Interesting Observation

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taniquetil
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2010/01/11 08:03:05 (permalink)
Since I was really scrambling to get to 1 million points I noticed something interesting (and slightly disappointing).

On the road to 1 Million, gaining places was really slow work. I would gain very few places per day and sometimes even drop back.

Now that I've hit a million, I've jumped 30 places on the team in the last 2 days.

Which is, really disappointing, I guess, since it shows most people just folding to 1 million then dropping out. That doesn't make much sense either since the power bill you rack up will probably exceed $100.

Just sayin', if EVGA wants to run a similar promo next year, they should extend it to well past 1 million points. The data is pretty clear on this.




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    Foldmiester
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 08:39:08 (permalink)
    taniquetil

    Since I was really scrambling to get to 1 million points I noticed something interesting (and slightly disappointing).

    On the road to 1 Million, gaining places was really slow work. I would gain very few places per day and sometimes even drop back.

    Now that I've hit a million, I've jumped 30 places on the team in the last 2 days.

    Which is, really disappointing, I guess, since it shows most people just folding to 1 million then dropping out. That doesn't make much sense either since the power bill you rack up will probably exceed $100.

    Just sayin', if EVGA wants to run a similar promo next year, they should extend it to well past 1 million points. The data is pretty clear on this.


    I agree with you on this, since it appears with new hardware 1 mil can be attained fairly quick.

     
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    #2
    Afterburner
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 08:57:33 (permalink)
    Good points.. Now let me toss you another one.... Not everyone that is folding....
    • Cares about the $100. They do it for other reasons. I have read of a few being form outside the US and cannot use the $$.
    • Not everyone goes to the new tech right away. So this will also be a part of the balancing act they do.
    #3
    theGryphon
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 09:46:23 (permalink)
    This is to be expected I guess by EVGA and by pretty much everyone who understands human psychology... Those people who stopped at 1M well know that the power bill is not worth it but they still did what they did: humans act irrationally :)
    Whatever EVGA does with the promotion, the outcome won't change. Add another $100 for 2M, then you'll see piles of people at 2M, lol... Decrease the awards, you'll see less people doing that but that'd also mean less folding points for EVGA.

    But a little different scheme may hep increase folding points and get rid of piling up at certain points. Consider a continuous but diminishing awards scheme:

    Total Annual Award in EVGA Bucks = Base 10 Logarithm of (Annual Points / 200000) * 100

    This way,

    1) Nobody less than 200K points would get any EVGA Bucks
    2) You wouldn't see any pile-ups at any level
    3) Would encourage people to fold more and more even though with less and less incentive
    4) Wouldn't cost EVGA more than it does with the current scheme

    Let me give you some example points / awards according to above formula:

    200K -> zero
    210K -> $2.12
    250K -> $9.69
    300K -> $17.61
    400K -> $30.10
    500K -> $39.79
    1M    -> $69.90
    2M    -> $100.00
    3M    -> $117.61
    5M    -> $139.79
    10M  -> $169.90
    20M  -> $200.00

    What do you think, EVGA and guys?

    #4
    fairchildbrad
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 10:17:32 (permalink)
    That would keep people folding!  I wish I had the hardware to hit 20M annually lol.  Personally I think it is a great idea.


     

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    wb488641
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 10:32:14 (permalink)
    HAHA, I wouldn't care either way!! or I am going to hit 20 mills anyway ( unless MAJOR hardware Failure )

    But that formula is not a bad idea. Just it is going to hard for some people to hit 20 mills in a year, not alone 10 mills

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    #6
    theGryphon
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 10:40:09 (permalink)
    20M will never be an easy task but this way those who reach that point will receive a bit more reward.
    My point is to make the rewarding continuous. If anyone thinks the above rewards are too few, then just change the multiplier from 100 to 150 for example:

    200K -> zero
    210K -> $3.18
    250K -> $14.54
    300K -> $26.41
    400K -> $45.15
    500K -> $59.69
    1M    -> $104.85
    2M    -> $150.00
    3M    -> $176.41
    5M    -> $209.69
    10M  -> $254.85
    20M  -> $300.00

    Edit: oops, bad math... lol...


    post edited by theGryphon - 2010/01/11 10:42:52
    #7
    Barbarossa
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 10:56:50 (permalink)
    I like your idea of splitting it up more, but keep the mass of bucks towards the lower end. These are the ones who need them more than somebody who´s able to fold 20 million a year.
     So keep the rewards fairly low after the 2 or 5 million mark and regard them "just" as bonus in recognition for keeping going

     
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    #8
    theGryphon
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 11:10:12 (permalink)
    Reward actually is getting lower and lower per points. That's the nature and purpose of logarithm function there.
    The reward for 20M is still larger but hey, it is 20 million points for crying out loud!!!

    #9
    KMoore4318
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 11:21:14 (permalink)
    I will make 4 mill by year end with 3 mechines ( started a little late, and anticipate 6 million Next year, would take almost 2 additional years to make 20 million, I am going to fold anyway, but dont think the anual goal should be set above 5 million, or that it should go up 5 times the presant goal in 1 year, perhaps double it every year for 5 years, would be OK, that way you would be up to 31 million in 5 years, by doing a 1,2,4,8,16 Million gaol, this would also give people a incentive, and chance, to invest in newer faster equipment.
    just my 2 cents ( or  20,000 PPD )
    post edited by KMoore4318 - 2010/01/11 22:19:10

      
         
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    Barbarossa
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 11:22:16 (permalink)
    Oh yeah, now I see it
    So do you want all uf us to request our bucks on Feb 15th 2011?
    Poor Shane

    on the original topic: it´s sad , but that´s the way it is. I wonder how many of those suddenly spring back to life on Feb 16th when the new year starts

     
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    #11
    theGryphon
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 11:35:38 (permalink)
    Barbarossa

    Oh yeah, now I see it
    So do you want all uf us to request our bucks on Feb 15th 2011?
    Poor Shane


    Why not? I don't think $200 or even $300 EVGA Bucks is too much to reward to a person who contributes 20 freakin' million points. There are only 10 people with 20M or more points in total now. How many people can reach that point you think? Maybe 15 next year... EVGA is already awarding $100 to tons of people with the current scheme which doesn't encourage people to fold more...
    I think the first table above is a better one, with the multiplier at 100, and $200 for 20M. Btw, it's open ended so, it'd be $300 for 200 (two hundred) million points in a year...

    I really think it's a good idea that EVGA should consider if they intend to encourage folding and reward people to that end...
    I don't know what Shane or Kyle would think though, as they are the ones who backed up the whole "folding@evga" idea in the first place, right?


    #12
    stevedawg
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 13:21:37 (permalink)
    Personally I applaud theGryphon, it makes sense yet is not out of line.  Pushes people to fold more, and in reality most people will never be able to put out more than 5 or so Million a year right now.  While this might change with fermi, if it carries a huge price tag many people wont be able to upgrade for a while.  It also rewards those people who have invested alot of money into folding with greater returns and since they are dedicating more time and money to folding, it really only make sense.

    I would also like to point out many people stop folding not only for reasons listed above ( monetary, people cant afford new tech, the electric bill) but also bc folding is wear and tear on the machine also.  As someone who cannot afford to buy the newest stuff all the time, i need to make my hardware last.  And while folding is for a good cause, the reason to keep folding stops for many when there is no return (ie EVGA bucks) to be gained from the situation.
    post edited by stevedawg - 2010/01/11 13:22:47


     
    #13
    theGryphon
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 15:16:46 (permalink)
    ^ Exactly! If there are continuous (even though diminishing) returns, more people would be compelled to FOLD ON!

    #14
    ablearcher
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 16:02:41 (permalink)
    Honestly?

    I think if one gets to 1Milpoints, the path is pretty well set.

    Yes, will continue folding for a long, long time.

    No, I barely eeked it out in my spare time.

    Some people fold to only 1mil points, because they started folding, and somehow feel obligated to continue.

    So if a higher end point is set (not too far, otherwise people will just lose way), people will feel obligated to fold until then. This, for long term folding, needs to be a habit-enducing process. If people merely fold in their spare time, then this folding team is going to just survive as long as the promotion continues.

    If there is a high, nice goal to reach (doesn't have to be eVGA Bucks - could be mobos, gfx cards - the stuff that makes eVGA folders giggle inside), that wasn't too far, but good enough to convince people to change their view on folding (not just a spare time activity, but something to dedicate hardware to), then we can create a lasting team.

    eVGA FTW!
    #15
    heydabop
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 16:05:56 (permalink)
    Just to add to your initial observation. http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/user_list.php?s=&t=111065&p=5 The biggest solid chunk seems to be from ranks 437-456 (at post time). Like the one guy who got 1,000,009 points and then quit. 
    And the rank gaining is interesting too, I've gone up 49 ranks this week, and 36 of those were within the last 24 hours.

    Please stop deleting WU's. 

    My Current Folding@Home Status (via HFM.net) 

    #16
    FlipBack
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 16:17:40 (permalink)
    I like the logarithm concept, but with people like FahMan, EVGA would be out a lot of money...lol



    #17
    94_xj
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 16:27:01 (permalink)
    I've dropped out of folding pretty hard, sure the EVGA bucks was a nice incentive and my goal was to get enough to buy more equipment to fold with...but my GX2 skyrockets to 110C if I try and fold on it and my PS3 has a bad hard drive so it'll complete a WU or two and then be locked for a few days.

    Being broke sucks.

    #18
    mmillion
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 16:44:05 (permalink)
    Well it is an interesting idea it helps all, but benefits the heavy hitters the most.   

    Barbarossa pointed out the guy with 20 million points doesn't need any equipment, they already have lots.  Doesn't sound fair, give it to the little guy (admirable sentiment). 

    Well that may be true for Barbarossa, Lefty, wb, thaita, and some others.  But our biggest hitters ever - strudinox, barnettworks, totes6, and clamtoas were folding on someone elses equipment.  They were mostly young IT types with new familys a lot of expenses and not a lot of extra money for pc equipment.  So nice hardware might have been a very, very big deal for them.

    obtw FahMan might not be in need of hardware at home, but he does appear to be using the corporate equipment, so who knows.

    I know I would be happy to donate my any of my windfall of evga bucks for contest prizes next year, if evga can arrange for our stuff to be sent to a contest or runner up and someone is willing to run the contests. 
    post edited by mmillion - 2010/01/11 16:51:40

     
     


    #19
    ablearcher
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 16:44:32 (permalink)
    @94_xj
     
    For my 9800gx2, I folded on the second core, and gamed on the first.

    I disabled SLI, and used the DVI-VGA adaptor plugged into my monitor's secondary input (you'll know why this is much easier than dummy plugs, once you try it).

    The 9800GX2 has a top exhaust, so I had a fan directly pulling air out of that area (well... at an angle), so my case temps never exceded some 30C - and I have a rather cramped SG02-F.

    I cranked the fan to 75% (past 76%, and it would start this "buzzing" noise, and since I have OCD, I like the fan speed to be in multiples of 5), and I never got above 80C, even with dual-core folding.
     
    *edit* I should note, I used the other "top" fan location on this case to put a low-CFM (20cfm?) fan to push cool air into the 9800GX2's intake.
    post edited by ablearcher - 2010/01/11 16:46:06

    eVGA FTW!
    #20
    tomslick
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 18:14:33 (permalink)
    I don't care why people fold, I only care why I fold.  If they fold for EVGA Bucks, then they fold, and that is all that matters.
    If EVGA doesn't have a problem with the incentive program then why should we.  It's getting a lot of people folding that would not have folded before,  it's brought some customers to EVGA, some hardware to some people and some points to the EVGA folding at home team.


    #21
    theGryphon
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/11 20:06:55 (permalink)
    tomslick

    I don't care why people fold, I only care why I fold.  If they fold for EVGA Bucks, then they fold, and that is all that matters.
    If EVGA doesn't have a problem with the incentive program then why should we.  It's getting a lot of people folding that would not have folded before,  it's brought some customers to EVGA, some hardware to some people and some points to the EVGA folding at home team.


    Well... you're right... I guess  I got carried away... It's just me though, I owned it as if it was my problem (as if there was a problem in the first place) and offered a "solution", lol...


    #22
    icebergs
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/12 00:24:42 (permalink)
    EVGA is the only one out there that has some sort of "reward" for folding other than our good will, and innate competitiveness.  There is the good feeling of helping, maybe, and there is also the whole sub-culture on this topic.  Wow.

    Of course they have a commercial interest and hope to swing as much business their way as possible WHILE doing a good thing, but it still has to make business sense.

    So I applaud them for being the first and only to offer some tangible reward.  If only Stanford could hand out a penny per point there would be huge major epic changes, but it is a donation, and not even deductible.  Good going EVGA, thanks for doing this.

    #23
    shansmi
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/12 03:23:49 (permalink)
    I started out with only a 1MIL goal.  Some just fold based on season and others just are not comfortable leaving the machines running 24x7.  I just caught the bug and figured what the heck since my machines stay on 24x7 anyway.  If I have a 30A circuit in my study, I would have 2 more rigs going.  So far with only 5 GPUs folding, I have not seen my electric bill increase very much.

     
     
    Disclaimer: My posts are personal opinions, not endorsed by EVGA.
    #24
    DutchForce
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/12 05:10:38 (permalink)
    Don't forget there are also folders from other teams, who temporary switch to EVGA for the $100 and are able to buy more/better folding-hardware.
     
    I like your idea Gryphon, but you could set a max ... say 10 million?
     
    I also like MMillion's idea to be able to donate the bucks for contest prizes, because that would be a nice way (and currently only way in Europe)  to use my evga bucks. 



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    #25
    theGryphon
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/12 05:18:01 (permalink)
    DutchForce
     
    I like your idea Gryphon, but you could set a max ... say 10 million?
     


    Thanks! How about $200 @ 20M, to make it a "round" ending?


    #26
    wb488641
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/12 05:33:42 (permalink)
    theGryphon

    Thanks! How about $200 @ 20M, to make it a "round" ending?


    I like that idea!!! $200 for 20M But I doubt Evga would increased the prize amount. lol



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    #27
    69vettester
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/12 07:47:51 (permalink)
    Umm Lets See, the problem is ?? Oh , There really isnt a problem So Lets Talk algorithms that will predict ways to force non productive members to get productive without being offensive. I got it!! Sneak up on them and put the boot in their rear end before they know what happened, yeah thats it .. all in favor say aye



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    #28
    AcesofDeath7
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/12 15:33:34 (permalink)
    Aye!




    #29
    taniquetil
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    Re:Interesting Observation 2010/01/12 16:33:21 (permalink)
    Aye!




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