used to just attach to the socket itself people actually had issues with the heavier ones ripping the sockets off the mobo.
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