Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/12 21:39:18
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3 or 4 way it's double the lanes/wires - so double the bandwidth What galls me that they can't double the communication speed or boost it and put on a better connector - ie Sli 2.0 Nvidia has had time to conceive of an upgrade and handle signal processing to handle more bandwidth in the card...but can't handle a bit more on the Sli bridge
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2016/05/12 21:41:53
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/12 21:48:49
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If your assumption that using 3 or 4 way simply doubles the wires and in turn doubles the bandwidth, then using 2 single bridges would have done the same thing. Sadly, that assumption is wrong as it didn't and doesn't double anything.
It has been stated that the HB bridge won't work with older cards, so best guess is the wiring has changed to actually double the bandwidth, and since it is currently only compatible with the 1080, I wonder if it has something to do with G5X (the nicely shortened name for GDDR5X).
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/12 22:02:35
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actually there would be a few set lines locked to 5v or gnd (instead of normal signal - on the bridge)to indicate HB bridge - so the software/drivers can kick in and change the bridge config on the card from standard to HB
you might also use a few lines to help signal processing too
as a engineer and computer scientist id know quite a bit about this
i used to design hardware and VLSI chips - and wrote drivers for Nvidia cards
but my analysis would be correct - most of the bandwidth comes from doubling the lines
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/12 22:12:11
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Then why doesn't it kick in with the old Bridge? If the 1080 can't use the old Bridge and the lines are run the same, that would denote. Ore than just simple lines, would it not?
Personally, I know for a fact they aren't going to give out wiring schematics all that easy, but I would like to see the change.
Your original statement says three or four way is double the lines, so double the bandwidth. When using a 3 or 4 way that would increase the throughput compared to a single finger being used, correct? No.. It didn't. Using both fingers in 2 way didn't increase any performance.
Or, am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say? Obviously there are greater changes to the new bridge, or it would be backward compatible.
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 00:09:37
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Standard Sli  thats 1-1 pin all going to same pin numbers 2-2 and so on and it doesn't matter if you install the bridge in the front or back sli in 2 way now saying that - some are data - some are hardware signal lines - ack/nack/control lines you need 8 or 16 for data - that would leave 8pins for other uses - power gnd and control/flow we know one is used for lighting a sli bridge ie 5v otherwise lit bridge would change with activity process lines could indicate send /receive data - or indicate data or address location you could have 8 data and 8 address - but im assuming you use a control lines to specific data/address and use 16bits for both since i don't know all the particular pinouts it's moot in 3 way you have double bandwidth but 3 cards  assume a hookup like this 1-------->2------>3 - and use 2 pins to indicate what card data sent to or address or command 1<--------2<------3 that goes for both directions or option 2 you use a control line to indicate flow and do only one flow direction - and flip when you want to do data/info the other way 4 way  however comes the problem with control.... sli works master and slave and slavemaster 2 and slave 3 where slave2 is master over slave 3 and master can control slave 2 so i bridge used for control down to double bandwidth/ 4 - control overhead look at this from bandwidth perspective using 1 bridge for 2 cards - normal if it was possible using 1 bridge for 3 - 1/2 bandwidth...... for 4 cards - 1/4 bandwidth using 2 bridges for 2 cards - double bandwidth - for 3 cards double/3 - overhead (close to normal bandwidth).... for 4 cards double/4 - overhead less than normal bandwidth and why Sli has problems scaling you lose bandwidth as you add cards the HB bridge would not need the extra control lines - this you can hang one high ie 5v and one low(gnd) to indicate to the cards and drivers a hb bridge on the other cards the bridge would hang/fail the SLI if you use regular bridges on 1080 would work normally
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2016/05/13 00:16:46
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Goobers
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 04:53:14
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@Xavier Zepherious
3-way doesn't work that way. As you can actually use three 2-way SLI bridges (at least one has to be flexible!)
Card 1, FINGER 1 goes to C2-F1
C2-F2 -> C3-F1 (or F2)
C1-F2 -> C3-F2 (or F1, if F2 was already used)
Think of it as "Round Robin."
4-way SLI... is NOT round robin like 3-way... but instead a "2-way-2-way SLI."
Card 1 <-> 2 get a 2-way bridge
Card 3 <-> 4 get a 2-way bridge
pair 1+2 <-> pair 3+4 gets the third 2-way bridge (either 1 to 3 or 2 to 4).
~~~~~
As for this whole thing about master and slave... it's actually set in software.
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cursed_prophet2012
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 04:56:49
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omg guys im just so hoping for 3 and 4 way sli configs on these crazy cards, ok so im on live chat with geforce live assist
im asking the big question straight up lol gimme a minute peeps im gonna have to hussle this guy for the info lol
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cursed_prophet2012
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 05:11:14
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sorry guys i tired lol 
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 05:14:22
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You'll probably get the same answer as everyone else, lol. *you posted while I was reading through the thread* You only spent 10 minutes trying. I guarantee many other people have spent way more time trying and got the same information. People need to just wait. It's not that far away and the review sites will be able to spill their guts.
post edited by Scarlet-Tech - 2016/05/13 05:18:12
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ragevirusqq
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 09:46:35
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ragevirusqq
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 10:16:10
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This happens every time there is a generation release. Its so much fun. I am happy to wait and see the real benchies!! :)
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DustoMan
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 10:37:13
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Guys. There's no reason to harass EVGA over this. I'm sure they are going to let everyone know all the dirty details when they can based on the NDAs they had to sign from Nvidia. The card isn't even for sale until the end of the month, so knowing now versus a week before release isn't going to change anything.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 10:44:13
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Originally Posted by Hilbert Hagedoorn  Nvidia does indeed stop supporting 3 and 4-way SLI for Pascal and newer products. But there actually will be a way to do 3 and 4 way SLI, I'll explain it in the upcoming 1080 article. http://forums.guru3d.com/...272651&postcount=5
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Sajin
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 10:54:48
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HeavyHemi
Originally Posted by Hilbert Hagedoorn
Nvidia does indeed stop supporting 3 and 4-way SLI for Pascal and newer products. But there actually will be a way to do 3 and 4 way SLI, I'll explain it in the upcoming 1080 article.
http://forums.guru3d.com/...272651&postcount=5
What's the point in hacking it to work when it won't be optimized?
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 11:08:44
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Sajin
HeavyHemi
Originally Posted by Hilbert Hagedoorn
Nvidia does indeed stop supporting 3 and 4-way SLI for Pascal and newer products. But there actually will be a way to do 3 and 4 way SLI, I'll explain it in the upcoming 1080 article.
http://forums.guru3d.com/...272651&postcount=5
What's the point in hacking it to work when it won't be optimized?
The same argument with the *officially* unsupported SLI configs for the 700 and 900 series. Or people who use Nvidia Inspector to force AA and HBAO techniques not *officially* supported. Whats the point in doing anything that isn't officially supported? Those kooky enthusiasts! There ought to be a law...  Anyhow, it appears it is possible just not *officially* supported.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 11:14:29
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Goobers
@Xavier Zepherious
3-way doesn't work that way. As you can actually use three 2-way SLI bridges (at least one has to be flexible!)
Card 1, FINGER 1 goes to C2-F1
C2-F2 -> C3-F1 (or F2)
C1-F2 -> C3-F2 (or F1, if F2 was already used)
Think of it as "Round Robin."
4-way SLI... is NOT round robin like 3-way... but instead a "2-way-2-way SLI."
Card 1 <-> 2 get a 2-way bridge
Card 3 <-> 4 get a 2-way bridge
pair 1+2 <-> pair 3+4 gets the third 2-way bridge (either 1 to 3 or 2 to 4).
~~~~~
As for this whole thing about master and slave... it's actually set in software.
Ah...the old *flexible* 3-way bridge routine.... I sense a come back... 
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Sajin
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stalinx20
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 12:24:43
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CoercionShaman
stalinx20
This does make complete sense for them to do this. The market value for people going 3x 4x SLI was not way up there. More coding, more SLI support means more money they pay their engineers. So, cut that back, and more money for the wise guys. Yep... Jen Hsun coming home with a fatter check and paying engineers less money. lmao...
That's often the hard part. You have to remember that this is a business and it is costly. Putting on the game developers where it should be has never worked out, either.
Sajin is a very intelligent individual along with many others here. They get this, they just don't like it. It is difficult when your area of use is 'attacked'. In this scenario, there is no chance of it working itself through because they have now made it physically impossible with physics of the card and HB bridge. We have to wait and see what they do with the higher end Pascal.
I wasn't really "attacking" anybody. Was only speculating that it makes sense to me they would cut back on going with 3x or 4x SLI. There is just not a lot of profit from the public to continue providing the feature(s). Their numbers probably showed a very small margin in sales with people going 3x or 4x SLI. For many people, it's not worth it. I personally wouldn't mind getting another 980 to go 3x, honestly... For argument sake, it might matter for benchmarking to get the numbers, but from a gaming world, it's all about how much each GPU is being used. Lower gpu usage is better. It was always the argument that 3x or 4x does not scale well. Of course it wont. Look at the GPU usage on the other hand, and you will see a huge difference. You don't want your GPUs overworking themselves.
post edited by stalinx20 - 2016/05/13 12:29:43
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CoercionShaman
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 12:40:43
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stalinx20
CoercionShaman
stalinx20
This does make complete sense for them to do this. The market value for people going 3x 4x SLI was not way up there. More coding, more SLI support means more money they pay their engineers. So, cut that back, and more money for the wise guys. Yep... Jen Hsun coming home with a fatter check and paying engineers less money. lmao...
That's often the hard part. You have to remember that this is a business and it is costly. Putting on the game developers where it should be has never worked out, either.
Sajin is a very intelligent individual along with many others here. They get this, they just don't like it. It is difficult when your area of use is 'attacked'. In this scenario, there is no chance of it working itself through because they have now made it physically impossible with physics of the card and HB bridge. We have to wait and see what they do with the higher end Pascal.
I wasn't really "attacking" anybody. Was only speculating that it makes sense to me they would cut back on going with 3x or 4x SLI. There is just not a lot of profit from the public to continue providing the feature(s). Their numbers probably showed a very small margin in sales with people going 3x or 4x SLI. For many people, it's not worth it. I personally wouldn't mind getting another 980 to go 3x, honestly...
For argument sake, it might matter for benchmarking to get the numbers, but from a gaming world, it's all about how much each GPU is being used. Lower gpu usage is better. It was always the argument that 3x or 4x does not scale well. Of course it wont. Look at the GPU usage on the other hand, and you will see a huge difference. You don't want your GPUs overworking themselves.
I meant Nvidia 'attacking' their usage by not supporting it or making it impossible, stalin. I did not mean you. Apologies for the misunderstanding.
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stalinx20
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 13:16:32
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CoercionShaman
stalinx20
CoercionShaman
stalinx20
This does make complete sense for them to do this. The market value for people going 3x 4x SLI was not way up there. More coding, more SLI support means more money they pay their engineers. So, cut that back, and more money for the wise guys. Yep... Jen Hsun coming home with a fatter check and paying engineers less money. lmao...
That's often the hard part. You have to remember that this is a business and it is costly. Putting on the game developers where it should be has never worked out, either.
Sajin is a very intelligent individual along with many others here. They get this, they just don't like it. It is difficult when your area of use is 'attacked'. In this scenario, there is no chance of it working itself through because they have now made it physically impossible with physics of the card and HB bridge. We have to wait and see what they do with the higher end Pascal.
I wasn't really "attacking" anybody. Was only speculating that it makes sense to me they would cut back on going with 3x or 4x SLI. There is just not a lot of profit from the public to continue providing the feature(s). Their numbers probably showed a very small margin in sales with people going 3x or 4x SLI. For many people, it's not worth it. I personally wouldn't mind getting another 980 to go 3x, honestly...
For argument sake, it might matter for benchmarking to get the numbers, but from a gaming world, it's all about how much each GPU is being used. Lower gpu usage is better. It was always the argument that 3x or 4x does not scale well. Of course it wont. Look at the GPU usage on the other hand, and you will see a huge difference. You don't want your GPUs overworking themselves.
I meant Nvidia 'attacking' their usage by not supporting it or making it impossible, stalin. I did not mean you. Apologies for the misunderstanding.
Sorry, my mistake.
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TheSadClown
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 16:05:10
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I still see the OP hasnt fixed his title.
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Sajin
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 16:16:13
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Johnny_Utah
I have returned after a 2 year hiatus to participate in a soon-to-be epic thread. This lack of 3/4 way SLI is disappointing. For what it's worth Sajin, I knew exactly what you meant when I read the title. I'm still rocking my 4 Titans on 7680x1440. I really enjoy the performance of one card/screen. Was looking forward to picking up 3 of these, but it looks like I will wait.
Oh and hey everyone:)
Welcome back. 
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 20:31:03
(permalink)
Sajin
HeavyHemi
Sajin
HeavyHemi
Originally Posted by Hilbert Hagedoorn
Nvidia does indeed stop supporting 3 and 4-way SLI for Pascal and newer products. But there actually will be a way to do 3 and 4 way SLI, I'll explain it in the upcoming 1080 article.
http://forums.guru3d.com/...272651&postcount=5
What's the point in hacking it to work when it won't be optimized?
The same argument with the *officially* unsupported SLI configs for the 700 and 900 series. Whats the point in doing anything that isn't officially supported? Those kooky enthusiasts! There ought to be a law...
Anyhow, it appears it is possible just not *officially* supported.
Yeah, it may be awesome to get it working, but if it isn't giving you any higher performance in game it's pointless.
Well of course, why state the obvious? If there is no performance gain, then by definition 'it ain't working' and would be pointless.
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Bruno747
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 21:07:30
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Xavier Zepherious
1080 supports 2,3 4 way SLi...the problem is that the HB bridge only works 2-way as of now - sacrificing any other card not getting any bandwidth - -
look at the bridge - a standard single sli bridge is 1/2 that size wide
HB bridge
Duh!! comes to mind here - - ie 4 way sli bridge.... in a 2 way config
makes for double bandwidth
that doesn't stop you from using a dedicated Physx or going double 2-way
if Nvidia was that concerned with bandwidth then make a NVlink connector for the cards or devise new SLI transit protocol..ie sli 2.0
Correct, essentially, they just made it two single ribbons, using both fingers at the same time between two cards for double the bandwidth. What saddens me is that they finally decide to make some updates to SLI capabilities, and instead of getting rid of the bridge all together like amd did with the 290x, they just limit the cards to two for "high bandwidth" and use both fingers at the same time for sli. Might give a boost to AMD if you can actually run 3 and 4 cards where the drivers are actually made for it and the 1080 is limited to two. Also, anyone find it humorous that there are screws missing in that picture?
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XrayMan
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/13 21:48:57
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TheSadClown
I still see the OP hasnt fixed his title.
He's actually changed it twice now. I think it's time to move on from that. It's old news now.
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cursed_prophet2012
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/14 02:32:50
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ragevirusqq
3 way and 4 way does work. listen to someone who knows first hand. Jaystwocents show from yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNvfX0QZbYU
can you please tell us at around what time of the video he mentions this ? its like a 90 mins video lol
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Johnny_Utah
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/14 10:15:55
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cursed_prophet2012
ragevirusqq
3 way and 4 way does work. listen to someone who knows first hand. Jaystwocents show from yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNvfX0QZbYU
can you please tell us at around what time of the video he mentions this ? its like a 90 mins video lol
Start at the 6:00 mark
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DAVE2HOT4U
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/14 11:17:59
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LINUS from the Wan show just said Nvidia emailed him and said more than 2 way is possible they would send him the code. Dont ask me what the code is because I dont know.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/14 11:29:26
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DAVE2HOT4U
LINUS from the Wan show just said Nvidia emailed him and said more than 2 way is possible they would send him the code. Dont ask me what the code is because I dont know.
Probably changing a setting using Nvidia Inspector
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DAVE2HOT4U
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Re: Nvidia only supports up to SLI on 10 series cards
2016/05/14 11:40:20
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HeavyHemi
DAVE2HOT4U
LINUS from the Wan show just said Nvidia emailed him and said more than 2 way is possible they would send him the code. Dont ask me what the code is because I dont know.
Probably changing a setting using Nvidia Inspector
Thats a new term for me where do you find that @ ?
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