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PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?!

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kcuestag
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/15 11:19:11 (permalink)
Alright I was able to do some tests with both PCIe 3.0 and 2.0 thanks to a friend which has X79 and did the "hack" to enable PCIe 3.0.
 
Going from PCIe 2.0 8x-8x on SLI to 16x-16x 2.0 I improved ~4% performance.
 
However, going from PCIe 2.0 16x-16x to PCIe 3.0 the improvements were none, 0%.
 
So to those worried if PCIe 2.0 will bottleneck 2x GTX680's, no it won't, at most it will bottleneck about ~4% at 2560x1440 and ~3.2% at 1920x1080 if you're running both at 8x-8x, which is nothing really. Then at 16x-16x all bottleneck goes away and it performs the SAME as PCIe 3.0.
 
I'm quite happy with these tests, I was running my cards at PCIe 2.0 16x-8x and I didn't know until yesterday. Then I changed to 16x-16x, no longer want a new board ehehe.
 
Conclusion:
 
You won't need PCIe 3.0 at all unless you run 3 or 4 GTX680's and huge resolutions of multi monitor. At 2560x1600 or below and 2 GTX680's or less, PCIe 2.0 at 16x-16x on both cards will not bottleneck them AT ALL.
 
Enjoy! 

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Quagmire LXIX
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/15 12:14:18 (permalink)
kcuestag

Alright I was able to do some tests with both PCIe 3.0 and 2.0 thanks to a friend which has X79 and did the "hack" to enable PCIe 3.0?

Going from PCIe 2.0 8x-8x on SLI to 16x-16x 2.0 I improved ~4% performance.

However, going from PCIe 2.0 16x-16x to PCIe 3.0 the improvements were none, 0%.


 
~4% is what I showed PCIe 2.0 x8/x8 vs x16/x16
 
So let me get your testing methodology straight:
 
1) All testing (PCIe 2.0 x8/x8, x16/x16 and PCIe 3.0 ???) was done on the same X79 mobo with all the same system clocks.
2) What were the lane speeds tested at PCIe 3.0  (x8/x8 and/or x16/x16)?
 
Thanks


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kcuestag
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/15 12:22:27 (permalink)
Tests were done on my friend's 3960X @ 5GHz (HT OFF) with the same motherboard, a Gigabyte UD7 if I remember right.
 
As far as I know PCIe 3.0 were both at x16/x16. So yeah, you are about right, ~4% difference on PCIe 2.0 from 8x-8x to 16x-16x, but then PCIe 2.0 16x-16x to PCIe 3.0 16x-16x the differences were none.
 
Of course this is only with 2 cards and at 1920x1080 AND 2560x1440. Like callsignvega said, pcie 3.0 might not be useful at all for 2 cards and single monitor, but for 3 monitors and 3-4 GTX680's it is quite useful.
 
So as long as you have 2 or less GTX680's and play at 2560x1600 or below, and have 16x-16x PCIe 2.0, you have nothing to worry about. 
 
Must say I am very happy to see I don't need PCIe 3.0. 

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#63
kcuestag
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/15 13:00:45 (permalink)
I forgot to give a big thanks to callsignvega, without him I would probably never got my cards to 16x-16x and kept them on 16x-8x without knowing it. 
 
Thank you mate. 

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tarantadu
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/16 07:29:54 (permalink)
This maybe off topic but I've been wondering, does anyone know if a PCIE x1 sound card would affect PCIE bandwith? 
 
I have an Asrock Z68 Extreme7 Gen 3 and the PCIE bandwidth configuration is:
 
2-way SLI at PCIE 2.0 x16/x16  (slots 1 and 4)
3-way SLI at PCIE 2.0 x16/x8/x8 (slots 1, 4 and 6)
 
My second GTX 680 is on the way and will soon populate slot 4. I would like to know if a PCIE x1 sound card populating slot 6 would drop slot 4's bandwidth from x16 to x8.
 
Sorry if this questions has been asked and answered before, but i've been searching for answers through google search.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
 

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kcuestag
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/16 07:36:24 (permalink)
tarantadu

This maybe off topic but I've been wondering, does anyone know if a PCIE x1 sound card would affect PCIE bandwith? 

I have an Asrock Z68 Extreme7 Gen 3 and the PCIE bandwidth configuration is:

2-way SLI at PCIE 2.0 x16/x16  (slots 1 and 4)
3-way SLI at PCIE 2.0 x16/x8/x8 (slots 1, 4 and 6)

My second GTX 680 is on the way and will soon populate slot 4. I would like to know if a PCIE x1 sound card populating slot 6 would drop slot 4's bandwidth from x16 to x8.

Sorry if this questions has been asked and answered before, but i've been searching for answers through google search.

Thanks in advance.



I had this very same issue and it made my cards run at 16x-8x.
 
If the sound card is connected to a PCIe lane (Where GPU's go), it will affect it and drop the PCIe lane speeds. However, if you connect it to a PCI x1 like I did now, your cards will run at 16x-16x. 
 
So you should connect it like this:
 

    Graphic Card 1 - Sound Card - Graphic Card 2

That way your cards will definitely have enough space to breath fresh air and the sound  card will be on the PCI x1 slot, and your cards won't be affected. 
post edited by kcuestag - 2012/04/16 07:38:57

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#66
tarantadu
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/16 08:07:42 (permalink)
Oh wow thanks for the detailed response kceustag. My questions is finally answered after trying to search for an answer for almost 3 months.
 +rep
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Ravenmaster
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/16 08:34:20 (permalink)
I didn't think Sandy Bridge-E processors had hardware support for PCI-E 3.0. Thought only Ivy Bridge truly have it.

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#68
marcusarillius
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/16 11:41:33 (permalink)
Was considering changing to ivybridge but was reading up on some tests that were done and it runs REALLY hot.
Read that it was hitting 60 @ stock under water, so that doesn't sound too good.
 
Might just go with my sandy and forget the 4% loss I will have due to pci-e 2.0 and 8x/8x

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#69
Johnny_Utah
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/16 12:01:09 (permalink)
Ravenmaster

I didn't think Sandy Bridge-E processors had hardware support for PCI-E 3.0. Thought only Ivy Bridge truly have it.

 
SB-E fully support PCE-3.0.





 
 
#70
bolts4brekfast
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/16 12:07:25 (permalink)
 
post edited by bolts4brekfast - 2012/04/16 12:10:10
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callsignvega
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/04/16 22:56:16 (permalink)
Those small of resolutions have nothing to do with the results in this thread. 

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BarryBGB
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/05/03 19:15:26 (permalink)
Callsignvega,
 
I am interested in this but I cannot get both my 680's in 3.0.
I have them in SLI, but only the first one shows 3.0 and the second one shows 2.0.
I am running 301.10 right now.
 
What may I be doing wrong. I added the key rmpcielinkspeed and set it to 4, rebooted as per that japanese site. A little to understand though.
 
 

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#73
callsignvega
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/05/03 19:46:10 (permalink)
You have to disable SLI, then go into registry and change each video cards VID to 3.0, then re-enable SLI and reboot. ;)

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#74
BarryBGB
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/05/04 03:30:44 (permalink)
callsignvega

You have to disable SLI, then go into registry and change each video cards VID to 3.0, then re-enable SLI and reboot. ;)


Thanks, that sounds like a simple enough solution. I wonder why I never thought of it.
 
I will give it a try when I get home tonight.
 
BTW, none of your images displays in the beginning of this post. It just shows "photobucket"
Would like to see your numbers.
 

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#75
athletex2
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/05/04 05:26:02 (permalink)
Regardless of whether it is needed, we all want PCIe 3.0.  Mobo makers and nvidia advertised this feature and telling people that you won't really be able to take advantage of it is not an excuse.
 
edit:  To clarify, I don't expect nvidia to warranty it, but I expect the option to enable PCIe 3.0 if I assume the risk and choose to do so.
post edited by athletex2 - 2012/05/04 05:28:11

  
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Mogui
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/05/04 10:13:19 (permalink)
Seems like all the ppl posting against this aren't running much for screen size compared to Vega. Anyone else w/ at least 3 monitors try this? I'm really curious to the results as i just upgraded to 7680x1440 and i need to upgrade to run everything. I'm not sure if im going to be able to run this setup w/ 2x GTX680 4gb (or 2x GK110 when they're out), but I've only found two Z77 mb that will run x16/x16 and stil have an accessible pcie x1 slot for my sound card.
 
If however there isnt much difference in this setup w/ x16/x16 and x16/x8 or x8/x8, then the mb options open up a lot more. If no-one else has a chance to do a test on this before i upgrade i suppose i will just have to post my own results. Still waiting on parts to become available tho :(
#77
andest2003
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/07/04 04:24:37 (permalink)

 
 
 
 
 
post edited by andest2003 - 2012/07/04 04:27:26
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andest2003
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/07/04 04:26:07 (permalink)
my setup
 
3 x 27" dell monitors i run at 6000 x 1200 res
Asus rampage extreme iv ek full board water block
1500wat evermax
rip jaw 16gb mem
3930k @ 4.6gig
3 x evga gtx 680 2gb ek water blocks with back plates
various hard drives plus solid state drive
2 cooling loops one for cpu and board and 1 for gpus
 
my problem is as follows
running 3 cards is ace very happy with results however i have a forth card i would love to install annd get running well its a gigabyte gtx680 2gb now
 
when i install the forth card many games i enjoy playing end up with graphics glitching.examples below
 
need for speed the run graphics glitching mostly on left hand side screen
 
need for speed hot pursuit graphics tearing glitching all screens
 
is it that they just dont like quad sli?
battlefield bad company seems to run slower than tri sli
 
saints row 3rd runs very very slow
 
examples of games that run fine
battlefield 3
latest max payne
 
at the mo i feel like giving up and just selling the 4th card but thought i would give one last try on here.
 
also i dont belive any cards have any faults
 
 
 
 
 
#79
dan_o_00
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/07/04 07:14:59 (permalink)
Wow impressive.  At the same time this gives me peace of mind.  I just upgraded from a 470 to a 670 FTW and still running an i7 930 with PCI-E 2.  I'd love to upgrade to Ivy but at the same time want to wait until the next gen of Intels.  I'm only running a single card since this motherboard, although says it's possible, isn't that great with SLI.  The second card would be like directly on top of the power supply.
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Jac70
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/07/04 08:22:28 (permalink)
marcusarillius

Was considering changing to ivybridge but was reading up on some tests that were done and it runs REALLY hot.
Read that it was hitting 60 @ stock under water, so that doesn't sound too good.

Might just go with my sandy and forget the 4% loss I will have due to pci-e 2.0 and 8x/8x

 
I think you've had some misinformation there.
 
IVB chips run cooler than SB chips at stock. However, because the cores are more densely packed on the DIE they heat up faster under over-voltages and overclock speeds. For example the 2770K can routinely hit 5+GHZ on air coolers whereas a typical 3770K will usually only get to around 4.8GHZ and you'll need a very good air cooler to keep it within limits.
 
So the IVB and SB are very close in performance when clocked. The only real benefits for IVB are the reduced heat/power at stock, PCIe 3.0 and Intel HD 4000.
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Mac_vista64
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/07/08 12:41:15 (permalink)
New features for the PCIe 3.0 specification include a number of optimizations for enhanced signaling and data integrity, including transmitter and receiver equalization, PLL improvements, clock data recovery, and channel enhancements for currently supported topologies.[22]
...
PCIe 2.0 delivers 5 GT/s, but uses an 8b/10b encoding scheme that results in a 20 percent ((10-8)/10) overhead on the raw bit rate. PCIe 3.0 removes the requirement for 8b/10b encoding...
https://en.wikipedia.org/...xpress#PCI_Express_3.0
 

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Mac_vista64
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/07/10 11:14:01 (permalink)
PCIe Bandwidth, Overclocking, & The State Of Anti-Aliasing
Ultimately what is clear is that 8GB/sec of bandwidth, either in the form of PCIe 2 x16 or PCIe 3 x8, will be necessary to completely feed the 7970. 16GB/sec (PCIe 3 x16) appears to be overkill for a single card at this time, and 4GB/sec or 2GB/sec will bottleneck the 7970 depending on the game. The good news is that even at 2GB/sec the bottlenecking is rather limited, and based on our selection of benchmarks it looks like a handful of games will be bottlenecked. Still, there’s a good argument here that 7970CF owners are going to want a PCIe 3 system to avoid bottlenecking their cards – in fact this may be the greatest benefit of PCIe 3 right now, as it should provide enough bandwidth to make an x8/x8 configuration every bit as fast as an x16/x16 configuration, allowing for maximum GPU performance with Intel’s mainstream CPUs.

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#83
sbrown21
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/07/10 22:15:31 (permalink)
callsignvega

Well, the results of my PCI Express 2.0 versus 3.0 on my 4-way SLI GTX 680 FW900 Surround setup are in. The results are so incredible I had to start the tests over from scratch and run them multiple times for confirmation! :eek:
Test setup: 
3960X @ 5.0 GHz (temp slow speed)Asus Rampage IV Extreme with PCI-E slots running 16x/8x/8x/8x(4) EVGA GTX 680's running 1191MHz core, 3402 MHz MemorynVidia Driver 301.10 with PCI-E 3.0 registry adjustment turned on and off for each applicable tesGPU-Z  0.6.0


After PCI-E settings changed, confirmed with GPU-Z:



All settings in nVidia control panel, in-game and in benchmark, EVGA precision are all UNTOUCHED between benchmark runs. The only setting adjusted is the PCI-E 2.0 to 3.0 and back and forth for confirmation (Reboots obviously for registry edit).



I kid you not, that is how much PCI-E 2.0 running at 16x/8x/8x/8x versus PCI-E 3.0 bottlenecks BF3 and Heaven 2.5 at these resolutions. I attribute this to the massive bandwidth being transferred over the PCI-E bus. We are talking 4-way SLI at up to 10-megapixels in alternate frame rendering. Entire frames at high FPS are being swapped and PCI-E 2.0 falls on it's face. 
The interesting part was that while running PCI-E 2.0, the GPU utilization dropped way down as would be typically seen if you are "CPU" limited. In this instance I am not CPU limited, nor GPU limited. We are really at a point now that you can be PCI-E limited unless you go PCI-E 3.0 8x (16x PCI-E 2.0) or faster on all GPU's in the system.  GPU utilization dropped down into the ~50% range due to PCI-E 2.0 choking them to death. As soon as I enabled PCI-E 3.0, the GPU utilization skyrocketed to 95+% on all cores. I was going to run more benchmarks and games but the results are such blow-outs it seems pretty pointless to do any more. It may interest some of those out there running these new PCI-E 3.0 GPU's in which they think they are CPU limited (below 95% GPU utilization) yet might have PCI-E bandwidth issues. 
Down to the nitty gritty; if you run a single GPU, yes; a single 16x speed PCI-E 2.0 slot will be fine. When you start to run multiple GPU's and/or run these new cards at 8x speed, especially in Surround/Eyefinity, make sure to get PCI-E 3.0. ;)

More on my system: http://www.overclock.net/...-computer-edition-2012


That is some performance between pic-e 2.0 and 3.0 wow

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#84
Talhagamer
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/07/11 05:50:57 (permalink)
People treat it bad when they themselves don't have mobos to use it xD 
#85
BasSchilperoord
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/07/11 05:58:12 (permalink)
PCI-E 3.0 only matters if you're running MULTI-GPU configurations, right?

RIG >
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#86
theseeker
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2012/07/26 07:28:37 (permalink)
Great work Vega!

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#87
gutcheck
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2013/03/07 20:37:23 (permalink)
I am showing anywhere from a 15-60% performance increase with PCIe3.0 with two titans.  This is big news guys.  I am convinced nvidia is sitting there waiting to make a driver that "speeds up" the 600 and titan series cards dramatically by turning on PCIe 3.0 in a driver update.  It's sick isn't it?  They are intentionally gimping the cards because they can.  Even at 2.0 they compete with AMD.  Watch, it will happen.

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#88
gutcheck
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2013/03/07 20:38:48 (permalink)
And I just realized I resurrected a thread that is very old.... but the news needs to be spread!

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#89
Baltothewolf
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Re:PCI-E 2.0 vs PCI-E 3.0 BATTLE ROYAL!!?! 2013/03/07 21:10:05 (permalink)
Dw about it gutcheck, this thread gets linked all the time. I actually got linked this thread myself a few days ago when I was arguing about pci-e 2.0 and 3.0. The guy was wrong because at 1080p there is no bottleneck on a single gpu, but yea.

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#90
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