texinga
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/16 06:44:07
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Yeah, for me this thread is mainly just airing feelings about the current state of FAH. Most people here no matter the concerns or desires are still Folding, Crunching, or doing some form of DC donation. I say its all good and follow the path that suits your interest. We'll all meet in the middle one day and jointly declare victory!
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/16 09:23:06
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jkefalas
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/16 10:03:23
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This seems excellent - as long as PG finds it's worth their time...
Also, maybe time to find an additional cheaper 2G card for memory considerations? Again, as long as Kelpler optimization happens in the first place.
Now my antennae are up on this. With confirmation of Kepler enhancements available, I may get a bit surly if I don't see changes soon, lol.
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rklapp
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/17 08:23:47
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kendrak
Folding has always been about staying nimble to a point.
Back when cheap socket A systems came out up against expensive P4 systems, everyone grabbed a bunch of those. Then dual/quad core chips came out and so did SMP. Then GPU folding came out and I had a 3x 9800GX2 rig... the thing was a beast. Then -bigadv in it's various forms.
It comes down to a major shift every couple years. You just have to be ready to go where folding wants to go.
There has always been "unhappiness" when a shift happens. However we adapt, some times quickly, sometimes not.
In EVGA's case, you are somewhat rooted in GPU, and makes the change a bit harder. I will say the 4Ps that have been popping up over here are evidence of change happening here.
I know it's been out for years but I'm still waiting for Frys or Microcenter to have 4p specials on their ads. Then I'll know the wind has changed toward the 4p systems.
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7 i m
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/17 14:18:43
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texinga
mflanaga
To be fair.. Pande Group never told people to go out and buy Kepler cards because they had a core ready to go.
Have to comment that while your are "technically" correct, it does not excuse PG from communicating to their donor-base as to what they are doing with a given hardware product. This is especially important of them to do when they are depending upon donors to go out and buy the very equipment that they depend upon for the science. I've been in Mainframe computing all my life. I can absolutely say that PGs practices would be a going-out-of-business strategy in the business world. I think talking openly and a lot more frequently about the types of hardware that will work is of paramount importance in this kind of donor environment.
PG is basically begging for the very problems they get because donors are left in the dark so much. Of course we could just decide not to donate to FAH and put the same equipment to use solving other diseases where they can already take advantage of (new) technologies (i.e. Kepler). AB made an excellent observation when he paralleled how Keplers are doing mighty things in the Crunching sciences vs the dismal results we are seeing from FAH.
You say left in the dark, and yet the FAH FAQs and Install Guides list what hardware IS currently supported (not Kepler). So it's unfortunate that people do not avail themselves of the resources available, like this Folding Forum Sticky from a month ago explaining the Kepler situation: http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=22458 Or where the folding Blog addresses Kepler support back in April. Or how the Beta Testing section of the Folding forum was unhidden last year so everyone can read and follow the testing of Kepler, which explains how you even know to upgrade to the v2.25 version of the fahcore mentioned in other threads in this forum. Crawl out from under your EVGA rock once in a while. As for other DC projects getting better performance, a simple enough explanation is that their data is much easier to parallelize. 1 + 1 = 2 is easy math to crunch. Have you see the insane math it takes to 3d model a protein? You demanded immediate support for the kepler hardware, it it WAS available. You could actually fold on Kepler from day one. It wasn't and still isn't optimized, but people should be thankful they could fold on Kepler when that hardware wasn't officially unsupported. Buying hardware ahead of the officially supported list is ALWAYS a risk. Even considering NV only released CUDA 5 with Kepler optimizations YESTERDAY.  Get some perspective...
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rklapp
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/17 15:45:11
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7 i m
Get some perspective...
I think what's going on is that we go on the FF and see you's guy's attitudes, so they're expressing their attitude in the EF, and now you're expressing your attitude. To sum up, there's a lot of 'tuding going around.
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/17 16:02:24
(permalink)
7 i m
texinga
mflanaga
To be fair.. Pande Group never told people to go out and buy Kepler cards because they had a core ready to go.
Have to comment that while your are "technically" correct, it does not excuse PG from communicating to their donor-base as to what they are doing with a given hardware product. This is especially important of them to do when they are depending upon donors to go out and buy the very equipment that they depend upon for the science. I've been in Mainframe computing all my life. I can absolutely say that PGs practices would be a going-out-of-business strategy in the business world. I think talking openly and a lot more frequently about the types of hardware that will work is of paramount importance in this kind of donor environment.
PG is basically begging for the very problems they get because donors are left in the dark so much. Of course we could just decide not to donate to FAH and put the same equipment to use solving other diseases where they can already take advantage of (new) technologies (i.e. Kepler). AB made an excellent observation when he paralleled how Keplers are doing mighty things in the Crunching sciences vs the dismal results we are seeing from FAH.
You say left in the dark, and yet the FAH FAQs and Install Guides list what hardware IS currently supported (not Kepler). So it's unfortunate that people do not avail themselves of the resources available, like this Folding Forum Sticky from a month ago explaining the Kepler situation: http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=22458 Or where the folding Blog addresses Kepler support back in April. Or how the Beta Testing section of the Folding forum was unhidden last year so everyone can read and follow the testing of Kepler, which explains how you even know to upgrade to the v2.25 version of the fahcore mentioned in other threads in this forum.
Crawl out from under your EVGA rock once in a while.
As for other DC projects getting better performance, a simple enough explanation is that their data is much easier to parallelize. 1 + 1 = 2 is easy math to crunch. Have you see the insane math it takes to 3d model a protein?
You demanded immediate support for the kepler hardware, it it WAS available. You could actually fold on Kepler from day one. It wasn't and still isn't optimized, but people should be thankful they could fold on Kepler when that hardware wasn't officially unsupported. Buying hardware ahead of the officially supported list is ALWAYS a risk. Even considering NV only released CUDA 5 with Kepler optimizations YESTERDAY.
Get some perspective...
We should be thankful? To use your own words...Get some perspective. The longer they chose not to optimize the use of this newer popular technology, the longer they motivate people to point their hardware in different directions. It's pretty clear that PG wants to focus their development resources on CPU/Multi CPU wu's at the current time. That's fine, that is their choice. Just as it is the donor choice to move their GPU to another project that better utilizes the power.
My computer finds cures for diseases and searches for aliens when I'm not gaming...what does yours do?
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texinga
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/17 16:40:04
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7im is one of the most disliked people from the FAH Forum and I'm certainly not the first person to make that observation. Just this month, our bros over at [H] were talking about this very thing and 7im was the centerpiece of their disdain. Even here, typically he blows in, drops a bomb and then blows out. When 7im said "get some perspective", I really had to laugh. The first thing that came to mind was that he is the epitome of a person who has no perspective, especially regarding his unique ability to be rude.
7im, I have plenty of perspective and will never take direction from someone like you who is known by many for a hateful perspective. Take your one-sided advice and go peddle it somewhere else, because your opinion holds no value for me and you are literally wasting your words. The FAH forum would be ever so much more a pleasant place to visit if you were not there. Unfortunately, they allow you to run amuck in that Forum and wield rude comments as if they were something to be proud of. You are a sad person that puffs yourself up by unleashing rudeness and condescension on others (often).
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TheWolf
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/17 17:19:30
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+1 wish I could have said it that well.  texinga
7im is one of the most disliked people from the FAH Forum and I'm certainly not the first person to make that observation. Just this month, our bros over at [H] were talking about this very thing and 7im was the centerpiece of their disdain. Even here, typically he blows in, drops a bomb and then blows out. When 7im said "get some perspective", I really had to laugh. The first thing that came to mind was that he is the epitome of a person who has no perspective, especially regarding his unique ability to be rude.
7im, I have plenty of perspective and will never take direction from someone like you who is known by many for a hateful perspective. Take your one-sided advice and go peddle it somewhere else, because your opinion holds no value for me and you are literally wasting your words. The FAH forum would be ever so much more a pleasant place to visit if you were not there. Unfortunately, they allow you to run amuck in that Forum and wield rude comments as if they were something to be proud of. You are a sad person that puffs yourself up by unleashing rudeness and condescension on others (often).
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/17 18:03:16
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7 i m
You say left in the dark, and yet the FAH FAQs and Install Guides list what hardware IS currently supported (not Kepler). So it's unfortunate that people do not avail themselves of the resources available, like this Folding Forum Sticky from a month ago explaining the Kepler situation: http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=22458
yes it is correct it does not say it supports it. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist - or the page is not in error (web pages updates are not done everyday). there could be a working core or test core that may not be on the original page that may not be officially support as stable. So you won't post it as supporting it, just to keep it in testing phase
Or where the folding Blog addresses Kepler support back in April.
if you gonna tell us that support is coming or is in current testing then it negates the official web pages saying it does not support it at all
Or how the Beta Testing section of the Folding forum was unhidden last year so everyone can read and follow the testing of Kepler, which explains how you even know to upgrade to the v2.25 version of the fahcore mentioned in other threads in this forum.
opening the beta forums This was done for the lack of transparency. The goal is to keep people informed and not make people feel left out. People felt that they were getting the short end of the stick by keeping it private. Secrecy leads to curiosity,fear,anger,want for being left out. They want a say on development and policy, which is why the DAB was created this isn't to say I find a real problem with the beta team and lack of communication. Since making it public the beta team has been quieter than normal (considering there is testing). as noted on the beta team forum it seems making it public has made people fearful of posting for releasing information that should be kept for private testing. There is the conundrum. You make it public yet the rules that govern beta team members bar it from making things public. Make up your mind...either make it all public or keep it all private. Just say it can be all be made public in the beta forums but not anywhere else. if regular people want to do the work to find it there kudos to them. And then tell members to post everything in the beta test forums. if you don't like that then go back to closing the beta test forums again.
Crawl out from under your EVGA rock once in a while.
I suggest you get out once in awhile and see the real world. you come to a forum - "NOT YOUR OWN" - you are not a fellow bro here and then lambast someone for an opinion? we are only expressing views and hopefully Vijay sees it and realizes that PR and poilicy is still lacking we are only acting in the best interest talking about it here and maybe some ideas or things can be looked at. if not we get things off our chest that we perceive as going wrong at stanford or at the FF it better than getting censored at FF for bringing up such a topic - because it would be removed because it not a server, work,client or GUI issue but people griping what you have done is acted like a censor here(or a MOD), trying to quell dissention or dissatisfaction with stanford and FF (not to mention PM'ing me about beta rules and telling me to put a sock in it without your facts straight)
As for other DC projects getting better performance, a simple enough explanation is that their data is much easier to parallelize. 1 + 1 = 2 is easy math to crunch. Have you see the insane math it takes to 3d model a protein?
excuse me?? Folding harder than 3D physics and gravitational patterns? ie...calculus in 3d it seems to me you don't understand how much more math is involved with the way the universe works rather than a simple molecule or protein folding (which is only a small part of the universe) so don't say FAH has a harder time than others...just that some may be slightly easier and for some it will be slightly harder than for FAH
You demanded immediate support for the kepler hardware, it it WAS available. You could actually fold on Kepler from day one. It wasn't and still isn't optimized, but people should be thankful they could fold on Kepler when that hardware wasn't officially unsupported. Buying hardware ahead of the officially supported list is ALWAYS a risk. Even considering NV only released CUDA 5 with Kepler optimizations YESTERDAY.
It should have been. if you are working closely with Nvidia then it should be possible to get a temporary core up and running around release time fermi didn't take this long Many members here have stated the delay as too long and said maybe stanford should work more closely in the future with Nvidia you know letting people have a say isn't all that bad. what is needed is better PR and involvement from Vijay and staff. ...ie transparency
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2012/10/17 21:18:28
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staypuft
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/17 19:11:48
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texinga
You are a ... person that puffs yourself up ...
Hey, he stole my gig 
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rklapp
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/17 20:29:50
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Anyone get the feeling that 7im is 13 years old, or... 
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/18 15:28:21
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texinga
7im is one of the most disliked people from the FAH Forum and I'm certainly not the first person to make that observation. Just this month, our bros over at [H] were talking about this very thing and 7im was the centerpiece of their disdain. Even here, typically he blows in, drops a bomb and then blows out. When 7im said "get some perspective", I really had to laugh. The first thing that came to mind was that he is the epitome of a person who has no perspective, especially regarding his unique ability to be rude.
7im, I have plenty of perspective and will never take direction from someone like you who is known by many for a hateful perspective. Take your one-sided advice and go peddle it somewhere else, because your opinion holds no value for me and you are literally wasting your words. The FAH forum would be ever so much more a pleasant place to visit if you were not there. Unfortunately, they allow you to run amuck in that Forum and wield rude comments as if they were something to be proud of. You are a sad person that puffs yourself up by unleashing rudeness and condescension on others (often).
after reading some of 7im other posts earlier today on the FF i found this?  i was looking for a reason to switch to crunching, and i think its this jerk that may just make it happen....
post edited by wrinvert - 2012/10/18 15:35:39
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7 i m
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/18 16:18:27
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texinga
7im, I have plenty of perspective and will never take direction from someone like you who is known by many for a hateful perspective. Take your one-sided advice and go peddle it somewhere else, because your opinion holds no value for me and you are literally wasting your words. The FAH forum would be ever so much more a pleasant place to visit if you were not there. Unfortunately, they allow you to run amuck in that Forum and wield rude comments as if they were something to be proud of. You are a sad person that puffs yourself up by unleashing rudeness and condescension on others (often).
That's so funny coming from a perpetual Pande Group basher. Ya, I'm the one sided rude one...
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CHammock
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/18 16:41:15
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7 i m
texinga
7im, I have plenty of perspective and will never take direction from someone like you who is known by many for a hateful perspective. Take your one-sided advice and go peddle it somewhere else, because your opinion holds no value for me and you are literally wasting your words. The FAH forum would be ever so much more a pleasant place to visit if you were not there. Unfortunately, they allow you to run amuck in that Forum and wield rude comments as if they were something to be proud of. You are a sad person that puffs yourself up by unleashing rudeness and condescension on others (often).
That's so funny coming from a perpetual Pande Group basher. Ya, I'm the one sided rude one...
You go girl. Just keep pushing people away from PG and their folding project.
Currently under construction
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jkefalas
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/18 17:19:30
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I love it! Bring on the haters! They can't help but troll here, lol. Rock on EVGAFTW!
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/18 19:57:58
(permalink)
CHammock
7 i m
texinga
7im, I have plenty of perspective and will never take direction from someone like you who is known by many for a hateful perspective. Take your one-sided advice and go peddle it somewhere else, because your opinion holds no value for me and you are literally wasting your words. The FAH forum would be ever so much more a pleasant place to visit if you were not there. Unfortunately, they allow you to run amuck in that Forum and wield rude comments as if they were something to be proud of. You are a sad person that puffs yourself up by unleashing rudeness and condescension on others (often).
That's so funny coming from a perpetual Pande Group basher. Ya, I'm the one sided rude one...
You go girl. Just keep pushing people away from PG and their folding project.
My computer finds cures for diseases and searches for aliens when I'm not gaming...what does yours do?
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Punchy
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/18 20:20:28
(permalink)
You know, I actually agree with 7im on some topics such as the problems with the QRB. Like him, I sometimes speak my mind and offend people. In this case, though, I think he's missed the boat, just as the Pande Group has, in basically saying you should check the folding "supported list" before buying hardware. PG has totally lost sight of what was the original intent of Folding@Home - taking advantage of hardware with spare cycles - in this case, people buying GPUs for gaming, who would then fold with it, if it were easy and fully supported. What PG now expects is for people to buy hardware specifically for folding. They have manipulated quite a few people into buying 4P's, but at the same time lost focus on the 1000 or 10000 times as many people with relatively fast 1-socket and/or GPU systems that could actually compute more.
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/18 20:26:16
(permalink)
Punchy
You know, I actually agree with 7im on some topics such as the problems with the QRB. Like him, I sometimes speak my mind and offend people. In this case, though, I think he's missed the boat, just as the Pande Group has, in basically saying you should check the folding "supported list" before buying hardware. PG has totally lost sight of what was the original intent of Folding@Home - taking advantage of hardware with spare cycles - in this case, people buying GPUs for gaming, who would then fold with it, if it were easy and fully supported. What PG now expects is for people to buy hardware specifically for folding. They have manipulated quite a few people into buying 4P's, but at the same time lost focus on the 1000 or 10000 times as many people with relatively fast 1-socket and/or GPU systems that could actually compute more.
Well put. Punchy often takes what I'm thinking and makes is sound better than I ever could...
My computer finds cures for diseases and searches for aliens when I'm not gaming...what does yours do?
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/18 21:31:44
(permalink)
Punchy
You know, I actually agree with 7im on some topics such as the problems with the QRB. Like him, I sometimes speak my mind and offend people. In this case, though, I think he's missed the boat, just as the Pande Group has, in basically saying you should check the folding "supported list" before buying hardware. PG has totally lost sight of what was the original intent of Folding@Home - taking advantage of hardware with spare cycles - in this case, people buying GPUs for gaming, who would then fold with it, if it were easy and fully supported. What PG now expects is for people to buy hardware specifically for folding. They have manipulated quite a few people into buying 4P's, but at the same time lost focus on the 1000 or 10000 times as many people with relatively fast 1-socket and/or GPU systems that could actually compute more.
this is the point for me, i refuse to spend money on a 4P system to earn some points that only mean something to some very silly people. what i can get behind is helping the science with the extra time and power my system has while sitting idle. what i find funny is my 560ti on my oldest of the 3 systems i can fold on can produce as many points as any of my 4 680's, to me that means there is science being lost by not taking advantage of the newer GPU hardware. @ 7im this in not the propper thread or sub forum for you to rant in. if you would like to rant, please join the "beta team" section and post your concern there.
post edited by wrinvert - 2012/10/18 21:35:03
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/18 23:36:59
(permalink)
Punchy
You know, I actually agree with 7im on some topics such as the problems with the QRB. Like him, I sometimes speak my mind and offend people. In this case, though, I think he's missed the boat, just as the Pande Group has, in basically saying you should check the folding "supported list" before buying hardware. PG has totally lost sight of what was the original intent of Folding@Home - taking advantage of hardware with spare cycles - in this case, people buying GPUs for gaming, who would then fold with it, if it were easy and fully supported. What PG now expects is for people to buy hardware specifically for folding. They have manipulated quite a few people into buying 4P's, but at the same time lost focus on the 1000 or 10000 times as many people with relatively fast 1-socket and/or GPU systems that could actually compute more.
+1
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_Nite_
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/19 00:32:46
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kerryd
Punchy
You know, I actually agree with 7im on some topics such as the problems with the QRB. Like him, I sometimes speak my mind and offend people. In this case, though, I think he's missed the boat, just as the Pande Group has, in basically saying you should check the folding "supported list" before buying hardware. PG has totally lost sight of what was the original intent of Folding@Home - taking advantage of hardware with spare cycles - in this case, people buying GPUs for gaming, who would then fold with it, if it were easy and fully supported. What PG now expects is for people to buy hardware specifically for folding. They have manipulated quite a few people into buying 4P's, but at the same time lost focus on the 1000 or 10000 times as many people with relatively fast 1-socket and/or GPU systems that could actually compute more.
+1
+2
Gaming Rig: Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.2Ghz - EVGA Z68 SLI - 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 - 64GB M4 SSD+1TB HD+2TB SSHD - 8GB GTX 1070 SC Black Edition - Asus Xonar DX - EVGA Supernova 750w G2 - Antec 302 - 24" Asus VG248QE
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TheWolf
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/19 01:15:51
(permalink)
_Nite_
kerryd
Punchy
You know, I actually agree with 7im on some topics such as the problems with the QRB. Like him, I sometimes speak my mind and offend people. In this case, though, I think he's missed the boat, just as the Pande Group has, in basically saying you should check the folding "supported list" before buying hardware. PG has totally lost sight of what was the original intent of Folding@Home - taking advantage of hardware with spare cycles - in this case, people buying GPUs for gaming, who would then fold with it, if it were easy and fully supported. What PG now expects is for people to buy hardware specifically for folding. They have manipulated quite a few people into buying 4P's, but at the same time lost focus on the 1000 or 10000 times as many people with relatively fast 1-socket and/or GPU systems that could actually compute more.
+1
+2
+3
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texinga
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/19 05:11:34
(permalink)
7 i m
texinga
7im, I have plenty of perspective and will never take direction from someone like you who is known by many for a hateful perspective. Take your one-sided advice and go peddle it somewhere else, because your opinion holds no value for me and you are literally wasting your words. The FAH forum would be ever so much more a pleasant place to visit if you were not there. Unfortunately, they allow you to run amuck in that Forum and wield rude comments as if they were something to be proud of. You are a sad person that puffs yourself up by unleashing rudeness and condescension on others (often).
That's so funny coming from a perpetual Pande Group basher. Ya, I'm the one sided rude one...
Unfortunately and sadly, your behavior 7im condemns itself. Your behavior is so disliked that people from multiple Folding Teams (think I recall at least 5) put up a petition to have you removed as a Mod in the FAH Forum. There are a litany of posts in many Folding Teams from people that comment on your poor treatment of others. I think you are "throwing stones at glass houses" and refuse to realize how truly and regularly offensive you can get. If I am a "Pande Group basher", then you would be the person with "Pande Group blinders" on. If you don't like the concerns that myself and a great many other Folders have to say about PG, then ignore it. You're on a personal mission to defend PG at all costs and you frequently verbally assault anyone that won't fall in line with your thinking. How many people, in how many Folding Teams have to comment about the ill effects that you have upon Folding donors for you to admit that you have a problem? Have you ever stopped to consider how many people you may have driven out of Folding? Your are a divider of people and seem to be compelled to do it. Fighting with me won't do anything more than proving the problems that many people have with you. Just stay in the FAH forum and refrain from dropping bombs in other Folding Team's forums so that people aren't compelled to ask you to leave so much.
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nathan_P
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/19 14:09:42
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texinga
7 i m
texinga
7im, I have plenty of perspective and will never take direction from someone like you who is known by many for a hateful perspective. Take your one-sided advice and go peddle it somewhere else, because your opinion holds no value for me and you are literally wasting your words. The FAH forum would be ever so much more a pleasant place to visit if you were not there. Unfortunately, they allow you to run amuck in that Forum and wield rude comments as if they were something to be proud of. You are a sad person that puffs yourself up by unleashing rudeness and condescension on others (often).
That's so funny coming from a perpetual Pande Group basher. Ya, I'm the one sided rude one...
Unfortunately and sadly, your behavior 7im condemns itself. Your behavior is so disliked that people from multiple Folding Teams (think I recall at least 5) put up a petition to have you removed as a Mod in the FAH Forum. There are a litany of posts in many Folding Teams from people that comment on your poor treatment of others. I think you are "throwing stones at glass houses" and refuse to realize how truly and regularly offensive you can get.
If I am a "Pande Group basher", then you would be the person with "Pande Group blinders" on. If you don't like the concerns that myself and a great many other Folders have to say about PG, then ignore it. You're on a personal mission to defend PG at all costs and you frequently verbally assault anyone that won't fall in line with your thinking. How many people, in how many Folding Teams have to comment about the ill effects that you have upon Folding donors for you to admit that you have a problem? Have you ever stopped to consider how many people you may have driven out of Folding? Your are a divider of people and seem to be compelled to do it. Fighting with me won't do anything more than proving the problems that many people have with you. Just stay in the FAH forum and refrain from dropping bombs in other Folding Team's forums so that people aren't compelled to ask you to leave so much.
Extremely well put, i've seen his comments often put people off. Its got to the point now where there are only a few of us from [H] that will knowingly participate in the offical support forum, and i'm guessing that its much the same here are EVGA. It is a true pity that 1 person puts off 95% of the top 2 team's members from visiting and helping out in the offical forum, even more so since you can't say visit such and such a thread in a team forum. Maybe it partly answer's the current question of the decline in participation in f@h
post edited by nathan_P - 2012/10/19 14:14:31
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/19 15:32:37
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Well now that we got that out of the way. Let us go back to our way of communicating and get back to the value so many of you brought to the thread...
And for the record. It is the "Community" that was just demonstrated that gets me excited about any project. Dang glad to see the "Forum Name" lines evaporate and honest feedback being presented...
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7 i m
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/19 15:44:50
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Punchy
You know, I actually agree with 7im on some topics such as the problems with the QRB. Like him, I sometimes speak my mind and offend people. In this case, though, I think he's missed the boat, just as the Pande Group has, in basically saying you should check the folding "supported list" before buying hardware. PG has totally lost sight of what was the original intent of Folding@Home - taking advantage of hardware with spare cycles - in this case, people buying GPUs for gaming, who would then fold with it, if it were easy and fully supported. What PG now expects is for people to buy hardware specifically for folding. They have manipulated quite a few people into buying 4P's, but at the same time lost focus on the 1000 or 10000 times as many people with relatively fast 1-socket and/or GPU systems that could actually compute more.
I sort of agree with you Punchy, but I consider GPUs a different boat. I didn't say you *must* check the supported GPU's list *before* buying hardware (but you could if you wanted, so you are not completely "in the dark" like some would have you think...) And no one said PG expects you to buy hardware specifically for folding, not even me. Another made up fallacy. So, after you do purchase a Kepler card for gaming, you can then check the supported hardware list. But you shouldn't be so disappointed when Kepler isn't listed there. It isn't offically supported yet, and we all know hardware support comes slow to FAH. Yet this seems like a long thread of disappointments, even though you can fold on keplers without official support. So this looks like a PG haters club meeting to me, not a discussion to help GPU folding move forward. And while it is popular around here to falsely claim all the FAH development is going in to BigAdv (which makes losing to t[H]em not hurt so bad), people seem to miss the facts, that only 3 new BA projects have come out in the last year, while dozens of new projects have come out for both GPUs and SMP. No new BA fahcores, but both GPU and SMP a4 cores have been updated. And BA participation was strictly curtailed not that long ago, raising the bar to 16 cores (or more), which seems like undevelopment, not development. So other than high points that were set long ago, there really is NO push towards BA, in fact just the opposite. For example, Pande Group is fully intent on adding a GPU QRB. This came too late to save your 1st place position, but retaking it later will be all the sweeter. ;) And as I mentioned, PG has released several revisions on the fahcore_15 trying to improve GPU folding. Trying to get Kepler optimizations in to folding as fast as they are capable of doing, and without breaking the Fermi support. I just checked with a friend with a Kepler, and the v2.25 fahcore that works on Kepler cards gets installed by default now. No need to grab it out of the beta folder. Yes, very slow progress, but progress none the less. And while the rest of your team has never see it, I have battled against the current policy of telling people to join the beta team on the Folding Forum to get Kepler help, to or simply wait for public support. Huge waste of resources. The last thing you want to tell a kid with a shiny new toy is, "Sorry, you can't play with it yet." Maybe later." And if you're not all little boys with toys, I don't know who is. :lol: And as you've said, we're definitely in the same boat about QRB changes. GPU is a different boat. I hope you can see that.
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/19 16:06:18
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7 i m
And no one said PG expects you to buy hardware specifically for folding, not even me. Another made up fallacy.
I think you are missing the boat with reality. Any project that is asking for volunteers has to set guidelines for the majority of users. Otherwise they will loose users or need grants to build the Equipment needed to complete the WU's... At this time I have not seen any Project tell folks what to buy. I have seen them offer how much PPD they can expect for equipment all the way to bonus potentials in PPD with higher end equipment. The perception may never reach reality in this case. However it has been outlined over and over. Many other projects have VERY quickly adapted their projects to maximize CUDA 4.2. F@H has simply not been able to even offer a supported script not requiring a hack. AKA.. They are still in BETA. Using your logic, folks should never buy anything until F@H has supporting script/software supporting the equipment. Only that is backwards. Otherwise how exactly did they figure out the 4P needs and bonus schedule. And exactly what "Real world" daily home user, that happens to be the "Majority" of the computer power producing for PG, needs a 4P in their home? Exactly. A % far smaller than those needing a GPU and or a QUAD core CPU to do their daily tasks and or gaming choices. If you are looking to start another endless battle of worthless banter that you consider to be fact, please move on and do not waste our time. If you want to deal in facts then by all means, have fun. Our forums have had enough of the "Bulling" tactics to last a few lifetimes. This thread is about finding ways for us to become even more successful. It is not about walls of meaningless/disruptive text.
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7 i m
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/19 16:27:46
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That's not at all what I said. And I've said that twice now.
People can buy whatever they want, whenever they want, for whatever reason they want, folding, gaming, BOINC, home heater, whatever. But they are only in the dark if they chose to be.
PG takes the same view.
Not sure how you got exactly the opposite idea out of what I said...
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TheWolf
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Re:Keplers and F@H... A point of view as of 10/12/2012
2012/10/19 18:40:24
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7 i m
And while it is popular around here to falsely claim all the FAH development is going in to BigAdv (which makes losing to t[H]em not hurt so bad), people seem to miss the facts, that only 3 new BA projects have come out in the last year, while dozens of new projects have come out for both GPUs and SMP. No new BA fahcores, but both GPU and SMP a4 cores have been updated. And BA participation was strictly curtailed not that long ago, raising the bar to 16 cores (or more), which seems like undevelopment, not development. So other than high points that were set long ago, there really is NO push towards BA, in fact just the opposite.
What a crock of bull. lol CPU & GPU project have taken a turn for the worse as far as points go. Many projects now only get at best 2/3 the points they were & take long, plus extra heat for poor GPU folders. Yes bad calculations in points "dozens of new projects" that need fixing, but can't post at FaH forum on the subject your post gets deleted. We fold these work units every day, so you can't run that line of bull by this group of people. Best keep that on the FaH forum where some there might believe your crock of bullcrap.
post edited by TheWolf - 2012/10/19 19:32:36
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