Cosmosis909
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 00:08:34
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Ok to the guys who still have the issue are you running your ATA controller in IDE mode AHCI? I just did some more testing and when set to AHCI on my system the stutter was there even when using the process affinity trick. I just set the controller back to IDE mode and the stutter was gone using the affinity trick.
Might be worth a shot for some people.
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xxdannyxx
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 00:13:48
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My question is do you guys experience stutter in single player or multi? i only play multi with sli 480's and never experienced stutter.
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squall-leonhart
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 01:21:01
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Cosmosis909
Ok to the guys who still have the issue are you running your ATA controller in IDE mode AHCI? I just did some more testing and when set to AHCI on my system the stutter was there even when using the process affinity trick. I just set the controller back to IDE mode and the stutter was gone using the affinity trick.
Might be worth a shot for some people.
upgrade your SATA drivers, this is known to happen with intels matrix storage drivers and older AMD sata drivers
CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
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Cosmosis909
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 01:42:29
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squall-leonhart
Cosmosis909
Ok to the guys who still have the issue are you running your ATA controller in IDE mode AHCI? I just did some more testing and when set to AHCI on my system the stutter was there even when using the process affinity trick. I just set the controller back to IDE mode and the stutter was gone using the affinity trick.
Might be worth a shot for some people.
upgrade your SATA drivers, this is known to happen with intels matrix storage drivers and older AMD sata drivers
I was using the latest Intel Rapid storage driver. Version 9.6 as soon as switched back to ide and uninstalled the driver the stutter was gone using the affinity tweak.
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squall-leonhart
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 02:11:00
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Cosmosis909
squall-leonhart
Cosmosis909
Ok to the guys who still have the issue are you running your ATA controller in IDE mode AHCI? I just did some more testing and when set to AHCI on my system the stutter was there even when using the process affinity trick. I just set the controller back to IDE mode and the stutter was gone using the affinity trick.
Might be worth a shot for some people.
upgrade your SATA drivers, this is known to happen with intels matrix storage drivers and older AMD sata drivers
I was using the latest Intel Rapid storage driver. Version 9.6 as soon as switched back to ide and uninstalled the driver the stutter was gone using the affinity tweak.
9.6.4.1002?
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Cosmosis909
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 02:18:12
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Hmmm I was using 9.6.0.1014 where can I get the version you mentioned?
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squall-leonhart
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 02:22:00
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Cosmosis909
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 02:23:24
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Cheers I will give it a try tomorrow.
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squall-leonhart
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 02:28:01
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your SATA controller and GFX card aren't on the same irq by any chance?
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nexxusty
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 02:32:07
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squall-leonhart
Cosmosis909
squall-leonhart
Cosmosis909
Ok to the guys who still have the issue are you running your ATA controller in IDE mode AHCI? I just did some more testing and when set to AHCI on my system the stutter was there even when using the process affinity trick. I just set the controller back to IDE mode and the stutter was gone using the affinity trick.
Might be worth a shot for some people.
Gotta be NCQ. I had a theory about this as well. Going to test.
upgrade your SATA drivers, this is known to happen with intels matrix storage drivers and older AMD sata drivers
I was using the latest Intel Rapid storage driver. Version 9.6 as soon as switched back to ide and uninstalled the driver the stutter was gone using the affinity tweak.
9.6.4.1002?
AOC G2460PG 1080P 144hz 1ms GSYNC Corsair Air 540 Corsair AX860i EVGA X99 Classified (BIOS 1.16) i7 5930k @ 4.0ghz (1.2v) Corsair 16gb LPX 3200mhz 15-15-15-35 1T (1.4v) EVGA GTX 980 1480/8000mhz Sound Blaster ZxR Samsung 840 Pro 128gb (Boot) Samsung SM951 512gb (Crippled @ X4 2.0)
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nexxusty
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 02:44:13
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It has to be NCQ.
That's the largest difference between IDE mode and AHCI. And hot pluggable drives.
In fact, correct me if I am wrong but think aside from a few minor diffrences, those ARE the only big differences between AHCI and IDE mode.
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Cosmosis909
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 03:38:42
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squall-leonhart
your SATA controller and GFX card aren't on the same irq by any chance?
With the controller set to IDE mode its using IRQ 20. The 480 is on IRQ 30 I will check tomorrow when I set to back to ACHI.
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 06:44:32
(permalink)
I've read every post on this subject here and at Nvidia and so far there are only a few people giving advice to try and figure out why this is happening. Chizow is one of them whether you want to admit it or not. I researched probably just about as much as you guys have in hopes of finding a resolution to this. What's even more interesting is that I don't even have the problem. I've purposefully stayed out of these posts because of one major reason. You see, I am the one who sold the XFX 5870 to the person who started the original thread. I used that card for a few months and loved it to death. I never had a problem with it. When he got it, it suddenly had stuttering. That's right! He stated in his thread that it did not have stuttering; rather, it had severe artifacts (if you don't believe me then go back and read it again). However, here are a few excerpts from correspondence with him when I offered to buy it back: name deleted
I'm going to hold off on it atm, because I have a friend who may purchase it from me, and I"ll just go and purchase a GTX 480,...I have however enjoyed it, the graphics in it are stunning, I mean it really looks brilliant, I've noticed so much cooler effects with this card opposed to my 8800 gts 512, but with the random stuttering It makes the games almost unplayable...
name deleted
Ran vantage as per XFX instruction, there is stuttering = / ...
name deleted
There is a major stutter every 5-6 seconds when moving in a FPS game, almost like the card isn't getting power. I've went online about it, I guess it's a known issues since 2007, and many have just said it's the card themselves, so I may need to replace this.
I offered to buy the card back from him for the same price he paid me for it and I also offered to pay for the shipping. Basically, he was offered no loss of money in any way. He did not want to take me up on that offer. I was going to keep my mouth shut, but now I feel it necessary to bring this to light. I'm certainly not trying to tell anyone that they are not having the stutter/hitch, but I suspect there is more to this than what some of you really want to admit. So far, from what I've read, it's not just an Nvidia problem like so many of you want to believe. I don't have an answer, and from this point forward, I really won't be trying to find an answer either. Sorry for your problems, but this type of arguing and bickering just makes me want to drive on with my rig and not try to help. I didn't have any stutter with the 5870 and I don't have any stutter with my 470 SLI. I hope you guys get a fix...and I sincerely mean that.
post edited by Delirious. - 2010/08/14 10:21:56
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DNOTTIS
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 06:57:34
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Guys - we've already seen that SLI setups need the power of 4 cores... so if you are running SLI trying to disable the 4th core won't help - we know that already though.
Cosmosis - I'm running IDE but before I was running Raid 0. I was never in ACHI mode. I have another Samsung Spinpoint 1TB F3 (just replaced my 2x 640gb aaks) coming this week though and will be going back to raid 0 so I'll see if I get the stutter in Raid 0 mode when I disable the 4th core.
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Robs03gts
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 06:57:53
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I guess at this point I will just hang on to my HD 5870 and switch back to Nvidia perhaps after I do a complete system upgrade. This is frustrating because I do preffer Nvidia over ATI but im not ready to do a complete system overhaul just because something within my current rig is conflicting with the GTX 480. I just dont see how my CPU is to blame as its a Q9550@4.3ghz, no way that CPU is bottlenecking a GTX 480, not at 1920X1200 with AA and AF. My current rig with its overclock should be more than enough to allow me to skip over the I7's all together which is exactly what I intend to do.
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DNOTTIS
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 07:09:56
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Robs03gts
I guess at this point I will just hang on to my HD 5870 and switch back to Nvidia perhaps after I do a complete system upgrade. This is frustrating because I do preffer Nvidia over ATI but im not ready to do a complete system overhaul just because something within my current rig is conflicting with the GTX 480.
I just dont see how my CPU is to blame as its a Q9550@4.3ghz, no way that CPU is bottlenecking a GTX 480, not at 1920X1200 with AA and AF. My current rig with its overclock should be more than enough to allow me to skip over the I7's all together which is exactly what I intend to do.
I'd wait till Nvidia actually fixes the problem. But we are getting confirmation on many forums that this is fixing the problem. Im waiting for more results to come in though. It seems on an SLI system you need the power of all 4 cores though. But for the rest of us with a single GPU only using 3 cores is working wonders. This is making more sense now though, when forcing DX10 we were also using pre-rendered frames to 0 and this was smooth with DX10 (although still stuttered with DX11), what we are doing is taking away work from the CPU, so contradictory to what others were thinking this is looking like the CPU is actually outworking / overworking / working faster than the GPU needed the CPU to deliver frames the GPU - in this game anyways. Now by disabling one core, again we are crippling like the i7 (or quads) and are now seeing smooth game play - however in SLI the cards need that 4th core to remain smooth. I'm sure others will argue, but from what I've done to troubleshoot this issue it makes sense. I've approached this as a CPU bottlneck issue, as we've been told over and over, in reality I don't think thats the case. At least we now have a work around until Nvidia can do something for us through their drivers.
post edited by DNOTTIS - 2010/08/14 07:15:13
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Robs03gts
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 07:15:00
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DNOTTIS
But for the rest of us with a single GPU only using 3 cores is working wonders.
Thats just so weird, lol.
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DNOTTIS
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 07:19:00
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yea, for anyone that doesn't know, afterburner and the 258 drivers can cause issues (esp with 2xx cards, but can affect 4xx and everyone else) - if you run afterburner... goto settings, monitoring tab, and disable fan speed from here.
This has been a documented and known issue though with the polling time set in the new drivers. When I have it installed I make sure this is done - the last few weeks I havent even had afterburner installed though.
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 07:47:48
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OK.... Folks... General Warning for everyone. No personal attacks. Re-Read the TOS before you make another post please... (Link)
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squall-leonhart
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 08:19:39
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DNOTTIS
Robs03gts
I guess at this point I will just hang on to my HD 5870 and switch back to Nvidia perhaps after I do a complete system upgrade. This is frustrating because I do preffer Nvidia over ATI but im not ready to do a complete system overhaul just because something within my current rig is conflicting with the GTX 480.
I just dont see how my CPU is to blame as its a Q9550@4.3ghz, no way that CPU is bottlenecking a GTX 480, not at 1920X1200 with AA and AF. My current rig with its overclock should be more than enough to allow me to skip over the I7's all together which is exactly what I intend to do.
I'd wait till Nvidia actually fixes the problem. But we are getting confirmation on many forums that this is fixing the problem. Im waiting for more results to come in though. It seems on an SLI system you need the power of all 4 cores though. But for the rest of us with a single GPU only using 3 cores is working wonders.
This is making more sense now though, when forcing DX10 we were also using pre-rendered frames to 0 and this was smooth with DX10 (although still stuttered with DX11), what we are doing is taking away work from the CPU, so contradictory to what others were thinking this is looking like the CPU is actually outworking / overworking / working faster than the GPU needed the CPU to deliver frames the GPU - in this game anyways. Now by disabling one core, again we are crippling like the i7 (or quads) and are now seeing smooth game play - however in SLI the cards need that 4th core to remain smooth. I'm sure others will argue, but from what I've done to troubleshoot this issue it makes sense. I've approached this as a CPU bottlneck issue, as we've been told over and over, in reality I don't think thats the case. At least we now have a work around until Nvidia can do something for us through their drivers.
im not convinced its a Cpu/Core issue (on Single cards atleast), rather it would be more believable to be a platform issue. im not sure if prerendered frames are stored in system memory, i expect they would be in a game engine, The driver would likely feed them directly to the gpu into the Frame chain/Queue. i am aware that the prerender setting in other BF games has caused all sorts of hell though, so many feel it best to just kill it off and use the drivers setting.
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DNOTTIS
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 08:44:08
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squall-leonhart
im not convinced its a Cpu/Core issue (on Single cards atleast), rather it would be more believable to be a platform issue.
im not sure if prerendered frames are stored in system memory, i expect they would be in a game engine, The driver would likely feed them directly to the gpu into the Frame chain/Queue. i am aware that the prerender setting in other BF games has caused all sorts of hell though, so many feel it best to just kill it off and use the drivers setting.
Well its not a "platform" issue as we've already proven many times simply swapping out an Nvidia GPU for ATI cures this 100%. We are waiting on Nvidia now. I've also let Jacob know what is going on and they are looking at this as well. We've got a workaround and now the people that need to fix it are working on it. There is no need to argue over any of this anymore. Its not a system issue if you can swap to another brand of GPU. Let's just see what happens.
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squall-leonhart
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 09:04:38
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Platform is used loosely in regards to the base configuration of the system.
Placing a ATI graphics card in a VIA KT600 would work in AGP8x too, while most Geforce cards would have rendering issues. This was not an nvidia issue, but a issue in the VIA chipset logic not being fully stable with certain aspects of the specification that ATI did not take advantage of (side pipelining for instance).
Implementation of chips, VRM's, capacitors, transistors, etc.
Nvidia just admitted to the x38/x48 issue with 460's and DPC latency for instance.
Creative blamed Nforce 4 chipsets (bs, the xfi just isn't pci 2.3 compliant) for crackling and stuttering (drivers proved otherwise).
What devices are sharing IRQ's with your USB, Sound and Video cards? Theory dictates that sharing is no longer a problem, but reality disagree's.....
I remember some Geforce 7 cards would not perform their best without a bump to agp voltage.
There is alot of Aspects in a modern computer that can throw out these sorts of results.
CPU:Intel i7 920 @ 3.8(D0), Mainboard:Asus Rampage II Gene, Memory:12GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 09:21:49
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DNOTTIS
Well its not a "platform" issue as we've already proven many times simply swapping out an Nvidia GPU for ATI cures this 100%.
You are making an absolute statement that is not true in every case.
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SLBoy
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 09:23:10
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Nice try, but didn't work here 
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chizow
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 10:23:27
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@nexxusty, you're not worth the time or effort as you obviously can't even comprehend well enough to attribute quotes properly. DNOTTIS
This is making more sense now though, when forcing DX10 we were also using pre-rendered frames to 0 and this was smooth with DX10 (although still stuttered with DX11), what we are doing is taking away work from the CPU, so contradictory to what others were thinking this is looking like the CPU is actually outworking / overworking / working faster than the GPU needed the CPU to deliver frames the GPU - in this game anyways. Now by disabling one core, again we are crippling like the i7 (or quads) and are now seeing smooth game play - however in SLI the cards need that 4th core to remain smooth. I'm sure others will argue, but from what I've done to troubleshoot this issue it makes sense. I've approached this as a CPU bottlneck issue, as we've been told over and over, in reality I don't think thats the case. At least we now have a work around until Nvidia can do something for us through their drivers.
Again, this is what I was referring to with regard to the CPU not being able to keep up with frame rates and producing irregular frame times. By disabling the 4th core you are shifting all load back onto the 3 other cores, taking CPU cycles away from the main render thread producing pre-rendered frames...and smoothing out FPS by essentially installing a FRAME CAP or frame limiter. Where does all this sound familiar? I've said it numerous times in the other thread. Did any of you 3 core folks bother to check what kind of FPS or frame times you're seeing now compared to before? I bet you're not getting those huge fluctuations in frame times anymore are you? We also have further evidence of this as SLI users who absolutely need more CPU performance are seeing worst performance by dropping a core. That was always the point of demonstrating a CPU bottleneck in your instance, to show you that even though you are getting 100FPS, you're still CPU limited with Core i7 because the game is simply very CPU demanding and the game engine wasn't able to produce frame rates smoothly to feed your GPU as a result. This was also to demonstrate GPU usage % was absolutely tied to this same CPU bottleneck, but at 100+FPS it should not matter. It was also to show GPU usage % had no direct link to microstutter and that at 100+FPS it was no reason for concern anyways even though many like yourself insisted it was a driver problem directly linked to microstutter, when its not. The more serious case of CPU bottlenecking here is for all the people with slow CPUs who are also getting low GPU utilization, but more importantly, low FPS, for which this fix is not going to help at all. If anything disaabling a core on a slower CPU in BFBC2 is going to make their performance worst. The reason I made the distinction is because its obvious their problems were not the same as yours, which is why I repeatedly warned against lumping them together. Because as we see, you now have your fix by simply tweaking the client, but they still have their low FPS, low GPU usage and generally stuttery/poor performing game.
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chizow
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 10:32:54
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YerBuddy
DNOTTIS
Well its not a "platform" issue as we've already proven many times simply swapping out an Nvidia GPU for ATI cures this 100%.
You are making an absolute statement that is not true in every case.
I agree, I'd like to see if this fixes the same problem for all the ATI users seeing it in threads like this (which shows obviously ATI doesn't cure this 100%): http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/300/423863.page Just as many of us don't see the stutter on our Nvidia cards with or without the CPU fix doesn't mean Nvidia cures this 100%....
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diynoob
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 10:35:59
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YerBuddy
DNOTTIS
Well its not a "platform" issue as we've already proven many times simply swapping out an Nvidia GPU for ATI cures this 100%.
You are making an absolute statement that is not true in every case.
Not only is it not true in every case, it's a logic fallacy. The only thing "proven" by swapping cards is that the INTERACTION between the game and GPU is better in some cases. For all we know right now, the ATI driver is patching the BFBC2 glitch through drivers (yes, video drivers have rewritten game code in the past to optimize its graphic performance).
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Robs03gts
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 10:40:32
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chizow
The more serious case of CPU bottlenecking here is for all the people with slow CPUs. In case anyone was wondering what chizow's defenition of a slow CPU is its anything that is <CoreI7@4ghz as he plainly told me in another thread that my Q9550@4.3ghz is a slow CPU and that my system is considered to be low end. 
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chizow
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 10:51:08
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Robs03gts
chizow
The more serious case of CPU bottlenecking here is for all the people with slow CPUs.
In case anyone was wondering what chizow's defenition of a slow CPU is its anything that is <CoreI7@4ghz as he plainly told me in another thread that my Q9550@4.3ghz is a slow CPU and that my system is considered to be low end.
Yep its clearly not as fast as you think it is, and certainly not fast enough to eliminate any CPU bottlenecks as you've insisted numerous times. Will you get more FPS in BFBC2 with an i7 clocked at the same speed? Absolutely, but if you're already getting 80+ FPS should you be worried? Of course not. The point was always to show your concerns about low GPU usage % were unfounded and had no direct ties to microstutter. If anything a faster CPU able to produce more FPS and push GPU usage % up (120+ FPS for example always with no dips). Here's what I do know however, this fix or any other on the driver level won't be enough to cure the GPU usage% "problem" you've been chasing pointlessly for weeks. Fermi needs faster CPUs to keep it fed, plain and simple, but even with "low" GPU% we see its enough to keep up with ATI in CPU bottlenecked games and resolutions, so it shouldn't be any major concern. Use the extra overhead for AA, and enjoy better IQ at the same performance, problem solved. Btw, what is your suggestion now for all the people with slow Core 2 and PhII systems with low FPS and low GPU% that you insisted were caused by a driver/GPU problem?
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Robs03gts
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Re:Possible stutter workaround for BF BC2 with 4xx cards..
2010/08/14 11:19:03
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chizow
Yep its clearly not as fast as you think it is And neither is it slow as you are so***EDITED BY AB***claiming it to be. chizow
and certainly not fast enough to eliminate any CPU bottlenecks as you've insisted numerous times. Nope, never claimed it would remove every single bottleneck. What I did say was unless your running an unusual low resolution without AA and AF you will never see the difference. However anyone with a half a brain will tell you that a Q9550@4.3ghz paired up with a Single GTX 480 while gaming at resolution of 1920X1200 with AA and AF isnt going to be bottlenecking anything. Is the Corei7 faster? well yes it is and if your into encoding you will notice the difference right away. However the case isnt the same for gaming at high resolutions with AA and AF. Any current Core 2 Quad at 3.8ghz or higher is plenty enough to properly feed a single GTX 480. You act as though the GTX 480 is some super duper power house nuclear video card that needs a core i7 clocked to 7ghz just to extract the mighty power of the fermi. ***EDITED BY AB***
post edited by Afterburner - 2010/08/15 00:04:56
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