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Helpful ReplymITX X79 boards possible?

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drchoi21
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2013/09/21 15:44:51 (permalink)
I just though of this other day, and I think I should share it
behold X79 mITX - Quad Channel - up 12 cores Ivy-EP support
 - PCIe 3.0 16
 - 3 Intel NICs
 - 6 rear USB 3.0
 - laptop DIMMs
 - Support up to DDR3 2133 (O.C) 32 GB Non ECC/ Unbuffered RAM
 - built-in nVidia 730M for basic monitor support
Artist's Render (In this case, me)


Supposed Configuration


#1
lehpron
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/09/21 16:26:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby drchoi21 2013/09/21 17:57:59
I think people forget almost anything is possible, it is just a matter of money; and the smallest X79 board I've seen was in a Shuttle barebone:

 
Where the mobo+chassis+PSU was $600 at debut, so the board itself would have been around $450-500.  So to make an even smaller X79 board, the cost would be well north of $500 and explains why it doesn't already exist: Demand is very weak and doesn't pay for the party, so to speak.
 
I have thought of this for a long time, and I've come to a different set of conclusions that maybe you can entertain:
 
  1. Since your four SO-DIMMs barely fit in your current configuration, have you considered putting them on the solder (back) side?  The X79-based Clevo notebook computer uses four SO-DIMMs on the back of the mainboard.  It would save some space and make it easier to install, versus your current configuration.
  2. The standard LGA2011 socket isn't the only one, there is a narrower version specifically meant for certain server boards to pack in as CPUs as possible with an array of boards (the goal isn't to use all the PCIe lanes, these boards often have just one PCIe x16 3.0 slot).  In fact, the narrow LGA2011 might allow for you to put four full-size DIMMs in the mini-ITX board, just image cutting off about half the Supermicro board that I linked.  Download the manual and get a larger picture of the board to inspire your creativity.  Let's see what you come up with.

    • Whereas the standard LGA2011 is 80x80mm for the screw retention measured at the centers, the narrow is 56x94mm.  The Clevo X79 laptop also uses a narrow socket.
 
Just so you know, that Supermicro slim dual-LGA2011 board sells for $400, it is the premium for the form factor as the same cost in EATX can give you more PCIe x16 slots.
 
Edit:  You know, if you could tap into a market that only cared for x86 computational workload with no need for PCIe, then the narrow socket plus SODIMMs could enable nano-ITX form factor, which is 120 x 120 mm-- an even smaller board where the socket and chipset takes up the space on one side with the RAM on the other.  At least hypothetically it would be awesome, IMO.  Here's an image of nanoITX, and the slot on the left is a PCIe x1, and looks huge compared to the board.
post edited by lehpron - 2013/09/21 16:51:40

For Intel processors, 0.122 x TDP = Continuous Amps at 12v [source].  

Introduction to Thermoelectric Cooling
#2
drchoi21
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/09/21 17:11:34 (permalink)
@lephron
I actually used laptop DIMMs, for my 3D version of X79 mITX, I would prefer not to put the laptop DIMMs under because the space between some cases and the motherboard isn't large enough to put these 32GB of goodness. Actually, I designed this board for bragging/serious powerhouse/server/record breaker for having the most power in smallest board, I knew that the narrower version already existed, but I didn't use it because I tried it, and full sized DIMMs were too much, that It didn't have space for chipset and USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Controllers. but thanks for suggestion
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drchoi21
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/09/21 17:18:56 (permalink)

X79 mITX V2!
8 laptop DIMMs, up to 64GB support for Non ECC/ Unbuffered, up to 256GB for ECC/Buffered
Xeon E5 2600V2/ 4600V2 Support added. Core i7 Extreme/Core i7 support
Separate PCIe 100MHz and CPU FSB - overclocking to the max
4 SATA III, 4 SATA II for RAID 0/1/5/10 support
VRM, Capacitators, redesigned.
 
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drchoi21
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/09/21 17:57:52 (permalink)

Oh dear, I think I'm having crazy ideas today with my Sketchup.
C602 mITX(Server) Red - SATA III, Black - SATA II, White - SAS 6GBps. Up to 26 drives. RAID 0/1/5/10 support
Linux/Windows compatibility
Up to 200W CPU support.
Built-in Intel HD 4000 for display.
Separate Audio Needed
 
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drchoi21
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/09/21 18:27:06 (permalink)
Just fictional - not affiliated with EVGA or any logo.
EVGA X79 Terror-Byte
"It doesn't sting, it bites."
2+8pin CPU power for +5GHz overclock
24 pin + molex connector for overclocking RAM
EVGA LED logo Red/Green/Blue
Separate PCIe 100MHz and CPU FSB - overclocking E5 Xeons / only changes CPU's BCLK.
4 Intel NIC for powerful LAN party

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lehpron
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/09/21 18:56:13 (permalink)
So mounting single-sided DDR3 SO-DIMMs like this wouldn't have worked on the solder side with enough distance for typical standoffs?  I'd probably sacrifice a lot of make it work, lol.
 

 
It is very different from vertical SO-DIMM connectors which are actually much thicker than you have it:
 

 
Chipsets sure take up space, though I'm pretty sure in the future, the pure CPU and APU types will evolve into SoC's where all chipsets are in the same die as the CPU x86 packages.  This would/should enable smaller high-end form factors.  But while Intel put voltage regulators in Haswell, motherboard manufacturers still put more on the board to justify the unnecessary heatsinks surrounding the socket of most LGA1150 boards.  There is technically no need for them, which could save even more space, at least if you weren't overclocking.

For Intel processors, 0.122 x TDP = Continuous Amps at 12v [source].  

Introduction to Thermoelectric Cooling
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drchoi21
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/09/21 19:18:02 (permalink)
It's just that it's hard to replace once you lay down the mobo, so I'm also considering on upgradable configurations, lets say you have SO-DIMM, than it wouldn't matter, but as user upgrades things like RAM and CPU, it has to easily accessible for maintenance.
BTW, I'm also working on nanoITX X79
Edited: updated

post edited by drchoi21 - 2013/09/21 19:57:37
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lehpron
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/09/23 16:17:25 (permalink)
I have to say your nano-ITX LGA2011 is absolutely gorgeous, if really wish it were an option, even if the board itself were $600.  Although I'd make/request changes to the layout at the risk of upping the value.
  1. I'd still opt for placing the SO-DIMMs on the back, I don't do mid-term upgrades so lack of easy upgrading is mute.  I'd install once and leave it that way for years, except to clean for dust.
  2. I'd eliminate the PCIe slot altogether and opt for an External PCI Express port on the I/O side, so I can connect up to one x16 card externally per port.  Though the x16 ports are bigger than the DVI ports, and deeper than 6-channel audio ports; multiple will require a bigger board and ironically have room for embedded PCIe x16 slots.  
  3. As for I/O, I'd only need Ethernet with no video ports.  If having the External PCIe, then I can connect any number of whatever add-in cards I need.  Or through Ethernet, have an array of boards connected in a cluster.  
  4. I'm on the fence with USB and audio ports in I/O since those pins will be embedded in the board anyway; so for me, it would be either one or the other.  Though I prefer less I/O ports visible and/or laid out in a flat profile.  I love the clean and empty look, it becomes prime candidacy for smaller form factors.  I couldn't careless how thick the PCB ends up, whether they are 16-layer or 20-layer; if I was actually in the market for something like this, I'd be in "spared no expense" mode.  You know, whatever needs to be done.
But the only way LGA2011 can get smaller than nano-ITX would probably require soldering and removing the socket.  Here's an example of picoITX, it is ridiculously tiny-- although an Ivy-EP 12-core would take up one-third of the board space while the chipset and I/O takes the other.  I don't think there is room for four SO-DIMMs, on either side, unless high-density RAM chips themselves were soldered on.  Cooling for small boards are debatable, while vapor-chambers are more effective in SFF since they are used in graphics cards but not in CPU tower-based cooling, a custom motherboard waterblock isn't far-fetched. 
 
Although a Haswell quad-core or upcoming Broadwell quad-core would definitely be small enough to still allow SO-DIMMs, since you only need two; but then you need at least a mini-DisplayPort for the IGP.  Screw the larger traditional VGA, DVI, and HDMI ports.  But do keep an Ethernet and external PCIe port, or find a way.
  
I'm all for beating stereotypically and generally accepted form factors into the ground, I don't believe high-end has to be big.  So thank you, drchoi21, for entertaining me and I'd like to think it was mutual.

For Intel processors, 0.122 x TDP = Continuous Amps at 12v [source].  

Introduction to Thermoelectric Cooling
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drchoi21
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/09/23 18:43:11 (permalink)
You wanted Pico ITX?
Well here it is!


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kubi07
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/09/25 07:35:12 (permalink)
Wow it would be amazing to make a super powerful mITX build with that Shuttle board.

 
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tonschk
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/10/20 02:56:41 (permalink)
Very good idea, nice EVGA smaller X79 form factor, please drchoi21  remember that the PCIe slots MUST be parallel to the RAM/DIMM slots, and NOT perpendicular  
#

 
 
post edited by tonschk - 2013/10/20 03:02:49

  
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drchoi21
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/10/20 15:27:15 (permalink)
no, all mATX motherboards have perpendicular RAM slots
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lehpron
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/10/20 15:45:42 (permalink)
No, he meant that all LGA2011 boards, extreme desktop or server, happen to have the arraignment of two pairs of DIMMs on either side...almost as if Intel had done the math on which arraignment with the least tracer length was optimally aligned with the DDR3 controller in the CPU.
 
You can arrange them any way you like, it just may add expense if you were to put it together.  For instance, the Clevo laptop which uses the LGA2011 socket has two SODIMMs laid flat on the socket side, one on the solder side and one more on the end of the board-- of course the board isn't a typical rectangular since it goes in a laptop and must make all the necessary sacrifices to get that type of platform into a 14" x 2" x 8" form factor w/battery and heatsinks for the CPU + two graphics cards.

For Intel processors, 0.122 x TDP = Continuous Amps at 12v [source].  

Introduction to Thermoelectric Cooling
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tonschk
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/10/20 23:24:54 (permalink)
 The RAM/DIMM slots parallel to the PCIe slots looks better and is more tidy layout, even the 24 pins connector must be parallel to the slots

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-102-AK
 
drchoi21
no, all mATX motherboards have perpendicular RAM slots




post edited by tonschk - 2013/10/20 23:33:20

  
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tonschk
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Re: mITX X79 boards possible? 2013/11/01 01:14:27 (permalink)
Asrock is making very nice microATX boards lately
 

 
drchoi21
no, all mATX motherboards have perpendicular RAM slots





  
PC Power&Cooling 910W Silencer, I just LOVE this high quality and built to last PSU 
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