So went to a job interview today, was informed they loved my questions, they loved my resume, but unfortunately they can't hire me because I don't have a degree, and the company requires a degree for this position. Now mind you its a level 2 hardware support, though they where nice enough to inform me they had an entry level position paying 11/hr that didn't require a degree. I'm seriously confused by a lot of these companies, I went to trade school, I certified, and have 10 years of solid experience, run my own company on the weekends, but without a worthless degree, Im only suitable for entry level work, what makes the guy with a degree better than me. I did ask that question, and simply got, its just company policy. I swear HR at most compaines is made up of morons and fools

HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
Hmm weird. I got denied for a job before because I did not have the experience like you but I have the stupid degree and all other types of education. I know some companies want a degree but they dont care what degree you get. What the degree shows to some companies is that you took the time and discipline to stick through and complete something that is VERY demanding to get. But then again now days I have to argue that a college education in America is a freaking joke(which I would like to save that for another thread).

 
yea they didnt care what the degree was, i asked that as well, for a level 2 support role you can have a bachlors of english, yet because I only have experince I dont qualify. I can tell you I wouldnt trust this company, who does outsourceing helpdesk work, to handle my IT needs lol.

mistermister

candle_86
without a worthless degree, Im only suitable for entry level work

This is exactly why it's not "worthless". Be it right or wrong, its a fact of life. It's also an employers market until the economy drastically gets better.

No its still worthless, no matter what market it is, I work by choice, I have 2 bad knees, my lungs have chemical burns, and my back is shot, I work because I want to, im 28, but if they want to keep this up, I'll file for disability and let them pay me anyway. There is no reason someone with years of experience, should have to work entry level, while some snot nosed collage grad, with zero practical ability should get a position. A collage degree means your good at wasting thousands of dollars, nothing else. Name one job you can't do without a degree, what single field is it 100% impossible to do without paying a school thousands of dollars? None, every single job can be learned without a degree, if someone takes the time to learn and study. Collage is simply a way to prove you don't have the attention span to learn something independently and require someone to hold your hand.

mistermister

candle_86
Collage is simply a way to prove you don't have the attention span to learn something independently and require someone to hold your hand.

This is somewhat ironic, as well as a gross oversimplification of matters (not to mention all sorts of wrong).

In any case, regardless of your personal opinion regarding the value of a college education, your situation proves that said degree is not without worth (e.g. "worthless").

It is what it is, like (or agree with) it or not.

candle_86
Name one job you can't do without a degree, what single field is it 100% impossible to do without paying a school thousands of dollars?

The one you just applied for apparently.

 
you really are thick aren't you, my ability to the job is not dependent on a degree, the fact a degree is required by experience is not, tells me exactly what I need know about their company, and that is they are not staffed by people that know the industry at all. The fact they told me my MCSE needs a degree to be worth the paper its printed on tells me plenty. But what I take away from this is simple, your one of the people who threw a lot of money at collage, and think you deserve to have the better job because your good at wasting 30,000 dollars. I have almost zero respect for collage grads in this field, I've meet far to many of them, that are total idiots, who couldn't tell me the first thing about what is actually going on, they can fix it, but they can't explain why that fix worked, aka they really aren't that bright, and I question their ability. The problem is to many HR departments are not staffed by people who actually know the industry and set metrics, when truth be told, someone with an A+, Net+, Security+ and an MCSE is worth 10x what a guy with a masters is worth, as far as ability and skill, but HR departments are forgetting a certification means practical skill, a degree means theoretical knowledge that hasn't even been really tested.

No justin the problem is companies requiring a degree for a job that does not require it, and should be requiring industry standard certification. Any company that devalues certification and only values a degree is a crappy company, and I'm seeing more and more doing it. You think I'd hire a collage grad without certifications to assit me on the weekends for a big project? No I would not, I want someone that has practically ability and knows what they are actually doing.

mistermister

candle_86
Collage is simply a way to prove you don't have the attention span to learn something independently and require someone to hold your hand.

This is somewhat ironic, as well as a gross oversimplification of matters (not to mention all sorts of wrong).

In any case, regardless of your personal opinion regarding the value of a college education, your situation proves that said degree is not without worth (e.g. "worthless").

It is what it is, like (or agree with) it or not.

candle_86
Name one job you can't do without a degree, what single field is it 100% impossible to do without paying a school thousands of dollars?

The one you just applied for apparently.

I don't normally jump in on things like this, as it isn't my place, but I would like to point out that a collage is a series of pictures put together to make a bigger picture. I know spelling is meant to be college, not collage, but it is things like that causing many issues with people getting hired. The Internet has allowed us to dumb everything down to a simple level, and thrown spelling out of the window. People abbreviate the dumbest things to save themselves a second to type.

To impress a potential employer is the job of the applicant. The employer is NOT required to hire you under any circumstances, and they don't have to give a reason (except equal opportunity reasons, of course). At least they provided you with something you needed so that you could come back if you wanted.

Look at the military. You have people busting their butt to get a plane in the Air, on their high school degree. An officer, with a college degree, never touches a wrench or knows what the issue actually is. He says, "it didn't turn when I turned the thing and said hydraulic failure at one point.... " and a high school degree gets to figure it out.

If a college degree doesn't matter, that's a shame, because a college degree will get you paid more from beginning to end. It shows that you were able to juggle a job and learn new skill at the same time. You say they don't have experience, but how many people intern while In college for little to no pay so they can get experience. Don't think small picture of the party type, think big of those that are driven to make it.

Agreed' with BF on this one.
 
 

Holo

candle_86

mistermister

candle_86
without a worthless degree, Im only suitable for entry level work

This is exactly why it's not "worthless". Be it right or wrong, its a fact of life. It's also an employers market until the economy drastically gets better.

No its still worthless, no matter what market it is, I work by choice, I have 2 bad knees, my lungs have chemical burns, and my back is shot, I work because I want to, im 28, but if they want to keep this up, I'll file for disability and let them pay me anyway. There is no reason someone with years of experience, should have to work entry level, while some snot nosed collage grad, with zero practical ability should get a position. A collage degree means your good at wasting thousands of dollars, nothing else. Name one job you can't do without a degree, what single field is it 100% impossible to do without paying a school thousands of dollars? None, every single job can be learned without a degree, if someone takes the time to learn and study. Collage is simply a way to prove you don't have the attention span to learn something independently and require someone to hold your hand.

With that holier than tho attitude you should work entry level only on the basis that you need to get off your high horse - if they didn't hire you move on, it's just business.
 
I understand where you're coming from but some businesses want the degree, and you are better off not working for them especially in IT. I agree with you that in IT a degree isn't necessary unless the business requires it. Now to answer your last question, I go to college, I have industry certs, and I go to school online which means I teach myself essentially using the college's learning materials. I only want the degree to not be in your position when I have 10 years of experience. It'll just be a checkmark on my resume down the road. That being said, don't take it personally, some want the degrees, some will forgo having the degree in favor of experience. Bottom line is this: it is just a business decision to require it and if you don't qualify you don't.
 
Now here's the kicker, do you want to work for a company that puts a degree above experience? No. So think of it as a blessing in disguise. Mind you I wouldn't trust half the grads with a CS degree with the keys to the kingdom because they'd cause downtime in production but that doesn't mean they are all bad - just most are.
 

candle_86

mistermister

candle_86
Collage is simply a way to prove you don't have the attention span to learn something independently and require someone to hold your hand.

This is somewhat ironic, as well as a gross oversimplification of matters (not to mention all sorts of wrong).

In any case, regardless of your personal opinion regarding the value of a college education, your situation proves that said degree is not without worth (e.g. "worthless").

It is what it is, like (or agree with) it or not.

candle_86
Name one job you can't do without a degree, what single field is it 100% impossible to do without paying a school thousands of dollars?

The one you just applied for apparently.

 
you really are thick aren't you, my ability to the job is not dependent on a degree, the fact a degree is required by experience is not, tells me exactly what I need know about their company, and that is they are not staffed by people that know the industry at all. The fact they told me my MCSE needs a degree to be worth the paper its printed on tells me plenty. But what I take away from this is simple, your one of the people who threw a lot of money at collage, and think you deserve to have the better job because your good at wasting 30,000 dollars. I have almost zero respect for collage grads in this field, I've meet far to many of them, that are total idiots, who couldn't tell me the first thing about what is actually going on, they can fix it, but they can't explain why that fix worked, aka they really aren't that bright, and I question their ability. The problem is to many HR departments are not staffed by people who actually know the industry and set metrics, when truth be told, someone with an A+, Net+, Security+ and an MCSE is worth 10x what a guy with a masters is worth, as far as ability and skill, but HR departments are forgetting a certification means practical skill, a degree means theoretical knowledge that hasn't even been really tested.

You also completely lost my respect when you put any value on the A+ cert. That cert is for working at BestBuy, not in IT. Net+ is a slight dip in the field but hardly in the same ballpark as MCSE, and SEC+ is just the entry level cert into the security world which is hardly a worthwhile cert. I hold the net+ and the thing was a joke to take.

an A+ and Net+ are required to get a Sec+, also I'd put an A+ only tech against a recent college grad, and 9 out of 10 times the A+ tech knows more. I experienced this first hand, when I first got into the field professionally with just my A+, I remember quite fondly, one kid fresh with his masters, this kid, was asked to work on a Pentium 1 system for a business that still ran there accounting software in dos, now it had a bad Power Supply, at least he figured that out, but I guess red to red your dead isn't taught, because he blew that motherboard apart, costing the shop money on a socket 4 motherboard, yes Socket 4 aka, no ATX boards available, he also killed the AT PSU. So we got another AT PSU and another Motherboard, and this kid was walked through how to plug in an AT supply, then he got confused because the Pentium 66 was only working at 60mhz and he didn't know why, we had to show him how to use jumpers to set the bus. A college grad may know stuff from about 2010 and newer if graduating today, but how often do you actually see new computers, I can't tell you how many times I've had to fix machines from the mid to early 90's in industrial settings. Schools are not teaching these skills, likely because a professor in IT is someone who couldn't hack it in the real world, so went back to teach theory, so yes an A+ is better than a masters in this field. 
 
Also it's not just one employer, im seeing it more often at a lot of companies. As for starting my own Business, I have one, It doesn't make enough to pay my bills yet, but in time I hope it will, so I can tell corporate America to blow me.

Candle, will anyone look at you with just  only a Cisco Cert?  What area are you anyways? And, why not focus working for your self, along side a day job?

candle_86
Name one job you can't do without a degree, what single field is it 100% impossible to do without paying a school thousands of dollars? None, every single job can be learned without a degree, if someone takes the time to learn and study. Collage is simply a way to prove you don't have the attention span to learn something independently and require someone to hold your hand.

 

 
 

Normally a company will not have an in person interview for a tech job that requires a degree if they see that you did not state that you have a degree on your resume.  This is just another typical HR personnel that doesn't know what they are doing and probably shouldn't even have a job himself.  It's like you being trolled.
 
Anyway I suggest getting a degree to get over the hurdle.  That is what I am doing.  But once you go and get a degree, you probably won't want to be an IT professional any more anyway since bigger opportunities will open up to you rather than just being a support technician.  The people that produce at companies don't do IT stuff.  They are the people bringing in the money.

Brad_Hawthorne
Typically, a company will overlook something like that if you have sufficient background experience for the position. Often times they will mention such requirements to let you down easy and make you feel someone else is responsible for you not being hired. It's always easy to pawn off the reasoning on some nebulous third person.
 
In the past, former employers have overlooked me having multiple two-year degrees vs a single four-year degree. Experience and knowledge was the deciding factor in those instances.
 
Where you missing any particular IT certifications they were looking for? That might be more of a reason than a four-year degree.

nope was a windows desktop support role for Windows 7, including outlook, and sync center. Nothing complex, and my MCSE more than covers that, and so would my 3 years of helpdesk remote support, 2 years of system migrations, and 5 years of residental support. I'm actually quite well rounded

candle_86
Name one job you can't do without a degree, what single field is it 100% impossible to do without paying a school thousands of dollars? None, every single job can be learned without a degree, if someone
a doctor doesn't have to go to school to be a doctor, he has to pass the state medical exam, now I'm aware alot of states require that you attend a medical school before your allowed to take said test, but the ability to know how to be a doctor is all public, you can get any medical textbook ect without ever going to school, and be a doctor in all but offical title. So again

Sigh.

A. http://www.ama-assn.org/a...coming-physician.page?

B. When it comes time to do surgery on you, your wife or your child who do you pick... the guy who learned from the Internet and some textbooks or the guy who graduated top of his class from Harvard? Be truthful.

Scarlet-Tech

DStith
Normally a company will not have an in person interview for a tech job that requires a degree if they see that you did not state that you have a degree on your resume.  This is just another typical HR personnel that doesn't know what they are doing and probably shouldn't even have a job himself.  It's like you being trolled.
 
Anyway I suggest getting a degree to get over the hurdle.  That is what I am doing.  But once you go and get a degree, you probably won't want to be an IT professional any more anyway since bigger opportunities will open up to you rather than just being a support technician.  The people that produce at companies don't do IT stuff.  They are the people bringing in the money.

Or there is a HR person who wanted to offer him another job, even though he didn't meet the requirements of the job he applied for. Wait, that's not a possibility, is it?

In the market, Candle seems to be on the defensive because he didn't get the job. The company requires a degree. Get one or don't. At this point, they don't care what you learned or how, because your degree doesn't exist.

It is unfortunate, but it's the stark truth that the company REQUIRES it for the position. You are 28, and can easily get into school on grants and scholarships, and other assistance based options. You could use the keyboard to research the ways to get the college for 50% less than a kid that has mommy and daddies wallet, or sit on EVGA forums complaining that they won't hire you with their requirements being met. It sucks, but it is easily overcome.

no they intentionally wasted my time, and offering me their entry level 1 was the most insulting thing possible, I live in Fort Worth, this Interview was in Richardson at 9am yesterday, it took me 2 hours to get to an interview, and when they called to ask me to come in, it was to discuss the level 2 hardware support role, not entry level. My resume clearly showed I have been to trade school, but not college, it also clearly showed my certifications, what this company did was unethical, and I have every reason to be pissed, I drive 53 miles to your interview just to be screwed around, that's not ok. As for school, I refuse to go into debt for a piece of paper that I have no respect for.
 

mistermister

candle_86
Name one job you can't do without a degree, what single field is it 100% impossible to do without paying a school thousands of dollars? None, every single job can be learned without a degree, if someone 
a doctor doesn't have to go to school to be a doctor, he has to pass the state medical exam, now I'm aware alot of states require that you attend a medical school before your allowed to take said test, but the ability to know how to be a doctor is all public, you can get any medical textbook ect without ever going to school, and be a doctor in all but offical title. So again

Sigh.

A. http://www.ama-assn.org/a...coming-physician.page?

B. When it comes time to do surgery on you, your wife or your child who do you pick... the guy who learned from the Internet and some textbooks or the guy who graduated top of his class from Harvard? Be truthful.

 
Neither, I don't trust Doctors period the end. There overall goal isn't to save lives its to make money, if they wanted to save lives, they wouldn't turn away people like my fiancee who needs surgery to remove her cancer, but because she doesn't have enough to cover the copay they are refusing to remove it, because its not life or death yet. So doctors are not trustworthy, decent people anyway, so in truth, I don't trust a single one of them.

Scarlet-Tech
Your choice on the school part. As far as how long you drive distance and time, would you have moved 2 hours to be there?

no, I will not live in Dallas County, but I would have driven the 2 hours everyday for the position I interviewed for. Honestly the way they treated me, I have every right to be pissed off, and I see to many companies with the same requirement these days. It's almost like they assume someone can't find that lost .pst file without a degree. Which causes me to question the intelligence of the staff already working there.