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4k and 60hz (displayport MST - 2 screen gaming)

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zurvv
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2013/04/11 15:42:38 (permalink)
I have the sharp pn-k321 4k monitor. Sadly it can only do 4k @ 30hz with one connection. I can do 4k @ 60hz when using two connections.
so my desktop is now 4k @ 60 using displaysport MST (multi stream transport), but games do not wanna use both screen when full screen.
 
under configure SLI, surround, PhysX I SHOULD be able "span displays with surround" - but that is greyed out. Windows 8 sees the MTS and breaks it into two 1920x2160 screen.
 
ideas? It doesn't work with 2 HDMI either.

post edited by zurvv - 2013/04/23 17:11:26

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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 16:53:55 (permalink)
    is surround 3d only?
    I just want to be able to play games @ the 4k rez. right now DP mts gives me a 4k desktop, but not 4k gaming options. It only plays on the first screen.

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    GreenReaper
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 17:48:12 (permalink)
    Since you are the only person I've heard of who has a 4k monitor I doubt you are going to find much help here.
     
    What I'd do is call Sharp and ask them how to set it up so it is recognized as 1 monitor. I believe for surround to work you need 3 monitors and since your is showing as only 2 it isn't working. 
     
    I would also look up dual link monitors to see if you can find an FAQ. 
     
    Edit: From what I just read about the monitor it appears to be designed for workstations, not gaming. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't support 4k at 60 fps without a special driver since its target audience appears to be graphic designers. 
    post edited by GreenReaper - 2013/04/11 17:52:37
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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 17:52:05 (permalink)
    even using two different HDMI cables...
     
    what am I missing here - how do I tell a game to use both screens. argh!


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    GreenReaper
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 17:57:03 (permalink)
    Also have you tired to use the mini display port only? I noticed you said you were using HDMI earlier. 
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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 18:57:36 (permalink)
    first time image is displayport using MST and the second post of mine with HDMI.
     
    I'm not in crazy world? forget that this is one monitor, but games can run multi screen with 2 monitors, yes?
     
    as far as windows/NVidia knows i'm running 2 screen.. argh! If this is an ATI only thing i'm going to go crazy ... tri-sli.. titans.. ugh.. $$$$$$$$$$$$$...
     
     
    post edited by zurvv - 2013/04/11 19:40:15
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    Aggressor Prime
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 19:41:36 (permalink)
    I'm assuming the display you have has 1 DisplayPort plug, at least that is what I see on the manual. That plug should be rated for DisplayPort 1.2 and you should be able to run the monitor at 60Hz with a single DisplayPort 1.2 connection. Is the monitor limiting itself to 30Hz when using just that DisplayPort connection? I can understand if the HDMI ports are doing that, in which case you need two.

    If the DisplayPort is limiting you to 30Hz, something is limiting the connection to below DisplayPort 1.2 standards. You should not have to enable MST to get 60Hz. Both MST and dual HDMI connections will force you to run in windowed mode with SLI.
     
    I would call up Sharp and see what the deal is.
    post edited by Aggressor Prime - 2013/04/11 19:48:06

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    bcavnaugh
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 19:57:15 (permalink)
    Nvidia Control Panel tells you that for Span displays with Surround you need 3 displays. Put your mouse over "Span displays with Surround" and read the bottom under Description.
    I thought you could do this as well with only 2 displays.
    Bill

    Associate Code: 9E88QK5L7811G3H


     
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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 20:08:03 (permalink)
    @prime: yeah.. it is a limit of the monitor (which I didn't notice till it was already shipped)... . I also thought I could game with multi monitor then as a backup.  (I do wonder where the limit comes in? it CAN display 60hz.. )
    but it seems I can't.. not with NVidia...
    i'm pretty sure nviewand mosaic can do it.. one can't run that software on a non-"pro" card.
    it seem ati can do it on 2 screens. Eyefinity makes windows think both screens are one monitor. I want to think that NVidia had something like that years ago too.. (maybe that was nview when anyone could use it.. *shrug*

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    maniacvvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 20:42:32 (permalink)
    Your Titan supports that res natively 
    --> Max Digital : 4096x2160
     
    It appears that your monitor does not hardware support your videocards output, but instead is dividing into dual inputs....
     
    As I read the specs, a Displayport ver 1.2 cable connected to the "computer" input on the TV is the best it will do
     
    You need to contact Sharp during business hours and then "try" and find someone who knows about that monitor....
    Good luck
     
    You are in "first adopter" territory
    You "may" or may not have been $6000 burned, if playing games was your intent 
     
     
    post edited by maniacvvv - 2013/04/11 20:47:15




    #10
    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 20:44:01 (permalink)
    only $6000 :)

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    Aggressor Prime
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 20:45:51 (permalink)
    If the monitor is forcing two input streams over 1 cable for 60Hz, then someone wasn't thinking when they designed the thing. Maybe there will be a firmware fix for it. DisplayPort 1.2 was designed to provide 1 monitor with a 4K stream.
     
    I guess this should serve as a word of caution for those interested in the Sharp PN-K321. I hope a fix is found soon. Otherwise, we still lack a true 4K display (4K @ native 60Hz).

    Manual Here:
    http://www.handpuppet.net/wow/PN-K321_manual_English_US_20121130.pdf

    According to the manual, 3840x2160 will force DisplayPort to run in Multi-Stream mode. Apparently the receivers they use cannot handle one 3840x2160 image at 60Hz, so they are probably using two DisplayPort receivers, but 1 cable.
     
    If you can return the thing, I would and wait for a real 4K display. There is still hope that Viewsonic's VP3280-LED won't make the same mistake.
    post edited by Aggressor Prime - 2013/04/11 21:05:51

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    maniacvvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 21:10:32 (permalink)
    The big tip off thats its not going to work.....
     
    A google search of that monitor
    There is not one single picture of it running a videogame
    *Look at the CES Demo pictures
     
    You can be certain that if it did run games, there would be pics and videos of it doing so.
    There are -none-




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    Aggressor Prime
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 21:21:49 (permalink)
    Since you are running in SLI, are you having half the display run at 30Hz and the other half run at 60Hz like this article says happens with a two DVI connected 4K display?
    http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/4/the-state-of-4k-and-4k-gaming-early-2013.aspx 

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    maniacvvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/11 21:29:32 (permalink)
    We are all just guessing, so are you....
     
    You need to contact Sharp during business hours and contact support.
    You need to -work- on finding someone who knows about that monitor.
    ---> Remind the level one support person you paid $6000 and ask for a top tier tech supervisor




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    Aggressor Prime
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/12 00:27:57 (permalink)
    Ok, upon extensive research, I have come upon some things that may be of interest.
    1. The reason why SLI will cause 1/2 of the monitor to have a 30Hz refresh rate is a limitation of SLI to a 400MHz Pixel Clock. This limitation can be removed with this tool: http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-NVIDIA-Pixel-Clock-Patcher
    2. A monitor will need ~580MHz Pixel Clock receiver or better to receive a single 4K signal at 60Hz. This number is taken from the EIZO FDH3601 4096x2160 display (290MHz per Displayport). This number is calculated by [Vertical Pixels) x (Refresh Rate) x (~1.05) = (Horizontal Refresh Rate)] x [Horizontal Pixels] x [~1.25]. Some of those ~ figures will differ depending on how the monitor is manufactured. I still have to find a receiver actually made to accept those kind of signals. One could exist, but I can't find one on VESA's certified list. Therefore, it would seem that most/all manufacturers will split the screen. In fact, I think DisplayPort 1.2 is limited to a 540MHz Pixel Clock (which theoretically could work in a very efficient monitor).
    3. It seems the official way VESA plans to support 4K resolution is via MST protocol. So now it is up to nVidia to all their drivers to allow 2, 4, and 6 displays to work in 2D surround, as no other solution will work with DisplayPort.

    This means that we might have to wait till HDMI 2.0 (which has a 600MHz Pixel Clock) before we see 4K displays that natively work at 60Hz without breaking the monitor into 2. However, while having a higher Pixel Clock, HDMI 2.0 has a lower overall speed due to the use of 3 lanes instead of 4. As such, they will not be able to support 30-bit color like DisplayPort 1.2.
    post edited by Aggressor Prime - 2013/04/12 00:50:14

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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/12 07:55:00 (permalink)
    super searcher prime :)
    this would work if NVidia like surround work with 2 monitors. or let mosaic work on gaming cards.
    http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-mosaic-technology.html
    sharp did to demos with this monitor in japan playing games, but it was using ATI cards.

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    omegaw666
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/12 09:41:10 (permalink)
    That's what I've been trying to tell evga/nvidia but here's the support response:
     
    Hello,
    I have a follow up from the product team.
    This particular display is a Tiled display, meaning it REQUIRES dual inputs in order to operate at the full 60Hz.
    This is NOT supported on GeForce.
    GeForce supports 4K displays that use a single DisplayPort connector.
     
    Thanks
    Dave
     
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    Aggressor Prime
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/12 11:17:27 (permalink)
    Technically, they are right, although the split is internal. Would be nice if they added support like AMD did.

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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/12 12:31:58 (permalink)
    omegaw666
    This is NOT supported on GeForce.
    GeForce supports 4K displays that use a single DisplayPort connector.

    ... ****es just give us the software that lets us do it then - there is nothing special about their other lines that would prevent it fro working on "Geforce"
     
    /me cries on Omegaw666's shoulders..
     
     
    what is the net effect of playing games @ 30hz... other than it "feels" off. Is it just refreshing in a fast enough and i'd get the feeling that I was playing at a low framerate? aren't a lot of console games running @ 30hz (i'm pretty sure halo plays @ 30hz) - but that is on a big screen very face from ones face.
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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/12 13:38:57 (permalink)
    maybe there is a device input than can take 4k @ 60hz (and that is what the computer sees) and then that device outputs 2x 1920x2160?

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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/23 17:10:35 (permalink)
    hrmm... looks like NVidia might look into it.
     
    https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/539645/nvidia-surround/2-monitor-gaming-/post/3791148/#3791148
     
    my guess is all high end 4k screens (ie, 60hz) are going to 2 screens for the next year-ish.

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    Aggressor Prime
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/23 23:44:51 (permalink)
    Until HDMI 2.0 is released, which features a 600MHz pixel clock over DisplayPort 1.2's 540MHz pixel clock.

    However, the overall bandwidth is less because HDMI just uses 3 lanes, so don't expect 30-bit 4K displays with HDMI 2.0 unless if HDMI Forum decides to use a better encoding scheme than 8b/10b.

    And I haven't heard anything from VESA on a new DisplayPort standard, so we may be left with this internal 2 screen dilemma for a few years, at least on the higher end displays that have 30-bit color. This shouldn't be a problem if and when nVidia fixes their drivers to support at least 1 of these displays (preferably, they support up to 3 of them for Surround).

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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/24 08:19:11 (permalink)
    Do we think NVidia looks at "bug" submissions?
    http://nvidia-submit.custhelp.com/app/answers/list
     
    maybe i'll post one. Other feel free do to too :) (i'm guessing the more ppl they see with the issue...)

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    mark0409mr01
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/26 04:57:43 (permalink)
    Note that the latest 320.00 driver mentions support for display 1.2 not sure if this would help as it mentions 6xx series and may/may not already be featured on the Titan...
     


    Supports DisplayPort 1.2 for GeForce GTX 600 series GPUs.
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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/04/29 11:07:30 (permalink)
    oh hell yeah...

    We are working on adding support for these types of monitors and hope to have it in a driver release soon.

    https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/539645/nvidia-surround/2-monitor-gaming-/post/3796149/#3796149

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    zurvv
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/05/02 16:32:12 (permalink)
    Josh@NVIDIA said:Currently tracking this for our R325 branch drivers, but don't quote me on that things can slip as you know =/

     
    more good news

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    houkouonchi
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    Re:displayport MTS and surround (not working) 2013/06/10 18:00:23 (permalink)
    Aggressor Prime
    Until HDMI 2.0 is released, which features a 600MHz pixel clock over DisplayPort 1.2's 540MHz pixel clock.

    Where do you hear about this 540 Mhz pixelclock limitation? In my Xorg.log:
     
     (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0): DFP-3: 330.0 MHz maximum pixel clock
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0): DFP-3: Internal Single Link TMDS
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0): DFP-3: DFP is not internal to notebook
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0): Name Aliases for DFP-3:
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0):   DFP
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0):   DFP-3
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0):   DPY-4
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0):   DVI-D-0
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0): DFP-4: 960.0 MHz maximum pixel clock
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0): DFP-4: Internal DisplayPort
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0): DFP-4: DFP is not internal to notebook
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0): Name Aliases for DFP-4:
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0):   DFP
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0):   DFP-4
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0):   DPY-5
    (--) May 28 18:12:33 NVIDIA(0):   DP-1

     
    On my macbook pro retina its only 480 Mhz (I believe because the DP 1.1 vs 1.2 bandwidth difference).
     
    Of course on linux nvidia's drivers are limited to 400Mhz pixelclock on anything just due to legacy issues anyway but still...
     



    #28
    libastral
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    Re:4k and 60hz (displayport MST - 2 screen gaming) 2013/06/20 19:51:03 (permalink)
    zurvv
    Where you bought this monitor? Is it out in Japan or somewhere in Asia already?
    post edited by libastral - 2013/06/20 19:54:52
    #29
    Aggressor Prime
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    Re:4k and 60hz (displayport MST - 2 screen gaming) 2013/06/21 10:37:55 (permalink)

    Clevo P150EM / Sager NP9150
    Intel Core i7-3840QM
    nVidia GeForce GTX 970M (6GB)

    Prepare for Descent:
    http://playoverload.com/
    #30
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