Helpful Replywhat exactly does QPI do on a P55?

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thetacowarrior
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2010/04/13 08:13:39 (permalink)
I know that on the P55/lynnfield setup I have, the PCI-e and memory controllers are in the cpu, so I ask, what, if anything does QPI do? I have the option to change it in bios (its at 4.2) but I don't know what is on the bus, and why it needs to be at 4.2. Thanks all, sorry if this is a noob question, I just can't find a clear answer anywhere.

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jambisource
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/13 09:22:49 (permalink)
I believe it is how the CPU communicates with the chipset. Just like AMD's Hypertransport.



 
 
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007vsMagua
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/13 09:31:05 (permalink)

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007vsMagua
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/13 18:21:46 (permalink)
Hey thetacowarrior, how's it going, see ya on the boards alot, which is good. Your question got me thinking about my setup again, so I started thinking why do I have my QPI set to 4.270 GT/s? It seems I set it there because everybody else was setting it there, as related to overclocking. After reading through a number of posts at other forums on the subject, it seems there are countless theories and recommendations to be found, but the most common one is that if your system is stable and not running to hot, then whatever setting you have it at is fine.
 
So in the spirit of testing I ran 3 LinX tests, using the 3 QPI options. I was wondering if LinX would give any indication of performance and stability, and I also recorded the maximum tempertures using CPUID Hardware Monitor.
 
 
QPI            LinXx20 Time    GFlops Peak      CPU    VREG   System     QPI Link
 
4.270 GT/s___40m30s_______48.8645_____55C___50C___34C_____2561.6MHz
 
4.800 GT/s___39m46s_______48.8516_____57C___51C___35C_____2881.8MHz
 
AUTO_______40m59s_______48.4148_____55C___49C___32C_____2881.8MHz
 
 
It took AUTO over a minute longer to run the test, and the score is a bit lower, but I sure like the temps...so AUTO it is for me...as long as things stay stable.
 
I also did a little reading up at Intel on the i5/i7, and technically the QPI is called the DMI or the Direct Media Interface and it is the link that controls the bus to the PCH or the Platform Controller Hub otherwise know as the P55 chipset.
 

 

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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/13 20:15:19 (permalink)
Ive been running at 4.8 since day 1 .

Figured that a faster interlink would be better then slow ,so went that route.

I know that offers no explanation as to what it truly effects, but just wanted to let you know that it can be done without problems.

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thetacowarrior
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/13 20:39:47 (permalink)
dennis, perfect, thats exactly what i was looking for. I had heard what your picture shows, but had never actually seen the picture. I have mine at 4.2 because feathers told me to, plus everybody else seemed to think it was the way to go, so why argue with success, it has worked for me. I can deal if all it does it communicate to HDD and usb (i have no pci cards).

As for my forum activity, I do what I can, although I have a lot of experience time wise with computers, most of this is new to me, since most of my experience is with modding barebones or retail computers. that combined with my infinite curiosity keeps me busy on here. I like it when I ask a question that gets others thinking, or helps somebody, since despite my best efforts, I am but a padowan when it comes to computer knowledge.

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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/14 08:49:39 (permalink)
Since my last post, with the QPI set to AUTO, my computer has twice failed to Post from a cold start. Instead of clearing CMOS, I've been able to set the power switch to off on the psu, wait a minute, power on, and then Post. Ah...the wonders of AUTO. Because I'm using a PhysX card in the x4 PCIe slot, which is controlled by PCH, I'm going to give 4.800 GT/s a try and see how that goes. What's a padowan? I used to live in Santa Cruz, but it has been awhile.
 
 
 
post edited by dennisburke - 2010/04/14 10:27:43

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thetacowarrior
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/15 08:07:24 (permalink)
I hate it when it fails to post, I think I'd rather just bsod. That way I don't have to clear cmos and re-set up bios. Which reminds me, do you know if the saved profiles can be recovered after clearing cmos? I have never tried.
And a padowan is a young Jedi apprentice, I think my geek is showing.

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robbtemp
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/15 08:44:35 (permalink)
thetacowarrior

I hate it when it fails to post, I think I'd rather just bsod. That way I don't have to clear cmos and re-set up bios. Which reminds me, do you know if the saved profiles can be recovered after clearing cmos? I have never tried.
And a padowan is a young Jedi apprentice, I think my geek is showing.


Saved profiles are not affected by clearing the CMOS.
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007vsMagua
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/15 09:28:32 (permalink)
I ran some PhysX benchmarks with my 8600GT in the PCIe slot controlled by the PCH, and I got the same scores with QPI set to 4.279 and 4.800, so not much gained there. It surprised me that I could simply power off the psu, instead of clearing CMOS, to post. I've never played with profiles. A padowan is a grasshopper to my generation.

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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/15 12:19:37 (permalink)
The WIKI puts it into slightly better layman's terms.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_QuickPath_Interconnect
 
 

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thetacowarrior
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/19 16:00:17 (permalink)
Haha I would rather go grasshopper, i have a friend who always says padowan, it kinda catches on, ya know?

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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/19 18:42:28 (permalink)
My QPI is at 6.400 (highest selectable setting), runs flawless along with my OC to 4.4Ghz. Therefore I don't believe that QPI has anything to do with reaching higher overclock speeds.
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/21 12:05:46 (permalink)
AssKicker

My QPI is at 6.400 (highest selectable setting), runs flawless along with my OC to 4.4Ghz. Therefore I don't believe that QPI has anything to do with reaching higher overclock speeds.


It can at higher speeds than what you are running but, Lynnfield, Clarkdale, and Gulftown all have a lower QPI multiplier (1.5x vs 2x) than the Bloomfield CPUs which helps with higher BClocks.

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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/21 14:51:03 (permalink)
Corsair_Mike

AssKicker

My QPI is at 6.400 (highest selectable setting), runs flawless along with my OC to 4.4Ghz. Therefore I don't believe that QPI has anything to do with reaching higher overclock speeds.


It can at higher speeds than what you are running but, Lynnfield, Clarkdale, and Gulftown all have a lower QPI multiplier (1.5x vs 2x) than the Bloomfield CPUs which helps with higher BClocks.


Aha, I see. Thx for the good info ! Always learning ;)
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/22 11:06:26 (permalink)
The QPI still exsists on the Lynnfield, the CPU core and PCI-E Controller are not one entity yet on the Lynnfield, the PCI-E Controller is on the CPU subsrate but its still linked via the QPI link, its basically the same as the Bloomfield/X58 except instead of the PCI-E Controller being on the motherboard and the QPI having to go from the CPU to the PCI-E Controller on the motherboard it just has a short jounrey from one part of th CPU to another.

It works exactly the same as the QPI on the X58.

The DMI is totally different, thats a much slower interface and its not linked to the QPI option.  The X58 also uses a DMI interface to connect the ICH10R (Southbridge Chip) to the rest of the system, the P55 chipset is basically the ICH10R with added features.

So think of the QPI on the Lynnfield exactly the same as the QPI on the X58 only its done internally on the CPU and has a much shorter distance to travel.  The only difference is where the PCI-E Controller is, on the X58 it on the motherboard on the P55 its on the CPU but its not integrated like the Memory Controller, its separate so the easiest thing for Intel to do was use the QPI link thats already there (a Lynnfield is just a Bloomfield CPU with a 1 Memory Controller disabled and a PCI-E Controller added to the CPU Substrate) to connect the PCI-E Controller to the CPU and the rest of the system.
post edited by Moltenlava - 2010/04/22 13:54:29
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/22 11:13:16 (permalink)
AssKicker

Corsair_Mike

AssKicker

My QPI is at 6.400 (highest selectable setting), runs flawless along with my OC to 4.4Ghz. Therefore I don't believe that QPI has anything to do with reaching higher overclock speeds.


It can at higher speeds than what you are running but, Lynnfield, Clarkdale, and Gulftown all have a lower QPI multiplier (1.5x vs 2x) than the Bloomfield CPUs which helps with higher BClocks.


Aha, I see. Thx for the good info ! Always learning ;)


Thats not the QPI multiplier thats the Integrated Memory Controller multiplier, on Bloomfield Memory Controller frequency needs to be double (2x) the Memory Frequency but on the other CPU's its one and a half times (1.5x) the Memory Frequency.

that said the internal QPI link for Lynnfield initially was supposed to be slower than the 4.80GT/s (18x) of the non-extreme Bloomfields, when i first read about it 16x was suggested which looks like it was correct since the OP has listed his defualt QPI as 4.20GT/s which would be 16x133MHz = 4200MT/s = 4.20GT/s

There is no real benefit to overclocking the QPI on a Desktop motherboard, there is more than enough bandwidth there, the QPI is really intended for the server segment which could possibly tax the QPI bandwidth, a desktop machine will not even with multiple graphics cards.
post edited by Moltenlava - 2010/04/22 11:32:09
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007vsMagua
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/22 13:51:18 (permalink)
Thanks Moltenlave for setting the record straight. I must have misread something and jumped to conclusions when visiting Intel. What QPI does makes more sense to me now.

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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/22 13:58:38 (permalink)
dennisburke

Thanks Moltenlave for setting the record straight. I must have misread something and jumped to conclusions when visiting Intel. What QPI does makes more sense to me now.


dont worry about it at first glance of the P55 diagram it looks like the QPI link is gone but basically its just hidden in the CPU.  The P55 diagram if you could see inside the CPU would look similar to the X58, only the PCI-E Controller (which would be similar to the X58 IOH chip but with 16 lanes instead of 36 lanes) would be moved onto the CPU but the QPI link would still lead from the "CPU" (or atleast the CPU die) to the PCI-E Controller on the CPU substrate.

Once Sandy Bridge comes the PCI-E Controller will be integrated into the CPU die like the Memory Controller so the QPI link would be unnecessary to link the PCI-E Controller to the rest of the CPU.

I added a few pieces to the P55 diagram to show whats going on under the CPU Heatspreader.

post edited by Moltenlava - 2010/04/22 14:08:58
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007vsMagua
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/22 15:32:06 (permalink)
Thanks again Moltenlava. Thinking about what your saying I find myself wanting to understand even more. Let me throw this at you and see where it goes.
 
Not only yourself, but Intel also, says that the memory controller is integrated into the chip. What then is the VTT voltage doing? I'll take even one step further, Intel states that the maximum VTT voltage is 1.21V, and going any higher can cause damage. Your thoughts_
 

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Moltenlava
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/23 03:14:53 (permalink)
CPU VTT (listed as just VTT on Intels spec sheet) is uncore voltage, although the Memory Controller etc is part of the CPU die (integrated) the Cores and Uncore have a different voltage.

CPU VTT is Uncore voltage

Uncore consists of: Integrated Memory Controller, L3 Cache and QPI.

Mostly you will want to increase CPU VTT when your increasing the speed of the Memory.  When running a high QPI its possible increasing CPU VTT may help but its not something thats common to do.

you wont want to go much higher than 1.21v for 24/7 use but for short benchmarking runs it may be ok to go to as much as 1.40v. Those who actually own a Lynnfield may be able to tell you in more detail what acceptable CPU VTT settings are, i am going by the rule we use for the X58 platform, since they are very similar the rule for one could apply to the other, the difference is the max CPU VTT rated by Intel for Bloomfield is 1.375v so we have more room to play with.

The default CPU VTT i think is 1.1v so 1.21v would be around +100Mv.  If the default CPU VTT for the socket 1156 CPU's is not 1.1v (i am going by the X58) then basically +100Mv is +0.1v
post edited by Moltenlava - 2010/04/23 03:19:35
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007vsMagua
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/23 07:11:43 (permalink)
Ah, the mystical uncore voltage. I'm running my VTT at 1.1V with my 3.2GHz overclock. The highest overclock I'll run is 3.8GHz, any higher and my temps get to high on air. For 3.8GHz I've found 1.175V for VTT to work, but them I'm using generic memory. Most Lynnfield users in this forum, who are running high overclocks are running high VTT voltages, some as high as 1.4V, but then most of them are using performance memory with faster timings. I'm assuming most of them are running their high overclocks as their normal opperational setting.

I guess time will tell whether running a high VTT will have any adverse affects on the life of the CPU. It's interesting that users will stick to Intels voltage specification for VCore and DIMM as if it's gospel, but VTT gets a free pass.


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thetacowarrior
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/23 08:01:57 (permalink)
Thanks for the rest of the QPI info as well as the vtt lesson, they are both very good pieces of info to know. So you think that 4.2 is high enough QPI for my 260 Core 216's in SLI?
I don't think its bottlenecking, I turned it up and benched, it didn't change more than the normal variance from run to run, but that's not an end-all answer to whether or not its bottlenecking, right?

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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/23 11:55:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
thetacowarrior

Thanks for the rest of the QPI info as well as the vtt lesson, they are both very good pieces of info to know. So you think that 4.2 is high enough QPI for my 260 Core 216's in SLI?
I don't think its bottlenecking, I turned it up and benched, it didn't change more than the normal variance from run to run, but that's not an end-all answer to whether or not its bottlenecking, right?


QPI has loads of bandwidth, its really something that was designed with the server segment in mind since Intel merged the server segment with the high-end enthusiast segment with Nehalem/Bloomfield.  The normal QPI speed should be plenty for any desktop configuration even using 4 GTX 480's in 4-Way SLI.

4.2GT/s should be plenty for your 2 GTX 260 Core 216's in SLI. If you have the BClock overclocked them it will actually be running faster than 4.2GT/s since its really a multiplier setting more than an actual QPI setting, the reason its listed as 4.2GT/s is that 16x the defualt BClock of 133MHz's equals 4200 MT/s which is 4.2GT/s.  Its similar to the way the Memory Frequency is found and the CPU Frequency, you take the BClock and them multiply it by the multiplier thats set (you them double that speed to find the QPI speed as the QPI is bi-directional, it has 2 way traffic so can do 2 things per clock).

4.2 GT/s = 16x Bclock (4200/2 = 2100, 2100/133 = 16)
4.8 GT/s = 18x Bclock (4800/2 = 2400, 2400/133 = 18)
6.4 GT/s = 24x Bclock (6400/2 = 3200, 3200/133 = 24)

So for example if the BClock was set to 200 and you set QPI to 4.2 GT/s in the BIOS the actual QPI speed would be 16x200 = 3200, 3200x2 = 6400, the QPI speed would be 6.4 GT/s.

Your BClock if 153 and a setting of 4.2 GT/s for QPI would mean an actual QPI speed of 16x153 = 2448, 2448x2 = 4.9 GT/s.

what you dont want is for your QPI speed to be the same speed as the Uncore (NorthBridge, Memory Controller), if they are both at a 1:1 ratio (both at the same speed this can cause instability, i think its more of an issue on Bloomfield than Lynnfield since its easy to have the QPI and NB/IMC run at the same speed).  I mean the same clock speed and not the QPI's effective or data speed, a QPI data/effective speed of 6.4 GT/s is actually a QPI clock Speed of 3200MHz, if you had the Memory frewuency set to DDR3 1600 on the Bloomfield that would mean a NorthBridge/Integrated Memory Controller (IMC) frequency of 3200MHz (1600x2 = 3200), both the QPI clock frequency and IMC frequency would be running at 3200MHz which was rumoured to cause instability.

post edited by Moltenlava - 2010/04/23 12:04:07
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Re:what exactly does QPI do on a P55? 2010/04/25 15:50:35 (permalink)
Ok, thanks for clearing that one up. I was more curious to learn than actually wanting to tweak with it, as I don't see a difference in performance. Thanks for the info, I will leave it at 4.2.

 Motherboard: ASUS M5A99FX  CPU: AMD FX8350  Cooler: Noctua NH-D14  Memory: 8Gb (2x4Gb) G.Skill Sniper 1866  GPUs: EVGA GTX 480+HiFlow SLI  PSU: PC Power and Cooling Silencer 910  Case: Corsair AIR 540  HDD: SanDisk Ultra 240GB SSD + 600GB Velociraptor + Seagate 750GB hybrid  Other: Logitech z5300e 5.1 surround | Thermaltake MekaG1 | Logitech G500 mouse | Dell 24" monitor @ 1920x1080
 
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