ATGSteakHouse
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 10:34:36
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Maybe - but at least the issue is out now. I get a kick out of Grandpa's argument - I've told them I intend to break the rules so that makes it ok. LOL - I'm gonna start telling cops when I intend to speed - Think they'll let me off the hook if they catch me? Of course not...
He says it's for the cause but then manipulates for points - If it's for the cause I suggest letting Stanford determine what's best for the program.
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stonerhino
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 13:28:14
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ATGSteakHouse
He says it's for the cause but then manipulates for points - If it's for the cause I suggest letting Stanford determine what's best for the program.
It is stanfords call, not ours. Consider this: - We've lost folks to crunching vs folding.
- Then we've had people dropping off once they get that shiny new graphics card with their bux (No incentive for them to stay once they get that new toy).
- We've lost folks because their rigs overheat due to the stress. They'd rather quit than downclock.
- People stop because its getting expensive. Summer rates are already starting here and its not even summer!
On the note of the last item, I am looking at foreclosure within the next 60 days and will likely have to be out of the house by August. I have an unemployed mother who's income was paying the mortgage, but now thats come to an end. My personal health takes up 94% of my income. So, my main rig at home is getting shut off at any available opportunity (-22k PPD).
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kram36
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 13:33:50
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stonerhino
ATGSteakHouse
He says it's for the cause but then manipulates for points - If it's for the cause I suggest letting Stanford determine what's best for the program.
It is stanfords call, not ours.
Consider this:
- We've lost folks to crunching vs folding.
- Then we've had people dropping off once they get that shiny new graphics card with their bux (No incentive for them to stay once they get that new toy).
- We've lost folks because their rigs overheat due to the stress. They'd rather quit than downclock.
- People stop because its getting expensive. Summer rates are already starting here and its not even summer!
On the note of the last item, I am looking at foreclosure within the next 60 days and will likely have to be out of the house by August. I have an unemployed mother who's income was paying the mortgage, but now thats come to an end. My personal health takes up 94% of my income. So, my main rig at home is getting shut off at any available opportunity (-22k PPD).
That looks to me as the biggest hit to the EVGA folding team. Sorry to hear of your unfortunate circumstances. 
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stonerhino
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 13:40:40
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Didnt mean to hijack thread with my woes, but thanks.
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 14:33:26
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I thought it was about the work not the points, but then [h] turns around to work on hacks to get more points, not finish more WUs. For me personally, the changes from Stanford have really effected my output, since they won't let me run bigadv unless I run Linux I care a lot less. If I get this right I donate and you dictate? Sad really, then to top it off I switched from the 580s to a water cooled 680 and it won't fold. Not to mention Jedi's tracker program is super easy to use and the client 7 in win7, not so much. Instead of wasting the time, why didn't they just throw Jedi a few bones and get a real program?
post edited by DeepPurple23 - 2012/04/30 16:57:52
 Main rig: i7 4820, Water cooled, 1000HX, eVGA x58 Classy 3, 16 GBs Corsair Dominato, eVGA GTX 980HC 24/7 folding rig: i7 2600K OC'd to 4.5 GHz, Armageddon cooler, eVGA P67 FTW, 8GB Corsair Vengence 1600. eVGA GTX 580 HC2, PSU 750TX My Affiliate Code: P0RALLKODM
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 14:50:48
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kram36
stonerhino
- We've lost folks to crunching vs folding.
That looks to me as the biggest hit to the EVGA folding team.
No it is not. Of course it is part of it, no doubt. But even then, look at the totals. We are still pumping away as we should... Please see this as a fellow member who is just voicing thoughts on it. Not a bash or anything like that. You do realize, that most that left folding made that decision and announced it BEFORE we started Crunching? It is "The" reason I started the thread asking if we should build a team. THEN we started a team and as folks followed through with their reasons to leave folding they started Crunching. They did not "Leave" Folding to go Crunching. I do not appreciate this being used as an excuse or offered in a negative way. This was a way to not only expand our reach, and offerings to those looking for more or a change, it allows us to stay together as a team, and to help stop what has happened the previous four years where folks just left... Crunching is HUGE with all the other top teams. Yet we do not see them use it as an excuse. Crunching is similar to Folding yet has a lot more to offer to every single person and the equipment they have to offer. Using it as a fall guy is just a waste of time. [H] is #5 in the world with the tracker we are using. Yet there they are running us down... Instead of dissing those that chose to help build our team to bigger better heights, they should be congratulated for being such a small Army of willing people from around the world that have taken a team from dead last to # 18 in the world... It is time to quit with the excuses and look for more folders. http://www.dc-vault.com/showscores.php
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 15:04:36
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that's what I say....AB
In fact Id go one farther to say that crunching can bring new members to folding
If for an instance we would get away from finger pointing and blame for the folding teams woes.
if you want it to change then get involved with
1. getting new members - recruitment
2, quick blaming/finger-pointing
3. build bridges to those we have lost and try to get them back
4. have sub-forums teams that visit other smaller teams to bump up their numbers - make a few friends...maybe bring some back here to join our team/cause
5. help out when you can in the forums - friendly help goes a long way
6. above all - think of the team as a family -
"you don't expect to crap over the family and expect them to love you"
if you want to create your own mess then you have to sleep in it
it's that simple
if you create a great place to be..."they will come"
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 15:27:40
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kram36
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 15:40:43
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Ok, whatever. I disagree and knew this was going to be an issue to the teams bottom line numbers when you introduced it AB. I understand you defending it because you're the one that introduced it and pushed crunching from the start, but you can't disprove reality.
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texinga
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 16:04:48
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Let's keep it together here fellas and above all still be the great "team" that we are. As one of those that did get disappointed with how PG was treating Folders (mostly the poor communications/decisions), I was definitely on my way out as a Folder. I was ready to quit Folding way before AB offered to create the Crunching Team. I can say, had he not done that, I probably would have exited DC all together at that time. But here's the good part. Joining the Crunching team gave me somewhere to rest up and basically get over my feelings toward PG. Over time, I saw how your guys that mostly Fold came in and helped the Crunching team with some quests. That meant a lot to me and also spoke to me about how I should be willing to return that favor to our Folding team. So, now I do both and am actually a more satisfied person in DC than before. So yes, you could say that my individual Folding contribution is reduced from what it used to be. But without the Crunching team, it would have gone away entirely. I can only speak for myself on this, but wanted to share it for what its worth. Fold-on my Bros and don't get down about where we are today. This team is still great, has lots of potential, has the best contests on the planet, best people and IMO has retained all the good things that matter whether our points are the same or not. Peace... 
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kram36
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 16:11:40
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PG has left a bad taste in my mouth a time or two also, but they do have a lot on their plate to deal with.
I was more annoyed by a pm I received from troy8d back during the TZC, which made me stop folding for a bit. I came back though, hopefully some you that have left will come back also.
I'm not here to argue, I just don't blow smoke up people rears on reality.
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stonerhino
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 16:14:40
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If I offended anyone who crunches, my apologies.
The list of things I compiled were from observations of comments and rantings on this forum.
People switched because of the poor output (low ppd, long tpf) and overheating issues when the 803x's came out.
Those that downclocked and stuck with the 803x's were highly rewarded for their work with a hefty 10k to 24k ppd bump.
Two people I've brought to team evga have gotten their shiny new 560 Ti's and just bailed, never to fold again. I've attempted to coerce their morals to do it in the name of science, but I get the STFU instead.
I run a 750w psu (90 gold cert). Although I only use 400w of it, its a super efficient folder for what little power it consumes. That skews my electrical bill a total of 18$/mo. My media center pulls a total of 220w as its power management is set to throttle back as hard as possible. This combined in a 12x6x7 ft room with the sun shining on it 78% of the day equals a very expensive cooling bill during the summer. The central HVAC costs 250$/mo to run cooling and is only a half-ton unit (retardedly inefficient).
Again these are observations recorded from personal experiences and comments on the forums.
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 16:21:46
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kram36
Ok, whatever. I disagree and knew this was going to be an issue to the teams bottom line numbers when you introduced it AB. I understand you defending it because you're the one that introduced it and pushed crunching from the start, but you can't disprove reality.
Hey no problem at all kram... This might help just a little bit. I am knee deep in it and have been from day one as you have suggested. I am only trying to offer a different point of view and remove incorrect and or demeaning information. Because it is absolutely false that Crunching is the main issue. Take a look at this link. And then come back and tell me it is "Crunchers" that have caused our F@H issues. See how few are actually producing? Look at the production numbers... http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=team&proj=bwcg&team=28262 It is time to stop bashing our fellow brothers and sisters and embrace their personal choices. As they too will be here to help all of us for the long hall. *Edit* Dang it I hit the send button before I was done! hahahaha... Anyway... Look at our ranks. We have had 12,618 folders on our team from inception. Today only 895 are producing. Now tell me. Did Crunching take the other 11,723 "Inactive" members? No it has not. Smoke screen removed...
The thing to do is what ever you can and are willing to do. I have my own reasons why I am choosing to not help Stanford like I had. It is folks like us that make this a fun place to be and I am darn glad to be a part of this team. We just need to keep doing the good we can do. That way Cancer loses instead of us...
post edited by Afterburner - 2012/04/30 16:28:58
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kram36
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 16:33:42
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I'm not bashing anyone who is crunching for starters.
I'm only saying what the truth is and your link to crunching numbers does nothing to disprove it. You are always quick to jump in and say crunching has nothing to do with points declining in the folding team, when it has taken numbers away from folding. It's the denial from you that I'm pointing out.
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tanner2
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 16:38:55
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Well I was backing off folding before AB started the crunching forum. I liked what I saw in crunching and swung the rigs over to it. Thanks AB, would not have had the fun of crunching if not for you. The time off from folding helped me get over my pride. Made a new rig to add to the rest and now fold more then I ever did before crunching by over 2 times and still crunch everyday too. No matter what thanks AB for the crunching!!! AND thanks to all the people that make folding happen here too!!!
post edited by tanner2 - 2012/04/30 16:40:28
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ATGSteakHouse
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 16:45:54
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^^^ Hard to argue with that AB... Beyond that - putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea...
Also as a heads up Kram - It doesn't help EVGA Folding when you run around bad mouthing EVGA hardware. The only reason I know, participate for the Crunching/Folding Teams here is I bought an EVGA Motherboard way back when. Now I Crunch on 5 EVGA Motherboards.
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 16:47:02
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kram36
I'm not bashing anyone who is crunching for starters.
I'm only saying what the truth is and your link to crunching numbers does nothing to disprove it. You are always quick to jump in and say crunching has nothing to do with points declining in the folding team, when it has taken numbers away from folding. It's the denial from you that I'm pointing out.
Sorry you think that way. I refuse to stay in the negative world. I am darn proud of everyone. My info is what it is. You have chosen your path. And others can make their own opinions from the info offered. 11,723 folders are not now Crunching. Otherwise we would be #1 in the world already. I appreciate what you do for us in folding regardless.
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kram36
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 16:58:59
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ATGSteakHouse
^^^ Hard to argue with that AB... Beyond that - putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea...
Also as a heads up Kram - It doesn't help EVGA Folding when you run around bad mouthing EVGA hardware. The only reason I know, participate for the Crunching/Folding Teams here is I bought an EVGA Motherboard way back when. Now I Crunch on 5 EVGA Motherboards.
Once again, the EVGA X79 motherboard deal. I only responded to the truth of my experience with EVGA X79 motherboards which is what the op wanted the thread you're talking about. EVGA is 0 for 2 on brand new working X79 motherboards for me. Add to that EVGA said if you bought the board directly from them they would come with the latest bios. I gave EVGA another chance and recommended the X79 SLi board for a customer build and told them specifically to order it from EVGA, they did and it came with a bad bios. Heads up to you, I didn't cause EVGA to put out bad bios's on their X79 motherboards and I truthfully gave the op my experience with their X79 motherboards. About time you get over that. 
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ATGSteakHouse
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 17:26:02
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kram36
ATGSteakHouse
^^^ Hard to argue with that AB... Beyond that - putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea...
Also as a heads up Kram - It doesn't help EVGA Folding when you run around bad mouthing EVGA hardware. The only reason I know, participate for the Crunching/Folding Teams here is I bought an EVGA Motherboard way back when. Now I Crunch on 5 EVGA Motherboards.
Once again, the EVGA X79 motherboard deal. I only responded to the truth of my experience with EVGA X79 motherboards which is what the op wanted the thread you're talking about. EVGA is 0 for 2 on brand new working X79 motherboards for me. Add to that EVGA said if you bought the board directly from them they would come with the latest bios. I gave EVGA another chance and recommended the X79 SLi board for a customer build and told them specifically to order it from EVGA, they did and it came with a bad bios.
Heads up to you, I didn't cause EVGA to put out bad bios's on their X79 motherboards and I truthfully gave the op my experience with their X79 motherboards. About time you get over that.
If you want to offer your experience fine - it's entirely different to say something like this - kram36 " EVGA got their rear handed to them on the X79 boards by ASUS whether you want to face the facts or not." ^^^ You post that over a bad bios and a temporary problem with a SSD Drive - both of which have been resolved. That's not your experience - that's an opinion - and the wrong one at that. How many people have you steered toward Asus and who are they folding for now? I'm not here to argue, I just don't blow smoke up people rears on reality. You accuse AB of something while you potentially do the same...
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kram36
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ATGSteakHouse
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 17:35:05
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kram36 EVGA did get their rear handed to them by ASUS on the X79 motherboards and that's the truth. 
I've had my say on AB and the denial of points impact on the folding team. 
Wrong again Kram - I think you need to re-evaluate EVGA's broadening distributed computing effort - EVGA's X-79 Lineup - And most of all the way you treat fellow EVGA members.
post edited by ATGSteakHouse - 2012/04/30 17:37:15
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 17:39:02
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kram36
I've had my say on AB and the denial of points impact on the folding team.
Well so be it. Sense you want to keep bring it up... Your denial and complete disregard for facts shows all I and others who are here trying to "Actually help" rather than just be a negative influence, need to know. Facts are facts, your opinion has been heard and your idea of facts, discredited. Folks should be looking for the good in people and the offerings that are here. Instead a few just like to argue and pick fights. And that is just sad. As for the rest, stay on topic ATG and kram. This is not a thread about an X79. Thank you...
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kram36
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 17:45:47
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Afterburner
kram36
I've had my say on AB and the denial of points impact on the folding team.
Well so be it. Sense you want to keep bring it up... Your denial and complete disregard for facts shows all I and others who are here trying to "Actually help" rather than just be a negative influence, need to know. Facts are facts, your opinion has been heard and your idea of facts, discredited.
Folks should be looking for the good in people and the offerings that are here. Instead a few just like to argue and pick fights. And that is just sad.
As for the rest, stay on topic ATG and kram. This is not a thread about an X79. Thank you...
I'm being negative? Not at all, just stating what I have seen and you always come in and say crunching has not affected points on the folding team. Doesn't matter to me whether people crunch or fold as you said it's all good.
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troy8d
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 17:58:02
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Afterburner
Anyway... Look at our ranks. We have had 12,618 folders on our team from inception. Today only 895 are producing.
Now tell me. Did Crunching take the other 11,723 "Inactive" members? No it has not. Smoke screen removed...
While you generally have a valid point of view on the topic of Crunching AB , this particular line of reasoning is far too deceptive in nature. Yes, a lot of people are in the inactive folders category. Anyone that has ever folded a single WU and hasn't done so recently is in that category. Over the course of 5+ years of folding, it is bound to happen - especially with the EVGA Bucks program that incentivizes people to give folding a try. Many do, and find that it is not for them or they cannot sustain it in the long run. Furthermore, [H] has more inactive folders than we do! Whats even more remarkable about this is that they have an inactive to active ratio of 24.4 to 1 whereas EVGA has an ratio of 13.1 to 1. Thus, if we continue to follow this line of reasoning [H] would be even further ahead if it could retain its inactives at the same rate EVGA currently does, and even more so if both teams continued to decrease the ratio below that. Please do not think of this as an attack on Crunching - just a clarification on this one point. Its near impossible to in good conscience deny that Crunching has decreased our overall folding production - the numbers speak for themselves. But this is not a bad thing! Yes, some people would have left folding anyway, but others simply weren't aware of the other great opportunities crunching offers and this revelation lea them to try it and find that crunching has a lot to offer as well. What is wrong is to say that Crunching is responsible for the fact that EVGA is being outproduced by [H]. While there has been some decline in folding due to the expansion into Crunching, it is impossible to determine the degree. It is clear that with or without Crunching we would still be being outproduced by [H]. The fact is - this trend first emerged in July/August of last year long before Crunching began. More significantly, there are a large number of other factors that come into play - the most significant being [H]'s ramp up of production through adding hardware as well as seasoned folders to their team. The incessant in-fighting within EVGA is also a more worrisome issue than crunching. People valuing point structure rather than science also is a recent trend on this team that is counterproductive. Crunching is here to stay, and that's a good thing. These points, of course, echo what many have said above. If we want to turn this ship around, we need to come together as a team and get back to why we all got involved in this great cause in the first place. As XZ said above, assigning blame and pointing fingers isn't going to get us anywhere. Crunch 'em, Fold 'em, whatever floats your boat... EDIT: removed a few typos.
post edited by troy8d - 2012/04/30 18:07:15
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 19:13:39
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Troy... I am NOT being deceptive. Allow me to show you a post in this thread you overlooked... http://forums.evga.com/fb.ashx?m=1573025 And what did I say right away in it??? "No it is not. Of course it is part of it, no doubt. " Yet it seems that is being overlooked. To many times people come into these conversations without reading all of what was already written. I wonder if that was the case here?  All of everything else you said as far as I am concerned is exactly what I am am and others are saying. I am just adding the main reason for the other teams catching us or our decline in F@H is not mainly do to Crunching. There are MANY contributing reasons. But to say one is the main one when it is not, is all I am trying to clear up. I also find it rather convenient another comment of mine is consistently ignored... "Many other teams including [H] have been Crunching for years" Yet there they are still coming on strong. My point. Crunching or Chrunchers are simply not the issue. They can be and are a part of the solution. And that is a fact no wall of text or smoke screen can change. And here is another point conveniently getting ignored... Where are the other 11,600 people (Removed 123 Crunchers) if Crunching is the "Main" reason for F@H's demise? That's right.. Attrition and folks making changes. So please allow me to offer the same thing that you and others have accurately said, but with my own tasty twist... We need to have a great time with growing. And focus on the positive things this team has done and will do. We have Cancer to Kill...
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troy8d
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 19:31:00
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I was only referring specifically to the "inactive folder" reference you made. In my opinion it is completely irrelevant to the issues at hand and is part of every folding team that has been around any significant period of time. I was not contradicting any other point you made. I almost double posted to point out that you acknowledged the fact that Crunching has an impact, and that your primary argument is that it is not the major cause ( you made the post you reference as I was typing my own). At the time I started typing, #75 was the last post in the thread. I didn't intend to imply that you were denying Crunching played a role, though it may have appeared that was because I did not read the post you referenced until after I had made mine.
post edited by troy8d - 2012/04/30 19:37:42
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ATGSteakHouse
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 19:32:38
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Amen to that AB. Hence - why we need to fold and crunch - we need to help ALL Scientist.
post edited by ATGSteakHouse - 2012/04/30 19:34:41
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 20:12:45
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troy8d
All good Troy  We said the same thing. I just offered it differently. All 11,723 folks that are no longer folding did not go Crunching, they are natural attrition. We just came to the same intersection down a different path  Thank you for all you do...
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/04/30 22:44:51
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come on team!!!... we have a couple of contests comin up!!
get your fingers typing, post in other forums, tweet, update your facebook, blog, mingle with neighbors,friends, family, collegues and "GROW THIS TEAM"
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tanner2
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Re:this is damn depressing
2012/05/01 03:02:07
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If it helps I think I will have a 1.3m day today 
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