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Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks

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jose1980
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/07 13:56:21 (permalink)
donta1979

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I gave up on water cooling when I etched my DD copper blocks in 2006. Galvanic corrosion occurred and I decided water cooling was way too problematic. I've been high performance air cooling ever since. Water cooling makes your rig into a high maintenance woman...and high maintenance women annoy me.

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#61
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/08 05:05:25 (permalink)
Not all blocks will fail. EK has been Nickel plating blocks for quite some time, I don't there is any reason to get your block's re-plated unless you have an issue.
 
http://www.xtremesystems....74310&postcount=24
 
Read that, and the posts after it. I'm not an expert on material science, but the explanation the guy gives seems pretty believable. If the issue is because of impurities in the copper, its very likely that EK\Eddy had nothing to do with the issues, and that his copper supplier gave him impure copper. I don't think Eddy would buy impure copper to save money, and then not have a clue why the plating was going bad.

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Brad_Hawthorne
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/08 05:16:58 (permalink)
Rudster816

Not all blocks will fail. EK has been Nickel plating blocks for quite some time, I don't there is any reason to get your block's re-plated unless you have an issue.

http://www.xtremesystems....74310&postcount=24

Read that, and the posts after it. I'm not an expert on material science, but the explanation the guy gives seems pretty believable. If the issue is because of impurities in the copper, its very likely that EK\Eddy had nothing to do with the issues, and that his copper supplier gave him impure copper. I don't think Eddy would buy impure copper to save money, and then not have a clue why the plating was going bad.

 
In manufacturing it's standard practice to do random sample testing of stock material it ensure consistent quality. It seems like QC over at EK is lacking in their production workflow. It's not intent here that is the problem it's their testing and quality control protocol at issue. I'm just glad EK doesn't work in aerospace manufacturing or planes might be falling out of the sky with shoddy materials.
post edited by Brad_Hawthorne - 2011/06/08 05:18:14
#63
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/08 15:09:28 (permalink)
Hey fellas, been reading this thread for a while now. just today, i realized that my EK 760 classified mb block is nickel+acetal. I have been freaking out since then don't know what to do. I have been running the loop for a year now. Should i check? (that would require me to drain the entire loop and then take it off the mb). So far i have not had temp issues. I am also running a Ek Supreme HF all copper + Gold cpu block. 
 
What should i do now?
 
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/08 23:16:22 (permalink)
Any word on if this effects the gold plating on the full copper edition?
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 00:58:03 (permalink)
Halfdead14

Any word on if this effects the gold plating on the full copper edition?

Didnt realise they had gold plating :O

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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 08:06:39 (permalink)
Umm so far i have not heard of any gold platting issue. Just the nickel platted ones that are corroding. 

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Brad_Hawthorne
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 09:18:13 (permalink)
shafat

Umm so far i have not heard of any gold platting issue. Just the nickel platted ones that are corroding. 

 
Makes me curious if they are done by the same place?
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 10:12:54 (permalink)
I am guessing its just a bad batch of nickel/copper used by EK. Then again, i bought my block a year ago and i might still get corrosion. Who knows. I guess we just have to wait and see. 
 

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#69
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 11:14:29 (permalink)
I wont have my system back in hand until after the RMA window. Home on leave then I report to my next duty station on July 29th... Will take time for the shipment of my household goods.
Guess I'll just tear it down and inspect it when I get it back and if I have to see how much to get it replated better than what they did at EK.
If the price to replate exceeds the price of new blocks though I'll just buy new ones.
post edited by loveha - 2011/06/09 11:42:02

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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 11:23:07 (permalink)
loveha

I wont have my system back in hand until after the RMA window. Home on leave then I report to my next duty station on July 29th... Will take time for the shipment of my household goods.
Guess I'll just tear it down and inspect it when I get it back and if I have to see how much to get it repated better than what they did at EK.

+1. way to take initiative man!!! Keep us posted.

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#71
skyre
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 12:01:25 (permalink)
Luckily, I decided to go with all copper + acetal GPU blocks and all copper CPU block.

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#72
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 12:11:55 (permalink)
I would file complaints with the BBB if they try to blame the customer. See how the like a F report on that site.
 
 


 
#73
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 12:21:53 (permalink)

Hey Loveha what about chrome plating? Any thoughts on that? I googled and theres a few places around me that could do it. 
  
Not sure how to strip the nickel off of my blocks if I was going to chrome plate though. 

 

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#74
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 13:35:54 (permalink)
holy shoot, i just have my EK HF supreme full nickel/EK classifield full block installed yesterday...come on, what should i do! !!!this is freaking me out...should i file RMA NOW? they were brand new few days ago
post edited by kiel^cx - 2011/06/09 13:50:40



#75
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 13:39:43 (permalink)
Currently most UK e-tailers have taken the products off (or have legitimately run out of stock) one way or another no new stock is being sent out, I presume EK is trying to sort out the issue before they send out more stock.

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kiel^cx
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 13:58:23 (permalink)
so now what, i haven't run anything into my EK HF full nickel plate yet, what can i use besides distilled water+silver!!!



#77
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/09 14:01:04 (permalink)
This
 
kram36
I've always use PrimoChill PC Ice Clear and never had any corrosive issue. Just do not ever use the dye bomb junk, it will stick to everything in your loop and gunk it up.

http://www.jab-tech.com/P...Ice-Clear-pr-3539.html

#78
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/10 07:07:17 (permalink)
After reading this post I threw in the trash a brand new EK-Supreme HF Block. Fotunatley it was never instaled in the loop. Ill keep my Swiftech.
 
I have a second system running with EK water blocks, Full board plus Moffset. IM very concerned what will happen to the Black Ice SR1 360 Rads, Uber 655 Pumps, Evga 580 Hydros.
 
Im more than a little ________OFF

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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/10 09:53:23 (permalink)
Goggle Eye

After reading this post I threw in the trash a brand new EK-Supreme HF Block. Fotunatley it was never instaled in the loop. Ill keep my Swiftech.

I have a second system running with EK water blocks, Full board plus Moffset. IM very concerned what will happen to the Black Ice SR1 360 Rads, Uber 655 Pumps, Evga 580 Hydros.

Im more than a little ________OFF


Don't do that!! i'll take it!!

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#80
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/10 16:42:08 (permalink)
Goggle Eye

After reading this post I threw in the trash a brand new EK-Supreme HF Block. Fotunatley it was never instaled in the loop. Ill keep my Swiftech.

I have a second system running with EK water blocks, Full board plus Moffset. IM very concerned what will happen to the Black Ice SR1 360 Rads, Uber 655 Pumps, Evga 580 Hydros.

Im more than a little ________OFF

If it wasn't Nickel plated you just threw away a perfectly good block.

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#81
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/10 17:43:07 (permalink)
So why is it taking EK so long to respond?  They better offer a money back or trade in program because this just sucks.

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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/10 17:56:40 (permalink)
Alright, before this spirals out of control, read-up on what is on the EK site: 
http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=83&cntnt01origid=15&cntnt01returnid=17
they sent several customer case studies to a verified testing firm to have the blocks evaluated. There's a 30+ page PDF to read at that link at your leisure, which I've gone ahead and done so already.
 
The bottom line is that "flaking" of nickel is a gross exaggeration; and all those individuals over at Red Raider (who have been the most "vocal" about this issue) need to get their accusations straight. Flaking would imply that the nickel was improperly adhered to the copper. In every single laboratory test there was no evidence of "flaking" or the outright separation of nickel. What did happen was that the nickel corroded away and left the underlying copper exposed--under very particular cirumstances. They also took a brand-new block and based on the findings, added a very common biocide agent to the mix, copper sulfate, which is also found in a lot of pre-mixed colored dyes. Almost immediately, sections of low-flow, such as the edges of a block, started to corrode. From this investigation it is very clear that the corrosion most directly involves the additives and the type of coolant used. Their recommendation:
 
Corrosion can be avoided by the use of a low-conducting, anti-corrosion liquid (which,in principle, is also distilled or deionized water). It is recommended to exchange the liquidwith a fresh one after a period of time to remove the possibly dissolved ions from the closedwater-cooling system. The introduction of additional metals into the system (silver, etc.) orthe use of ionic algaecides (copper sulfate, etc.) even in minor concentrations can trigger thecorrosion processes. Avoid the use of acidic substances, especially when using copper metal.
 
So there you have it. Keep your nickel plated EK block, it's perfectly fine. Limit your coolant choices to those that don't have ionic algaecides in them; and toss your silver kill coils. Stick to the basics: distilled water and a gentle biocide, like PT_nuke-PHN.
 
Thanks for listening.
 
P.S. EK has also announced that ALL customers with a nickel-plated product will receive 24 months of protection from corrosion.
However, If customer insists on buying EK nickel block, we offer a customer full 24 month warranty on material, manufacturing and corrosion.

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#83
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/10 18:37:12 (permalink)
Just wanted to thank everyone for the great info, and to let you know it was this thread which brought me here. I am glad to know that my block will be unaffected since it wasnt of the plated variety. 

http://forums.evga.com/tm.aspx?m=1059916

-Eva
post edited by DarkAynjel - 2011/06/10 18:38:51

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#84
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/11 00:04:47 (permalink)
tpb7463


P.S. EK has also announced that ALL customers with a nickel-plated product will receive 24 months of protection from corrosion.
However, If customer insists on buying EK nickel block, we offer a customer full 24 month warranty on material, manufacturing and corrosion.

 
Links please


#85
Brad_Hawthorne
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/11 02:11:12 (permalink)
tpb7463

Alright, before this spirals out of control, read-up on what is on the EK site: 
http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=83&cntnt01origid=15&cntnt01returnid=17
they sent several customer case studies to a verified testing firm to have the blocks evaluated. There's a 30+ page PDF to read at that link at your leisure, which I've gone ahead and done so already.

The bottom line is that "flaking" of nickel is a gross exaggeration; and all those individuals over at Red Raider (who have been the most "vocal" about this issue) need to get their accusations straight. Flaking would imply that the nickel was improperly adhered to the copper. In every single laboratory test there was no evidence of "flaking" or the outright separation of nickel. What did happen was that the nickel corroded away and left the underlying copper exposed--under very particular cirumstances. They also took a brand-new block and based on the findings, added a very common biocide agent to the mix, copper sulfate, which is also found in a lot of pre-mixed colored dyes. Almost immediately, sections of low-flow, such as the edges of a block, started to corrode. From this investigation it is very clear that the corrosion most directly involves the additives and the type of coolant used. Their recommendation:

Corrosion can be avoided by the use of a low-conducting, anti-corrosion liquid (which,in principle, is also distilled or deionized water). It is recommended to exchange the liquidwith a fresh one after a period of time to remove the possibly dissolved ions from the closedwater-cooling system. The introduction of additional metals into the system (silver, etc.) orthe use of ionic algaecides (copper sulfate, etc.) even in minor concentrations can trigger thecorrosion processes. Avoid the use of acidic substances, especially when using copper metal.

So there you have it. Keep your nickel plated EK block, it's perfectly fine. Limit your coolant choices to those that don't have ionic algaecides in them; and toss your silver kill coils. Stick to the basics: distilled water and a gentle biocide, like PT_nuke-PHN.

Thanks for listening.

P.S. EK has also announced that ALL customers with a nickel-plated product will receive 24 months of protection from corrosion.
However, If customer insists on buying EK nickel block, we offer a customer full 24 month warranty on material, manufacturing and corrosion.

 
One thing both you and EK fail to account for is that when and what batch of blocks have been the problem ones? Their plating process could of had variation in it over time leading to substandard quality control on some plating batches. None of the testing EK did even remotely accounts for that. If you pick out a few blocks and test them yet somehow X months ago a few batches were done improperly, it renders their testing invalid and nothing but a cover up of the issue. Do they test random samples of their blocks over time? My thought is they don't because they don't do proper random sample testing on anything they manufacture.
 
Everything they've done so far only points toward a reactionary policy toward quality control. Where is their preexisting production line quality control protocols and random sample stock and part testing mentioned anywhere in this? If they had anything like that in place, they wouldn't of had to farm out a special study to be done. Instead they would of had a persistent history of material testing documentation on random sampled raw stock and parts through the history of everything they manufacture. As a manufacturing engineer, I find their answer to any of this to be totally substandard. We're talking amateur hour stuff here. This is the most basics of basics when it comes to professional manufacturing of products -- you do random sample material testing of all products in a consistent manner for the history of a product and document that testing in such a way that you can pull up that information at any time it's required. If variation shows up, address it with refinement of the manufacturing process until the variation is within tolerable levels. Where is their spec sheet for the specific plating process they use? Where is the data trail showing how much variation in the plating process occurred over the history of the manufacturing process? Any variation and problems should of been caught in-house, not out in the wild. That all points out to me that EK doesn't have a fundamental understanding of material science, so they have to farm out the knowledge to a third party for review only after a problem is found by consumers.
 
It seems like to me that they assume no liability in their manufacturing process at all and are pushing it all on the consumer to be at issue with what they are running in their loop.
post edited by Brad_Hawthorne - 2011/06/11 03:24:29
#86
tpb7463
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/11 08:09:55 (permalink)
They are claiming the RMA on their website, first news link.
 
http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=85&cntnt01origid=15&cntnt01returnid=17
 
RMA it through the normal channels,
 
http://ekwaterblocks.com/support/
 
Brad_Hawthorne

It seems like to me that they assume no liability in their manufacturing process at all and are pushing it all on the consumer to be at issue with what they are running in their loop.


 
Even though they are pulling the product line? (Check their news feed) Yes I agree that they were missing the necessary quality control measures, but they are stopping production. They're not issuing  a disclaimer, such as in the report for "proper use"; and leaving it up to the consumer to figure it out. They used outside research to isolate the underlying cause of corrosion in a closed set of examples. And by virtue of finding fault, they admit that this is a serious issue and allowing anyone with corrosion to RMA their block. I find fault in not getting this resolved sooner or by not having measures in place to avoid such problems. I don't find anything wrong with trying to correct the mistake. 
post edited by tpb7463 - 2011/06/11 08:16:45

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#87
Sleinous
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/11 10:10:50 (permalink)
They pulled production? That would explain why UK retailers have none in stock, possible recall? In any case i'm glad I waited before ordering my blocks.

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Rgallant
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/11 11:18:30 (permalink)
tpb7463

Alright, before this spirals out of control, read-up on what is on the EK site: 
http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=83&cntnt01origid=15&cntnt01returnid=17
they sent several customer case studies to a verified testing firm to have the blocks evaluated. There's a 30+ page PDF to read at that link at your leisure, which I've gone ahead and done so already.

The bottom line is that "flaking" of nickel is a gross exaggeration; and all those individuals over at Red Raider (who have been the most "vocal" about this issue) need to get their accusations straight. Flaking would imply that the nickel was improperly adhered to the copper. In every single laboratory test there was no evidence of "flaking" or the outright separation of nickel. What did happen was that the nickel corroded away and left the underlying copper exposed--under very particular cirumstances. They also took a brand-new block and based on the findings, added a very common biocide agent to the mix, copper sulfate, which is also found in a lot of pre-mixed colored dyes. Almost immediately, sections of low-flow, such as the edges of a block, started to corrode. From this investigation it is very clear that the corrosion most directly involves the additives and the type of coolant used. Their recommendation:

Corrosion can be avoided by the use of a low-conducting, anti-corrosion liquid (which,in principle, is also distilled or deionized water). It is recommended to exchange the liquidwith a fresh one after a period of time to remove the possibly dissolved ions from the closedwater-cooling system. The introduction of additional metals into the system (silver, etc.) orthe use of ionic algaecides (copper sulfate, etc.) even in minor concentrations can trigger thecorrosion processes. Avoid the use of acidic substances, especially when using copper metal.

So there you have it. Keep your nickel plated EK block, it's perfectly fine. Limit your coolant choices to those that don't have ionic algaecides in them; and toss your silver kill coils. Stick to the basics: distilled water and a gentle biocide, like PT_nuke-PHN.

Thanks for listening.

P.S. EK has also announced that ALL customers with a nickel-plated product will receive 24 months of protection from corrosion.
However, If customer insists on buying EK nickel block, we offer a customer full 24 month warranty on material, manufacturing and corrosion.

 
-you forgot a few things I need to  toss TO RUN EK Ni BLOCK"S TO HAVE RMA PROTECTION IN THE FUTURE AS IT STANDS NOW
-as I run distilled and silver so I shall toss: re can't get the silver out once in the loop right ?
-my 16' of tube
- 4x QDC's
-xt block
-2 655 pumps and tops.
-res
- 4 x rads
-mb block
-2 x gpu block's
-any silver fittings I might have in the loop or all fittings as they were touched by silver in the water
 
-I think you mean well bud , but I don't think you under stand some things -  or I don't
so
-can you show me how the silver coils puts silver into the loop ? if it dissolves in water it would disappear right silver fittings would be down to the brass base in no time. and you wouldn't have 800 -2000 year old silver coins pulled out of a sea water would you ?
-silver works by treating the water as it passes over it not adding it's self TO the water , now the lab could have used a silver solution which does.
and even if it did add a bit to the water it still needed a hole in the nickel to short the copper\ nickel. silver will not eat the nickel like a pac man down to the copper lol.
"distilled water and a gentle biocide, like PT_nuke-PHN." NOPE can't use that per EK.
 
-why did EK not send the flaked RMA block's they had in hand over the last 6 months to the lab also- if you can except the pic's and statements from people that had their block's replaced . they went back to EK what did they do with them ?
-they should of had these testing reports all ready in hand 3-6 months ago if they were on top of things.
I have been stray out of this crap on most forums but I'm getting pissed not getting any usable information
like
-% of  gpu blocks that flake. -if it's low might roll the dice and do nothing
-long term damage if you have no issues after 1-6 months -will they flake @8-24 ?

post edited by Rgallant - 2011/06/11 11:21:32

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#89
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Re:Issue with Nickel Plated EK Blocks 2011/06/16 14:42:43 (permalink)
OMG is this a s__t you can rma you currated blocks and get new ones back which currate again. I use Aquacomputer Double Protection Ultra which is made for copper and nickel systems and it gives up no Electricity. I have my block 8 months and i have now seen some green bubbles of my CPU block ---> its currusion. so what should this be, to give the customers the same blocks like before. And for the shipping kosts you can choose a credit for the EKWB shop (in case you want to keep the nickel plates. I don´t want the copper it don´t looks nice)

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