Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering/Freezing

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jasonanderson
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2011/02/14 15:40:27 (permalink)
UPDATE: Keyboard issue solved by moving keyboard to a different USB port and making sure the connection was not loose.
 
Hello,
 
I recently upgraded my CPU from a 920 to 980X and also bought two C300 256 GB SSDs.  I have the 980X installed and I put the two SSDs in a RAID 0.  I took my two 1 TB HDDs and put them in a RAID 1 for data.
 
That is all I changed in the hardware department and I am starting with a clean OS install.  But, I am having two major issues that have me stumped.  Nothing is overclocked at this point.  Running BIOS defaults (SZ78) at the moment.
 
First, I have a very weird keyboard issue (using Logitech G15 - not new).  Sometimes a key I press will display 10+ times.  I am having to do MANY backspaces just to type this post.  Sometimes key presses do not register at all and sometimes I get a bunch of tabs or carriage returns.  This keyboard never did this before the upgrades.
 
Here is an example sentence of the bizarre typing issue.  As I am typing this message, it might act up at anmoment.  I will keep typing to try to get the repeated characters issue that I have prevvvvvvvvviioy described.  [Note: all the typos in this block of text was caused by the issue and I have bolded them. For the first word I typed "any moment" and for the second I typed "previously".]
 
The other issue is with graphics freezing momentarily and always the hard drive activity light is on.  Once the light goes off the graphics resumes.  I have not installed too many programs yet, but it happens every 30 or so seconds with 3DMark Vantage, 3DMark 11 and Mafia II benchmark.  The screen will stop, hard drive light on, hard drive light off, and graphics resume.  This also never happened before.
 
Do I have some bizarre IO issue going on?  I am really stumped on this one.
 
UPDATE: I may have figured out the keyboard part.  I moved my keyboard to another USB port on the back and it works fine now.  Don't ask me why I did not think of that before.  But, I am typing normal now.  But, I still have the freezing and I have noticed now that the freezing even occurs when typing.  I just thought it was the issue with the keyboard.  Now, it will freeze, but when the feeze ends, my typed keys are all displayed.  I have an external hard drive on a USB port.  I will try removing that to see if that helps.
 
UPDATE 2: I tried removing the external hard drive.  That did not help at all.  I am totally stumped on this one.
post edited by jasonanderson - 2011/02/20 07:08:46

 
 
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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/15 14:05:48 (permalink)
    I submitted a support ticket on this and they suggested I remove the 980X and re-install the 920 to see if the problem persists.  I really hope that the CPU is not the problem.  It does make sense to try this I guess, but what a pain to remove everything to swap the CPU out again.
     
    If anyone else has some suggestions I am all ears.

     
     
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    wdflyer
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/15 14:28:06 (permalink)
      Deleted, nevermind....
    post edited by wdflyer - 2011/02/15 14:37:53

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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/15 15:49:02 (permalink)
    wdflyer, EVGA support asked me the same question.  Yes, I am using BIOS 78.  I updated my sig.  I think I was throwing people off putting the SZ in front of it.  That is how it shows in the BIOS but I see that EVGA leaves off the SZ when referring the the 44 and up BIOS revisions.  Thanks for suggesting it though.  I appreciate any help.  I think I must have a weird issue here.
     
    I am going to try putting the 920 back in tomorrow.  I sometimes regreat not having a more robust liquid cooling setup, but right now I am glad that H50 is not that hard to remove and re-install.

     
     
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    wdflyer
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/15 16:29:40 (permalink)
    Yeah, I mis-read the BIOS version, that was why I deleted the post right away.
     
    It does seem unlikely that going back to your 920 will make a difference though.  Let us know if it works, that would be one weird CPU issue. With the USB/keyboard symptoms you mentioned, a motherboard issue seems more likely IMO.
     

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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/15 17:01:00 (permalink)
    Yeah, I wonder about the CPU being the cause as well.  But, I will give it a try and examine the MB while in there to make sure nothing looks awry.
     
    I do hope my 980X is not the problem because I am absolutely loving the lower temps on this beast compared to my 920.  Granted I have not OC'd it yet, but I ran a LinX 10 pass run to see if it was stable (it is) and the hottest core only reached 57C.  And, with speedstep enabled the cores idle at around mid 20s C.  This is with an ambient room temp of 75F.  My 920 without an OC would idle about 10C warmer than that and much hotter at load.  I am truly impressed.

     
     
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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 08:06:29 (permalink)
    wdflyer

    Yeah, I mis-read the BIOS version, that was why I deleted the post right away.

    It does seem unlikely that going back to your 920 will make a difference though.  Let us know if it works, that would be one weird CPU issue. With the USB/keyboard symptoms you mentioned, a motherboard issue seems more likely IMO.



    wdflyer, you hunch was correct.  I put the 920 and no improvement at all.  Still the freezes, even while typing this message.  I did notice that when I plugged my keyboard into the USB slot I had been using their is a lot of play with the connection.  It is not snug at all.  So, I suspect that was the issue with the wierd keyboard issue.  Using another slot has prevented the keyboard issue.
     
    But, the freezing is still there and extremely frustrating.  I guess I might next try re-installing the OS onto one SSD and no using RAID.  I wonder if the RAID is the issue since everytime it freezes the hard drive activity light is on and it goes out as soon as the freeze stops.  I was using RAID 0 before with two HDDs but not with SSDs.  I did a clean OS install so that is not a huge effort to try at this point.
     
    I hope it is not the MB.  I have had to RMA my board once before and beginning to wonder if it is worth it.

     
     
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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 11:22:20 (permalink)
    Ok, I took my SSDs out of RAID and installed the OS on one of them.  So far no freezes at all.  So, it seems the RAID was the issue.  Anyone have any idea why?  I see many people running SSDs in RAID 0 on these forums.  I was running RAID 0 with two HDDs previously without a problem.  Any idea why this would be a problem?

     
     
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    wdflyer
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 13:41:42 (permalink)
    What RAID controller are/were you using?

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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 13:52:35 (permalink)
    wdflyer

    What RAID controller are/were you using?

     
    wdflyer, thanks for keeping in touch.  I have not heard from EVGA today so I am just winging it.
     
    Good question.  I am using the Intel ROM on the motherboard.  I have the JMicron disabled.  In fact, I still have it in RAID mode as my RAID 1 volume with the two 1 TB HDDs is still mounted.  So, the change I made was to delete the RAID 0 volume with the two SSDs and now they are no longer part of an array.
     
    I guess I will next try to do a new install again with RAID 0 for the SSDs.  I have put the 980X back in.  I am so glad I had plenty of Arctic Silver 5 and Arctic Clean around.  As I am typing this, I am running a 3DMark Vantage on the 980X and not any stutter/freeze.  Hopefully a re-install of the OS on RAID will work.  If not, that must be my issue.
     
    Could it be that running the two SSDs in RAID 0 on the SATA II is just overloading the IO and bottlenecking with the graphics?  Of course, that really doesn't explain why I have the slight freezes even when just typing.  Maybe I just had some sort of borked installation.

     
     
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    Mac_vista64
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 14:09:43 (permalink)
    Your first hunch with the USB keyboard, some USB cables can just seem to cause trouble that isn't obvious why or what it is doing. I'd be worried or check there you don't have corrupt files, and to see if you can run chkdsk and clear out as much cache and temp files as possible.
    sfc /scannow use to find problems now and then when I was on Vista and when I had a drive with bad sectors. SSDs shouldn't. Those Crucial SSDs I assume have latest firmware and support.

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    wdflyer
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 14:29:43 (permalink)
    You might try the JMICRON for the SSD RAID after updating everything as much as possible for it (BIOS/Driver- wise).  I honestly don't have much experience with the 3rd party RAID controllers as I am running a Revo as my performance / OS drive, but if your issue was present using the intel RAID and it went away when you took it out of RAID, it is worth a shot IMO.
     
    The intel ICH10 is tied to the black SATA ports as well as the USB ports, the problems may have been overlapping if there was too much info passing through the bus for the ICH10 to handle, but that is just some pure speculation on my part, and taking for granted that I am understanding your issues correctly...
     

     
     

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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 14:31:26 (permalink)
    Mac_vista64

    Your first hunch with the USB keyboard, some USB cables can just seem to cause trouble that isn't obvious why or what it is doing. I'd be worried or check there you don't have corrupt files, and to see if you can run chkdsk and clear out as much cache and temp files as possible.
    sfc /scannow use to find problems now and then when I was on Vista and when I had a drive with bad sectors. SSDs shouldn't. Those Crucial SSDs I assume have latest firmware and support.

     
    With each iteration I have done a clean OS install so I don't think I would have corrupt files yet.  Definitely not much cache or temp files.  Even my data disk is a clean start as I had to change my two HDDs from RAID 0 to RAID 1.  I have not even gotten to the point of restoring my data from backup.
     
    Yes, the Crucial SSDs have firmware 0006 which was the latest as of a few days ago.  Now, I have not installed a specific driver from Crucial's website.  I guess I could check on that, but with just one SSD working out of RAID all was good.

     
     
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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 14:47:53 (permalink)
    wdflyer 

    You might try the JMICRON for the SSD RAID after updating everything as much as possible for it (BIOS/Driver- wise).  I honestly don't have much experience with the 3rd party RAID controllers as I am running a Revo as my performance / OS drive, but if your issue was present using the intel RAID and it went away when you took it out of RAID, it is worth a shot IMO. 

    The intel ICH10 is tied to the black SATA ports as well as the USB ports, the problems may have been overlapping if there was too much info passing through the bus for the ICH10 to handle, but that is just some pure speculation on my part, and taking for granted that I am understanding your issues correctly... 

     
     
     
    Ah, I might try that next.  A long time ago I thought I read that the red JMicron ports should be avoided except for maybe DVD/CD drives if one ran out of ports.  But, I can definitely give it a try.  I am re-installing Win 7 now on the SSDs in RAID 0 on the Intel ICH10.  If the stuttering/freezing returns with this setup I will try that next.  I will post the results of that test.
     
    I envy you with the Revo board.  I seriously considered that, but decided against it because my X58 SLI board only has thee PCIe ports and I have the 480s in the x16 ones and the Powerboost in the x8 one.  So, I would have to remove the powerboost and then the revo would cause my second 480 to be at x8 instead of x16.  Oh how I wish I had splurged originally for a Classified board.  And, now they are next to impossible to find.
     

     
     
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    wdflyer
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 15:02:05 (permalink)
    I know some really hate the Marvell RAID controller that is on the 770, haven't really paid attention to the JMICRON issues.
     
    But yeah, feels like I paid an arm and a leg for that Revo, glad I got it though.
     
    As far as the 8x issue, that isn't enough to worry about performance-wise, only a 2% difference in SLI performance between 16x/16x and 16x/8x when it is all said and done. 
     
    The whole power boost issue is another story, some feel it is not needed unless you are running 3x SLI and serious overclocks but I like the piece of mind just the same.  I know if I was running two 480SCs I would want to have the power boost thing if I didn't have the molex, they are pretty power hungry cards.  In all honesty, I didn't even know about the ATX meltdown issues when I bought the 770 and just lucked out and happened to get a board with the molex built in. BTW, you never know, they may come back into stock.
     
     
    Anywho, Good luck with the RAID/USB stuff, post back when you figure it out or if we can be of more help to you.
     
    Cheers!

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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 15:31:04 (permalink)
    Yeah, I agree I don't think there is a big difference between x16/x16 and x16/x8, but I like the piece of mind with the powerboost.  I did not know of the issue really until the powerboost came out, but I like the piece of mind and I figure the C300s are enough of a bump up from my HDDs.  And, they sure are a lot faster and fast enough for me for now.
     
    Anyway, on to my troubleshooting.  I have installed clean OS with SSDs in RAID 0 and there is no stuttering or freezing!!!  After all that it must have been either a messed up install or something I had installed (had not installed much yet).  So, I am happy for now.  I guess I will just keep testing as I install make changes and see if I can isolate something that might cause the problem again.
     
    Hopefully the clean OS install resolved the issue.  If I encounter anything that brings it back I will update this thread.
     
    Thanks for the suggestions and enjoy that Revo.

     
     
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    wdflyer
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/16 15:44:16 (permalink)


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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/17 06:54:42 (permalink)
    I think I spoke too soon.  I am still not experiencing the freezes, but found this thread on the Crucial forums.  It looks like this freeze up is a common issue with these SSDs:
     
    http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Solid-State-Drives-SSD/C300-Disk-Freeze-ups-in-Windows-7/td-p/18840
     
    I did wake up this morning and when I moved my mouse to wake my display up (computer was not in sleep mode, just screen had gone to sleep), my display driver crashed and then the computer locked up completely.  I may just send these SSDs back to Amazon and get another brand.
     
    I am not sure why the computer would lock up though.  I am still running default BIOS settings which has my memory voltage at a little above 1.5 and at 1333 9-9-9.  Should I change the voltage and memory to the spec of my memory.  Is the default settings not good for memory.  I usually run OC'd so never really run very long at default BIOS settings.
     
     

     
     
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    #18
    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/17 15:36:04 (permalink)
    Argh, this is frustrating.  I am running out of ideas.  I did a lot of searching and found some people saying HPET causes stuttering.  I still don't fully understand HPET even after reading the Wikipedia article on it.  With BIOS defaults it was enabled 32-bit.  I have tried 64-bit and disabled and still have the periodic feezes issue.  Maybe these SSDs just suck.  I did, for good measure, go ahead and put my Vdimm to 1.65, upped Vtt to +100 and manually set my memory timings per spec.  But, I still have freezing.  I am noticing that it creeps up as at first I did not have that problem.  So, perhaps all my changing in and out of RAID meant nothing since I did not take time to let it happen. 
     
    I guess the only thing left I can think to try is to do another clean OS install on one SSD without RAID 0, but install it on the other SSD to try to narrow it down to one SSD.  I did a full scandisk and it found no errors.  As far as I can tell Crucial does not have any special software to check their SSDs.
     
    I really want to get it working again so I can get to OC'ing this new chip.

     
     
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    dementya
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/17 18:14:44 (permalink)
    I have the same SSD and when I play wow it is ok... but I get random freeze when I enter combat....
     
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    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/18 02:03:38 (permalink)
    dementya

    I have the same SSD and when I play wow it is ok... but I get random freeze when I enter combat....


     
    I think I may just return these SSDs and get some OCZ Vertex 2's.  I really regret not looking at Crucial's forums before spending a grand on two pieces of junk.

     
     
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    #21
    doorules
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/18 02:48:47 (permalink)
    sorry to see you having issues with those ssd's, they have been excellent for me so far, are you doing anything to clean the drives between installs and are you using the latest IRST drivers from Intel?

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    #22
    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/18 03:09:12 (permalink)
    doorules

    sorry to see you having issues with those ssd's, they have been excellent for me so far, are you doing anything to clean the drives between installs and are you using the latest IRST drivers from Intel?

     
    Glad to hear they are working for you.  Maybe I am just unlucky or doing something wrong.  I am using the latest IRST drivers, but I have not been doing anything to clean the drives between installs.  Forgive my ignorance, but how do I clean them.  Also, I had this issue wiht the first install.  Would I need to clean them brand new?  I really love the speed of these drives (even though I am on SATA II), but the stuttering issue is awful.  I didn't spend so much money on my 480s for stuttering graphics. 

     
     
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    #23
    doorules
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/18 05:43:27 (permalink)
    I am aware of the thread on crucial about the stuttering issue, just doesn't seem to be any particular thing to hang your hat on and say that there is the problem.  I always clean my drives before an install. I use diskpart with clean all command. There are several other ways but I have good luck with the diskpart method. If you are not familiar with it just let me know and I will walk you thru the commands. Very easy to do just takes a few mins per drive

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    #24
    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/18 07:50:32 (permalink)
    doorules

    I am aware of the thread on crucial about the stuttering issue, just doesn't seem to be any particular thing to hang your hat on and say that there is the problem.  I always clean my drives before an install. I use diskpart with clean all command. There are several other ways but I have good luck with the diskpart method. If you are not familiar with it just let me know and I will walk you thru the commands. Very easy to do just takes a few mins per drive

     
    Thanks for your assistance.  If you would walk me through the commands I would really appreciate it.
     
    As to the issue, I thought of a couple things I might try.  I welcome your thoughts on these:
     
    First, I had not gotten around to adjusting the page file.  It seems like in posts here on EVGA forums that it is best to have a page file for some programs that expect it, but to reduce it to about 256mb.  Does that sound right?
     
    I read that it is best to disable indexing on the SSDs.  I had not done that yet.  Do you have indexing disabled?
     
    Finally, do you know anything about this HPET setting in the BIOS?  Do you have it enabled or disabled in your settings?  If enabled, do you have it at 32 or 64 bit?
     

     
     
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    #25
    doorules
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/18 09:55:20 (permalink)
    I set HPET to 64 but I do not think that will be an issue one way or the other. I do disable indexing for the ssd's, but not for my spinner storage drive. I don't do anything with the page file, no need.
     

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    #26
    doorules
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/18 10:06:05 (permalink)
    Couple of ways to access diskpart. You can get there from either another disk with W7 on it and do it from within windows, or you can get to it from your W7 install disc, or whatever medium you use for W7.
        Set bios to defaults, IDE mode.
        First, if you have another disk with W7....go to command prompt and type in "diskpart"
      When the prompt comes back type in "list disk"
       You should be able to see your crucial disks in the list, now type in "select disk ?" where y is the number associated with your ssd drive
       next type in "clean all"  this will take a few mins so don't worry about it
       The commands I have listed, when you enter them do not use the quotations.



     
     
    If you do not have another disk with W7 on it you can load defaults in bios to make sure you are in IDE mode, boot from W7 install disk ( or whatever you have ) when it opens up go to repair my computer, this will allow you to enter command prompt,  then you proceed the same as above
    post edited by doorules - 2011/02/18 10:10:02

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    #27
    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/18 10:07:45 (permalink)
    doorules

    I set HPET to 64 but I do not think that will be an issue one way or the other. I do disable indexing for the ssd's, but not for my spinner storage drive. I don't do anything with the page file, no need.


     
    Thanks.  I just got back to my computer and shortly after waking it from sleep it seemed to hang on something.  The clock on my G15 keyboard kept updating and my mouse could move but I got no response from clicking on anything.  I hit Ctrl-Alt-Del and after a few minutes the screen went black, but still not frozen.  I finally hit the reset button.  Upon booting, my display driver was stopped due to a "reported problem" (shown in device manager).  I rebooted and the display driver was working properly.  Do you use sleep (S3) at all?
     
    This is so crazy.  Nothing seems stable with this system. 
     
    I guess next I will try removing the SSDs completely and go back to using the HDDs and see what happens.  If that fixes it, I may just get my grand back and call it a day.  I got my computer to enjoy overclocking and to game, not to re-install Win 7 20 times.

     
     
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    #28
    doorules
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/18 10:12:17 (permalink)
    you get those drives working the way they can and should and spinner drives will be a thing of the past for you

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    #29
    jasonanderson
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    Re:Upgraded to 980X and SSDs - Weird Stuttering and Keyboard Issues 2011/02/19 06:58:43 (permalink)
    Ok, here is my current status of this adventure:
     
    I currently have my SSDs out of RAID and the OS installed on one and Games the other.  I am still in RAID mode as my data RAID 1 still exists.  It may be too soon to tell, but everything is workly flawlessly.  In day-to-day launching programs, etc. I cannot tell the difference between SSDs in and out of RAID.  Both scenarios are definitely snappier than HDDs.
     
    If this method continues to work, does anyone have any thoughts on what might be wrong.  I watched during a 3DMark 11 run and Metro 2033 benchmark.  Both had times where the disk activity light came on for a few seconds, but no freezes.  Is the RAID 0 just "overloading" the IO of my system or something?  I have the old E758 X58 SLI board if that matters.

     
     
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    #30
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