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Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0

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wickedwayne
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2015/05/20 10:00:17 (permalink)
Got it last week and it seems to be already done for. Had 3 hardlocks while idle on desktop over the week (which could be something different though) and now this issue while gaming. I am able to reproduce it with the 3D Mark Sky Diver demo where it happens exactly at the same point in the demo every time. Rolled back to 350.12 because i thought that maybe its an issue with the new drivers but no luck, same thing happens.
 
So here's the thing. I am within the 2 weeks of my right of return with no fuss but I registered the card here already (for obvious reasons). Should I RMA over EVGA directly or not. I know EVGA has cross RMA but for that i need to pay the full price again and i don't have the money for that right now. Man this sucks so hard, got it for witcher 3 and now I can't even play. <3 
 
If anyone has an idea as to what could be problem and how to fix it besides the obvious RMA solution it would be appreciated.
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    Sajin
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/20 13:11:35 (permalink)
    #1 Open the nvidia control panel, under manage 3d settings select the global settings tab, change power management mode to prefer maximum performance, reboot pc. 

    #2 Run GPU fans at maximum speed while playing your games.
    1. Download and install MSI Afterburner.
    2. Launch afterburner and set the fan speed (%) slider all the way to max.
    3. Click apply to bring changes you've made into effect. GPU fan should get louder at this point.
    4. Test games. Leave afterburner open while testing.
    #3 Report back if you issue is resolved or not.
    #2
    wickedwayne
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/20 13:50:05 (permalink)
    First of, thanks for Your suggestions.  I tried all of that and sadly, it doesn't make a difference. I just played Witcher 3 for a bit and it worked but i had to play on a lower resolution than before. 
    Played at 4k first with 30fps cap and after 10-15 minutes, blackscreen. Now i played for about an hour+ at 1080p with vsync and no blackscreen. However running 3dMark Sky Diver Demo is a guaranteed blackscreen even with fans cranked all the way up (last blackscreen was at 58°C) . I also use a custom fan profile because i don't like my card running @70+°C all the time so i don't think its an heat issue.
     
    By searching through these forums i noticed that this seems to be a widespread problem with the 970/980 FTW cards. While i like the warranty,Step Up, and only heard good things about the support from EVGA, i am not sure if i want to get another one of these because besides this issue, they can't even be overclocked very well with the voltage lock @1.212 and all that.
     
    Do the 980 SC or Classified have the same issues? Really confused about what to do: RMA this one and maybe get another dud or sent it back and get an SC/Classified (if they are any better).
    #3
    Sajin
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/20 13:58:52 (permalink)
    Next step would be to try increasing the voltage inside afterburner, I would set it to max just for testing, make sure your fan is also running at max when doing this. If increasing the voltage doesn't help try downclocking the card on the core & memory by 105MHz to see if it helps stop the black screen. All 970/980's seems to be hit or miss on this issue. I haven't seen very many people with classifieds reporting the issue though.
    #4
    Sajin
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/20 14:04:37 (permalink)
    Forgot to ask you this... What are your full system specs?
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    wickedwayne
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/20 14:17:32 (permalink)
    Raising Voltage to max (+37) did nothing from what i can tell. Same voltages as with 0. The downclock however, worked. Could finish Sky Diver Demo without a blackscreen. Thanks. 
     
    So just a bad factory overclock. Probably wouldn't be a problem if i could just raise the voltage a bit past 1.212 though.
     
    Edit: Would a bios update for the card help here? 
    post edited by wickedwayne - 2015/05/20 14:19:52
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    Sajin
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/20 14:20:22 (permalink)
    wickedwayne
    Raising Voltage to max (+37) did nothing from what i can tell. Same voltages as with 0. The downclock however, worked. Could finish Sky Diver Demo without a blackscreen. Thanks. 
     
    So just a bad factory overclock. Probably wouldn't be a problem if i could just raise the voltage a bit past 1.212 though. 


    No problem. So what are you going to do now? RMA?
    #7
    Sajin
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/20 14:22:35 (permalink)
    A vbios update may help, contact evga and have them send you the latest vbios for your card to see if it helps resolve your issue or not.
    #8
    wickedwayne
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/20 14:23:28 (permalink)
    Sajin
    Forgot to ask you this... What are your full system specs?


    Windows 8.1 64bit
    i5 2500k @4.6ghz
    ASRock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3
    Be Quiet Straight Power 700w
    8GB Gskill DDR3 
    and of course 980 FTW
     
    Edit: Not entirely sure yet if i RMA it or not. I will contact EVGA first see if a bios update helps if not maybe i get a different one.
     
    post edited by wickedwayne - 2015/05/20 14:25:58
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    wickedwayne
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/21 04:15:02 (permalink)
    Got the bios but it didn't help. I will use it downclocked until end of next week when i have money for cross RMA and send it in then. 
    #10
    Samsander
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/21 06:47:23 (permalink)
    Same problem here with the same card GTX980 FTW. Crashes with black screen when it is under load. In games it's very random, could black screen after 5 min or after 2 hours. Depends on how heavy the game is. But if you want to replicate the issue quickly 3D Mark Sky Diver demo will crash every time.
     
    Downclocking by 100Mhz solves the black screen crashes. But this is not a real solution. Those cards should work at factory clocks.
    I'm seeing so many people with GTX980 FTW on this forum with this same problem, even after replacing with another GTX980 FTW card some keep having the same black screen crashes. And it doesn't look like this issue is happening with any other GTX980 model. This is something specific to the FTW model.
     
    Can someone from EVGA please find out what actually is causing this? Is this VRM over-voltage protection or overheating protection kicking in? Or something else?
    Someone from EVGA should really start looking in to this issue and see if this can be fixed with a BIOS update maybe? The amount of posts about this issue with this model is insane.
     
    If this is a problem of VRM's overheating could this be maybe a misaligned pad under the cooler? Are those FTW models even have some kind of cooling applied to the VRM's?
    Also I noticed that the GTX980 FTW is the only card that is using the 6+8 pin power connectors. Every other GTX980 is either 6 pin or 6+6 pin or 8+8 pin connectors.
    Maybe the 6+8 pin connection is the culprit here? Unequal power draw under load? (I'm just shooting in the dark here).
     
    Really, some of us are very techy people here and have no problem taking this thing a part and fixing it if this is fixable without RMA.
    post edited by Samsander - 2015/05/21 06:49:55
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    rludwic
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/21 10:39:40 (permalink)
    I remember way back when.... when my new rig was new last September hearing of people having issues running Skydiver back then. Me too. Black screens.. I ended up buying 3D Mark and running Firestrike Extreme for my benchmarks and all was fine. Never an issue since. As I recall Skydiver was written for mobiles or weak cards or something to that effect. I ended up with a second 980 FTW in January for SLI and still didn't have any issues other than the newer card had a much lower Asic # and my SLI benchmarks weren't as  strong as I'd hoped. More research taught me lower Asic numbered cards worked better when  water cooled and higher Asic numbered cards clocked better on air. Have you just tried running default settings running Firestrike Extreme? I'm not saying you haven't got a bum card but if it runs fine at stock clocks at default voltage, EVGA isn't going to do anything for you. They only promise that the card will run at spec out of the box. Any overclock you get is determined by the luck of the draw at the silicon lottery. I wish you well and hope you get this figured out but I personally have no gripes about my FTW's other than I can't get after market water blocks for them. Not that I need them water cooled as running games "optimized thru GForce experience, like COD AW, Battlefield 4 and Battlefield Hardline have never given me any temps on my lower, hotter running card more than mid seventies. Again, good luck my friend, but believe me my FTW's do nothing but kick butt and take names.

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    #12
    Samsander
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/21 13:14:24 (permalink)
    rludwic
    I remember way back when.... when my new rig was new last September hearing of people having issues running Skydiver back then. Me too. Black screens.. I ended up buying 3D Mark and running Firestrike Extreme for my benchmarks and all was fine. Never an issue since. As I recall Skydiver was written for mobiles or weak cards or something to that effect. I ended up with a second 980 FTW in January for SLI and still didn't have any issues other than the newer card had a much lower Asic # and my SLI benchmarks weren't as  strong as I'd hoped. More research taught me lower Asic numbered cards worked better when  water cooled and higher Asic numbered cards clocked better on air. Have you just tried running default settings running Firestrike Extreme? I'm not saying you haven't got a bum card but if it runs fine at stock clocks at default voltage, EVGA isn't going to do anything for you. They only promise that the card will run at spec out of the box. Any overclock you get is determined by the luck of the draw at the silicon lottery. I wish you well and hope you get this figured out but I personally have no gripes about my FTW's other than I can't get after market water blocks for them. Not that I need them water cooled as running games "optimized thru GForce experience, like COD AW, Battlefield 4 and Battlefield Hardline have never given me any temps on my lower, hotter running card more than mid seventies. Again, good luck my friend, but believe me my FTW's do nothing but kick butt and take names.




    That's the whole point. It doesn't run fine at stock factory clocks at default voltage. You can't even increase the voltage on the FTW if you wanted to. It is locked at 1.2v.
    Firestrike just takes longer to crash. Games like Crysis, Project Cars, The Witcher 3... actually all the GPU heavy games can crash with black screen after 5 min or after 2 hours. It's random because not all games max out the GPU all the time.
     
    Is there really nothing to do here except downclocking by 100Mhz and just deal with it or doing RMA and playing this GPU lottery again and again and again?
    #13
    flexy123
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/21 14:44:27 (permalink)
    Running full fan speed doesn't help?
     
    If you're brave, open up the card and re-seat the heatsink (after a new thermal paste job on the GPU of course). Not because of the GPU temps per-se, but because of the likelihood that POSSIBLY the cooler doesn't sit properly on the VRMs which (in my opinion) is the reason for the black screens. Otherwise, blacks screens at stock are of course reason for an RMA.
     
    >>
    Is there really nothing to do here except downclocking by 100Mhz and just deal with it or doing RMA and playing this GPU lottery again and again and again?
    >>
     
    Yes there might be sort-of a workaround which I used on my GTX 970. The first thing is, there DEFINITELY is a relationship between fan-speed/temps and black screens. This cannot be denied. Therefore run fan as high as you can tolerate.
     
    The actual workaround is to mod your bios to use LESS voltage than you max. voltage available. (For example, my 970 does 1506 at 1.187V and doesn't require more. My max would be 1.212V. Since less voltage causes less power draw/less heat..it also reduces black screens.) This is what I observed here.Whether Afterburner with a GTX 980 would allow do DECREASE voltage a few notches without BIOS mod I don't know, but I would give it a shot.
     
    >>
    because i don't like my card running @70+°C all the time so i don't think its an heat issue.
    >>
    Well not a GPU heat issue for sure, but of course your VRMs might be overheating.
     
    After a TON of research this is what I am currently believing in regards to that black screen problem.
     
     
    >>
    Now i played for about an hour+ at 1080p with vsync and no blackscreen
    >>
     
    Yes because Vsync usually means less load. But as soon as the cards get close to (as I observed) 190W-200W power draw they black screen. This is why less voltage can help since it will keep overall power draw lower. (And no, less V doesn't mean less overclock, if you're lucky you can get to 1500 with only 1.187V and no darned black screens). AND FOR STOCK speeds, even less voltage may be required!
    post edited by flexy123 - 2015/05/21 14:51:49
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    Samsander
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/21 23:02:20 (permalink)
    Running fans at 100% even with open case. Card was cool to the touch and still crashed.
    This might be not a cooling issue unless the VRM's are not cooled at all under that cooler.
    Could be a Voltage or power draw issue.

    Things I tried to tweak in bios.
    Dropping the voltage as low as 1.150v. & 1.187v. Didn't work. Still black screened.

    Increasing the maximum power draw. Thought that the card didn't have enough power and black screened. Nope that's not it. Still black screened with increased power limit.

    Things I didn't try.
    Decreasing the total power limit. As you said. Maybe if it draws more then 190-200w the VRM's cant handle it.

    Also didn't try re-seating the cooler. Since I didn't look inside yet I'm not sure how the VRM's are cooled under the cooler. If they are cooled at all. Thermal pads I guess.
    Actually I wouldn't be surprised if there is nothing cooling them.
    post edited by Samsander - 2015/05/21 23:04:38
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    wickedwayne
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/22 07:33:34 (permalink)
    Well it could be related to the VRM's due to not getting cooled properly. And all about the power it draws and heat it generates therefore could also be spot on. The thing is we shouldn't have to guess what the problem is in the first place because as far as i am concerned, it shouldn't happen at all. For the price we are paying we should be able to expect a product working as advertised and not have to troubleshoot, reseat heatsinks, lower power consumption or mess with the bios to get a stable card at all for that matter.
     
    I know this can happen to any vendor, so i am not calling out EVGA specifically. I remember having to mess with the bios on my GTX680 Lightning from MSI to have it stable. But seeing how much reports there are about this issue specifically with either SC or FTW cards makes me think there is something wrong by design.
     
    I already made my decision to run it downclocked until next week (so far its working) and do a cross RMA then. If the next card gives me the same problem i will RMA again and again until i have one that works.
     
    Also, if todays rumors about the 980Ti releasing side by side with the Fiji next month at Computex are true, i will step up as soon as it is available. So here's hoping for that.
     
      
    post edited by wickedwayne - 2015/05/22 07:35:50
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    Samsander
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/23 05:33:54 (permalink)
    I tried decreasing the power limit in BIOS so that the total power draw would not exceed 196W. The card did not back screen, but this is only because it started to downclock itself due to low power. As soon as I increased the total power draw by another 5% it maintained the boost clock and crashed with black screen.
     
    Here is another example that RMAing for those GTX980 FTW cards will probably get you another one that will black screen again.
    forums.evga.com/FindPost/2338856
     
    Would someone from EVGA please respond. We need a BIOS fix for this ASAP.
    If it's a design issue and cannot be fixed then just say so and stop replacing those FTW cards with another defective FTW card.
    post edited by Samsander - 2015/05/23 05:39:11
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    wickedwayne
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/23 06:17:59 (permalink)
    Might happen, who knows. Its not like i have a better choice tbh. Its either RMA at EVGA or RMA at the shop i got it from by now. At least i can cross RMA with EVGA while i would have no working pc if i would RMA through the shop. So long as i can step up to a 980ti sometime next month i don't mind anymore at this point. Hopefully it will not have any problems like this or a ridiculous low voltage block like this card.
     
     
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    Samsander
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/31 08:39:43 (permalink)
    ok guys, here is a follow up. I didn't solve the black screen issue. So no good news there.
    But here are my findings after taking off the GTX980 FTW cooler and front plate.
    Sorry I forgot to take pictures so I will be using a GTX980 reference picture. The PCB layout is more or less the same.
     
    Here is the comparison of the VRM & RAM cooling on the GTX980 Reference and the GTX980 FTW card.

    In the picture above marked in red are the components that are being cooled with thermal pads by the front plate behind the ACX cooler on the GTX980 FTW.
    In green are the components that do not have any thermal pads and the front plate is not covering this area at all.
     
    Those components however are being cooled on the GTX980 reference card.
    Here is a picture of the GTX980 reference cooler that shows thermal pads cooling the components on this area.

     
    So... looks like part of the VRM module is not being properly cooled. What do you think? Design flaw?
     
    P.S.
    Since the cooler was already off I reapplied some MX-4. The original application was overkill as usual and the thermal paste even went over the frame.
    While this didn't solve the black screen crashes here are the temperatures of before and after.
     
    Before:
    Idle: 38c / Load: 81c
     
    After:
    Idle: 35c / Load: 77c
     
     
    Edit:
    Here are some pictures of the GTX980 FTW that shows the location of the thermal pads and the area left exposed by the front plate. (Not my pictures, but this is indeed the FTW).

     

    post edited by Samsander - 2015/05/31 08:56:12
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    wickedwayne
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/05/31 10:33:03 (permalink)
    Very informative post Samsander, thanks.
     
    That seems indeed very weird. Why would they just not cool them at all? Shouldn't have been too hard to redesign the front plate to prevent this kind of issue, right? Or am i missing something here?
     
    If it's a design flaw how could it have been overlooked in the first place? I doubt we will ever get an answer but I would like an official response anyway if possible. 
     
    That's the second thing about this card that doesn't make any sense to me. First the hardware voltage lock way below reference and now this. I really regret getting this card.
     
    Edit: Honestly, i think its worth opening a separate thread about Your findings but its up to You.
    Edit2: It would be interesting to know if the SC front plate is also not cooling those VRM's at all. As far as i remember SC's are using the reference design for the board, right?
    post edited by wickedwayne - 2015/05/31 10:51:19
    #20
    Samsander
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/06/01 06:01:49 (permalink)
    wickedwayne
    Honestly, i think its worth opening a separate thread about Your findings but its up to You.
     



    Naah, I think we have enough posts about GTX980 FTW troubles as is.
    Whoever needs to see this probably seen it already. Is something going to be done about this? Probably not.
    #21
    Stephenk291
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/06/01 08:04:48 (permalink)
    Sounds somewhat like my issue I had with my 980 FTW. I gave up after getting 3 bad cards and then decided to get a 980SC instead. It seems something is wrong with that card because out of all the 980's is the most that has the most threads about it in terms of issues.

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    #22
    wickedwayne
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/06/01 08:07:52 (permalink)
    Step Up is now available for the 980ti, so i guess thats that. Hopefully it doesn't take too long. 
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    Antizm
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/06/01 19:04:55 (permalink)
    wickedwayne
    Step Up is now available for the 980ti, so i guess thats that. Hopefully it doesn't take too long. 




    Doing the same thing as you, I just want to get rid of the 980 FTW. I have some of the same issues as you with my card. I had my system lockup multiple times on desktop. Swapped out my 980 with my old 760. Not a single issue since.
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    Legendari
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    Re: Monitor Signal Lost (Black Screen) issue with 980FTW ACX 2.0 2015/06/01 22:57:36 (permalink)
    This seems to be a common issue (from what I've been reading on these forums).  Also in the same boat, looking at the step-up as a way to get rid of my 980 FTW.  Had a 680 Classified for a long time and loved it... never had a single problem.


    #25
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