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Hot!3 PCI-E leads really needed ?

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Paulo88
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2021/01/19 16:34:40 (permalink)
Hi,
I've just installed my EVGA 3080 FTW3 and noticed that it has 3 seperate PCIE power ports.  I do have 3 on my PSU but in order to reduce the amount of cables I'm only using 2 cables 1 having 2 sockets on the end.
(PSU: ) 
Is there any benefits from using 3 seperate PCIE leads over 2 (1 with 2 ends) ?
 
-Paul
post edited by Paulo88 - 2021/01/19 16:47:25
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/19 17:11:03 (permalink)
    Needed?  No, not necessarily.
    But, it's always best to use 3 separate cables if possible.  In your situation, since it is possible for you to avoid daisy-chaining, I would recommend avoiding daisy-chaining.
     
    If the PSU and cables are designed to support that kind of load on a daisy-chained cable, it should be acceptable to use a daisy-chained cable.  But why would you if you have better options?  Just because you can daisy-chain a cable, doesn't mean that you necessarily should.  The wires of a daisy-chained cable will run SLIGHTLY hotter, the contacts will get slightly hotter, and there is a slightly bigger chance of the contacts making bad connection (oxidation, corrosion, whatever,) at some point in the future and burning up.  When we are running so close to the limits of the wires and contacts, if one fails, it will create a domino effect where one failing will put more load on the others, cause another to fail, and another, and another, until they are all burned up, and your computer is damaged wherever the wires touched.
     
    A standard cheapo PSU should never be daisy-chained with these sorts of loads.  These cards use a lot of power.  If you are going to daisy-chain, make sure you are using a good PSU rated to be daisy-chained with these sorts of loads, using cables approved for use with that PSU from that PSU's manufacturer.
     
    For example, Seasonic Prime, Focus, and Core power supplies have contacts rated for 9 amps. This information comes from Seasonic. Seasonic even provides images showing which daisy-chaining configurations are approved vs not approved. Using math, and provided specifications, we can verify that the contacts at the PSU-end of a daisy-chained cable may be running at around 8 amps with a maxed-out un-modified 3090 FTW3; so it is acceptable to daisy-chain approved cables with those specific Seasonic power supplies. 

    So, let's say that you have a Seasonic Focus 750W power supply. Do you have to replace that $100 power supply with a $200 power supply? No, not necessarily. It would be wasteful to replace the PSU for that reason alone. The cables and contacts are rated for this sort of load, and using a daisy-chained cable (included) is the only way to have the number of connections required.  Go ahead and daisy-chain in that situation.

    On the other hand, if you owned a Seasonic Focus 850W power supply, which has enough cables to not necessitate daisy-chaining, I would recommend not daisy-chaining. It's simply a matter of greater safety margins and greater redundancy. There's no reason why you couldn't daisy-chain in this scenario, but why would you, if it isn't necessary?
     
    Aesthetics is the only reason you would choose to daisy-chain when it isn't necessary, but I don't think that is a wise choice.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/01/20 08:34:54
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    schulmaster
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/19 17:21:03 (permalink)
    Paulo88
    Hi,
    I've just installed my EVGA 3080 FTW3 and noticed that it has 3 seperate PCIE power ports.  I do have 3 on my PSU but in order to reduce the amount of cables I'm only using 2 cables 1 having 2 sockets on the end.
    (PSU: ) 
    Is there any benefits from using 3 seperate PCIE leads over 2 (1 with 2 ends) ?
     
    -Paul


    It fundamentally depends on your PSU. If your PSU is adequately prepared to have 300-315W pulled from one PCIe output, and the cable is more than up to the task for delivering it, there is no harm. Ampere has exposed the fact that few PSUs fall into this category. Dedicated outputs per plug are strongly encouraged if you are physically capable(forgoing aesthetics if they are a consideration). Y splits are technically supported, but I wouldn't choose a 300 series FTW as my sword on that quest if I were you.

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    kevinc313
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/19 19:33:00 (permalink)
    It'll be fine.  As long as you have a good PSU.  Until proven to be a problem.  I recommend using the 1st and 3rd ports daisy chained, as they draw slightly less than the 2nd port.  1+3 should top out at about 250W while the card is pulling 445W total, see attached pic, which is with 3 non-daisy chain cables on a 1300w Seasonic Prime Gold.
     
     
    post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/01/19 19:35:17

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    whisperingshadow
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/19 23:20:24 (permalink)
    I use 3 separate cables for the pcie.  Plus the optional pci power cable to the motherboard.

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    RickJamesBish
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 04:53:20 (permalink)
    See statement in attachment straight from EVGA Tech.
     
    All the posts you see insinuating that daisy chaining is the cause of the dead cards have zero foundation. There is zero data showing that daisy chaining is the culprit. The poll I started, which provides SOME data versus NO data, all but contradicts that theory. Having said that, if clutter is the only reason for not using three dedicated, I would run that extra line and learn to live with the clutter.
    post edited by RickJamesBish - 2021/01/20 05:00:34

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    ComicBookAssassin
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 05:07:21 (permalink)
    RickJamesBish
    See statement in attachment straight from EVGA Tech.
     
    All the posts you see insinuating that daisy chaining is the cause of the dead cards have zero foundation. There is zero data showing that daisy chaining is the culprit. The poll I started, which provides SOME data versus NO data, all but contradicts that theory. Having said that, if clutter is the only reason for not using three dedicated, I would run that extra line and learn to live with the clutter.



    sorry looking over it, it says if the power supply come with two ports and on one of those to cables the manufacturer has put a daisy chain then that is fine. But if you have a two port and buy a daisy chain to make it work then that is the issue as the manufacturer hasn’t spec’d for that additional power draw. Which they are 100% right this could lead to spiking which will kill the card. But as they have said if the manufacturer made the PSU with two cables and one is daisy chained then the manufacturer has spec’d for an additional power draw to leave one of those two ports this is deemed as being acceptable by EVGA and not a cause as far as there wording goes.
    post edited by ComicBookAssassin - 2021/01/20 05:12:47

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    RickJamesBish
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 05:20:37 (permalink)
    That is correct. If the power supply already has a split built in, as does my EVGA Power Supply on my old computer, or comes with a split cable to attach, they are saying it is fine, but not purchasing a split cable and adding it to a PS. Personally, unless I dig deep in the old parts bin to way back when, I have not seen a PSU that did not include a split or have on built in, although they probably exist.
    post edited by RickJamesBish - 2021/01/20 05:23:11
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    ComicBookAssassin
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 05:28:55 (permalink)
    RickJamesBish
    That is correct. If the power supply already has a split built in, as does my EVGA Power Supply on my old computer, or comes with a split cable to attach, they are saying it is fine, but not purchasing a split cable and adding it to a PS. Personally, unless I dig deep in the old parts bin to way back when, I have not seen a PSU that did not include a split or have on built in, although they probably exist.




    lol true! If you had such a PSU and where lucky enough to get a3080 or 3090 then let it sit on the side of a window and mock you until you change your power supply 😂, these have to be the mustard colour wiring PSU’s or the semi modular ones 

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    richardgoncalves
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 07:26:05 (permalink)
    I would use 3 separate - why introduce a possible point of failure by daisy-chaining?
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    Gogod2020
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 08:15:06 (permalink)
    richardgoncalves
    I would use 3 separate - why introduce a possible point of failure by daisy-chaining?



    So very this. You have spent so much on this lovely GPU don't support it with an old and/or inadequate PSU. Go all the way, get a good PSU that can support 3 separate cables and have peace of mind.

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 08:26:46 (permalink)
    Gogod2020
    richardgoncalves
    I would use 3 separate - why introduce a possible point of failure by daisy-chaining?



    So very this. You have spent so much on this lovely GPU don't support it with an old and/or inadequate PSU. Go all the way, get a good PSU that can support 3 separate cables and have peace of mind.


    His does already support 3 separate cables.  He doesn't need to buy a new PSU.
    Paulo88
    I do have 3 on my PSU but in order to reduce the amount of cables I'm only using 2 cables 1 having 2 sockets on the end.

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    RickJamesBish
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 08:58:27 (permalink)
    That ^   
     
    Its like people read the first sentence and just stopped.   He has three outputs so he does not need a new PSU.  Deal with the clutter and install the third cable, although there is nothing to support the claim that running 1 with a split is going to be an issue.
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    ComicBookAssassin
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 09:32:07 (permalink)
    Gogod2020
    richardgoncalves
    I would use 3 separate - why introduce a possible point of failure by daisy-chaining?



    So very this. You have spent so much on this lovely GPU don't support it with an old and/or inadequate PSU. Go all the way, get a good PSU that can support 3 separate cables and have peace of mind.




     
    Evga has already stated that in the attachment RickJamesBish posted that it was fine and two post reaffirming it. I broke down the wording/contest of the attachment what was the point if people don’t listen. It’s not a point of failure it can run it this way by design. Ie has two or three PCI-E ports but has two cables but one has daisy chain it’s designed to run from just the two cables

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 09:52:01 (permalink)
    ComicBookAssassin
    Gogod2020
    richardgoncalves
    I would use 3 separate - why introduce a possible point of failure by daisy-chaining?



    So very this. You have spent so much on this lovely GPU don't support it with an old and/or inadequate PSU. Go all the way, get a good PSU that can support 3 separate cables and have peace of mind.




     
    Evga has already stated that in the attachment RickJamesBish posted that it was fine and two post reaffirming it. I broke down the wording/contest of the attachment what was the point if people don’t listen. It’s not a point of failure it can run it this way by design. Ie has two or three PCI-E ports but has two cables but one has daisy chain it’s designed to run from just the two cables


    You're missing the point though.  His PSU has the ability to use all three separate cables.  As the attachment above shows, EVGA recommends using separate cables if possible.  It is possible for him to use separate cables.  So, he should use separate cables.
    #15
    Hoggle
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 10:27:41 (permalink)
    It’s fine to use two cables and three connectors but it would in some cases be better to use three separate cables if you can.

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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 11:13:44 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    ComicBookAssassin
    Gogod2020
    richardgoncalves
    I would use 3 separate - why introduce a possible point of failure by daisy-chaining?



    So very this. You have spent so much on this lovely GPU don't support it with an old and/or inadequate PSU. Go all the way, get a good PSU that can support 3 separate cables and have peace of mind.




     
    Evga has already stated that in the attachment RickJamesBish posted that it was fine and two post reaffirming it. I broke down the wording/contest of the attachment what was the point if people don’t listen. It’s not a point of failure it can run it this way by design. Ie has two or three PCI-E ports but has two cables but one has daisy chain it’s designed to run from just the two cables


    You're missing the point though.  His PSU has the ability to use all three separate cables.  As the attachment above shows, EVGA recommends using separate cables if possible.  It is possible for him to use separate cables.  So, he should use separate cables.



    Not really, the point is he wants to keep his cable mess down and can do so as the PSU is spec’t that it can draw two times the load from one port, Evga has said this is acceptable as the PSU has been built with this load in mind. OP doesn’t need the additional cable. I did three because I’ve got space and the daisy chain thing doesn’t look symmetrical to me 😂 

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 11:16:20 (permalink)
    ComicBookAssassin
    ty_ger07
    ComicBookAssassin
    Gogod2020
    richardgoncalves
    I would use 3 separate - why introduce a possible point of failure by daisy-chaining?



    So very this. You have spent so much on this lovely GPU don't support it with an old and/or inadequate PSU. Go all the way, get a good PSU that can support 3 separate cables and have peace of mind.




     
    Evga has already stated that in the attachment RickJamesBish posted that it was fine and two post reaffirming it. I broke down the wording/contest of the attachment what was the point if people don’t listen. It’s not a point of failure it can run it this way by design. Ie has two or three PCI-E ports but has two cables but one has daisy chain it’s designed to run from just the two cables


    You're missing the point though.  His PSU has the ability to use all three separate cables.  As the attachment above shows, EVGA recommends using separate cables if possible.  It is possible for him to use separate cables.  So, he should use separate cables.



    Not really, the point is he wants to keep his cable mess down and can do so as the PSU is spec’t that it can draw two times the load from one port, Evga has said this is acceptable as the PSU has been built with this load in mind. OP doesn’t need the additional cable. I did three because I’ve got space and the daisy chain thing doesn’t look symmetrical to me 😂 


    No, he presumably doesn't need to use all three separate.  (But who knows since we don't know ANYTHING about his power supply and don't know ANYTHING about where he got the daisy-chained cable from)  But he SHOULD use 3 separate cables because he CAN and it is RECOMMENDED that he uses three separate cables (according to your own reference and according to ALL the information in the first reply of this thread).
     
    /thread
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    ComicBookAssassin
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 11:23:05 (permalink)
    ty_ger07
    ComicBookAssassin
    ty_ger07
    ComicBookAssassin
    Gogod2020
    richardgoncalves
    I would use 3 separate - why introduce a possible point of failure by daisy-chaining?



    So very this. You have spent so much on this lovely GPU don't support it with an old and/or inadequate PSU. Go all the way, get a good PSU that can support 3 separate cables and have peace of mind.




     
    Evga has already stated that in the attachment RickJamesBish posted that it was fine and two post reaffirming it. I broke down the wording/contest of the attachment what was the point if people don’t listen. It’s not a point of failure it can run it this way by design. Ie has two or three PCI-E ports but has two cables but one has daisy chain it’s designed to run from just the two cables


    You're missing the point though.  His PSU has the ability to use all three separate cables.  As the attachment above shows, EVGA recommends using separate cables if possible.  It is possible for him to use separate cables.  So, he should use separate cables.



    Not really, the point is he wants to keep his cable mess down and can do so as the PSU is spec’t that it can draw two times the load from one port, Evga has said this is acceptable as the PSU has been built with this load in mind. OP doesn’t need the additional cable. I did three because I’ve got space and the daisy chain thing doesn’t look symmetrical to me 😂 


    No, he presumably doesn't need to use all three separate.  (But who knows since we don't know ANYTHING about his power supply and don't know ANYTHING about where he got the daisy-chained cable from)  But he SHOULD use 3 separate cables because he CAN and it is RECOMMENDED that he uses three separate cables (according to your own reference and according to ALL the information in the first reply of this thread).
     
    /thread




    we don’t know the make correct but the manufacturer has supplied the cables that the OP is using meaning it can be used that way. OP doesn’t want the mess can he use two cables with one having the daisy chain if supplied by the manufacture. (Yes) and my reference for my use is more OCD than better to have three cables

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    ty_ger07
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 11:29:51 (permalink)
    ComicBookAssassin
     
    we don’t know the make correct but the manufacturer has supplied the cables that the OP is using meaning it can be used that way.

    We don't know that.
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    RickJamesBish
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 11:32:45 (permalink)
    You don't want to assume but he does state he has 3 on the PSU,  BUT is using one split to keep clutter down, which suggests he chose that over 3 cables.
     
     
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 11:36:03 (permalink)
    RickJamesBish
    You don't want to assume but he does state he has 3 on the PSU BUT is using one split to keep clutter down, which suggests he chose that over 3 cables.

    Correct.
     
    My point is that we don't know where he got the daisy-chain cable. Is it a third-party daisy-chain cable?  Is he using a third-party daisy-chain adapter?  We don't know.  It's not right to assume that his PSU and daisy-chain cable is approved to be used this way, if we have no information about the PSU or cables he is using.  If his PSU and cables have wires and contacts rated for only 6 amps, using the daisy-chain cable can be bad.  On the other hand, if he is using a premium PSU with premium cables rated at 9 amps per contact, it should be fine to use the daisy-chained cable.
     
    Either way, separate wires are always recommended if possible.  Always.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/01/20 11:45:10
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    ComicBookAssassin
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 11:43:18 (permalink)
    Ok yea I agree I was going in the fact that even a 3port power supply has normally 3 cable one of which is a daisy chain. Yes ty_ger07 noted apologies you are correct with the we don’t know

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    #23
    Endworld
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 14:04:02 (permalink)
    RickJamesBish
    See statement in attachment straight from EVGA Tech.
     
    All the posts you see insinuating that daisy chaining is the cause of the dead cards have zero foundation. There is zero data showing that daisy chaining is the culprit. The poll I started, which provides SOME data versus NO data, all but contradicts that theory. Having said that, if clutter is the only reason for not using three dedicated, I would run that extra line and learn to live with the clutter.




    Here's a quote from an EVGA Tech on these forums:https://forums.evga.com/P...0-series-m3189271.aspx
     
    We would already recommend to run separate, individual PCIE cables from the PSU to the GPU, this applies to 30 series, and earlier series GPU's as well.  Never would recommend daisy chaining, it could be an electrical/fire hazard.
     
    Regards,
    Peter N
    #24
    RickJamesBish
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 14:09:26 (permalink)
    Endworld
     
    Here's a quote from an EVGA Tech on these forums:https://forums.evga.com/P...0-series-m3189271.aspx
     
    We would already recommend to run separate, individual PCIE cables from the PSU to the GPU, this applies to 30 series, and earlier series GPU's as well.  Never would recommend daisy chaining, it could be an electrical/fire hazard.

    Regards,
    Peter N

    And here it is again along with another EVGA Tech and Product manager saying it is ok.  See attachment.  This is a tired argument. I have more data here in my home to show it is not an issue than any data that has presented here to show that it is.
     
    post edited by RickJamesBish - 2021/01/20 14:12:37

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    #25
    Endworld
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 14:12:26 (permalink)
    RickJamesBish
    Endworld
     
    Here's a quote from an EVGA Tech on these forums:https://forums.evga.com/P...0-series-m3189271.aspx
     
    We would already recommend to run separate, individual PCIE cables from the PSU to the GPU, this applies to 30 series, and earlier series GPU's as well.  Never would recommend daisy chaining, it could be an electrical/fire hazard.

    Regards,
    Peter N

    And here it is again along with another EVGA Tech and Product manager saying it is ok.  See attachment.  This is a tired argument.
     


    Okay, was just giving information. lol I guess you'll just go with whichever advice fits your narrative. Best of luck!
    #26
    Paulo88
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/20 17:13:29 (permalink)
    RickJamesBish
    See statement in attachment straight from EVGA Tech.
     
    All the posts you see insinuating that daisy chaining is the cause of the dead cards have zero foundation. There is zero data showing that daisy chaining is the culprit. The poll I started, which provides SOME data versus NO data, all but contradicts that theory. Having said that, if clutter is the only reason for not using three dedicated, I would run that extra line and learn to live with the clutter.




     
    Awesome, this is great news. And confirms what I learned from NZXT too.
     
    It appears that whilst the NZXT C750 has 3 PCI-E outputs it only comes with 2 cables each with 2 connecters on the ends.  This means that if you have 2 cards you only need 2 cables.  I checked with NZXT and they say that whilst the cables have 2 connectors on the ends its quite capable of outputting the required power needed.
     
     
    #27
    sunlight0
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    Re: 3 PCI-E leads really needed ? 2021/01/21 00:33:57 (permalink)
    No problem. As long as you have a good PSU.
    #28
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