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sli... physx question(s)...

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uncle poop
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2012/02/29 08:12:37 (permalink)
so since my build is on hold right now sue to some unforeseen circumstances... and since i changed my graphics card from a gtx580 classified to 2 gtx560's... so i figured i would try to get some more information about these things... these are put in simple terms because i'm a simple guy...
 
ok so sli from what i was told and understand it is... it makes one card faster it does not double the memory of the card... each card does different jobs splitting the workload...
 
from what i know of physx is that it makes in game objects react differently to different effects... things like explosions, bullet shots near or at a movable object will cause that object to move... and physx allows that object to react differently to those effects... if i'm wrong please correct me...
 
i've been looking at people's benchmarking and comments about their systems.... i noticed a few of them had 2 or 3 cards in sli and a seperate physx card... during benchmarking there were mentions that when the physx card was used the scores were lower...
 
so i'm wondering about physx and sli.... can sli cards utilize physx? do you need a seperate card for physx? does physx hurt performance that much? what i mean is if i get a card for physx will my fps drop to where it's noticeable?
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    _MatthewH
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    Re:sli... physx question(s)... 2012/02/29 08:26:07 (permalink)
    SLI cards can use physx, most benchmarks don't use physx (3dmark11 for example) thus your score can be lower since your system still has to communicate with the card but it is not factored into your score. For games like batman, metro 2033, and others that use physx a dedicated card should yield better performance.

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    Kanti
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    Re:sli... physx question(s)... 2012/02/29 08:26:57 (permalink)
    I've read that 3x gpus are best for SLI in order to get rid of the micro stutter.  I'm not sure how well two cards in SLI will handle Physx, it is my understanding that they work as one card, so neither will work specifically as a PhysicsProcessingUnit.  U use my original GPU for dedicated physics, a GTS 250 I picked up for $80.  Many say that a single high end card ought to do fine with physics, but I'm not sure since I don't have a GTX  580.
     
    My single GTX 560 Ti struggles badly with processing gfx and physx, Batman AA for me is unplayable with the aid of the dedicated physx card.   


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    CraptacularOne
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    Re:sli... physx question(s)... 2012/02/29 09:11:41 (permalink)
    uncle poop

    so since my build is on hold right now sue to some unforeseen circumstances... and since i changed my graphics card from a gtx580 classified to 2 gtx560's... so i figured i would try to get some more information about these things... these are put in simple terms because i'm a simple guy...

    ok so sli from what i was told and understand it is... it makes one card faster it does not double the memory of the card... each card does different jobs splitting the workload...

    from what i know of physx is that it makes in game objects react differently to different effects... things like explosions, bullet shots near or at a movable object will cause that object to move... and physx allows that object to react differently to those effects... if i'm wrong please correct me...

    i've been looking at people's benchmarking and comments about their systems.... i noticed a few of them had 2 or 3 cards in sli and a seperate physx card... during benchmarking there were mentions that when the physx card was used the scores were lower...

    so i'm wondering about physx and sli.... can sli cards utilize physx? do you need a seperate card for physx? does physx hurt performance that much? what i mean is if i get a card for physx will my fps drop to where it's noticeable?

    SLI does not make "one card faster" what it does is increase the rendering power available to a game by splitting the workload between them. Most commonly used today is a technique called alternate frame rendering. What happens is that if you took the frames and numbered them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...ect. The top card would be rendering the odd numbered frames 1, 3, 5...ect while the bottom card would be doing the even numbered frames 2, 4, 6...ect.
     
    Having a card dedicated to PhysX will help but only in PhysX supported games like Batman AC, Mafia II and Cryostasis. However most do not make any use of Nvidia's GPU PhysX so if you play games like Battlefield or Call of Duty you will get no performance benefit since the PhysX card is doing nothing in those games.
     
    Regarding benchmarks, I'm sure you're referring to 3Dmark Vantage in it's hugely misunderstood PhysX test. All that the test in Vantage is measuring is the PhysX performance of your selected PhysX processor, nothing more. It is not an accurate measurement of how your system will perform in a game. The reason is simple, say for instance you have 2 GTX580s in SLI and a dedicated GTX460 for PhysX. Of course the GTX580 is going to be faster at processing PhysX than the GTX460 as it has 512 cores vs 336. So when that test is run in Vantage your PhysX benchmark is lower than if you had selected your GTX580 as the PhysX processor. However therein lies the problem that most people don't understand. Your system, when playing a GPU PhysX enabled game will not be faster if you had left one of your GTX580's to do PhysX. It will in fact be faster in that game if you left your GTX460 to do the PhysX. Because in a game, there is much more going on than just PhysX calculations. The GPUs have to render complex 3D images, with multiple light sources, post processing effects, multi pass texture mapping....ect. And if you lump in PhysX calculations it's yet another task your GPU has to complete. It's also important to note that your GPU cannot process both PhysX and 3D game data at the same time. It must completely stop one task to do the other. Now of course this happens very quickly but it's yet another burden placed on your GPU. Removing this from your main GPU or GPUs and offloading it to a separate GPU can speed up the whole process.
     
    Now on to your last question. Do you "need" a dedicated PhysX card? No, you do not. Your GTX560's are perfectly capable of processing both like I mention above, but there is a performance penalty for it. If you're playing games that use PhysX and play them a lot, then that's where having a dedicated PhysX card will make sense.

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    Re:sli... physx question(s)... 2012/02/29 09:27:34 (permalink)
    CraptacularOne

    SLI does not make "one card faster" what it does is increase the rendering power available to a game by splitting the workload between them. Most commonly used today is a technique called alternate frame rendering. What happens is that if you took the frames and numbered them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...ect. The top card would be rendering the odd numbered frames 1, 3, 5...ect while the bottom card would be doing the even numbered frames 2, 4, 6...ect.

    Having a card dedicated to PhysX will help but only in PhysX supported games like Batman AC, Mafia II and Cryostasis. However most do not make any use of Nvidia's GPU PhysX so if you play games like Battlefield or Call of Duty you will get no performance benefit since the PhysX card is doing nothing in those games.

    Regarding benchmarks, I'm sure you're referring to 3Dmark Vantage in it's hugely misunderstood PhysX test. All that the test in Vantage is measuring is the PhysX performance of your selected PhysX processor, nothing more. It is not an accurate measurement of how your system will perform in a game. The reason is simple, say for instance you have 2 GTX580s in SLI and a dedicated GTX460 for PhysX. Of course the GTX580 is going to be faster at processing PhysX than the GTX460 as it has 512 cores vs 336. So when that test is run in Vantage your PhysX benchmark is lower than if you had selected your GTX580 as the PhysX processor. However therein lies the problem that most people don't understand. Your system, when playing a GPU PhysX enabled game will not be faster if you had left one of your GTX580's to do PhysX. It will in fact be faster in that game if you left your GTX460 to do the PhysX. Because in a game, there is much more going on than just PhysX calculations. The GPUs have to render complex 3D images, with multiple light sources, post processing effects, multi pass texture mapping....ect. And if you lump in PhysX calculations it's yet another task your GPU has to complete. It's also important to note that your GPU cannot process both PhysX and 3D game data at the same time. It must completely stop one task to do the other. Now of course this happens very quickly but it's yet another burden placed on your GPU. Removing this from your main GPU or GPUs and offloading it to a separate GPU can speed up the whole process.

    Now on to your last question. Do you "need" a dedicated PhysX card? No, you do not. Your GTX560's are perfectly capable of processing both like I mention above, but there is a performance penalty for it. If you're playing games that use PhysX and play them a lot, then that's where having a dedicated PhysX card will make sense.


    ok so physx is not in all games... and really not in games i would play... so this may no even be an issue... i'll just keep to the gtx560's and not complicate things like adding a dedicated physx card...
     
    thank you for the explanation and help everyone...
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    CraptacularOne
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    Re:sli... physx question(s)... 2012/02/29 14:06:17 (permalink)
    Yep, if you don't play any games that use GPU PhysX then don't bother with adding another card just for that.

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    Re:sli... physx question(s)... 2012/02/29 15:07:34 (permalink)
    uncle poop

    ok so physx is not in all games... and really not in games i would play... so this may no even be an issue... i'll just keep to the gtx560's and not complicate things like adding a dedicated physx card...

    thank you for the explanation and help everyone...

    Unless a game states that it uses PhysX on the box, or online reviews on said game talk about the use of PhysX, you can automatically assume, by default, that the game doesn't need PhysX.

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