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Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it.

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Dukman
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2016/08/06 08:09:36 (permalink)
Over the past few days I've been looking into upgrading from my Z97 set up to either Z170 or X99.    
 
The more I dig into specifics on the Z170 the less impressed I become with the overall package.   The boards are pretty for the most part, but I can't see that many overall gains.  And this late in the lifespan of the chipset, I wonder if I might not be better off sitting back to see what comes out next, or taking a closer look at what X99 can offer.
 
 
 
 

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    JosephL
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 08:59:27 (permalink)
    The Z170 has some substantial improvements over the Z97 chipset. The Z170 now supports the 1151 Skylake CPU's, with an upgrade from DMI 2.0 to DMI 3.0 which supports a maximum of 20 PCI lanes from the CPU. This is up from the 8 lanes available from 2.0 and has greater support for the M.2 interface if you are looking for some great storage options. This also supports DDR4 which has double the density from DDR3. Allowing for 64GB of memory support. The Z170 also supports ten USB 3.0 ports instead of the previous six.
     
    Ultimately waiting for the next chipset is up to you but there are some improvements worth noting.

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 10:08:32 (permalink)
    And they are all steps in the right direction.  
     
    If I understand correctly, the new PCIE lanes are for things like M.2 drives and other PCIE devices. They do not increase the available lanes for GPU's.  In fact the Classy K actually punishes you for running multiple GPU's  The DDR4 is a nice and welcome change.  USB 3.0 is still unstable, so now we have more unstable ports.  
     
    New CPU technology is (usually) always a good thing.   So definite improvement there.
     
     
     
    Ugh, Im coming off sounding like Fearpoint.  All negative.   Forgive me for that.    Just getting a bit too jaded I think.  
     

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    JosephL
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 10:37:04 (permalink)
    In what way do you mean when you say the Classified K punishes you for running multiple GPU's? Keep in mind that the real world differences between x8 and x16 are around 1-3%. This makes any disadvantage nearly negligible for most practical purposes. You can see an excellent breakdown of this HERE.
     
    It's also important to note that the Z170 has native support for PCI gen3. The Z97 is gen2 which means that an x8 slot on the Z170 is effectively an x16 from the Z97. Of course this is theoretical and real world results will not be identical, but this is one of the major improvements of the Z170.

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 11:23:04 (permalink)
    EVGATech_JosephL
    In what way do you mean when you say the Classified K punishes you for running multiple GPU's? Keep in mind that the real world differences between x8 and x16 are around 1-3%. This makes any disadvantage nearly negligible for most practical purposes. You can see an excellent breakdown of this HERE.
     
    It's also important to note that the Z170 has native support for PCI gen3. The Z97 is gen2 which means that an x8 slot on the Z170 is effectively an x16 from the Z97. Of course this is theoretical and real world results will not be identical, but this is one of the major improvements of the Z170.




    It's not a punishment in terms of overall multi-gpu performance at the hardware level.  But, if what has been posted is correct, only the first two PCIEx16 lanes will support cards in SLI.   Users are supposedly unable to use the the 1 and 3 x16 (slots 1 and 4 according to the manual).   So you're looking at some nasty thermal issues if you're running on air, moreso if running ACX style coolers.   
     
    http://forums.evga.com/Z170-Classified-K-sli-setup-m2526234.aspx
     
    http://forums.evga.com/Z170-FTW-SLI-PhysX-m2523677.aspx#2525762
     
     

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    JosephL
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 12:39:39 (permalink)
    If your chassis is constricted in airflow it is beneficial to use blower style high speed fans rather than the ACX style. The slot breakdown for the Classified K (for example) is as follows:
     

    PE1 – x16, (x8 if PE2 or PE3 is used) lanes from CPU
    PE2 – x8, (x4 if PE3 is used) lanes from CPU
    PE3 – x4, 4 lanes from CPU
    PE4 – x4, 4 lanes from PCH
    PE5 – x1, 1 lane from PCH
    PE6 – x1, 1 lane from PCH
     
    As you can see, the appropriate lanes for use in SLI are PE1 and PE2. We do have the Z170 Classified 4-Way motherboard which has a PLX chip to distribute additional PCI lanes for up to 4-way SLI configurations. If you are only interested in 2-way SLI the Classified K is a great option as long as you have adequate cooling.

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 13:02:44 (permalink)
    I looked and looked for the Classy 4 way.  But it has now grown a single spiral horn and run off in search of virginal maidens.
     
    And to be honest, Im starting to eyeball the X99 stuff more and more.  Sadly the X99 Classy seems to have also grown a single horn as well.

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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 13:09:50 (permalink)
    What is your game plan for the new build ?

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    NotaFish
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 13:19:25 (permalink)

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 13:25:45 (permalink)
    Cool GTX
    What is your game plan for the new build ?




     
    Usage will be mostly heavy duty gaming and light productivity, in addition to the normal internet and video streaming stuff.  
     
    Hardware wise I'll keep the 3 980Ti's, Creative SB Zx and the HDD's and SSD's that I currently have.  So the logical choice is really the Z170 platform, but I keep getting underwhelmed by it. 
     
    Honestly,  I am doing this because I'm feeling lazy.  If I buy a new motherboard and CPU, then I don't have to disassemble my current PC for it's motherboard and CPU and then reassemble it with the Z87 board I have.  So, laziness and upgrade all at the same time.  

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    Vlada011
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 14:03:30 (permalink)
    I think you should upgrade i7-6700K and Z170 Classified-K 2x8GB 3200MHz.
    From Ivy to Haswell I would say No. But now Yes.
    EVGA Z170 Classified-K have so well layout and give you so nice option for fast system NVMe M.2 drive or PCI-E SSD.
    You should use even Sound Blaster Z in small slot and Intel 750 in x4 slot and still your graphic will work on x16 speed.
    If you like more Samsung 950/961 and they work on full speed. 
     

     
    What owners think...
    I'm sorry because when I bought Intel mainstream we didn't had so affordable option with all features. 
    THIS IS FULL BLACK BOARD WITH LITTLE SILVER DETAILS, WHEN I LOOK Z170 Classified-K I think maybe I should go with i7-6700K... But I couldn't find him so cheap as i7-5820K. Lucky guys who could overclock him on 4.8GHz could reach same multi threaded score almost as i7-5820K on lower clock.
     
    This memory is probably great for Z170 Classified-K 
     
    http://www.newegg.com/Pro..._-20-232-409-_-Product
     
    TRIDENT Z 3200 2x8 14-14-14  and look very cool Classified-K

    post edited by Vlada011 - 2016/08/06 14:13:21

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/06 17:06:43 (permalink)
    If I decide to go Z170, the Classy K is out of the running, the board doesn't really impress me. And the more I research Killer Ethernet, the more I think I want to avoid it. Right or wrong, that's just the impressions I'm getting.  If I could find the Classy 4 way, that would be awesome, but even the used boards on eBay are going for outrageous prices.  
     
    Z170 boards Im looking closer at.
    EVGA Z170 FTW (Still available on Amazon)
    MSI Z170A XPower
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Extreme (Stupidly overpriced motherboard)

    And yes, aesthetics do play major part in my decision.  Some of you get the reasons why, some don't.
     
    CPU would indeed be the 6700k.
     
    I was indeed looking at the GSKill Trident Z Ram.  DDR4 2800 @ 32GB
     
    Probably would not go with an M.2 drive as I've already got a decent SSD already.  Creative card will stay unless it doesn't play well with Window 10.  Oh yeah, I'm switching over to W10.  If I can't stand it, I've got Windows 7 to fall back on.
     
    The other option I'm looking at is the X99 build.  
     
    Motherboard yet to be determined.  Those in the running are as follows.
     
    - EVGA X99 FTW K.  (can't avoid that Killer stuff on this one, plus it's hard to beat the price)
    - MSI X99 MPower (Would have to use some plastidip on this one)
    - MSI X99 XPower 
    - ASUS ROG Strix X99 
     
    CPU would be the 6850K
     
    RAM would be DDR4 2800 as well.  Either Corsair or GSkill.  In either build, going with GSkill would be a new experience as I've always used and had good luck with Corsair.  But that aesthetics thing pops up everytime I look at the Trident Z sticks.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by Dukman - 2016/08/07 09:25:19

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    Vlada011
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/07 05:33:05 (permalink)
    If you have option to buy i7-6850K IMMEDIATELY, INSTANTLY forget on Z170.
    His 40 PCI-E lanes are more than i7-6700K+Z170 together. 
    I feel very bad because I can't afford Broadwell-EX.
    I bought X99 with plan to replace maybe processor later and extend life of platform.
    I must think something after I upgrade graphic card.
     
     
    But i7-6700K Z170 Classified-K 3200 DDR4 is best option for Z170.
     

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/07 11:29:26 (permalink)
    Vlada011
    If you have option to buy i7-6850K IMMEDIATELY, INSTANTLY forget on Z170.
    His 40 PCI-E lanes are more than i7-6700K+Z170 together. 
    I feel very bad because I can't afford Broadwell-EX.
    I bought X99 with plan to replace maybe processor later and extend life of platform.
    I must think something after I upgrade graphic card.
     
     
    But i7-6700K Z170 Classified-K 3200 DDR4 is best option for Z170.
     




    I'm done looking at things for a few days.   Time to step back and think about things.  Maybe a few out of stock items will come back into stock.  EVGA - Hint hint. 
     
    Price to performance advantage goes to the Z170.   Longevity and overall effectiveness goes to the X99.
     
     

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    Vlada011
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/07 14:43:34 (permalink)
    Look him... you should buy him. 
    Really beautiful CPU.
     

     
    Actually I look on marketplace in my country everyday if some cheaper version show up for lower price as I bought i7-5820K I would bought him, than I would sell mine i7-5820K for similar price. But for now only Xeons, I hope to find some i7-6800K below 300 or i7-6850K below 400.
    Uhhh... I would be happy with them. I'm big fan of Intel i7, even if all of them are overkill for games somehow I LOVE THEM.
    Only I would not pay i7-6900K because even cheaper is too much for me and 6 core high frequency is best option for near future. 
     

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/07 15:31:37 (permalink)
    Tempt me not sir!  
     
    So much for stepping back and waiting.   Found and purchased an EVGA Z170 Classified 4 way.   Next up is RAM and CPU.

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    Vlada011
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/07 15:51:29 (permalink)
    How much you payed Z170 Classified? Premium board but expensive.
    E-ATX, angled 24pin, 8+8pin, PLX,... Cool board. 
    Maybe you should buy 2x16GB RAM...
    If someone want only single or dual graphic card it's OK and Z170 Classified-K. 
    post edited by Vlada011 - 2016/08/07 15:54:11

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/07 17:38:57 (permalink)
    I over paid actually.  Not by much, but they knew they had something that is in high demand.   Not crazy pricing like the people on Amazon that wants 76,000 for the motherboard. 
     
    And I will be going with 2X16GB sticks of memory.   Trying to decide between GSkill and Corsair.   
     
    There is a very, very small chance that this deal could fall through.  If so... well, not sure what I'll do then.

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    mike406
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/07 18:15:28 (permalink)
    I know you've already decided against the Classified K but for what it's worth you aren't required to use Killer ethernet as there are two ethernet ports with one being standard Intel.

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/07 18:21:57 (permalink)
    Yeah.  My plan was to simply use the Intel port in that event.  
     

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    mike406
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/08 02:39:09 (permalink)
    I believe the only reason it was included was to bump the price premium up a bit. Most people wouldn't ever actually need a board with dual networking ports. And why not make them both Intel (like on the Classy 4 way or X99 Classy) if again, the only reason being to bump up the price premium as the dedicated hardware connections Killer requires cost more than another Intel NIC. I won't ever use a Killer NIC, it's been proven time and time again that they're basically the Monster cable equivalent to networking adapters as all it is really is an overglorified and questionably implemented form of QoS. 
    post edited by mike406 - 2016/08/08 02:48:28

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/08 06:14:07 (permalink)
    And you just succinctly summed up my feelings about it.    EVGA isnt the only one that's jumped on that bandwagon though.  

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    WackyWRZ
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/08 13:12:15 (permalink)
    Ugh it's sad to see this Killer junk making such a comeback.  I remember when the Killer stuff first came out and was pushed heavily in the Alienware scene - especially the WiFi.  I like to buy boards that specifically run Intel ports because I know they work reliably and have good basic driver support without all the bloat crap.  If Killer was really "killer" you'd see it used in places where it really matters like servers and enterprise gear.  Heck I won't even order servers here at work anymore that don't have Intel NICs in them - tried Broadcom once and that was a complete fail! When it really comes down to it any network lag you're seeing more than likely is due to your ISP anyway...  Snake oil always has a place though! 
     
    Anyway good luck on your new setup - go for whatever memory is cheaper.  I've ran G.Skill multiple times and never had an issue.  In-fact the only RAM I have ever had fail was a stick of Crucial.

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    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/08 19:34:44 (permalink)
    Memory decision will be based on a couple of things.  Aesthetics and price.  And yeah, I put looks above price, within reason.  LOL
     
     

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    WackyWRZ
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/08 19:57:25 (permalink)
    Dukman
    Memory decision will be based on a couple of things.  Aesthetics and price.  And yeah, I put looks above price, within reason.  LOL

    LOL I completely understand.  I hate my RAM because it has yellow pulsing LEDs and the LEDs timing is not matched so it's random...  But it was cheap and is high speed so I find a way to ignore it. 

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    #25
    MSim
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/08 22:44:45 (permalink)
    Surprised you didn't wait for Z270 (Kabylake) which is due out later this year.
     
    #26
    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/09 19:43:05 (permalink)
    Well...   Mainly because this upgrade was a bit unplanned.  
     
    I was sitting there working on my wiring and considered that I wasn't looking forward almost completely tearing down my current system.  I got to thinking that A: With a new motherboard, I could just go straight into the WC build and leave this one as is.   And B:  I hadn't come across much about any new upcoming boards and CPU's.

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    #27
    Pathway
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/11 02:45:05 (permalink)
    As i see it nowadays if upgrading to 1070/1080+ i see no point what so ever to ever get a x99 system since none of those cards support over 2-way sli :)

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    #28
    Dukman
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/12 19:39:41 (permalink)
    Well crud.  The Z170 Classy 4 Way deal fell through.   Apparently they didn't have one in stock.   

    So now Im back at square one.  Guess it's the X99 route.   

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    #29
    Vlada011
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    Re: Z97 to Z170 Upgrade - Doesn't really seem like it's worth it. 2016/08/12 21:27:11 (permalink)
    What you will go with X99. That's happy news for me as one of X99 owners.
    To be honest between Z170 and Z270 situation will be very similar.
    Maybe guys could buy better processor later for Z170, i7-7700k.
     
    X99 is right choice and i7-6850K. Broadwell-E is my wish.
    But I'm in process of decision between 950 PRO and SM961.
    Now when I heard that NVIDIA will launch new Pascal series I could invest in M.2 first,
    until new 14nm GeForce show up I will compensate minus in wallet. 
     
    Did you choose motherboard? Now choice is excellent with many innovations.
    X99 market have much better motherboards.
    post edited by Vlada011 - 2016/08/12 21:31:31

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    #30
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