Helpful ReplyHow to find a Bottleneck?

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HeThing
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2010/08/13 11:37:44 (permalink)
Hi all,

I'm still a bit confused about this bottleneck-thing? I recently bought 3x eVGA GTX470SC's and they are now SLI'ed on my eVGA 790i ULTRA SLI motherboard. My CPU is the Intel Q9650 3000mhz at Stock, but overclocked to 4275mhz. 
On this forum a lot of people are asking if their CPU/GPU are bottlenecking the other, but how can u guys know which is the bottlenecking-part? How can I find the bottleneck on my system?

       // Hething / =EGC=KiLLingQ


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HeavyHemi
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Re:How to find a Bottleneck? 2010/08/13 11:52:04 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
hething

Hi all,

I'm still a bit confused about this bottleneck-thing? I recently bought 3x eVGA GTX470SC's and they are now SLI'ed on my eVGA 790i ULTRA SLI motherboard. My CPU is the Intel Q9650 3000mhz at Stock, but overclocked to 4275mhz. 
On this forum a lot of people are asking if their CPU/GPU are bottlenecking the other, but how can u guys know which is the bottlenecking-part? How can I find the bottleneck on my system?

      // Hething / =EGC=KiLLingQ


For your system, there isn't really much more you can do with the architecture you're using. You've pretty much maxed it out. I had a similar system to yours, I just wasn't satisfied running 470's on C2Q. So there is a choice be satisfied or....
an i7 clocked at the same speed will give you a significant performance boost...here's a nice comparison...

http://www.guru3d.com/art...me-performance-review/

Particularly this page answers your question directly with TRI SLI GTX 280's. With even more powerful GPUs like the 470 the gain is even more

http://www.guru3d.com/art...-performance-review/19
post edited by HeavyHemi - 2010/08/13 11:55:51

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20mmrain
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Re:How to find a Bottleneck? 2010/08/13 11:52:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Well A bottleneck is just a term for something that is lowering your performance potential of your computer.

For example..... if you have 3 GTX 470's in SLI....and you are running a Q9650 Quad core CPU..... your Bottleneck would be your CPU. Why because your performance of your CPU is not good enough to let all the performance of your video cards through.

Your video cards would be sending too much information through the CPU too fast to process it all before they were sending it new information.

So by Overclocking your CPU.... you would be increasing the amount of processes your CPU could accept from your video cards over an amount of time. Hence Speeding it up.

So Any Bottleneck works like this..... If you have a Computer with 1 Gig of RAM and you are running large applications.... So much so that it was too large for the the amount of RAM that have in the computer. Your CPU would have to keep accessing the Page File off the Hard Drive (Which is slower then RAM) Causing a slow down in the information access times.

Which again is a bottleneck

You see where I am going with this....It's kind of like having a large room with a small doorway and everyone trying to get out at once. If you try to throw everyone through at once obviously you will have a slow down of people trying to leave the room.  Maybe even a traffic jam of sorts. 

But if you had a larger door on that room.... More people could exit causing less of a slowdown or no slowdown at all....you could move the people through the door way much faster...... meaning getting rid of the bottle neck. 

It your situation while the Q9650 is an awesome CPU that you should be very proud of.... 3 GTX 470's might be a little large for it. 

For optimal performance ..... I would suggest an overclock of 3.4Ghz at Min and for best performance I would say 3.6 or 3.8 would be even better.

4.0Ghz would be overkill.... but the faster the CPU the better the performance.... so you could go that high as well.

Hope this helps.
post edited by 20mmrain - 2010/08/13 11:56:04

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chizow
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Re:How to find a Bottleneck? 2010/08/13 11:53:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
With your rig and multi-GPU the easiest ways to tell whether you're CPU bottlenecked are:

  • 1) Adding the 2nd, 3rd card results in little/no performance gain, poor SLI scaling at your resolution, benchmarks are all off what you're expecting.
  • 2) GPU usage in AfterBurner/Precision, if this % is low your GPUs are not working very hard.  If load on each GPU is 33% or less with 3 cards that's going to roughly be the equivalent of 1xGPU, if 50% or less with 2 cards thats going tob e roughly the equivalent of 1xGPU at 100%.
  • 3) If you increase GPU intensive settings, like AA or resolution, and you don't see any drop in FPS.  You basically get it for "free", because the GPUs can't work harder in producing more FPS, but they can use those extra GPU cycles to handle that same frame at a higher resolution or with lots more AA or advanced shader effects.  Nvidia Surround is also a good way to increase resolution nowadays instead of the previous expensive option of 2560x1600.
  • 4) Decreasing resolution and settings do not yield more FPS.  This means reducing load further on the cards still does not increase FPS because again, the CPU/game engine is already taxed and can't provide more frames to be rendered.
  • 5) Overclocking/Underclocking your CPU and running/monitoring repeatable benchmark runs to see how much difference there is in performance.  Typically people who overclock will already have overclocked to the max, so it is difficult for them to determine what happens if you add a faster CPU, but it is much easier to downclock their CPU to see what kind of impact that has on performance.  Even in very CPU demanding titles, you typically will not see linear increases in FPS with CPU speed increases, but there are some that will.  You can also keep an eye on CPU usage in Task Manager or Performance Monitor.  If any single core hits 100% consistently, you may be CPU bottlenecked.
  • 6) Overclocking/Underclocking your GPU and and running/monitoring repeatable benchmark runs to see how much difference there is in performance.  If you are not CPU limited, then you should see a near-linear increase in performance with GPU clockspeed increases.  Similarly, underclocking would as well, unless you're CPU limited, in which case underclocking wouldn't result in much drop off at all.

Those are just 6 quick ones, probably a couple more, but there are some other things to watch out for.  You want to make sure Vsync is off, as that effectively caps FPS and will limit how many frames your CPUs are rendering.  While it may be more desirable in normal  gameplay, you'll want to disable it for benching.  Also, many games have hidden frame rate caps or frame rate limiters that will accomplish similar to Vsync and limit how hard the CPU/engine works and how many frames it produces, which will in turn limit how many frames your GPUs are rendering.

In the end, if you are CPU bottlenecked, its not a huge concern, you just have extra GPU overhead to apply to other image quality enhancements like AA.  Realistically you should be shooting for whatever minimum FPS you find bearable, ideally no less than 60 at any time, then from there adjust as much AA as you can without dropping below that threshold (this is why Min FPS are so important). 

If you can do that and you're happy with your rig/games performance, then there is no need to be concerned about CPU bottlenecks.  Unfortunately, if your CPU isn't able to produce FPS at or above that threshold, then you most likely will need to address that CPU bottleneck to get things to a level that's playable to you all the time. 

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steelcowboy
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Re:How to find a Bottleneck? 2010/08/13 11:55:21 (permalink)
I upgraded from a q9550 @ 4 ghz with 780i ftw to a i7 860 @ 3.9ghz  with p55 board and my framerates doubled with a 5970.

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20mmrain
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Re:How to find a Bottleneck? 2010/08/13 11:59:58 (permalink)
steelcowboy

I upgraded from a q9550 @ 4 ghz with 780i ftw to a i7 860 @ 3.9ghz  with p55 board and my framerates doubled with a 5970.


Same here I moved from a Q9550 @ 3.6 Ghz and I know have a i5 750 @ 4.25 Ghz My FPS also Almost doubled. I Eliminated Most Any Bottle Neck that was being caused by my 3 4890's At the time.

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Re:How to find a Bottleneck? 2010/08/13 13:02:17 (permalink)
in a bottle of coke

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