So what's the Deal manufactures switching GTX780's to Elpida memory ?

ty_ger07

Marrv

I missed all the name calling, not really necessary. but I'm not quite sure the "defenders" are putting their view very delicately ! we are talking expensive high end parts here and not just a cheap old GFX cards.
People don't generally buy this stuff without an understanding of what it does and what it can do if you push it, everyone realises overclocks are a bonus but we have come to expect that to be reasonable, rightly or wrongly.

I understand but I also disagree.  I would agree if it created a difference to the product specifications.  But this is an un-measurable difference because it affects something outside the product's specifications (overclocking) which was never constant in the first place.  Just because you don't like the brand of memory doesn't mean that the memory is necessarily worse or that EVGA and other manufacturers are ripping off their customers.

You should expect the unexpected and expect that one card with Elpida may perform better than a card with Samsung memory and another card with Samsung memory may perform better than a card with Elpida memory.  You are assuming or perceiving a difference which is not measurable because there are too many other variables.  We are talking about overclocking after-all and everyone should know to make no expectations.

We don't know that every card with Samsung memory is better than every card with Elpida memory.  Actually, to the opposite, we can very easily prove that is false.  Some cards with Samsung memory will be duds and some cards with Elpida memory will be stay performers.

All I can say is that if you don't like it, don't buy the product.

LOL that was the main issue, I had no way of knowing the memory was different... might be a little more transparent for new purchasers now ! This memory does not react like Samsung, one hiccup and it crashes everything, Samsung would just limp along error correcting if you pushed it to hard.

pharma57

Really not into overclocking before then ... sli'd eVGA 680's before but only became interested after getting a Classified.  I have two cards, one from first batch and the other received last Thursday. 
Edit:  Before I hung at Guru3d with a primary interest in Drivers.

 
Guess your just really lucky then.

pharma57

"So my card came with 80.10.36 BIOS and I haven't changed it. Are they the ones using the Samsung memory and the ones using "3A" Elpida memory? Sorry just wanted to know "

It's probably Samsung memory, but eVGA support will be able to confirm.  Mine is '3A' and is Elpida modules.

Yes "3A" is Elpida the bios file is also much smaller so I don't know what else has changed.

USFORCES

pharma57

Really not into overclocking before then ... sli'd eVGA 680's before but only became interested after getting a Classified.  I have two cards, one from first batch and the other received last Thursday. 
Edit:  Before I hung at Guru3d with a primary interest in Drivers.

Guess your just really lucky then.

 Guess so ... I can say I really pushed it hard to find limits of changes in the 3 different voltages.  Not sure if it matters but the end result was better OC's and less artifacts. 

pharm57 you sure you don't work for Evga?
I can't help but notice your name shows up darker than everyone else's does, lol 
 
  
  
 

lol,  you'll have to ask the Admins about that.  I was kind of wondering why my name showed up in bold in your post. 
 

Marrv

ty_ger07

Marrv

I missed all the name calling, not really necessary. but I'm not quite sure the "defenders" are putting their view very delicately ! we are talking expensive high end parts here and not just a cheap old GFX cards.
People don't generally buy this stuff without an understanding of what it does and what it can do if you push it, everyone realises overclocks are a bonus but we have come to expect that to be reasonable, rightly or wrongly.

I understand but I also disagree.  I would agree if it created a difference to the product specifications.  But this is an un-measurable difference because it affects something outside the product's specifications (overclocking) which was never constant in the first place.  Just because you don't like the brand of memory doesn't mean that the memory is necessarily worse or that EVGA and other manufacturers are ripping off their customers.

You should expect the unexpected and expect that one card with Elpida may perform better than a card with Samsung memory and another card with Samsung memory may perform better than a card with Elpida memory.  You are assuming or perceiving a difference which is not measurable because there are too many other variables.  We are talking about overclocking after-all and everyone should know to make no expectations.

We don't know that every card with Samsung memory is better than every card with Elpida memory.  Actually, to the opposite, we can very easily prove that is false.  Some cards with Samsung memory will be duds and some cards with Elpida memory will be stay performers.

All I can say is that if you don't like it, don't buy the product.

LOL that was the main issue, I had no way of knowing the memory was different... might be a little more transparent for new purchasers now ! This memory does not react like Samsung, one hiccup and it crashes everything, Samsung would just limp along error correcting if you pushed it to hard.

 
And that's the point that I made when US was talking about the Corvette (and it'll probably come with a supercharger again unless GM really is intending the C7 Stingray to be more of a global platform it'll go Turbo).  The owner won't know till they buy one and open it up.  After that they have all the right IMO to return it as all the pictures of the cards before and promos was with the Samsung chips.  

His name shows up normal color for me. Maybe it looks bold for you USForces because you visited his profile?

ty_ger07

His name shows up normal color for me. Maybe it looks bold for you USForces because you visited his profile?

 
Yeah that must be why, lol

Rei86

Marrv

ty_ger07

Marrv

I missed all the name calling, not really necessary. but I'm not quite sure the "defenders" are putting their view very delicately ! we are talking expensive high end parts here and not just a cheap old GFX cards.
People don't generally buy this stuff without an understanding of what it does and what it can do if you push it, everyone realises overclocks are a bonus but we have come to expect that to be reasonable, rightly or wrongly.

I understand but I also disagree.  I would agree if it created a difference to the product specifications.  But this is an un-measurable difference because it affects something outside the product's specifications (overclocking) which was never constant in the first place.  Just because you don't like the brand of memory doesn't mean that the memory is necessarily worse or that EVGA and other manufacturers are ripping off their customers.

You should expect the unexpected and expect that one card with Elpida may perform better than a card with Samsung memory and another card with Samsung memory may perform better than a card with Elpida memory.  You are assuming or perceiving a difference which is not measurable because there are too many other variables.  We are talking about overclocking after-all and everyone should know to make no expectations.

We don't know that every card with Samsung memory is better than every card with Elpida memory.  Actually, to the opposite, we can very easily prove that is false.  Some cards with Samsung memory will be duds and some cards with Elpida memory will be stay performers.

All I can say is that if you don't like it, don't buy the product.

LOL that was the main issue, I had no way of knowing the memory was different... might be a little more transparent for new purchasers now ! This memory does not react like Samsung, one hiccup and it crashes everything, Samsung would just limp along error correcting if you pushed it to hard.

And that's the point that I made when US was talking about the Corvette (and it'll probably come with a supercharger again unless GM really is intending the C7 Stingray to be more of a global platform it'll go Turbo).  The owner won't know till they buy one and open it up.  After that they have all the right IMO to return it as all the pictures of the cards before and promos was with the Samsung chips.  

 
I understand, but..

1. Who released the pictures of the cards?  Did NVIDIA or EVGA release any pictures of the cards showing Samsung memory? 
2. Your car analogy doesn't make sense.  These cards aren't missing memory.  They have the exact same amount of memory with the same specifications.  You simply don't like one brand of memory as much as the other even though it can't be proven that one is actually better than the other.

ty_ger07

Rei86

Marrv

ty_ger07

Marrv

I missed all the name calling, not really necessary. but I'm not quite sure the "defenders" are putting their view very delicately ! we are talking expensive high end parts here and not just a cheap old GFX cards.
People don't generally buy this stuff without an understanding of what it does and what it can do if you push it, everyone realises overclocks are a bonus but we have come to expect that to be reasonable, rightly or wrongly.

I understand but I also disagree.  I would agree if it created a difference to the product specifications.  But this is an un-measurable difference because it affects something outside the product's specifications (overclocking) which was never constant in the first place.  Just because you don't like the brand of memory doesn't mean that the memory is necessarily worse or that EVGA and other manufacturers are ripping off their customers.

You should expect the unexpected and expect that one card with Elpida may perform better than a card with Samsung memory and another card with Samsung memory may perform better than a card with Elpida memory.  You are assuming or perceiving a difference which is not measurable because there are too many other variables.  We are talking about overclocking after-all and everyone should know to make no expectations.

We don't know that every card with Samsung memory is better than every card with Elpida memory.  Actually, to the opposite, we can very easily prove that is false.  Some cards with Samsung memory will be duds and some cards with Elpida memory will be stay performers.

All I can say is that if you don't like it, don't buy the product.

LOL that was the main issue, I had no way of knowing the memory was different... might be a little more transparent for new purchasers now ! This memory does not react like Samsung, one hiccup and it crashes everything, Samsung would just limp along error correcting if you pushed it to hard.

And that's the point that I made when US was talking about the Corvette (and it'll probably come with a supercharger again unless GM really is intending the C7 Stingray to be more of a global platform it'll go Turbo).  The owner won't know till they buy one and open it up.  After that they have all the right IMO to return it as all the pictures of the cards before and promos was with the Samsung chips.  

I understand, but..

1. Who released the pictures of the cards?  Did NVIDIA or EVGA release any pictures of the cards showing Samsung memory? 
2. Your car analogy doesn't make sense.  These cards aren't missing memory.  They have the exact same amount of memory with the same specifications.  You simply don't like one brand of memory as much as the other even though it can't be proven that one is actually better than the other.

 
1. Have you ever watched an EVGA Product video?
2. I didn't make the car analogy

Only thing illegal is changing the brand when already posting the original memory had used a particular ones that the customer had though was but you'd have to prove that in the courts. :P  False advertising?
 
Can you buy a already built 3.0 GHz PC that is intel and said intel but they end up sending you a AMD at 3.0 so they profit or save more $$$.  You wanted intel right or had thought it was before they changed it last minute?  Kind of the same concept it's looking like here.

You just mentioned the car thing. Sorry, I assumed you were the first one to mention it. I didn't look back.

You are saying that you can read the memory manufacture and model in a product video? Link? I usually can hardly read it in real life because it is usually grainy and poor contrast.
 
EDIT:
Here is a picture at 4521 x 1834 and still the memory manufacture is hardly legible.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GTX_780_SC_ACX_Cooler/images/front_full.jpg
 
You can read that in an EVGA product video?

Many companies and industries do the same thing (Hi Apple!). It is what it is. Move on to complaining about something else.

780 classified before and after

Is there some way to know which other manufacturers started using these crappy Elpida memory chips and which ones still have Samsungs?
 
Obviously not going to get the EVGAs now.

Nomanor

Is there some way to know which other manufacturers started using these crappy Elpida memory chips and which ones still have Samsungs?

Obviously not going to get the EVGAs now.

I think every board partner who ran out of initial stock is using Elpida memory now.  Remember that NVIDIA is the manufacturer and all these partners (EVGA etc.) share similar business connections and will obviously similarly be affected by lack of supply.  If Samsung doesn't have memory to sell to EVGA, what makes you think that they have memory to sell to Zotac (for instance)?
 
So, if you don't want "crappy" Elpida memory (even though you can't prove it is any worse than the Samsung memory), you need to find a way of knowing whether the card you want to purchase is one of the very first released before Samsung ran out of memory.  Likely, most cards you find now will have Elpida memory.

there is nothing wrong with Elpida guys ..it may not scale as high as say Hynix,Samsung but the latency this ICs can provide are top notch and when properly cooled it will smoke Samsung or Hynix 
http://imageshack.us/f/843/220026007106202010v.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/f/542/cooold2.jpg/
 
EDIT; this is what's on eVGA


http://www.elpida.com/pdfs/E1864E10.pdf
1. Configuration
The Elpida GDDR5 SGRAM is a high speed dynamic random-access memory designed for applications requiringhigh bandwidth. It contains 2,147,483,648 bits and is internally configured as a 16-bank DRAM.The GDDR5 SGRAM uses a 8n prefetch architecture and DDR interface to achieve high-speed operation. Thedevice can be configured to operate in x32 mode or x16 (clamshell) mode. The mode is detected during deviceinitialization. The GDDR5 interface transfers two 32 bit wide data words per WCK clock cycle to/from the I/O pins.Corresponding to the 8n prefetch a single write or read access consists of a 256 bit wide, two CK clock cycle datatransfer at the internal memory core and eight corresponding 32 bit wide one-half WCK clock cycle data transfersat the I/O pins.The GDDR5 SGRAM operates from a differential clock CK and /CK. Commands are registered at every rising edgeof CK. Addresses are registered at every rising edge of CK and every rising edge of /CK.GDDR5 replaces the pulsed strobes (WDQS & RDQS) used in previous DRAMs such as GDDR4 with a free runningdifferential forwarded clock (WCK, /WCK) with both input and output data registered and driven respectively at bothedges of the forwarded WCK.Read and write accesses to the GDDR5 SGRAM are burst oriented; an access starts at a selected location andcontinues for a total of eight data words. Accesses begin with the registration of an ACTIVE command, which is thenfollowed by a READ or WRITE command. The address bits registered coincident with the ACTIVE command andthe next rising /CK edge are used to select the bank and the row to be accessed. The address bits registeredcoincident with the READ or WRITE command and the next rising /CK edge are used to select the bank and thecolumn location for the burst access.
 
EDIT 2; I'm looking forward to see if there will some gains under h20  at the end of the day you may see  less artifacts 

gtxjackbauer

Only thing illegal is changing the brand when already posting the original memory had used a particular ones that the customer had though was but you'd have to prove that in the courts. :P  False advertising?

Can you buy a already built 3.0 GHz PC that is intel and said intel but they end up sending you a AMD at 3.0 so they profit or save more $$$.  You wanted intel right or had thought it was before they changed it last minute?  Kind of the same concept it's looking like here.

The allegory would be ordering ordering a car with velor seat coverings and getting cloth. Yours is like claiming you ordered a Chevy and they sent you a Ford.

HeavyHemi

gtxjackbauer

Only thing illegal is changing the brand when already posting the original memory had used a particular ones that the customer had though was but you'd have to prove that in the courts. :P  False advertising?

Can you buy a already built 3.0 GHz PC that is intel and said intel but they end up sending you a AMD at 3.0 so they profit or save more $$$.  You wanted intel right or had thought it was before they changed it last minute?  Kind of the same concept it's looking like here.

The allegory would be ordering ordering a car with velor seat coverings and getting cloth. Yours is like claiming you ordered a Chevy and they sent you a Ford.

Not really cause you're buying a prebuilt PC. :P  You're buying a whole new car and it comes cloth.  Samething but I don't really care.  I got caught up in the action after reading some of these posts.  Funny thing is, from my past experience with Scamsung, I told myself and have boycotted them for sometime for some shaddy stuff they pulled with one of their cellphones.  Since than I haven't purchased anything from them.  So I guess this is a good thing in my world.  Plus, it'll all be under water. 

 "Plus, it'll all be under water."
 
There's nothing like drowning under water!  

pharma57

 "Plus, it'll all be under water."

There's nothing like drowning under water!  

 

The real car analogy would be if a company sold a car with a turbo manufactured by one company and then down the line changed it to another turbo manufactured by a different company. You would never know unless you tore it apart and 99% of people don't care, they're just happy with a turbo.

The car company doesn't say, "turbo by so and so company" they just say a turbo, just like EVGA doesn't put, "memory by Samsung" on the box. EVGA never advertised a specific memory brand. As long as it performs the same function at the required levels it doesn't matter what manufacturer of specific components they have. They use what they have on hand.

Only thing I can see happening is people that bought the first cards and then added a second card with the different memory. 
Samsung and Elpida overclock different, Samsung likes voltage and Elpida don't plus runs hotter hopefully it isn't a problem. So far the highest bench scores I've seen were with cards using the Samsung memory, I guess time will tell.

   

Hmm... I'm kind of torn how I feel about this.
 
To be fair:
 
1) the card is not advertised to include a certain brand memory; only that it has a certain amount and clocks to stock specs (anything past is just a bonus regardless of previews or earlier reviews) Really reminds me of how early 4770k reviews had cherry picked cooler running chips and people got disappointed when production chips ran hotter.
 
2) True most users will not notice a performance difference either way
 
BUT I can't help but feel annoyed.
 
1) This didn't come up until people found out themselves and questioned it. Props on EVGA on responding afterwards though.
 
2) Despite whether or not people will notice real world performance differences... Half the reason to buy a Classified is to overclock and the other half is pretty much showing off via epeen OC numbers. If you aren't buying this to OC ... you may as well buy a reference 780 imo.
 
3) Brings into question... what about Hydrocopper Classifieds when they come out? Since some had been waiting for a HC version cause they didn't want to slap the block on separately themselves I can easily see why they'd be upset for holding out.

Some insiders claim that MSI Lightning are going to be pretty awesome:
 
1) http://www.overclock.net/.../1230_30#post_20595926
 
2) http://www.overclock.net/.../1230_30#post_20596358

so are the gtx 770's using the samsung memory or Elpida memory?

Honestly, this issue is a bit obsessive compulsive. I bet the "Pepsi challenge" would indicate very little or no difference between cards with Elpida memory and cards with Sammy memory. We give a lot of credence to brand name, but yeah....I'm not sold on the superiority of Samsung memory just because its made by Samsung.
 
Heck, I don't buy EVGA because I think their stuff is magically better than MSI or Gigabyte. I buy it because of the Warranty and customer service. Those things are much more quantifiable and less random than things like individual memory modules.
 
I'm not dissuading or discouraging anyone else's opinions on this, but I just want to give that perspective.

zenfoldorI buy it because of the Warranty and customer service. Those things are much more quantifiable and less random than things like individual memory modules.

 
Well said Zen.  I totally agree with you. 

zenfoldor
Honestly, this issue is a bit obsessive compulsive. I bet the "Pepsi challenge" would indicate very little or no difference between cards with Elpida memory and cards with Sammy memory. We give a lot of credence to brand name, but yeah....I'm not sold on the superiority of Samsung memory just because its made by Samsung.

You may think whatever you like, but it is a proven FACT that Elpida memory chips run hotter and don't overclock even half as good as Samsung. They are making the card run hotter, significantly handicapping the Overclocking.
 
When I pay $700 for a video card I don't want to compromise, I want the best components possible. Especially on a flagship card like Classified.

Proven fact? I have asked you at least three times in this thread to prove it.

Nomanor
 
You may think whatever you like, but it is a proven FACT that Elpida memory chips run hotter and don't overclock even half as good as Samsung. They are making the card run hotter, significantly handicapping the Overclocking. 
  
When I pay $700 for a video card I don't want to compromise, I want the best components possible. Especially on a flagship card like Classified. 
 

 
How many times do we have to say it? The components are up to spec for the card. If you want a piece of the PCB to be manufactured by a specific company for you, then you're living in a dream land thinking that'll only cost you $700. Ever heard of supply and demand? There wasn't enough samsung, so they went to number 2. It still does exactly what it is supposed to do in the card. 
 
Also, show me real, detailed tests that show the difference between Elpida and Samsung in this exact card. It seems that most people complaining about it don't have anything to back up their claims. They just read people QQ'ing on OCN and assume they must be right. 
 
If your ram running hotter is hampering the overclocking of the card, then cool it better. These were meant for water anyways, if you're serious about overclocking them. Which you are apparently, since the type of ram is a huge deal to you.

^^ Truth. If a stock clocked GPU hits 90* then a OC'd GPU pretty much NEEDS water to perform.