The following is my personal thoughts and not representative of our team or EVGA...
Your thoughts are welcomed and encouraged. Just keep it mature and clean...
I cannot express my disappointment enough in those in the driver seat to make this work. And the responses I have received thus far are excuses.
Need an example??? How is it that many of the BOINC projects within weeks of Keplers official release, and than nearly all others within 6 weeks, had the new CUDA core working and we saw no less than a 40% increase in output? Yet here we are still waiting for F@H to catch up.
This is disheartening to me.
Realizing of course that we are working as a volunteer to help, and that our voices mean nothing. It is still my equipment, and I would love to Fold on them, but not at 34-42% usage. Add to that the three and a half days of failures and no server communications, not to mention all the -BigAdv frustrations we went through. I as a volunteer am all but done with this project.
How can I as a volunteer ask others to help, join or even just participate on F@H's behalf, if we are not of enough value to the F@H project for them to listen to "Their" freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee producers?
I am not mad, I do however feel deflated. I cherish our team and like working with everyone. So I hope my thoughts do not offend anyone or make someone feel like I am attacking them. These are just my thoughts as a volunteer who fought his way to the top 40 on this team and has no problem Folding... However not willing to use my equipment in the manner available at this time with the F@H project.
It makes me wonder, as a person on the outside about my perception of all this... If F@H is now only for those with significant pocket books building servers, or is the GPU portions of the projects they have of no true value any more. Perhaps the GPU's have run their course at F@H and the current projects built simply would run out before the next faze or project?
At the end of the day... Back to back years of what I perceive as "Challenging" events with F@H has me in this position.
1st... I am not spending enough on CPU power and need (4) CPU's to get the same amount of production one used to. And on the same project to boot.
2nd... I buy two 680's and one 670 thinking I can gain some of the WU's lost, back. Only to see no more than 42% usage on my GPU and not give more WU's processing power than the three 570's I once had.
And here I am Seven months later and no F@H Kepler answers in sight.
One would think, with the proof of our team coming from Last Place in the world to number one faster than any other team had in many years with a combination of CPU's and GPU's. It would stand for something. Or at least prove the value of this "Large" army of worthy/willing volunteers to a high enough level to take any new GPU release seriously and get your volunteers what they need to better help Humanity...
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ramcharger89
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 09:35:09
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I think there are some tuff questions that need to be asked over the next couple of weeks. 1) Do we continue to give our time to folding or go in another direction? 2) Do we care about being #1? Just hope they have this worked out by Maxwell ( that's what I think it's called) Plus many others questions?
post edited by ramcharger89 - 2012/10/12 09:41:25
1)CPU:Xeon 3450-CPU Cooler:Zalman 9900 Max-MB:P-55 SLI-MEM:Corsair XMS3 1600 DDR-3-HHD:WD640 BLK-GPU:2x470GTX-PSU:PC P&C-910-CASE:XCLIO Windtunnel-OS:WINDOWS7 PRO-64 Bit- BIO:74 2)CPU:i7-860-CPU Cooler:Zalman 9900 Max-MB: P-55 FTW-MEM:Corsair XMS3 1600 DDR-3-HHD: WD640 BLK- GPU:2x560ti in SLI-PSU:PC P&C-950-CASE:NZXT Hades-OS:WINDOWS7 HOME PREM-64 Bit-BIO:74 We want an unfair advantage-This is War!-ShaneD 
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Tobit
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 09:46:37
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afterburner, I used to write similar posts and have exchanged many emails with Vijay over the years. You can vent to PG non-stop til you are blue in the face but it will not change a thing. ATI owners have been waiting much longer than Kepler owners. I've been folding since 2008, I've given up venting to PG and worrying about such things. I just keep things folding the best I can.
*shrug*
I understand your frustrations though brother.
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mflanaga
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 09:48:04
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To be fair.. Pande Group never told people to go out and buy Kepler cards because they had a core ready to go. I still fold with 275's and a 470, and have no issues and they fold at 100%. Now I know lots of you guys like to game and its great to have such great cards to game with, just don't have such high expectations for Folding, and you won't be so dissapointed in the future.
One thing I've learned about folding is that early adoption of any new tech is an iffy proposition at best.
I DO agree that they should get on the stick though, having these resources going to waste really sucks... for everone..
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texinga
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 10:00:11
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AB, I'm glad you brought this topic up and nothing in it is the slightest bit offensive to me. I find myself having similar thoughts quite regularly about these issues. Being a donor to Stanford with all my computer equipment has been one of the strangest donation relationships I've ever had. It's not like I occasionally send them some money and am done with involvement. This is much more personal since we have all this equipment that we purchase, pay to operate and even upgrade over time. That kind of donor involvement (IMO) calls for a much higher level of reciprocal involvement from Stanford.
The sad thing is that PG infrequently answers donor issues and they are very slow to accomplish improvements to their software (like the Kepler optimization). There are times that I feel (as you have indicated) like just saying move on to another area of DC until those guys wake up and realize they have a responsibility to their donor-base. I'm not saying they get up and think that way every day, but I can say that I often reasonably feel that way about them. The FAH Forum is a place that IMO is run by people that don't have common ability to put themselves into the shoes of donors. They quickly dismiss subjects that they don't particularly want to hear, even when those subjects are simply people seeking answers and relief. That is PG's responsibility and fault for allowing people like that to be their "middle-men" and IMO alienate people just as much as they help them.
I'm actually up for a change in direction and I'm not trying to derail anything here in our Folding team, just honestly speaking out. Our team is made up of some of the most giving and tolerant individuals I've encountered in "on-line-land". I'm proud to be associated with you which is why I'm still Folding as we speak. I'm just saying that I'm open to new ideas and I too am feeling the frustrations that you shared.
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texinga
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 10:28:38
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mflanaga
To be fair.. Pande Group never told people to go out and buy Kepler cards because they had a core ready to go.
Have to comment that while your are "technically" correct, it does not excuse PG from communicating to their donor-base as to what they are doing with a given hardware product. This is especially important of them to do when they are depending upon donors to go out and buy the very equipment that they depend upon for the science. I've been in Mainframe computing all my life. I can absolutely say that PGs practices would be a going-out-of-business strategy in the business world. I think talking openly and a lot more frequently about the types of hardware that will work is of paramount importance in this kind of donor environment. PG is basically begging for the very problems they get because donors are left in the dark so much. Of course we could just decide not to donate to FAH and put the same equipment to use solving other diseases where they can already take advantage of (new) technologies (i.e. Kepler). AB made an excellent observation when he paralleled how Keplers are doing mighty things in the Crunching sciences vs the dismal results we are seeing from FAH.
post edited by texinga - 2012/10/12 12:34:41
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 10:39:15
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I know where you're coming from, my enthusiasm for folding has been on the decline since they shifted to the v7 client. As much as I love the cause of F@H, I'm only doing it now days to earn bucks to buy new hardware. I want to contribute more towards holding off [H], but I feel like my hardware is wasted by not working to it's potential. Everything moves so slowly at PG that it's extremely frustrating. Maybe I should try switching to BOINC for the time inbetween months...
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mflanaga
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 11:52:13
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texinga
mflanaga
To be fair.. Pande Group never told people to go out and buy Kepler cards because they had a core ready to go.
Have to comment that while your are "technically" correct, it does not excuse PG from communicating to their donor-base as to what they are doing with a given hardware product. This is especially important of them to do when they are depending upon donors to go out and buy the very equipment that they depend upon for the science. I've been in Mainframe computing all my life. I can absolutely say that PGs practices would be a going-out-of-business strategy in the business world. I think talking openly and a lot more frequently about the types of hardware that will work is of paramount importance in this kind of donor environment.
PG is basically begging for the very problems they get because donors are left in the dark so much. Of course we could just decide not to donate to FAH and put the same equipment to use solving diseases where the technologies are being put to good use. AB made an excellent observation when he paralleled how Keplers are doing mighty things in the Crunching sciences vs the dismal results we are seeing from FAH.
I share your frustrations, though not directly related to the Kepler hardware issue, with PG's unresponsiveness... Can't help feel that we might end up like Tobit and his ATI cards.. we just don't know what direction they're going as far as type of hardware requirements go for the long term, and probably never will.. The DAB was supposed to help in that regard, we all know useful that turned out to be.. Choosing how one wants do donate has lots of options nowadays..crunching is just one of them. I have no illusions that PG's public relations arm actually cares about their donor base at this point in time, I really don't. The work that's getting done IS important however, so I stay. I will be resuming crunching shortly though, in a partial capacity, just because I want to.
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 12:00:43
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All excellent thoughts and feedback. I am grateful for them.   I am aware that no one has asked me to buy anything to do anything. Feel the need to make that clear, thought that was common knowledge. However... I made the personal choice. And will do it again. My point is on how many other well liked/deserving causes have adapted quickly to Kepler. F@H has not only not done that... We are getting the same excuses we have been getting for years with ATI products. Allow me to be clearer still. I switched all but one computer system to Nvidia because of Folding failing to adapt to ATI user needs. SO I went with the flow to help Humanity and our team. Now think this one through. As a person now, no one owes me anything. These are my thoughts and the process we went through to get here... - Year after year we heard ATI is in "BETA" testing. ATI is a better choice financially in my mind for gaming and horrible for folding. But I held out for as long as I could.
- F@H failed to this day to help get even close to Nvidia CUDA...
- My result, changed to Nvidia only for Folding, gaming had nothing to do with it as I was quite happy with ATI for that...
- -BigAdv changed. Had four systems banging out these with 16 hours to spare for over a year.
- They took it away. Those four systems now worked just as hard for 1/3 of the same results.
- Result... I quit wasting my CPU power on F@H and better utilized it for specific projects in BOINC because they allow for faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more flexibility and control to not only specific projects, but processors and time.
- Keplers. Read all post above for reference.
- They have not yet taken advantage of all the processing prawness of Kepler. Not even close. Yet BOINC has.
- Result. Now my GPU's have lost their value like ATI's still do not have. They are now in the same bucket. And I have no choice but to buy old hardware that is under-productive to today's abilities or look elsewhere. My seeing this as a third strike, them telling me that I am not a volunteer they are looking for.
For me, again "Personally" as I paid for my components and am looking to maximize them to what is available... What is left? - They never got ATI going. So I changed to the only other brand they support.
- They took away my CPU ability
- Now they are basically taking away the Nvidia GPU ability for anyone making the choice to move to Kepleres. There is no other brand to go to in order to keep up with the demands they are creating.
Are there projects all my parts can do? Yes. But they have systematically, for me personally, removed my desire AND most importantly ability to help in the manner "That the majority of all volunteers" can. They did this. Not me. To me, it feels like F@H is becoming a project made for those with deep pockets. Yet the main body of the true production is in those running GPU's and single CPU's. And I find this deflating and demoralizing as they continue what I see as a downward spiral away from those I have helped bring into the fold. I have "Personally" helped start no less than 11 other teams in F@H. Not EVGA mind you... But I work with a lot of business owners, and as I get to know them more and clients of mine more... I have educated them on ways they can help. So I have gone to their place of business... Setup clients... Setup visuals, educated their staff... And been a supportive go to person when they need it. One of those teams achieved 200th place in the world this year. My point... F@H is missing their targeted audience now. And if they do not recognize this situation for what it truly is before it is to late. A lot of work will go to waste. THAT is the loss in all of this. Not my wants, the reality of what they are doing to themselves is hurting the cause...
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texinga
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 12:48:40
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mflanaga
texinga
mflanaga
To be fair.. Pande Group never told people to go out and buy Kepler cards because they had a core ready to go.
Have to comment that while your are "technically" correct, it does not excuse PG from communicating to their donor-base as to what they are doing with a given hardware product. This is especially important of them to do when they are depending upon donors to go out and buy the very equipment that they depend upon for the science. I've been in Mainframe computing all my life. I can absolutely say that PGs practices would be a going-out-of-business strategy in the business world. I think talking openly and a lot more frequently about the types of hardware that will work is of paramount importance in this kind of donor environment.
PG is basically begging for the very problems they get because donors are left in the dark so much. Of course we could just decide not to donate to FAH and put the same equipment to use solving diseases where the technologies are being put to good use. AB made an excellent observation when he paralleled how Keplers are doing mighty things in the Crunching sciences vs the dismal results we are seeing from FAH.
I share your frustrations, though not directly related to the Kepler hardware issue, with PG's unresponsiveness...
Can't help feel that we might end up like Tobit and his ATI cards.. we just don't know what direction they're going as far as type of hardware requirements go for the long term, and probably never will..
The DAB was supposed to help in that regard, we all know useful that turned out to be..
Choosing how one wants do donate has lots of options nowadays..crunching is just one of them. I have no illusions that PG's public relations arm actually cares about their donor base at this point in time, I really don't. The work that's getting done IS important however, so I stay. I will be resuming crunching shortly though, in a partial capacity, just because I want to.
I saw that I needed to go back and adjust one of my sentences because I didn't intend to come across as saying that FAH wasn't important. Edit made, and you are right, it is important work. You made me laugh with that last sentence ending in "just because I want to". I hear ya and I've actually missed Crunching since going to full time Folding this past June. I too am going to re-fire some Crunching work for this team...because (to steal your line) "I want to"! If my feelings toward PG and the FAH donor structure were anything like what I have for World Community Grid, I'd have zero complaints. FAH has a lot to learn (IMO) and from those that have been close to it for years, it doesn't look like learning from your donors is something they easily embrace. That kind of attitude is a turn-off for me and I have to say that I really don't have the respect for PG that I'd like to. I'm not gonna let it get in my way though and will press-on with my work in DC wherever that leads me, because I do feel that it is all good work no matter who cures what! 
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Punchy
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 12:59:33
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Afterburner
To me, it feels like F@H is becoming a project made for those with deep pockets.
Case in point - 66% of the points production of the #1 team comes from 20 people. Those 20 produce twice as many points as the other 642 people on their team combined. Yet the main body of the true production is in those running GPU's and single CPU's.
Yes! That's how "Folding at Home" started out - using spare cycles on your existing hardware. I think the Pande Group has completely lost sight of that. If we are to use points as a yardstick of what Stanford values, then clearly they are driving towards the "server farm at home" model. Maybe that best supports their research, but people who are interested in using what they have will seek out other projects that value hardware more fairly and projects that keep up to date with technology. Oh, and I have stopped recruiting new folders from new EVGA forum members, due to the whole Kepler issue. I figure the chances are high that someone new to the forum is there due to a Kepler card, and I really don't want them to find out that the only way to fold is a bunch of manual hacks to do something that is only intended for the "beta team" anyway.
post edited by Punchy - 2012/10/12 13:45:23
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 13:27:13
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I too agree. I haven't been running crunching for a while as I wanted to assist [link=mailto:folding@evga]folding@evga[/link]. I have 2 680 's that might perform better doing some crunching...
  Folding 4 Life
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H20Cooled
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 13:41:20
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Simple fact is that F@H thinks its Hot SH!T and as such can do what ever they please. BOINC projects were able to rapidly adapt from the simple fact that they have a need for people to crunch the data, F@H does nothing to actively recruit people to fold anymore. If they really wanted people folding with GPU's they would have a bonus system for those WU's and support the latest CUDA Cores.
As we have all seen industry wide is that GPU processing is the new thing and that is why we are seeing companies put large amounts of money into the technology. CUDA has changed how things are done in the distributed computing world.
Yes there are still plenty of reasons for CPU based super computers and the likes but I can see BOINC taking over from folding in the long term unless F@H changes its Ways.
I personally had stopped folding because of all the Point value BS that F@H has thrown at everyone. Simple fact is that the Point system inplace is not a fair one, the Server issues and WU assignments are a gamble and unless you like getting crapped on F@H is not something I would recommend getting into.
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TheWolf
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 13:44:20
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Another problem I been seeing is a lot of times it will give projects to 4 core rigs that can be returned much quicker if it was ran on a 4 core + 4TH rig or even better yet a 980x 6 cores + 6 TH.
I also found out "recently" that it doesn't work to swap the WU's around to where they should have been placed in the 1st place.
Doing so gets a server will not except the WU & deletes or cleans up the work folder of a good worked WU.
Now how stupid is that? Like I said in another thread recently the FaH software scans the hardware at hand but can't make a good call as to what WU it should give to said hardware.
The 552 point value WU works at a reasonable time frame on a 4 core rig "Q9650 OC", but yet they will give it a 11xx or 12xx point WU that can take days to complete. Instead of giving that 1xxx point value to the 980x where it can be return in 7 hours instead of almost 48 hours on the Q9650 is beyond me.
PG needs to fix these problems as well or that is the way I see it.
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 13:54:18
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It is very clear that GPU folding in general is the red headed stepchild of PG. It has been since bigadv WUs came along and I don't see anything changing anytime soon. Kepler should have had a client months ago and if we ever see one I don't expect a large boost in ppd over what we are seeing out of current WUs on fermi cards.
 Main rig: gaming/folding Z68 FTW 2600k@4.2 980 Ti sc+ Dedicated folders x79 Classy/4820k 3x 970 Q9550/780i 2x 770
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mflanaga
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 13:58:02
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Punchy
Oh, and I have stopped recruiting new folders from new EVGA forum members, due to the whole Kepler issue. I figure the chances are high that someone new to the forum is there due to a Kepler card, and I really don't want them to find out that the only way to fold is a bunch of manual hacks to do something that is only intended for the "beta team" anyway.
I can't think of a sadder indictment of the whole situation...  For all the hard work you did Punchy, to have you feel as though you're leading new folders into a dead end.. Now that's just damn depressing to me. I don't blame you for stopping recruiting efforts at all given the circumstances. None of US have the power to aid the situation. Banging ones head against the wall long enough only knocks you out..
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kendrak
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 14:07:00
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Folding has always been about staying nimble to a point. Back when cheap socket A systems came out up against expensive P4 systems, everyone grabbed a bunch of those. Then dual/quad core chips came out and so did SMP. Then GPU folding came out and I had a 3x 9800GX2 rig... the thing was a beast. Then -bigadv in it's various forms. It comes down to a major shift every couple years. You just have to be ready to go where folding wants to go. There has always been "unhappiness" when a shift happens. However we adapt, some times quickly, sometimes not. In EVGA's case, you are somewhat rooted in GPU, and makes the change a bit harder. I will say the 4Ps that have been popping up over here are evidence of change happening here.
post edited by kendrak - 2012/10/12 14:16:15
Folding for the Mighty [H] Rank 10 in the Horde, 65 Worldwide Member of the 4P Mafia
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 14:42:57
(permalink)
so when it shifts back to an @home DC project we should be back on your heals  Grats on your comeback [H]
Main rig: gaming/folding Z68 FTW 2600k@4.2 980 Ti sc+ Dedicated folders x79 Classy/4820k 3x 970 Q9550/780i 2x 770
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kendrak
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 15:05:03
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-ZS-Carpenter
so when it shifts back to an @home DC project we should be back on your heals
Grats on your comeback [H]
Not sure what you mean... All my hardware is @home. You must be unfamiliar with how [H] rolls. 
Folding for the Mighty [H] Rank 10 in the Horde, 65 Worldwide Member of the 4P Mafia
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 15:16:30
(permalink)
Let's leave [H] @ [H] and speak as individuals. It is not an EVGA member's responsibility to know how one team rolls or not.
P4 systems = deep pockets. The select few, not the many.
Some responses are proof folks do not read all that is written or they would see all of the thoughts offered...
This is not about teams. This is about choices F@H folks are making that are negatively effecting all the efforts in Recruiting and Production that every member has put forth.
I certainly am not wanting another feather fluffing contest. Enough of those to go around. It is about time for us to a "Mature" conversation on this subject.
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 15:28:51
(permalink)
Another thing...
I have not once come to this or any other website announcing I am better than anyone else. Frankly I am not and consider myself very lucky to even be alive. The rest is God's Gift to me.
Why mention that? I know for a fact not one person here @ EVGA knew of my effort to help 11 other teams go from no team, to an all out team.
My choosing to tell no one including other Moderators was done deliberately. I think far to often folks measure anothers worth based off of falsehoods. In my mind, helping introduce F@H to someone is VEEEERY different than those folks becoming empowered, spreading the word, and expanding their own team as a result. They are they ones deserving the recognition.
Did I tell them about EVGA? Oh yeah. All of them run GPU's from EVGA and quite a few MOBO's as a result. However they wanted to see what production numbers they could produce from their own recruiting efforts for their own teams. I saw nothing but good things from those desires. Heck we all still win in the end do we not?
So because so many here helped me become informed about F@H, I returned that favor for our families and yours. Only now, why would I continue to be this kind of person to help out, if I am now feeling like F@H folks are in no hurry to improve the situation for themselves?
Now just stop and think... How many other members on any other team that has simply walked away and never said anything, and we wonder why they left. And now think about the "Spreading" word lost as a result... It is all compounding folks... That is a fact of life. I am publicly offering facts as to why I feel deflated as a way to help those who can make changes and make a difference.
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jkefalas
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 15:55:35
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I have to say, besides that recent hiccup we Kepler folders experienced, I have been back to folding 8018 WU's at 99% gpu and around 74% draw, for 20-21k ppd with no CPU dependency to bork my SMP's. Pretty decent. And Skyrim has never looked prettier.  . What specific problems have been most popular? Oh wait I forgot: the first rule of beta club...
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planetclown
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 16:11:23
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I get and agree with what AB has written in this thread. I was drawn to F@H because they were asking to use the spare cycles on our personal hardware that is otherwise sitting around ,and use it to help cure diseases that does or can affect many of us and our loved ones. How cool is that! Now the bigadv points seem outlandishly high compared to SMP and GPU, which is ironically what is available to most of us @home users. So you join up with what you own and watch these 4p systems sky rocket out of sight as SMP and GPU points keep going down. I know it's about the science and not points, but the downward spiral for us average Joes makes me at least feel less significant with every change.
post edited by planetclown - 2012/10/12 16:14:34
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texinga
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 16:43:54
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Guys, where do we envision this discussion can go, or are we just saying what's on our mind to get things off the chest? I'd love to think we could raise new thought and awareness in the Pande Group, but just don't see an "open mind" or even an open-minded conduit you could use. If you've ever spent much time over in FAH-land, they like to keep things within what they believe they want to do (or want to discuss). All the things we are discussing here would not be news to them and they would quickly say "we've heard it, or they've heard it", and lock the thread because it's been discussed before.
Tobit's post above (I thought) pretty well captured the environment that we have at FAH and I'd agree they don't appear to want to change. I will say that I have no idea what makes it to Vijay Pande's ears and what doesn't. The way things are filtered and controlled over in the FAH Forum, I've often questioned just what he knows from donors. Then we have the DAB and it is hard to find people that actually believe things that we raise as issues ever get the light of day. I don't recall hearing Vijay say (or write), "donors, we heard you regarding issues x,y,z and here is what we plan to do about it. You want to talk about a one-way communications mechanism or black-hole for feedback and the DAB fits that to a tee from what I've seen. That's no way to treat donors (or anyone that you depend upon ) who want to help make things better IMO.
Sooooo, where do you see us going with this thread?
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sticks435
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 16:47:52
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I agree, it's getting ridiculous over there. I get SMP work units that take 1.5 - 2.5 days on an 4.5Ghz 2500K. Every answer to every enhancement question is "soonish" or "PG doesn't give deadlines". When people complain because they are getting WU's that are way more than their hardware can do, the answer is "So sorry, assignments are random and there's nothing you can do about it, and we won't change". They seriously need to overhaul the whole damn system. As bad as it sounds, I fold till I get 350K points for the bucks and then I shut it down for the month.
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ramcharger89
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 17:23:24
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The only way you will see any change is if Companies like Nvidia or Intel start pulling funding. Or if the people in power see a 25mil. PPD deduction in wu's. I believe that a small group of people painted a picture to PG that the way to go is the P2 and P4 rigs because of the points. EVERYONE will have one or two within the next 18 to 24 months. And PG bought it. The reason they still have wu for the PS3 is because of the Dollars Sony gives to PG. NICE JOB [h] Now get back to work! Doing a wu P10127 2.87 days for 18000 points. Same rig. did almost 70,000ppd not to long ago.
post edited by ramcharger89 - 2012/10/12 17:30:41
1)CPU:Xeon 3450-CPU Cooler:Zalman 9900 Max-MB:P-55 SLI-MEM:Corsair XMS3 1600 DDR-3-HHD:WD640 BLK-GPU:2x470GTX-PSU:PC P&C-910-CASE:XCLIO Windtunnel-OS:WINDOWS7 PRO-64 Bit- BIO:74 2)CPU:i7-860-CPU Cooler:Zalman 9900 Max-MB: P-55 FTW-MEM:Corsair XMS3 1600 DDR-3-HHD: WD640 BLK- GPU:2x560ti in SLI-PSU:PC P&C-950-CASE:NZXT Hades-OS:WINDOWS7 HOME PREM-64 Bit-BIO:74 We want an unfair advantage-This is War!-ShaneD
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Tobit
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 17:35:55
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sticks435 I get SMP work units that take 1.5 - 2.5 days on an 4.5Ghz 2500K. Then you are doing something wrong. Respectfully, I have machines slower than this and they have no problem with SMP units. Most complete anywhere from 2 to 20 hours. If you want to PM me, I would be glad to help you optimize you systems.
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jkefalas
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 17:37:10
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My main question would be: are points ratioed evenly with simulation time accomplished? If so, I personally don't see a problem. Folding is technically a secondary task for the common rig - I.e. most of our rigs. When people spend extra time and money on 2p and 4p folding rigs, then at the level of justification we are talking about here, the bonus point differential is actually justified.
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planetclown
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 17:37:20
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I love the idea of being a small part in potentially finding cures to many diseases. I also think F@H has a great thing going here. I just see a disconnect from what I hear and what I see, and think it could turn people away. For example, here are some snippets from Dr. Pande from this thread over at FF in April. There are 100M GPUs out there. It would be great to get even 1% of them running FAH! PS Regarding "Why isn't F@h at the 100 petaFLOP level already?" –– I think that's a good question. If we can get 100,000 newish (~2 years old or less) GPUs, we'll be at the 100PFLOP level. That's why I put GPUs at such a high priority. If GPU's are such a high priority to the head of the project, why do ATI/AMD GPUs and Kepler support seem to take a back seat. I guess some of this is just to get it off my chest. I know it's all been said before, so I don't really know what to expect from saying it again.
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/12 17:46:33
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texinga
Sooooo, where do you see us going with this thread?
I only kept a portion of your post so that we do not get those long walls of repeated text. It has great value and I did not want that to be missed or over looked... My original intent of this thread. Simply... I am human, I can take a while to see things differently, heck I can even see things fast. However after the last few years of changes I felt it important, as one of the many positive members of our DC community, it was time to inform anyone wiling to read my post on my thoughts. And hoped to see if I was way off or somewhere in the middle (Middle ground/reasonable conclusion that other felt) with to respects to anyone input. This is why I made clear it is from me, not speaking for the team or EVGA. I hoped that EVGA members, [H] folks, and other teams may come across this thread to better get a feel for the "Overall" situation. From those posts I wanted to find a new drive/excitement or start the path of stepping aside as one of the F@H members and let the efforts of the past die a quiet death. And I hoped... Just hoped... Sense F@H cannot delete my thread or what have you... Hoped one or two folks in the position of making changes would see our feedback and at the very least become aware of those thoughts. Ultimately! They come here, post information in such a way that we feel heard. Not asking for sweeping changes... Just that they are hearing us and what they may do about it. Heck even if they aimed us to a new thread on PG and we started a "Mature" conversation on the future and possible changes needed. Moving forward, not sure. At the moment I am still undecided, and open to suggestions. To be clear.. My next thought just came to mind. And this thread has nothing to do with our Crunching efforts. This is about Kepler and F@H. However, I would not be me if I did not say.... Heck our one year anniversary of starting an official Crunching team is just around the corner come to think of it. Last I looked we are now in 150th position in the world! Maybe that is our next challenge... Chasing #1 overall instead of one project?
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