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Strange frame limiter behaviour when set for GTX 770, works fine for old 570

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greg1984
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2014/06/16 00:58:03 (permalink)
Hi everyone!
 
tl;dr: please skip to “Using GTX 570” :).
 
I would be thankful for any help/information/suggestion about this strange issue – maybe that’s just me and everything works fine?
 
I’ve just replaced my GTX 570 with GTX 770 (both EVGA) and have some strange frame limiter behaviour that actually drives me little bit crazy :). I know it sounds strange, but I do not get bothered by screen tear as long as tear line does not move up or down on the screen (so frames are stable for 60Hz display…). I value best controller response time and somehow ignore tear line and really enjoy games that way. To maintain 60 FPS without V-Sync, I’m using EVGA Precision X frame limiter option. To the point:
 
I’ve used Thief and AC IV. For testing purposes, all possible details set to LOW; AA OFF; Motion Blur OFF. Driver reinstalled using clean install between tests. Latest Precision X used. No fraps or other monitoring software in the background. PC used only for gaming, only drivers, few games via Steam and PrecX, no other software installed. Win 7 64 SP1 fully updated, driver version: 337.88.
 
Using GTX 570:
 V-Sync: ON, FPS Cap: OFF – Really smooth 60 FPS on screen, no stutter at all.
 V-Sync: OFF, FPS Cap: On – Tear line visible and stable, PrecX shows 60.0 FPS nearly constantly.
 V-Sync: ON, FPS Cap: ON – Same as first test – smooth.
 
Using GTX 770:
 V-Sync: ON, FPS Cap: OFF – same as GTX 570.
 V-Sync: OFF, FPS Cap: On – Tear line visible and unstable, moving down constantly, PrecX shows 59.5 – 59.9 FPS.
 V-Sync: ON, FPS Cap: ON – Same as first test – Visible stutter due to the frame limit not having 60 FPS, so few frames can be lost.
 
I’ve checked performance of GPU, CPU, HDD and memory – everything is fine, exactly according to results of similar PCs and benchmark articles around the web. If any hardware details are needed, please let me know, I’ve skipped these to make this post shorter.
 
I’ve no idea what’s going on – maybe that’s how it works under GTX 770 and I should not care?
Thanks in advance!
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    astacy12
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    Re: Strange frame limiter behaviour when set for GTX 770, works fine for old 570 2014/06/16 06:46:30 (permalink)
      I'm confused, why are you wanting to use the frame limiter in the first place when it gives visible tear lines and gameplay is not as smooth while the V-Sync gives no tear lines and smooth gameplay? Seems to me the answer to your problems is already solved. Also, why set all of the settings to low? If that is how you play all games you could have stuck with the 570 for another couple of years. I understand 60 FPS stable is important, but the 770 can definitely do much higher settings with the same results. At low, its a waste of that particular GPU. Increasing graphic settings does not lower response time... unless the GPU can't handle the settings of course.
     
      With V-Sync, if the FPS is getting above 60 (or whatever the refresh rate of your screen is), it will downclock the GPU to prevent wasted frames or screen tearing. I am not sure exactly how the frame rate limiter works since I have no experience with it (due to v-sync...) so i'm not sure if it does the same as v-sync or not, but a rate limiter sounds like it just limits the FPS getting to the monitor to 60 but still allows the GPU to run full speed (which would be the same as going 100+ FPS on a 60H monitor). Again, I don't know how it actually works, but if that is the case then that is definitely why there is screen tearing while using it.
     
     If you are still wanting to use the rate limiter instead of v-sync, try upping the limit a little and see if that helps a bit. Better yet, turn up the settings
     
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    Vlada011
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    Re: Strange frame limiter behaviour when set for GTX 770, works fine for old 570 2014/06/16 07:01:16 (permalink)
    I don't use frame limiter or VSync at all, only adaptive VSync in NVIDIA Control Panel.
     

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    astacy12
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    Re: Strange frame limiter behaviour when set for GTX 770, works fine for old 570 2014/06/16 07:22:46 (permalink)
    Vlada011
    I don't use frame limiter or VSync at all, only adaptive VSync in NVIDIA Control Panel.
     


    Bah, that is what I meant in my post above. Same here, only use adaptive and neither of the other two.


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    greg1984
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    Re: Strange frame limiter behaviour when set for GTX 770, works fine for old 570 2014/06/16 23:48:42 (permalink)
    Thanks for answers!
     
    astacy12
     I'm confused, why are you wanting to use the frame limiter in the first place when it gives visible tear lines and gameplay is not as smooth while the V-Sync gives no tear lines and smooth gameplay? Seems to me the answer to your problems is already solved. Also, why set all of the settings to low?

    Actually, I do not want to use V-Sync at all. I'm fine with frame limiter, but using it on GTX 770 gives me small stutter in games, where using it on GTX 570 not - games work fine. I've used low details just to compare both cards - ACIV even on medium details is too much for GTX 570 so I've decided to use low details to make it even for both cards. I do not play on low details all the time.
     
    astacy12
    With V-Sync, if the FPS is getting above 60 (or whatever the refresh rate of your screen is), it will downclock the GPU to prevent wasted frames or screen tearing. I am not sure exactly how the frame rate limiter works since I have no experience with it (due to v-sync...) so i'm not sure if it does the same as v-sync or not, but a rate limiter sounds like it just limits the FPS getting to the monitor to 60 but still allows the GPU to run full speed

    Frame limit allows downclock too, card renders only 59-60 frames, similar to V-Sync - if it would not, I would forget about such frame limit - too much lost power and unnecessary heat, anyway, the difference might be the reason of stutter.
     
    Vlada011
    I don't use frame limiter or VSync at all, only adaptive VSync in NVIDIA Control Panel.

    I understand that gives a great result, but I just can't stay controller lag. Even with prerendered frames set to 1 and triple-buffering - I always have bit annoying mouse lag.
     
    Ok, so I know I've asked strange question - but there's small update now, some games have stutter even while playing with V-Sync on 770, but I have not checked these games under 570. Great example is Spintires - frame time graph looks like electrocardiogram ;). I'm currently at work and I can't post screens of the result, but I will run the same game on same settings on different card and see the difference today. If frame time will have similar spikes on both cards, then I think it will be game fault (or other part of my PC, but I doubt it because used this 570 for 4 years and have not noticed any problems).
     
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    greg1984
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    Re: Strange frame limiter behaviour when set for GTX 770, works fine for old 570 2014/08/29 23:11:11 (permalink)
    Sorry for digging out this old thread but I had no time to even play any games during that period. Finally, while having some time, I've spend last weekend investigating the issue (yeah I know I'm stubborn.... :) ). I've bought new HDD (some problems showed up on old one) and Win 8.1 to reinstall everything from scratch. Frame limiter works fine (setting it using nVidia Inspector). I've also found the reason for v-sync micro stutter (when power profile is set to high performance in Win and nVidia control panel) - when 60 FPS V-Sync is engaged (without frame limit) and rendered scene needs very little resources (so card could render something like 120-150 FPS), veery small micro stutter can be observed and I've tested it on 3 different gaming PC (ATI and nVidia). Easy to fix and I have no issues with it any more.
     
    TLDR;
    I would like to ask, now much more precise question, about my last problem. I was still unable to resolve overall stuttering issue (no frame limit or vsync).
    Only wanted to ask - do you guys think it is normal? If no, I will RMA my card and topic can be closed. If yes, topic can be closed too :).
    Please note frame time spikes to 29-30ms. Game: Grid Autosport; FPS: 80. During single race, 30ms frame time spike can be observed during gameplay.
     
    Thanks!
    post edited by greg1984 - 2014/08/30 11:58:38

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