http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/amd_radeon_8000_specs_and_gcn_2_release_q3_2013.html
 
If it's coming as early as Q3, I might just go team red and get my free copy of BF4 + bunch of other games in the next "Never Settle" bundle.  I was originally gonna buy GTX 780....but this AMD card really looks nice
 
I really like how AMD turned around their game in the past 1.5 years.  I remember the launch of the 7000 series was somewhat ugly.  No CFX support for 7970 till like 3 months later...the GTX 680 beat it, even though a 680 was a smaller mid range card....I can keep going on and on....but towards the end of 2012, they turn it around with incredible drivers, epic game bundles...just a whole experience if you ask me....Thanks AMD and I'm hoping to see you continue pushing....so I can buy your card...or possibly NV's future offerings due to your competition 

Crap, I just realize that this isn't the new 20nm Volcanic Islands that were rumored a few weeks back...this is actually still the 28nm being used in the 7970....but simply a refresh.  Haha I got too excited and just posted away.  I guess when I saw that 6gb stock I was like WHOA!!
 
Maybe it will drive down prices of 780 though...but according to the leak, 8970 will be $599....so I dunno if NV might just keep it at $650 since they are close to begin with?

dukenuke88

Crap, I just realize that this isn't the new 20nm Volcanic Islands that were rumored a few weeks back...this is actually still the 28nm being used in the 7970....but simply a refresh.  Haha I got too excited and just posted away.  I guess when I saw that 6gb stock I was like WHOA!!

Maybe it will drive down prices of 780 though...but according to the leak, 8970 will be $599....so I dunno if NV might just keep it at $650 since they are close to begin with?

Why would AMD sell it cheaper? If it performs close to 780 there is no reson to sell it below 580-600 and then there is no reson to reduce price of 780 either as it actually is sold to cheap already as correct pirce would be around 800:ish when is basicly is a 3GB titan with a few twists but it wont make it a 500-650 card alone.
 
If both camps can make more money it is just good for them and i could care less for whiners that want sub 500 cards in the x80 or x970 series as that is a thing of the past when the x70 ad x950 belon to that pricerange.

HD8970 +35% performance over HD7970 GE? Yeah, goodnight GTX 780 ;)

Gold Leader

IF priced lower they will sell more, I think it's a wise move, more sales is also a greater success :P

This will give AMD again the best price/performance ratio, they always succeed here, I might go for the HD 8970 for my secndary build, but never for my main.

Mainly the API package that comes with NVIDIA VGA cards is far more complete compared with AMD, even that AMD can come very a very attractive card themselves, I always adored the image quality Radeons seem to give over GeForce cards, even that this has greatly improved with GeForce cards since the GeForce 600 series.
The drivers from NVIDIA have always been superior to me also, it would be hard to miss all of this

But for a secondary system, a CFX Radeon HD 8970 setup might still be worth it Since these cards have Tress-FX, HD Video Converting Support, Eye Infinity and other things that makes them different and very appealing.

But so far it would be nice to see the two face to face in a battle, the Titian might be a competition also, that is if AMD's RV1170 XT is that good, it all remains to be seen I guess, but hey 6GB 384Bit GDDR5 is nice tho, that is one nice advantage over GTX 780, more like a competitor for the GTX Titan as specs go

But I think this new card won't be faster than a GTX Titan but I think the GTX 780 has a problem heh. If So it's good to have some competition, that should get the prices lower on both ends.

Sure they sell more, but simular performance, simular price. Then no need to go sub 600 when price is correct between the cards and those that are elcheapos have other cards to buy as both camps needs the price to be a bit higher a while to refill the bankaccount after unhealthy pricewar that only benefit the cheap buyers that want things cheap rather than keep the brand on the market.

The 8970 is going to be a big competitor against the 780 because of the 6GB of VRAM.  If the 8970 really is 35% faster than the 7970 GHz edition and comes priced even around say $599, NVIDIA is going to have to respond either with a 6GB model or a significant price drop.
 
In my opinion, the 8000 series looks good to keep competition within the GPU market, but it will ultimately depend on how they're priced.

The big thing is whether or not AMD prices competitively or just matches the 780 price.  If they price the 8970 at $650, you can pretty much guarantee NVIDIA will not drop their prices at all.  However at $599 or less, NVIDIA might have to take some type of action to stay competitive.  
 

dukenuke88

ledzppln6

The 8970 is going to be a big competitor against the 780 because of the 6GB of VRAM.  If the 8970 really is 35% faster than the 7970 GHz edition and comes priced even around say $599, NVIDIA is going to have to respond either with a 6GB model or a significant price drop.

In my opinion, the 8000 series looks good to keep competition within the GPU market, but it will ultimately depend on how they're priced.

Yeah I'm thinking this as well....but I hear 6gb will be reserved for Titan only?  We'll see though, NV gotta stay on their toes to be competitive :D

Also if they don't come out with a 6gb...then I'm sure they will drop the price of the 780 from $650 to $550 maybe....cuz an 8970 at $600 and 35% faster than 7970GHZ...that 35% is definitely faster than a 780.

If those specs are true and AMD price 8970 at $599 or less and have BF4 and couple other games for free, it would be a good deal.

tm95ern


Sure they sell more, but simular performance, simular price. Then no need to go sub 600 when price is correct between the cards and those that are elcheapos have other cards to buy as both camps needs the price to be a bit higher a while to refill the bankaccount after unhealthy pricewar that only benefit the cheap buyers that want things cheap rather than keep the brand on the market.

 
The only reason Nvidia is raping its customers over the coals with the 700 series is because they currently don't have any competition. Had AMD been able to release the 8K series much much sooner, and if it's able to match or beat the 780's performance then we would see a totally different price for the 700 series cards.  Competition drives down prices plain and simple. Without that you get exactly what were seeing now, cards worth at most $500 going for 25%+ more in sticker price simply because Nvidia knows people will pay it. 

dukenuke88

ledzppln6

The 8970 is going to be a big competitor against the 780 because of the 6GB of VRAM.  If the 8970 really is 35% faster than the 7970 GHz edition and comes priced even around say $599, NVIDIA is going to have to respond either with a 6GB model or a significant price drop.

In my opinion, the 8000 series looks good to keep competition within the GPU market, but it will ultimately depend on how they're priced.

Yeah I'm thinking this as well....but I hear 6gb will be reserved for Titan only?  We'll see though, NV gotta stay on their toes to be competitive :D

Also if they don't come out with a 6gb...then I'm sure they will drop the price of the 780 from $650 to $550 maybe....cuz an 8970 at $600 and 35% faster than 7970GHZ...that 35% is definitely faster than a 780.

that 35% will make it also faster than a Titan since that Titan is about 5% faster than a GTX 780 overall rofl, this would make the HD 8970 about 3% faster than a Titan which I do believe is possible, it is newer tech than Titan so I think AMD has a chance here and then pricing it at like 550 Euro's it's gonna be a steal for your money too.
 
I prefer best price/performance any day not everyone is rich so even if AMD would price this card at 480 euro's it would be a WIN for the entire crowd. I am for one against capitalism and imo NVIDIA has too much of it.  Only the TDP is always a big thing questioned I think NVIDIA still wins the lowest TDP grounds.

Brad_Hawthorne

tm95ern
Why would AMD sell it cheaper? If it performs close to 780 there is no reson to sell it below 580-600 and then there is no reson to reduce price of 780 either as it actually is sold to cheap already as correct pirce would be around 800:ish when is basicly is a 3GB titan with a few twists but it wont make it a 500-650 card alone.

If both camps can make more money it is just good for them and i could care less for whiners that want sub 500 cards in the x80 or x970 series as that is a thing of the past when the x70 ad x950 belon to that pricerange.

$349 and $499 are magical numbers. The market gets a lot more scarce above that. Nvidia is playing with fire by messing with that convention. AMD hasn't quite lost their minds enough to humor Nvidia yet. You go above those numbers and AMD makes less money not more because of market size willing to go there.

Personally, I have a 7970 3GB. The only thing that appeals to me about the new card is the 6GB vram. Not sure if that'll get me to sell and trade up to the new card later this year though. As is the 7970 does everything I require of it.

The 349 and 499 is all in customers head, elchepos and those that got comfort with that price after previous series, but now this is out the window and there is no reson for buyers to cry and moan about prices, that only tell you that they dont belon to the target for that card in question.
If that mean that those previously bougt 680 and are custom to buy the "highend" now is belong to the next card in line, the 770 and lower so be it. 700 sewries is nothing like the older ones, perhaps 800 will be simular to older but who knows.
So what if some buyers have to settle with a lower card than expected, thats life if you are not willing to pay up what the card cost.
Seen to mutch yapping from kids and others that expect to mutch, as in titan "overpriced", 780 "should be 500", "780 has to come as a 6GB part" and all that thing that only tell they are not informed about how it is this time around.

When 8970 basicly looks like a 7970 6GB you would do the right thing to be sceptical to the 8970.

Brad_Hawthorne

tm95ern

Brad_Hawthorne
$349 and $499 are magical numbers. The market gets a lot more scarce above that. Nvidia is playing with fire by messing with that convention. AMD hasn't quite lost their minds enough to humor Nvidia yet. You go above those numbers and AMD makes less money not more because of market size willing to go there.

Personally, I have a 7970 3GB. The only thing that appeals to me about the new card is the 6GB vram. Not sure if that'll get me to sell and trade up to the new card later this year though. As is the 7970 does everything I require of it.

The 349 and 499 is all in customers head, elchepos and those that got comfort with that price after previous series, but now this is out the window and there is no reson for buyers to cry and moan about prices, that only tell you that they dont belon to the target for that card in question.
If that mean that those previously bougt 680 and are custom to buy the "highend" now is belong to the next card in line, the 770 and lower so be it. 700 sewries is nothing like the older ones, perhaps 800 will be simular to older but who knows.
So what if some buyers have to settle with a lower card than expected, thats life if you are not willing to pay up what the card cost.
Seen to mutch yapping from kids and others that expect to mutch, as in titan "overpriced", 780 "should be 500", "780 has to come as a 6GB part" and all that thing that only tell they are not informed about how it is this time around.

When 8970 basicly looks like a 7970 6GB you would do the right thing to be sceptical to the 8970.

$349 and $499 are not only in their head but also in their pocket book. It's an expectation of disposable income available for mid-range and enthusiast level that is long established with not only computer hardware but consumer electronics in general. Apparently, you don't fully appreciate the psychology behind price point. To label anyone as kids, crying or moaning is just being deliberately divisive. One would hope that you could better express an opinion without ad hominem. Your reasoning does not hold much water or merit based on well established consumer purchasing habits. Looking at your sig, I can now understand why you are being condescending though. You feel as though you purchased your right to that bias via two Titans. You're currently $2000 emotionally invested in Nvidia.

Well Said sir! You understand how the system works. NVIDIA is laughing because they earned 2000 USD / 1515 Eur rofl, which is cheap if it would be in Euro's, over here a Titan costs 950 Eur each making a total of 1900 Euro's or say 2508 USD...  Even that the value of the hardware is less than 150 USD / 114 Eur
 
As the Titan goes it's nothing special VGA card wise I have had over 550+ High end VGA cards since 1994 and seen much rarer and special things out there. The Titan is a beast still but it's not worth 950 Euro's not even close to that I would be surprised that the Radeon HD 8970 is faster than the Titan and even 300 - 350 Eur cheaper, I have seen Radeons always get the best price performance even outclassing all the NVIDIA counterparts. The Radeon 9700 Pro, X800 XT Platinum Edition & X1900 XTX are very good examples And I have all three still at home since these three are revolutionary designs that really changed the face of 3D graphics on the PC market.
 
Same that the GeForce3, GeForce 6800 Ultra & GeForce 8800 GTX/Ultra that were for NVIDIA, their GTX 480 was also a great revolution introducing DX11
 
Anyways NVIDIA has lots of money, they have enough money to Sell a very high priced VGA card, they know it will sell for 950 Euro's so they are not crazy to lower it's price, if they can get 1100 Euro's for a VGA card they will do it.
Same as Intel does for their Xeon's I can get 2 to 3 16 core Opterons for the same price as one Xeon but still beating the lights of that Xeons for the same price.
 
Anyways This is a great disadvantage when rich money comes to play, the ones with lesser money always have to pay the harder price, most people that use PC's only buy what they can afford which is obvious, most prefer best price/performance per watt, AMD has always had a leading market in that range, most people I know even use Radeons due to their greater price/performance values.
Since the Crisis is only making such things even more expensive due to the higher taxes we have to pay< it oo look forward to the best price performance, the reason why I got two 680's is because I bought them for less than the price of a 670 ;), Otherwise I would of kept my HD 6990.
 
And hey it's all cool that people can afford 2000 EUR/USD+ for their VGA cards, but for me, I prefer to buy two 16 core Opteron 6380's a Supermicro H8DG6-F server motherboard and 4x 8GB DDR3-1600 ECC Reg for that money, much more use to me as such money would lead, each to their own needs I'd say. The EVGA GTX 680 SC Sigs I have now will do me lots of good for quite some time, thanks to that great deal to which I got them for.

tm95ern 
Why would AMD sell it cheaper?
...
If both camps can make more money it is just good for them and i could care less for whiners that want sub 500 cards in the x80 or x970 series as that is a thing of the past when the x70 ad x950 belon to that pricerange.

It highly depends on the economic environment and what both companies know about each other since they both have paid rumor-hunters known as "market analysts".  If the deFacto-recession is still evident then only the wealthy act immune to economic woes, thus prices will stay high to milk them.  These companies wouldn't be interested in those that want the best and can't afford it, thus not listening to their complaints, they do only pay attention to sales threats.
 
Back in the summer of 2008, just about every rumor available suggested that HD4870 would have 480-stream processors and planned a $300 MSP, so nVidia pricing GTX280 at $650 just justified; but somehow AMD kept the secret that it actually had 800-sp and performed within 17% of GTX280 and a price war ensued.  Within a month, both companies adjusted priced so they averaged in the middle $400 range.
 
I don't know if AMD knew what they were doing back then, maybe they expected too much from nVidia, certain nVidia didn't have the best information in price planning.  AMD has been late twice now, before with HD2000 and now with HD7000's successor; but before it was a continual delay, that was why 8800GTX didn't debut higher than $600, they felt AMD could come anytime.  With Titan, they knew AMD wouldn't be able, hence price.  But I'd wager with GTX780 perhaps nVidia feels AMD could come anytime...
 
If HD7970's successor performed too slow for the cost they charge against GTX780, then they would drop prices, but I don't think nVidia would react unless AMD dropped prices too far which I don't think AMD would risk it in this economy.  They need every dollar/euro of whatever.  It is why their OEMs were just rebrands, cheaper than bringing a new series.
 

Gold Leader 
IF priced lower they will sell more, I think it's a wise move, more sales is also a greater success :P 

No company wants to spend more resources just to get more products into people's hands, they want to make money, even if that means not selling many items while keeping a high margin.  Remember, competition is good for us, not the companies.  nVidia is sitting pretty because AMD isn't in the picture, we don't know what AMD's move will be, they can either keep the price up (i.e. HD7990 took the same range as GTX690 instead of bringing that price down to historic dual-GPU prices) or start a price war (i.e. HD4870 versus GTX280).   

RuffeDK 
HD8970 +35% performance over HD7970 GE? Yeah, goodnight GTX 780 ;)

My concern is power consumption, what can AMD get away with?
 
nVidia improved Fermi from GTX480 to GXT580 at the same 40nm by increasing one cluster count and raising the frequencies of both GPU and Vram, yet cutting 6W of power; therefore I doubt AMD has been sitting on their hands improving HD7970.  If the performance of GTX580 was raised to match the power levels of GTX480, it would be just under 20% faster.   So hypothetically, if AMD repeated nVidia's success at 28nm from HD7970, then the successor could be 20% faster at the same wattage level, but 35% would push it towards 275W or more.
 
It could use and dissipate more wattage (which leads to higher temps and more noise) just to match GTX780 in performance, not very green.  Hopefully the gap between HD7970's successor and GTX780 will close from HD7970 and GTX680, but it depends on how AMD rewired everything.

ledzppln6
The 8970 is going to be a big competitor against the 780 because of the 6GB of VRAM. 

HD7970 had 3GB, what did it compete with, the 3GB GTX580?  If it wasn't for the GHz edition, GTX680 still beat HD7970 despite having access to a higher memory bandwidth and more Vram.  Remember, performance is in the GPU core; Vram doesn't affect frame rates much, evident by how close Titan is to GTX780 in single-display gaming.  But what do most gamers use?  Single-display, so ultimately the 6GB model is marketing for their EyeFinity capability up to 6-displays, which just makes it funny since even though Sapphire made a 6GB HD7970 and performance improvement with modern games even with six 1080p displays was about 16% better.  That is 12.4 MegaPixels equivalent to ; certain more cards would be needed for higher frame rates, but clearly one doesn't need 6GB for those games.
 
Especially through EVGA's Step-up Program and CS/TS, very few of us will get the next AMD card, so we are banking on the majority of non-loyal to speak with their wallets and make nVidia drop GTX780 prices by a tad.  If not enough threaten nVidia's sales, considering how long nVidia has been by themselves, then there will be no price drop.

Gold Leader
Best Price/performance shall always be the buyers main goal and I am quite sure AMD knows what their clients want, ATi always worked like this in the past as I have been using their hardware since 1994, even before 3dfx became famous.

Yes companies want to earn money from their items but selling items at over priced amounts will get them less income, and a company as AMD also has much less money than NVIDIA, they have to play it smart to win more buyers and I have to admit they have done this all too well.

I envy all types of VGA cards really I collect VGA cards of all sorts, so no need to see me as some ATi fanboy, I am a VGA card fan of all sorts, if you prefer to see me that way
 
It's that I am amazed how AMD has pulled on through throughout all these hard times, going for best price/performance is just a simple and smart move, nothing big to it.

 
ATi did this and look at where are they now, gone, bought out by another company, AMD.
 
What AMD does is indeed good for the consumer, but not for themselves. They are bleeding cash flow every second and surviving on market worth. All the promo games they bundle also means they are paying the publisher large amounts of cash. AMD has been in the red for the last few quarter earnings and predicted to be in the red at the next quarterly earnings report.
 
Lucky for them, Nvidia's high pricing actually allows AMD to price their products higher.
 
Now it's a matter of will AMD release another product with very aggressive pricepoint to prove they are for the consumer or they will price accordingly so their balance sheets aren't hurting so much. I'm assuming the latter will happen.

I hope the 8970 is comparable to Titan for $500!