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Helpful ReplyOne ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! *UPDATED*

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nateman_doo
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2015/07/11 11:56:21 (permalink)
*UPDATE*
Success met at making Damascus Steel.  TONS of pics throughout the thread. 

 Original post follows:
 
 
 
So after my first attempt at knife making I thought I would take things up a notch, and by taking up a notch I mean going completely overboard and learn a new skill to add to the tool kit that is ME.  
 
I starting watching lots of videos on how to make knives and one particular thing caught my eye... pattern welded steel.  Its "otherwise known" as damascus, or how japanese swords are made.  They are made by folding different layers of steels together and getting them to blend.  Every time you fold it over the layer count doubles.  I thought I would do something nice for my wife and go easily into forging by making her a ring.  (in hindsite a knife would have been easier to start off with).  In any case here is where we start...
 
First I needed to learn fire.  Here is where I had to learn if I could make a propane torch.  It is the heart of the forge.  here is my testing various burner methods:


 
So once we determined that we got that done correctly we needed an actual forge.  After watching the various ways to make a forge, i found myself particularly inspired by how easy it is to make one by watching this video.  Then I had to scale it up a bit as I usually do.
 
A visit to the scrap metal yard (think kid in a candy store) and i found some 12"ID sewer pipe.  

 
Next thing I had to do was build a cart for the forge to wheel around on:
 
ALL welded steel with a fire brick shelf.
 
Always being safe with my fan club:

 
Now we have to get the fire into the forge, and that was done with my extended drill press.  Yea I pimped it out, but I used a simple hole saw on a VERY slow setting with LOTS of oil.

 
 Then welded a section of pipe on:

 
 Now comes the fun part of lining the forge:


Here its lined with ceramic insulation and fire brick for a solid floor
 
Now we coat the interior with a specific cement:

Done.
 
Now we need a back:

Yup.  A simple aluminum pot.
 
line the pan with 2 layers of insulation and mount it:

 
Make one for the front, paint it, and mount it to the cart and we now have a working forge!





 
Now its time to fire up the forge and see how it holds up:


Seems to work ok to me.
 
Now comes material selection:

That is S7 tools steel, 4140 steel, and O1 tool steel in the layers shown.
 
Oh wait... before I forget  how are we going to make anything without a work surface that can handle hot metal?  Drove around the block to a recently cut downed tree:

 
I took 2 sections that seemed contiguous and attempted to put them back together:



Wood glue and 10" lag screws.  Btw, tree stumps are HEEAAVVYYYY.
 
Now weld the stack together and try it:



 
First stack failed so I thought I should just try smaller:

 
Much better luck:


 
Then the stack is folded repeatedly:


 
and beat back together and ends up looking like this:

(after the first few folds and twists)
 
A quick acid etch and you get this:


(at this point its already weeks of work)
 
So then after more days of hammering and drawing out the material I got this:



 
Then came QUITE a bit of grinding out all the garbage, and trying to make my first forged part looking semi-decent.  So after the sanding and polishing comes another acid etch:


 
A final polish and here is what it looks like (with various lighting:




 
Hope you like it.  
 
I have a few more billets being worked on with similar success:



 
 
post edited by nateman_doo - 2015/09/16 10:25:26
#1
ManBearPig
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 12:19:50 (permalink)
Awesome man


 
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 12:24:16 (permalink)
NATE!  This is awesome!  Well done and these are the reasons I like getting to be a nerd that lingers on these forums.  your work is amazing.. now.. how do we request these personalized knives and rings :-)  
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nateman_doo
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 12:44:21 (permalink)
Thanks!  Glad you like it!  I am sure I could be persuaded ;) 
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 13:06:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby nateman_doo 2015/07/11 20:28:18
You are a candidate for replacing the Dos Equis guy as the most interesting man in the world. That is absolutely amazing.

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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 15:20:41 (permalink)
I saw this video a while back and thought you would think its pretty cool. Then saw this thread and now i have to link it. 
 

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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 15:44:23 (permalink)
So, how hot did the ceramic bricks get, and how many did you got through? Thats, are they ceramic?
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 16:20:42 (permalink)
Nice job Nate (as per usual)  The grain in the metal has a very cool effect ... I too want in on the customized rings please   I'm beginning to think if you had enough steel wool you could knit a truck , you are truly a man of many talents

 
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 19:23:48 (permalink)
Taking it to a whole new level. You sir are truly skilled and amazing!


  


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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 20:45:59 (permalink)
Very impressive.

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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 20:49:15 (permalink)
kaninja
You are a candidate for replacing the Dos Equis guy as the most interesting man in the world. That is absolutely amazing.

Probably the coolest (and quotable) things anyone has ever said.  Thank you.
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 20:58:05 (permalink)
knightsilver
So, how hot did the ceramic bricks get, and how many did you got through? Thats, are they ceramic?

Nope, regular fire brick from Lowes.  
 
Violence.
I saw this video a while back and thought you would think its pretty cool. Then saw this thread and now i have to link it. 
 



AWESOME!!!
 
and thank you all for the complements.  defiantly wasn't easy, but wasn't really hard looking back.  Any new skill takes some getting used to.  This is one of them.  The next few billets should look a bit more interesting.
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 22:02:51 (permalink)
10/10 Would pay money to buy the one ring to rule them all from you. (No seriously give me a price and I'll buy one from you if you engrave it with the elvish).

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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 22:10:15 (permalink)
Takes me back, when I work at a fab stock/horse trailers. I got to work almost every job position, leaned so much being hands on, can't learn n everything from a textbook.
Pretty much went from the woodshop, metal fab, some welding, electrical wiring, back to woodshop. Even got to play on a tig welder, and fun a
12' x 250 Ton Hydraulic brake press(s). "you know, the ones that would take your arm off if you were being stupid"

It's sad, they don't teach shop classes any more. Just awesome Nate, love seeing things hand made, just don't see it much anymore.


Edit, did you mud the endcaps(your kitchen pans there)?
post edited by knightsilver - 2015/07/11 22:23:17
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 23:51:02 (permalink)
knightsilver
Takes me back, when I work at a fab stock/horse trailers. I got to work almost every job position, leaned so much being hands on, can't learn n everything from a textbook.
Pretty much went from the woodshop, metal fab, some welding, electrical wiring, back to woodshop. Even got to play on a tig welder, and fun a
12' x 250 Ton Hydraulic brake press(s). "you know, the ones that would take your arm off if you were being stupid"

It's sad, they don't teach shop classes any more. Just awesome Nate, love seeing things hand made, just don't see it much anymore.


Edit, did you mud the endcaps(your kitchen pans there)?



My buddy has a TIG, he said he will give me lessons soon on welding aluminum, magnesium and some other stuff :o~!

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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/11 23:57:29 (permalink)
Wow, Very nice nate.
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 05:53:33 (permalink)
What's was the oven temp Nate?
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 06:03:28 (permalink)
Swords by Nateman?  hmmmmmm
 
Awesome job, and a very interesting hobby for sure 
 
How many microseconds does it take to cook a pizza?

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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 06:07:43 (permalink)
Your skills never cease to amaze me Nate.

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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 08:10:21 (permalink)
Baltothewolf
10/10 Would pay money to buy the one ring to rule them all from you. (No seriously give me a price and I'll buy one from you if you engrave it with the elvish).


i think that may be a bit off, considering I dont speak elvish  :P 
 
knightsilver
What's was the oven temp Nate?

Im honestly not too sure.  I was looking for a temp gauge that doesn't liquefy.  I could melt thermal probes in there, so it has to be a pyrometer and its an eventual upgrade.
 
Pgcmoore
Swords by Nateman?  hmmmmmm
 
Awesome job, and a very interesting hobby for sure 
 
How many microseconds does it take to cook a pizza?




I think i want to try a pizza slice before I re-line the forge.. just because.  I dont think I could make swords yet, but knives could be on the horizon.  I am still busy with my CNC but this kind of stuff I can do while the machine runs.  Plus its a MUCH slower process then CNC'ing.
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 09:18:08 (permalink)
knightsilver

It's sad, they don't teach shop classes any more. Just awesome Nate, love seeing things hand made, just don't see it much anymore.


Edit, did you mud the endcaps(your kitchen pans there)?



Hand made stuff is all over the place on youtube.  Its like a video Encyclopedia.  and yes I put the mud on it.  I was apprehensive originally because it IS aluminum, but you can actually touch the forge for a long time.  It stays cool on the outside but eventually it does get warm.
 
For making small projects my forge is too big.  I had to make it smaller by decreasing the internal volume, and adding stuff like bricks, and a small wall so the flames never even see that side of the forge.  
 
I made it over 2 feet long just to give me the room for longer projects, but so far its WAY bigger then it needs to be.  You want a small space so it heats up faster.  Open area's take larger to heat up, as those of you with large houses and huge heating bills know ;) 
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 09:31:05 (permalink)
This is how the process is made for the Japanese swords:
 
 
 
One of the coolest videos out there.
 
There seem to be 2 differences between how these masters do it, and how I did it.  1, I had zero experience and 2, material selection.  They can just eyeball the portions of steel and know which is the best, and they can even eyeball the color of the hot metal to know the right temps.  I hate to dumb things down but the process is essentially the same.  Take different pieces of metal and squash them together under heat.  After having tried the process I can say I have a tremendous respect for those who can do this.  
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 10:18:10 (permalink)
Nate man I have kind of a personal request, I'll send you a PM

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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 11:10:38 (permalink)
Never been much of a sword person, always wanted to learn though. Now, about those custom set of kitchen knives? :)

Now, if I could get custom alloy Bow staff or a set of Escrima Sticks !
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 15:10:13 (permalink)

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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 16:49:09 (permalink)
Always being safe with my fan club:

You made my coffee come right out of my nose with this...  All laughing aside, really nice work.

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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/12 19:48:50 (permalink)
Edit
post edited by knightsilver - 2015/07/12 20:28:42
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/14 11:27:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby nateman_doo 2015/07/15 04:51:25
I second the motion that nateman_doo is the new Most Interesting Man in the Word.  Dang, sir!  You have wild hobbies!
 
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/15 04:53:54 (permalink)
duly appreciated!  Wild?  I wouldn't say wild... I just for some reason have a fascination with all things metal.  perhaps my next trick will be pulling it out of the ground?  Thats another facet I find interesting.  I think those people would be one of the most valuable people on earth at the end of the world.  (aside from doctors, farmers etc).  But by then there will be PLENTY of metal lying around to re-forge into what you need.  
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Re: One ring to rule them all; My adventure into FORGING! (bandwidth warning) 2015/07/20 06:12:51 (permalink)
I picked up a Harbor Freight 20 ton shop press and pimped it out.  For anyone who owns one, this really isn't a bad mod considering how cheaply made they are (In fact I would strongly encourage it - but you might need some special tools like a welder and steel cutting methods):
 

 

 

 

 

 
Now I am making dies to do specific tasks.  For example this one:

This is a flattening die.  It is used to flatten out a piece of hot steel.  Others being made to draw out, square, and even round out.  The scrap metal place is my friend.
 
Here is a youtube video of it in action.  DESTROYING a 2x4, and in the worst possible case, and off-center load.  normally you put everything centered, but I purposefully set the load off to the side to show how much more sturdy the press is now that I fashioned this little mod:
 
 
 
Note, this would have taken me about 10 seconds since I replaced the factory bottle jack, for the air over hydraulic jack, but the kids were sleeping in the car we just came back from dinner (and it was a nice 70°) so they crashed on the way back and I let them sleep while I bolted it on, and welded it together.  My oldest eventually woke up and wanted to help.  Sadly there wasn't much she could do.
 
Stay tuned, I will update this as i try out another method and post more pics/videos.  I know its ugly but I am not a welder.  I dont even use the gas, it has the flux with it, so try not to go off on my because my welds look awful.  Its a function over form kind of thing for me.
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