Hot!My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance?

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walesisok
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2016/09/06 17:12:28 (permalink)
Completed setup of a new build and the EVGA 1080 Hybrid was the last component, but I think I was expecting too much of GPU water-cooling benefits especially to temps and noise.
 
My setup is
ASUS X99 Deluxe II MB
Intel 6900k @4Ghz OC'd via XMP 3200 memory profile.
CPU cooler is a Corsair H115i with 4x Noctua A14 PWM in push/pull intake at the front of the case.
The 1080 Hybrid fan has been replaced with 2x Corsair ML 120 Pros in push/pull exhausting at the rear of the case. These are rated 400-2400 rpm, 12-75 CFM and should easily out perform the single stock fan.
I also have a Noctua A15 PWM in the bottom of the case as an additional intake to maintain positive pressure inside the case and its speed is tied to the GPU temp.
I also have a Corsair HX1000i PSU and the fan doesn't spin up even under load.
 
I running Win 10 Pro, latest 372.70 drivers and OC X 6.0.5. I'm also using a single 4K monitor running at 3840 x 2160.
 
I don't have enough posts to attach screenshots, but here's the basics, this is with the GPU stock.
 
At idle with an ambient room temp of 25C
CPU cores 30C-31C with all RAD fans at 675 rpm
MB temps are 34C-39C
GPU 36C RAD fans both at 691 rpm and case intake fan at 680 RPM
 
Running Heaven benchmark for 20+ minutes
CPU cores 30C to 36C with all RAD fans at 691 rpm (only 2 cores show any real load)
MB temps are 35C-41C
GPU 56C-57C RAD fans both at 1331 rpm and case intake at 993 rpm
 
At the start my boost clock is 1974Mhz at 1.063V, dropping to 1962Mhz at 46C and then finally drops and stabilizes at 1936Mhz at 1.044V when it hits 56C.
 
I can see the CPU cooler is working really well, AIDA64 loads tests only push the CPU cores to the high 50's. The MB temps only rise a degree or two so I know I have adequate case airflow, but at 1300 rpm (60%) and above the ML 120's start to become noticeable in noise, I can get the GPU core as low as 46C but that requires running the ML120's at full 2400 rpm and at that speed it sounds ready for take off.
 
Does this look right? Given some of the reviews and other posts I've seen, I was expecting temps 5C to 10C lower given the Hybrid cooling and push/pull fans. I've also seen air-cooled 1080's peak reportedly in the 60C's with moderately aggressive fan profiles that run the on board fans at 65%-70% and those were overclocked above 2000Mhz too.
#1

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    Salem13
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/06 17:16:52 (permalink)
    I'll just toss in a reply for you to reply to and get more posts but...

    a resting GPU temp lower than the motherboard/ambient temp, swoon!
    #2
    walesisok
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/06 17:19:43 (permalink)
    I think you read that wrong :)
     
    Ambient is 25C
    Idle GPU is 36C
    #3
    Salem13
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/06 17:26:51 (permalink)
    D'oh
    #4
    walesisok
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/06 18:48:14 (permalink)
    So I just did another round of tests, this time I removed the 2 ML120's and reverted back to the stock fan controlled directly by the card and mounted as a push on the front of the radiator.
     
    Ambient room temp is still 25C
     
    Under load, running Heaven
    With stock fan set at 100% 2050 RPM GPU temp is 52C
    With stock fan set at 56% 1180 RPM (lowest setting in Precision) GPU temp is 52C 
     
    Idle is at 35C with either fan settings.
     
    At any speed the stock fan air noise is loud, it's lowest is comparable to the 2 ML120's at about 1600-1800 RPM (75%).
    #5
    trilegdog
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/06 18:58:26 (permalink)
    good improvement from 56 -57 at 1331 and it seems that a push/pull doesn't offer any advantage for your configuration

    Asus Formula VIII, i7-6700k, Tt Riing 360 AIO, 16GB Corsair Dom/Plat 3K,
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    lead, follow, or get out of the way
     
    #6
    walesisok
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/06 19:23:28 (permalink)
    Those corsairs are rated as high static pressure fans, so I should have seen a big improvement with them in push/pull, and shouldn't have to run them both at 100%/2400 rpm to get load temps around 46C.
     
    The fact the stock fan makes no difference at either 56% or 100% makes me think the rad or pump are limiting the cooling effect somehow, esp with the constant idle temp of 35C. 10C above ambient seems a little high as a starting point.
     
     
    #7
    jlp209
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/06 20:18:32 (permalink)
    Your temps are a little high. My Hybrid idles at 25-26C, ambient temp is 72F / 22C. Under load the hottest I've seen is 50-52 while benching, gaming usually 46-48. And this is with the stock fan. You should consider replacing the thermal paste and see if that helps. Or give EVGA a call to possibly RMA, as you shouldn't have to replace the thermal paste in the first place. 

    MB: Asus Z170 Sabertooth Mark 1
    CPU: i7 6700K @ 4.5ghz
    CPU Cooling: Noctua NH-U14S
    GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 FTW Hybrid
    RAM: Corsair LPX 16GB DDR4 3000
    Main / OS: Samsung 950 Pro 256GB m.2
    Games: Samsung 830 512GB SSD
    Storage: HGST 4TB HDD
    Monitor: Acer XB271HU 27" IPS 1440p 165Hz
    PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G2
    Case: Corsair 760T
    OS: Windows 10 Pro 

    #8
    walesisok
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/06 23:20:12 (permalink)
    I just re-watched the review by jayztwocents, in it he replaced the stock fan with two EK-Vardar F2-120 (1450rpm) fans running at 1200-1300 rpm and was able to get load temps of 42C all while overclocked to 2150Mhz.
     
    Comparing the Corsair ML's and EK fans, the ML's should easily compete and even outperform.
    Corsair ML-120         EL-Vardar
    400-2400 rpm          700-1450 rpm
    12-75 CFM               52 CFM max
    0.2-4.2 mmH2O       1.42 mmH2O
     
    Running the ML-120's at 1330 rpm I'm seeing temps 14C higher while on stock clocks. I've opened a ticket with EVGA support because something seems off here.
    #9
    ksgnow2010
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/07 07:40:50 (permalink)
    If you are reading the review and trying to compare to your system, then your system has to be the same case and air flow setup to be an apples to apples comparison.
     
    Just because it has a fan on a radiator does not mean that you don't need fresh case intake air and airflow.
     
    A few tips:
    (1) Idle temperatures do not mean anything.  Load temperature and ambient are a much better metric.  What you are looking for is the "delta T", or the difference between load temperature and the ambient temperature (i.e. the temperature of the air the case is bringing in).  In any sort of experiments you do, you should use the delta T as a figure of merit...lower is better.  Air type coolers take about 5 minutes to hit "soak" temperature.  Water type coolers take about 30 minutes to hit "soak" temperature.  They usually take about half that to cool down.
     
    ... You should check the review to make sure that they were not quoting delta T versus actual GPU temperature.  Many of the review sites are using delta T now for AIO performance...as actual GPU temperature is dependent upon ambient temperature.  If they are not quoting delta T, they will usually tell you that they have a controlled ambient of xx.x C or something like that.  You can compute delta T from that.
     
    (2) You are running your CPU cooler as intake.  So, you are bringing heated air into your GPU radiator.  As the CPU gets put under load, the heated air exhaust from the CPU is being sucked into the radiator on the GPU.  So, you are bringing air into your GPU radiator that is already heated by the CPU and the other components in the system.
     
    (3) You can't just read the specs on a fan, you have to look at it's P-Q curve, and how well the fan performs at what your system air resistance is.  The Y axis is the pressure for the fan, and the X axis is the CFM for the fan.  A fan produces its maximum pressure at 0 CFM of air flow, and it's lowest pressure (i.e. 0) at it's maximum air flow.  The line between maximum pressure and maximum airflow is not a linear diagonal line.  This is what separates the "men from the boys" in terms of fan performance.  It does usually scale up and down with RPM though. 
     
    ...There is a European website (Italy I think) that actually measures the P-Q cure for a fan when doing reviews.  They have a "translate" button that will give the review in English.  Their reviews are spot-on for every fan I have looked at.
     
     
    I've been around this a lot myself.  I have found that using any of the auto settings on Corsair link (i.e. quiet, balanced, performance, etc.) is pretty pointless...because as soon as the coolant temperature hits 38 C or so (don't remember the number), the fans spin up to 100%.  So, your best bet is to set these at a constant PWM percent.  As the AIO radiator is your main case air intake, you should be running these pretty high.
     
    I've played with a lot of different configurations, and have found that the AIO as exhaust air is the "best of the worst".  You don't really need push pull on the AIO radiator...unless you are trying for super silent.  An option would be:
     
    - use 2 of the 140mm Noctuas as intake
    - put 2 of the 140 mm Noctuas on the AIO radiator as push for exhaust
    - Crank up the intake fans to as loud as you can stand it
    - set the AIO fans to a fixed % (as loud as you can stand it)
    - keep the ML120 on the Hybrid radiator (I would bet that you only need 1, not 2 in push/pull...up to you)
    - set the Hybrid fans to a fixed % (as loud as you can stand it.)
     
    Now, start playing around with different fan speeds for the AIO exhaust.  You have 2 140 mm fans sucking out air...and if you don't have enough input air, you can starve the 120 mm fan and get less air flow through the AIO radiator.  If you are trying to minimize your GPU delta T, then you need to make sure you have the best airflow possible through it's radiator.
     
    I stated in an earlier thread that a 120 mm radiator for a 250 W GPU is to low.  Heck, you are running a 280 mm radiator for a 150 W CPU!
     
     
    In my setup, I am running:
     
    5820K overclock at 4.3 GHz (Corsair H110i GTX AIO...280 mm radiator)
    32 GB memory @ 2800 MHz
    Titan X Pascal (on air)
    EVGA 980 Ti Hybrid (stock fan)
     
    My intake fans are 2 ML140s (red of course - hehe).  I keep these at 75% RPM.
    I have 2 ML140s as push through the AIO radiator as exhaust on top.  I keep these at 55% RPM.
     
    I actually monitor the coolant temperature on the Corsair AIO versus the CPU temperature.  (The CPU temperature is a function of the coolant temperature and processor load at steady state.)  When I am not gaming, I run this machine 24/7 for [link=mailto:folding@home]folding@home[/link].  My typical ambient on my office is about 28 C (I have other PCs on my office).  At full load on both GPUs (both overclocked) I get:
     
    Titan X P: 77 C (49 C delta T...this thing needs an AIO!)
    980 Ti Hybrid: 52 C (24 C delta T)
    CPU AIO coolant temperature: 36 C
    CPU Temperature (while folding): 50 C (22 C delta T)
     
     
    I hope this makes sense!
    #10
    bg8780
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/07 08:04:34 (permalink)
    I just had to RMA my Hybrid cooler as the pump was failing. I was seeing 60C full load upon install. Over the next month the temps have jumped to 70C as the pump is probably completely dead. This is with the stock fan. Your temps are a bit high, pump could be failing like mine did.


     
     


    #11
    ksgnow2010
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/07 08:40:00 (permalink)
    He's at 56 C GPU, with 25 ambient...so 31 C delta T.
     
    Considering he's bringing hot air into the case through his CPU cooler...I don't think his temps are out of line.
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    walesisok
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/08 11:00:17 (permalink)
    I'm not bringing just hot air into my case, this is clear by my minor MB temp rises and the low CPU loads keeping the CPU Radiator fans RPM's low, my CPU coolant temps are 35C-37C under full load, and the Heaven tests barely touch the CPU, so the coolant stays 33C-35C. I also have a dedicated 140mm intake fan in the base of the case tied to the GPU temps for just this purpose. FYI the case is a Fractal Design Define R5.
     
    I even experimented with having the GPU radiator and fans outside the case, with a spare exhaust fan fitted in it's place to keep the case cool, no difference to idle or load temps. So my case/intake temps have no bearing on what I'm seeing.
     
    Regarding the fan specs, I looked at a number of comparisons, including The ML-120's should be outperforming the stock fan and the EK-Vardars in Jays review, especially at 1300 RPM or above. In his review he is talking absolute temps, not deltas, but based on other reviews and posts, delta's of 20C approx should be expected.
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    walesisok
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/08 11:14:44 (permalink)
    So EVGA support say my temps are a bit high for a Hybrid, but don't seem concerned saying that cards that idle in the 60C's can still only go to 70C under full load. So what exactly is the benefit of paying extra for a Hybrid card, because it sure doesn't sound like running cooler or quieter is guaranteed. I'm wondering what this FTW card would be doing under air cooling only.
    #14
    ksgnow2010
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/08 11:48:36 (permalink)
    Yup - I understand what you are saying about the AIO as input into the case.  I ran this configuration for a while.
     
    If your coolant temperatures are 35 C, then the air you are bringing into your "case" is at least 35 C...not the lower ambient.
     
    So, if we use 35 C as the input air temperature to the GPU AIO...you stated 57 C under load...that's a 22 C delta-T.  That's inline with the 24 C delta-T I see with my 980 Ti Hybrid.  (I think 35 C is a good assumption, as you stated your GPU idle temp was about 36 C...along with your motherboard idle temps.)
     
    One point I was trying to make is that since your AIO is your main input air to your system, it's best to run these at a fixed % for the fan...so you have a constant airflow.  The extra 140 mm fan can kick in extra air as the GPU gets hot...but it's a water-based system...and as I stated above, they typically take 30 minutes to reach steady state "soak" temperature and 15 or so minutes to cool down to ambient.  Said differently, the extra fan is providing more airflow after you actually need it.
     
    I hope that makes sense.
     
    The extra 140 mm fan on the bottom is a good idea.  I ran this configuration in some experiments (with my AIO as intake).  But, I actually found that increasing the speed of this fan had negative affects on the other temperatures in the system.  I don't know why...the only thing I could figure is that the airflow from the bottom fan was disrupting the input airflow from the front fans...turbulence?  Again...don't know why...found it curious, but I was able to reproduce.
     
    If you put the GPU AIO outside of the case and had the same temps...I have a hard time swallowing that.  Unless you have a an active cooling device (TEC, compressor, etc.) no cooling system can give you less than ambient.  Did you control or measure your ambient room temperature between runs?  For example, even though my house has central air, my office temperature will change by 3 to 4 C sometimes when I am just sitting there.
     
    Again - not trying to be a jerk - but you are stating results that are different than what many others have found.
    #15
    walesisok
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/08 13:41:57 (permalink)
    No worries, I don't think you're being a jerk, I can't correlate the results either which is leading me to think something is wrong/faulty.
     
    I agree with a lot of your points, especially regarding the intake through the CPU radiator when the CPU is loaded, it's why I decided on keeping those fans as low as I could and using the other intake fan to do the heavy lifting of case cooling. I know that is working because my case is always maintaining positive pressure and I can feel the cooler air ejected out of the rear vented openings.
     
    My MB temps are totally in line with other reviews and my expectations for this board inside a case, and I'm actually seeing better MB temps than hardware canucks saw on their open bench test with 21C ambient.
     
    My idle temps are taken 15-20 minutes after first turning on, and at least 30 minutes after any load testing to ensure everything is stable. My room does adjust slightly (less than 2-3F) during load testing and takes about 5-10 minutes with the AC to come back down afterwards. I have a digital thermometer sitting on top the case the measure ambient.
     
    I'm going to see if I can borrow the IR thermometer we have here in work, I'll use it to measure the case intake and exhaust temps as well as the Hybrid radiator.
    post edited by walesisok - 2016/09/08 15:13:04
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    walesisok
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/10 00:03:59 (permalink)
    Card is getting RMA'd, turns out I have the problem with the screen cutting out and fan going to 100%, didn't have this problem while benching with Heaven, but had it happen within 5 minutes of running 3dmark and randomly in Witcher 3.
    #17
    ksgnow2010
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    Re: My 1080 Hybrid temps, should I expect better temp/fan speed performance? 2016/09/10 06:14:37 (permalink)
    That's a shame.
     
    Good luck with the RMA!
    #18
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